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Subwoofer Mod (replacement)

390K views 2K replies 264 participants last post by  Hullerman 
#1 ·
Wrestled with whether to tag on or start a thread, opted to have a standalone for search purposes. This thread ties in with @Pressurized thread of tweeter Mod and a couple other threads (Alpine Sub replacement and Infinity 6032si soundbar upgrade) ALL of which ties together to create the combined upgrade effect.
Can't speak for everyone but, several who have been participating in this venture are to be credited with a rather dramatic overall upgrade effect for about the cost of a set of rubber mats. IF you were to do the Tweeter Mod, Soundbar speaker and the Sub - You would have about $100 invested, have a completely "stock appearance" system, retain all steering wheel control functionality and IMO have a system that would rival systems I have done/heard costing well over $1000.
The resulting system will be musical, accurate and something that you will be more likely to actually listen to, I have buddies saying,"Hey I want to hear this on your system".
Anyway, going to use some descriptive terms to try and describe "sound" include some opinion and some quantifiable info as well, Pics etc. Any questions, I will do my best to answer.
Thank you to Pressurized and SteedGun for their involvement and leading the way.
Ok, So....
-Tweeter Upgrade: See Pressurize's thread. Totally wakes up the system HUGE improvement.
  • Sound Bar speaker Up-Grade to Infinity 6032si. Gets rid of the "Dead" useless soundbar sound. Big improvement.
  • Subwoofer: What's wrong? It is FAT, Bloated, slow, muffled, over-present low frequency mush with very little Impact. It actually distorts if pushed or atenuated and hides detail that is now being revealed by the tweeter and soundbar upgrade.
Challenges: Finding a low profile, efficient, 2 ohm/8"/DVC Sub to replace it with without needing to add an amplifier.
SteedGun found and installed a sub by Rockford Fosgate and his comments can be found in the Alpine Sub Replacement thread and after reading his comments and doing my own Mod - I say his observations are dead on accurate.

Here is the sub I got and installed on Friday evening. It cost me about $70 (lists for a lot more than that) it has all the things we need and comes in at an impressive 86db sensitivity.



Stock Sub and the Pioneer



Install is very very easy especially with the Metra 72-6514 plug n' play adapter that also works for your SoundBar speakers. Your screww holes (all of them) line up Perfectly and you use your Alpine cover with NO modification whatsoever Alpine is top center and Pioneer reads straight when you look through the holes.
Install was a breeze.

Testing the Subs:


As pictured, I used the sterophile test CD as well as a CD I burned with a 50hz non-atenuated test tone and tested output with the pic'd SPL meter.
I tested BOTH Subs with Flat Bass/Treble settings on the HU, even fade, even channel and played the volume at 20. Using the 50hz test tone assured me that the sound tested was coming from the sub and not the rest of the system, I closed the Jeep up and sat Yoga style in the cargo area.
Results: Our Factory Sub played at 94db under repeated tests consistently measured at 1m.
The Pioneer played at 92db under the same testing procedure.
As far as Quality of the sound and subjective impressions..... I will cover that as well. These measurements do not, did not tell the whole story by a long shot.

I touched on the install but have more to say. I'm sure if you are still reading this, you have some interest in Audio.... so you've heard of Dynamat. I intended to reinforce our boomy plastic sub-enclosure during this experiment was NOT spending $140 on dynamat to do this seeing as one of our goals was/is to achieve dramitic results on a homeless budget.
so, "poor mans dynamat"



About $15 at HD and boy it takes more to line that puppy than you think. Goes in nice, feels and looks just like the real thing, maybe because its basically the same stuff ...aluminum faced butyl.

