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Suspension Recommendation: Dune Bashing Dedicated Vehicle

14K views 29 replies 15 participants last post by  DWiggles 
#1 ·
I guys, I'm new to the forum.

I live in Dubai (Middle East) and have a dedicated 4 Door JK for Dune Bashing. Our terrain here is very different from geography in other parts of the world. To compare to the US I would use Glamis desert in California as the closest comparison. It is powder sand here and We have steep uphill climbs followed by steep downhill descent. For this reason low center of gravity is imperative more than ride height & clearance. I noticed most member are rock climbers which is very different from my needs. Does anyone know what type of suspension system i should be looking at? This is a dedicated weekend dune bashing toy so I am quite flexible with price.


As you can see from the pictures low center of gravity and traction is critical in order not to rollover. Unlike in other off-road topography the closer the ride sits to the ground the better! What comprehensive desert suspension system would members recommend? Thanks !!
 

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#2 ·
Welcome to the Forum!

We are not as fortunate even in CA to have large expanses of fine sand dunes. There are some areas in Baja but the sand is not fine grain. The only place I've been that might even come close to comparing is the Huacachina dunes in Peru. There also a nice patch in Colorado but they in a national park so the only thing bashed might be the driver. :) However, the principles are the same regarding the size of the dunes.

Keep you front end light so it doesn't dig no mega bumpers or winch. The JK has a near perfect 50/50 weight distribution so try to keep it that way.

Floatation is important so a wider tire 12.5"+ so you don't have to lower the air pressure so much. The ambient temperature is high and tires get really hot at low PSI. The tire tread doesn't have a super aggressive MT (or paddles :) ). It's easy to dig a hole with fin aggressive tires, fine sand and lack of patience. You can even get away with some AT tires with a little bit of skill. Really large diameter don't help except to provide some extra ground clearance which doesn't matter that much if you maintain momentum and don't turn sharp. It helps to keep the tire diameter and weight down to have better throttle control. 33" works well even 35" with the 3.6 but not larger. My favorite sand tires are the Mickey Thompson ATZ/MTZs.

Regarding suspension the stock coils do fine you can add a 2" spacer for clearance or moderate coil lift on the firm side so you don't cycle as much as overheat the shocks. The shocks get a hard workout so external reservoirs is a good idea. You said low CG is important, particularly is you traverse tall dunes at good clip.

They are all pretty much common sense guidelines and since its wide open terrain it's easy to pick a good vantage point and watch experienced owners to see how their rigs are setup and how they drive them.

How far is water and fuel from the sand playgrounds?
 
#24 ·
Welcome to the Forum!

We are not as fortunate even in CA to have large expanses of fine sand dunes. There are some areas in Baja but the sand is not fine grain. The only place I've been that might even come close to comparing is the Huacachina dunes in Peru. There also a nice patch in Colorado but they in a national park so the only thing bashed might be the driver. :) However, the principles are the same regarding the size of the dunes.
Spinlock,

Are you forgetting Glamis in Imperial County? I had to use paddle tire on my Maico to get around that place.

.
 
#9 ·
Are there aftermarket "heat dissipation" solutions from JK out there? yes it gets quite HOT here.

:atomic:

I play in the dunes a lot during the winter, I would look at a 2.5 or less kit, I would put most of my money into the best reservoir shocks that I could afford and make sure they were valved for dune riding.
Hi DHC. what are you referring to when you say 2.5? Is this lift height over stock? Whats the reason this is ideal for desert driving?

I should explain that I am complete nube when it comes to offroad suspension. All of my riding as been stock suspension with desert friendly tires...I hope you learn more on this forum.



Well, I don't have anything to add to what's already been said, I just wanted to stop by and say . . .

Welcome to the forum! :wavey:
:bop: Thanks Beastmaster & Blue Baby!

Welcome to the Forum!

Regarding suspension the stock coils do fine you can add a 2" spacer for clearance or moderate coil lift on the firm side so you don't cycle as much as overheat the shocks. The shocks get a hard workout so external reservoirs is a good idea. You said low CG is important, particularly is you traverse tall dunes at good clip.

They are all pretty much common sense guidelines and since its wide open terrain it's easy to pick a good vantage point and watch experienced owners to see how their rigs are setup and how they drive them.

How far is water and fuel from the sand playgrounds?
Thanks for the welcome SpinLock !

Great Advice. you are the first person to give my some conservative recommendations. I'm thinking to do Hemi transplant so 50/50 weight distribution will be lost. I'm not sure what you mean by external reservoir as I am not too expereince with offroad suspensions. Is there a particular brand you would recommend. On my stock engine I struggle to go up many of the larger dunes here hence the engine upgrade. The city is built on a desert landscape (think Las vegas) so water and fuel never far behind. why you ask?

Thanks again for taking the time and all the great advice :happyyes:

I have 2.5" AEV lift plus 33" Mickey Thompson ATZ P3s. It's looks good but I find the tire tread too aggressive for the soft sand. I've felt my clutch slip even when running at 8 psi. I would probably go with less aggressive AT tires, such as Toyo AT or Coopers at to get the best flotation. As mentioned before, try to keep it light. The lift height is perfect at 2.5" and the stiff AEV springs will keep you from bottoming out during bumps going up the hill.

A heads-up. If you plan to put a spare on the back, all the speed bumps in Dubai will crack your tailgate in a few months, so get a tire carrier or teraflex hd hinge.
Hi sbrikho! Good points about speed bumps! not too worried tho as this is a dedicated offroader not Daily driver so mainly will be used on the sand. you are the second person who mentioned not to go with overly aggressive tire tread. I'm confused as most dune buggies I see (which i think are ultimate sand machines) use super aggressive tire treads. does this not apply to JK? I think I should have also mentioned I am looking at Hemi transplant. So i believe that they weight up front will be increased. I wonder if there is a tuner out there specializing in desert systems for the JK? Most of what I find out there are for rock crawlers, understandably as that is the terrain in the US.

Thanks again for advice, very helpful :happyyes:
 
#7 ·
#8 ·
I have 2.5" AEV lift plus 33" Mickey Thompson ATZ P3s. It's looks good but I find the tire tread too aggressive for the soft sand. I've felt my clutch slip even when running at 8 psi. I would probably go with less aggressive AT tires, such as Toyo AT or Coopers at to get the best flotation. As mentioned before, try to keep it light. The lift height is perfect at 2.5" and the stiff AEV springs will keep you from bottoming out during bumps going up the hill.

A heads-up. If you plan to put a spare on the back, all the speed bumps in Dubai will crack your tailgate in a few months, so get a tire carrier or teraflex hd hinge.
 
#10 ·
If engine heat and temperature are a concern, definitely talk to folks who have Hemi's before going that route. I live in Phoenix. My taller half has a Hemi in his FrankenHeep. While it is perfectly fine on pavement all day