Here is the finished Look



Conclusion:
IF you like Boomy, muddy, unfocused, over-done low freq than the factory sub plays pretty loud IMO (especially after the SB and tweet mod for some reason) I NEVER could get my lows to do anything I wanted them to do even after dicking around with treble/mids/bass forever on the HU. It was either too much or not eneough and for me (recovering audiophile) that is frustrating enough to make me do tear-outs and spend rediculous money.
I believe the bass is the foundation of the music, it should "be there" but NOT over power, it should HIT but not bath me in mud (thats what the jeep is for)
This sub at 92db measured, is musical, it is accurate and it Hits. My son said, "Wow I can feel that in my back and coming from under me" no longer did I hear the Sub ....in the back of the cargo area, I heard BASS in the soundstage.
IF the signal or source is compressed or lacking Bass - this Sub WILL NOT add the bass like the stock sub did/does. It will sound compressed and missing.
BUT if you listen to something with good quality Bass then you will hear it and feel it - you wouldn't with the stock sub.
Here are a couple test pieces that you can hook up your phone or computer via the USB or aux port and play from YouTube.
Artist/Song
  • Cashmere Cat - Mirror Maru
  • Pretty Lights - Finally Moving
  • Beau Jocque & the Zydeco High Rollers - Going to the Country
  • Klingande - Jubel

You may like the music, you may not BUT you will get a feel for what these $100 (tweeter/SB/Sub) - you just spent .... bought you.

That's it music Fans. If I/We can help. Cool

Thank you Pressurized, SteedGun and others and thanks for reading all this if you did.
Later
Rubi

In case you are interested:
Amazon.com: Pioneer TS-SW2002D2 8-inch Shallow-Mount Subwoofer with 600 Watts Max Power: Car Electronics
 
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9
#4 ·
I would never have done any of the mods I have done without this forum. Thanks!
 
#5 ·
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented?

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?

3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil?

.
 
#7 ·
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented?

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?

3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil?

.
Rubi... questions:

1. Is the factory enclosure considered sealed or vented? Sealed

2. What in particular led you to purchase the Pioneer vs. Rockford Fosgate vs. Kicker vs. Earthquake Sound SWS as seen on Sonicelectronix?
The low profile and sensitivity for the most part, in conversations with Pressurized "we" decided that I would jump on this one as our test subject realizing that the numbers were one thing but the truth would be in the listening.
3. Does it matter if a subwoofer has a single or dual voice coil? Yes. Our subs have (are wired for) DVC's, that was a prerequisite in the replacement Press' can comment on the why's I am sure.

.
...................
 
#6 ·
That's awesome RubiconSS. From what I am seeing, nothing will install easier and cleaner than this Pioneer TS-SW2002D2.

Speaking of clean, I really like how you describe the musicality of the new sub. I find the stock sub distorts and doesn't sound natural at all when you try to put some volume to it.

I envision a system after all of the mods are done that reduces your equalizer attenuation while allowing a lot more volume to be pressed in to service. So instead of +5 or 6 on Treble, its down to flat or +2 and Bass can be +2 or maybe +4 and sound "right and tight" at maybe 24 or more on the volume control.

I know on paper I was looking for something that played "louder" than the stock sub. However, with the tweeter mod, the 6032si in the sound bar (and dash if you choose) and the polyfil, I think we have probably changed the system so much that rethinking how we use the equalizer is the trick to pulling this off.

Seriously:

Tweeter Mod: $3 and 20 minutes.
Soundbar 6032si: $55 and 20 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.
Polyfil: $2 and a few minutes.
Pioneer Sub: $75 and 15 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.

For $150 I believe we are nearing a real "premium" system.

I'm in!!

:beerdrinking:

I do believe these results are probably similar to what Steedgun got with the RF, but the install is easier.
 
#10 ·
That's awesome RubiconSS. From what I am seeing, nothing will install easier and cleaner than this Pioneer TS-SW2002D2.

Speaking of clean, I really like how you describe the musicality of the new sub. I find the stock sub distorts and doesn't sound natural at all when you try to put some volume to it.

I envision a system after all of the mods are done that reduces your equalizer attenuation while allowing a lot more volume to be pressed in to service. So instead of +5 or 6 on Treble, its down to flat or +2 and Bass can be +2 or maybe +4 and sound "right and tight" at maybe 24 or more on the volume control.

I know on paper I was looking for something that played "louder" than the stock sub. However, with the tweeter mod, the 6032si in the sound bar (and dash if you choose) and the polyfil, I think we have probably changed the system so much that rethinking how we use the equalizer is the trick to pulling this off.

Seriously:

Tweeter Mod: $3 and 20 minutes.
Soundbar 6032si: $55 and 20 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.
Polyfil: $2 and a few minutes.
Pioneer Sub: $75 and 15 minutes. Metra Adapters $8.

For $150 I believe we are nearing a real "premium" system.

I'm in!!

:beerdrinking:
Thank you for reminding me Press'...... Yes my stock system would often be at max volume and "playing" what I would describe as one dimensional, mono chromatic (so to speak) sound. I wouldn't call it Music because it did not involve me at all.
Then I did the tweets and really felt the involvement come in, then came the SB's and coupled with the tweets I had a soundstage, performer emotion was being recreated and transmitted/received. I was listening to it instead of tolerating it.....but
the low end was a distraction.
Now I am at flat "0" on highs and mids and if I want to - I can actually go to +2 on the Bass (while playing lets say, one of the four songs I listed) and at 22- as high as 28 on volume - be slammin' clear, correctly staged music with Bass that is really hitting as it should be. No distraction and no localization of the sound wave discernible just a total encompassing presentation.
In addition to the polyfill, I do suggest the reinforcement/lining of the sub-enclosure with the mat. It is easy and cheap to do so and I will tell you how to test it. "Rap" on the outside of the enclosure as is and then rap on it once lined. It is a dull thud after being lined and that is what you want, an acoustically neutral "dead" (as is possible with it being plastic) enclosure. The reason why speakers are made of MDF and then veneered with wood is multi-fold. Wood is not a stable medium (contracts and expands/warps, etc) MDF is both stable and acoustically neutral. The designer has enough to contend with (cross-overs, drivers, nodes, room acoustics, power handling, etc) doesn't need the "Box" tuning to be an issue more than it already is.
So, anyway.....
 
#8 ·
The stock speakers (I haven't touched them except for poly fill in the SB and SW) actually don't sound horrible with my new Pioneer HU. I had little to no bass prior and now it's there. The rest of the system woke up too. I firmly believe that it is not the speakers or the amp or the HU. It is the whole system together sucks.

You change the speakers, it gets better. You change the HU, it gets better. It's almost like they engineered it to sound like crap. My system is so much better with the new HU. Still, I think the speaker mods would make it sound great. I am so not convinced the amp is part of the problem. It's the signal going in from the stock HU's and the poor speakers acting in concert. Change one side of the equation and it will get better. Change both and it will become premium.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Nice write up Rubi. Thanks, for the $ 70 I might try the Pioneer as well and compare the two. I am slammed right now with travel but I should be able to play with this more later this week. I really like how your Pioneer fits better than the RF.

Hard to describe but my RF, as you noted with the Pioneer, just plays cleaner sound not all that much louder.
 
#13 ·
If memory serves I believe the RF sub was rated at 82-83db sensitivity. The Pioneer is 86db.
May be a factor. The Pioneer (as probably the RF) can be pushed harder (played at higher attenuation and volume) and yet stay in balance with the rest of the system.
When the screws lined up and I saw the words were centered I was pretty shocked I must admit. That doesn't happen to me.
Then I screwed it in and kinda went, "huh, no kidding that's cool".
 
#17 ·
A listening suggestion: After the Tweets and SB are done and you lined and mounted the Sub..... Youtube (on your phone or device) Beau Jocque and the Zydeco HiRollers version of "Knockin' on Heavens Door". A Great song no matter what BUT listen to it (in the dark if you can) at 24 or so volume.
Holy Crap!!!

IF anyone walks away from that not in shock..... Don't be driving, just sit and listen.
 
#20 ·
So after a little more time with it, is your impression becoming more favorable, less favorable or about the same as you felt right after the installation?

Any other tweaks to the settings, equalizer etc?
 
#21 ·
So after a little more time with it, is your impression becoming more favorable, less favorable or about the same as you felt right after the installation?

Any other tweaks to the settings, equalizer etc?
I like it better now than I did right after the install. Immediately after the install the "mind" plays tricks IMO. Aural Memory is measured in minutes (maybe) vs Ofactory or Visual memory which can be years.
I thought perhaps I was missing some "warmth" but that was distortion and bloat IMO.
Did not matter what I did to the EQ, I could not get the system to play accurately Especially the Bass (God, Yuck) NOW I play the system Flat .If you were so inclined, you could goose the Bass to +2 and it will play exactly as expected - with a little more, still tight, Bass.
Proof of that would be trying to play Beck on the "old" Sub. Impossible.
No way the oem sub could play Beck without sounding like something was going to come apart.
The song I referenced by Beau Jocque shows what this Sub can do, It hits as hard as my memory of my JLAudio system hitting. Slamming Bass.
It actually says quite a lot about the Alpine Amp hidden somewhere in my dash. I have always liked Alpine Amps and this is no exception based on how it steps up to the plate when asked to in this application.
I really want to hear someones description after hearing this song after the Four(4) steps outlined Tweets/SB/Sub/Poly and P&S
A system shouldn't "sound" like anything IMO. It should simply Play what you feed it. If you feed it crap - it should sound like crap. If it's good stuff it should sound good.
The OEM system lacked almost everthing in the form of neutrality, accuracy, staging, imaging, etc - It added its own "sound" which was Mush.
Thanks to you, it sounds amazing now and I've been in this Hobby for quite awhile.
BTW, no intention of swapping out the front dash speakers. OE with the tweets and everthing as it is right now is how it's staying.
 
#22 ·
So... I've ordered the Pioneer SW... Thanks Guys!

I'll post in this thread... I have read and posted in some of the other threads mentioned... but the SW replacement will complete my stereo upgrade.
I started with the Alpine Premium factory system (430Nav HU)... I replaced the sound bar speakers with Infinity Primus PR6502is, and replaced front speakers & tweets with Infinity Primus PR6500cs. Still running factory amp... with much much better, cleaner sound.

The sound bar speakers probably made the biggest single improvement. After that I'd say the new tweeters made a definite improvement, although I wish I would have tried Pressurized's tweeter mod first... it may have saved my a few bucks. Even after the SW change, I'll be at about $300 total. To me, that's a fairly inexpensive mod, for the benefit. If I had shopped the speakers a little more I probably could have saved a little, but I went thru Crutchfield. The Pioneer SW costs about $88 after shipping and wire adapters (Amazon), compared to $149 @ Crutchfield, so thanks for that RubiconSS...

A couple of comments/questions about my install. I poly filled everything.. fronts, sound bar, & SW. My new tweeters were a little too small to just screw the threaded mounts into the tombstones, and I tried to use the "nut" supplied but it was too large to get it up into the tombstone high enough... in the end I used a little Gorilla Glue to hold them in the tombstones. It worked fine and they look fine, so no big deal there.

I did run the factory wire out for the front speakers directly to the supplied crossover, then from crossover to the new front & tweeter. Since I didn't need the tweeter wires, I DID NOT cut the old tweeters off. I just pushed them down the tombstones and into the dash, (I figured if I ever pulled the upgrades out, I could just put the stocks back)
Does this cause any problems? I don't hear them, and they don't seem to have any affect on the new tweets, so I'll leave them.

As far as the new SW replacement, ...do you think the Dynamat or facsimile is key to getting the results or is poly fill good enough?

And to all who are reading these threads and still on the fence... come on in, the waters' fine! Ha!
I was hesitant too, at lease until I broke down and did the poly fill. At that point I realized how simple it would be to change out the speakers and when I started reading all the positive results, it became much easier to take the plunge. I already told you how much I spent, and admittedly could've have done it for less, but I'm extremely satisfied with the result. As someone else posted, I find that now I want to listen to the music, as opposed to just hearing it. Easily one of my better mods, and I wish that I had done it much sooner.
 
#23 ·
I would go with Polyfill. My only concern would be the factory subs enclosure volume, and the recommended volume for the Pioneer. I will be doing a Polk Audio S/W, the parameters are perfect for what I need, it is not my first choice for a S/W, but has what I need. I have the sport, the issue I am facing is the SQ from running high level inputs into the amp which has the capacity for it.
 
#24 ·
Blk- I would recommend doing the P&S as well as the PolyFill. The enclosure needs reinforcement as well as dampening.
Only way to reinforce is with the dynamat. Real Dynamat is both too thick and too expensive. The P&S is Aluminum faced Butyl and while I did not test before and after OR measure the space - the reasons are sound (no pun intended)
A knuckle rap on the enclosure before and after will show a noticeable difference in deadening as well as reinforcement.
 
#25 ·
First of all...GAAAH! you guys are hard on my wallet! But thanks for all the testing and tinkering to figure out how to make our rides sound good.

I just ordered the Pioneer sub so we'll see how that goes. I have 77Kick10's in my sound bar, would they go ok in the dash if I got some Infinity's for the bar?
 
#26 ·
First of all...GAAAH! you guys are hard on my wallet! But thanks for all the testing and tinkering to figure out how to make our rides sound good.

I just ordered the Pioneer sub so we'll see how that goes. I have 77Kick10's in my sound bar, would they go ok in the dash if I got some Infinity's for the bar?

LOL! If they fit the sound bar, they'll fit the front.

FWIW, I'd leave the Kickers in the sound bar and try the tweeter mod first. I noticed a huge improvement with my new tweeters, but only marginal sound difference in the new front speakers when compared to the factory ones. If you're not up to doing the tweeter mod, then just get some components for the front (woofs & tweeters) and use them up front
 
#27 ·
Any benefits to doing the peel and stick in the front seeker pods or sound bar? The sub has been ordered, hopefully this will complete my system. Thanks!
 
#28 ·
Personally speaking, I think the front pods are decent, but I will be putting some in my sound bar when I do the sub install. If you buy it for the sub, it just seems logical to put some in the sound bar to deaden the enclosure.
 
#29 ·
Please somebody..... humor me once everything is in and maybe a little break-in time as every component, ESPECIALLY Speakers need.
Ya gotta play "my song" I just wanna get your reaction. I'm sure there are lots of pieces to play but just like I had a song come on Pandora after the tweet mod and then the SB mod - I went out with my phone and youtube'd
the Beau Jocque piece and literally jaw dropped (so did my wife and son)
I listed a few other great songs to put the system through its paces, definately worth a listen, grab a beer and chill.

As for the Poor Man Dynamat, same audio principle applies as Press' points out. You will have half a roll left over after the sub enclosure. Why not put it to good use in the SB.
ANY enclosure is better as dead as it can be, IF they could mount drivers in concrete enclosures or a rock - they would, although they have resonant frequencies also just not ones we'd be able to hear.
IF the enclosure resonates or gives (flexes) that wave launch is diminished by an equal factor. Stiff and dead is best (Speaker enclosures people, get your mind back on audio).
Fun Hobby. My X-Wife hated it.

So, I built a dedicated Audio Room onto my house, I designed and built the room and it was for nothing but - 2-channel audio listening.
Wish I had pics (so did her attorney) but alas..... Had a dedicated line run from the pole and run through AC current purifiers before it reached the system. Double dry wall and Hospital receptacles in the walls.
I'm rambling..... sorry :)
 
#32 · (Edited)
Please somebody..... humor me once everything is in and maybe a little break-in time as every component, ESPECIALLY Speakers need.
Ya gotta play "my song" I just wanna get your reaction. I'm sure there are lots of pieces to play but just like I had a song come on Pandora after the tweet mod and then the SB mod - I went out with my phone and youtube'd
the Beau Jocque piece and literally jaw dropped (so did my wife and son)
I listed a few other great songs to put the system through its paces, definately worth a listen, grab a beer and chill.

So, I built a dedicated Audio Room onto my house, I designed and built the room and it was for nothing but - 2-channel audio listening.
Wish I had pics (so did her attorney) but alas..... Had a dedicated line run from the pole and run through AC current purifiers before it reached the system. Double dry wall and Hospital receptacles in the walls.
I'm rambling..... sorry :)
Haha... Dude, I was so curious, listened to it this morning on my iPad. I was half asleep as I was watching youtube, expecting to see a rock cover band.. I literally had an awakening. Thought I died and went to heaven after 0:30 .. Lol. This song is a composition .. to name a few, polka, mariachi music, reggae, hard rock, pop rock.. even heard some Peter Frampton..

Now, I couldn't help but notice "Pop That Coochie"... fired that baby up and woe.. hold down the fort. You gotta plug that mama in. Lol.

Btw... my old electrician audiophile buddy pulled a dedicated circuit, isolated ground and hospital grade receptacles to my system. I didn't know what the hell he was doing until it was done. He has dual triple licenses in Calif and Arizona, installs high end systems as part of his plumbing and electrical business.

He's one of those audiophiles that has $40K in his analog 2-channel tube system. Funny, whenever I talked about my Yamaha solid state integrated amp and Klipsch speakers he was respectful - with a slight hint regarding the harshness.

Time for more "Pop That Coochie" ...

Later gator.

.
 
#30 ·
Well I'll be pulling my speaker pods to apply the stick on material once the sub arrives.

I've been wanting to try my hand at fiberglassing, this might be the first project I try. Do you think there would be enough benefit to warrant glassing the outside of the pods and possibly speaker bar?
 
#31 ·
I don't think there would be enough benefit to go through glassing the enclosures... Although, I think I will peel and stick under the carpet in my DD and see if it quiets up a little. :happyyes:
 
#34 ·
Thanks for posting this Hobo - Modo I will start ordering so I can have it by this weekend. I don't have a soldering gun so the tweeter mod will cost a bit extra. How many Metra's should I order 3 bags for the 3 speakers or do I need 6? It looks like 1 bag takes care of 1 speaker but I can't tell from the picture.
 
#35 ·
Thanks for posting this Hobo - Modo I will start ordering so I can have it by this weekend. I don't have a soldering gun so the tweeter mod will cost a bit extra. How many Metra's should I order 3 bags for the 3 speakers or do I need 6? It looks like 1 bag takes care of 1 speaker but I can't tell from the picture.
Bag takes care of a pair of speakers (bag for SB, bag for Sub, etc.) sub has DVC's.
Pressurized's tweeter Mod well worth a soldering iron/gun. Get solder with lead if you can still find it (low temp melt) practice a little.
 
#37 ·
Note: I mentioned this before but I know sometimes threads can get long and detail gets lost.
The tweet mod does an amazing job of opening up/ livening up/waking up the entire system. Then the SB speakers .... transforms what is/was a DEAD bunch of nothing into a very big improvement.
Then the Sub, mush and muddy Bloat becomes tight and musical and Slams.

I left my front OE drivers (dash) as is..... I was fearful of having Four(4) tweeters up front and what that would do to - everything.
TOO much is just as bad as not enough and we/you are right back at start point. Trying to balance or atenuate that which can't be.

I could be wrong - I have not listened to a system that swapped the dash speakers along with everything else. I'm just saying, I've been there before (Gone to Far) not trying to alarm anyone just don't want to see anybody push past the "good as it gets" point and end up nonplussed.
Like to hear others input on this.
IMO, my system is perfectly balanced (now) warm yet detailed, FAST, stage is deep and wide, imaging is accurate, no driver is TOO present and none are missing...
Just trying to help....
Rubi
 
#39 ·
I did the front swap and do not think it is overwhelming at all. On my 130 HU with Alpine I run the bass at +6, mid at +4 and high at 0. If you put something on like Dave Matthews that has a lot of percussion, it sounds unreal. The music is almost a visual experience. I still need to swap my cap from the 10 uf to the 6.8 uf, then it should be perfect. Right now the stock tweeters are forcing a little too much sound through them but the 6.8 uf will fix that.

Most of my listening comes from Spotify or Pandora from my Samsung phone so the music input is somewhere in between a CD and FM radio. I only have one CD, Tool Aenima and every song on that CD sounds great.
 
#38 ·
subbed. Already have the front and sound bar infinity with poly fill done as well as stock tweeter mod. My god what a difference that made, now 25 volume on my 130 is almost too loud! This should round everything out. I just love the idea of keeping everything stock looking since I park in downtown Tulsa with the doors off every day. Thanks for the great write up!
 
#40 ·
subbed. Already have the front and sound bar infinity with poly fill done as well as stock tweeter mod. My god what a difference that made, now 25 volume on my 130 is almost too loud! This should round everything out. I just love the idea of keeping everything stock looking since I park in downtown Tulsa with the doors off every day. Thanks for the great write up!
I love the completely stock look as well, funny to see my Brothers face when he said, "Yuck, YOU got the base stereo? " Then I played Beau Jocque for him. I think he may have peed himself a little. :)
Gotta report back after you play Beau on the system after the Sub .....
 
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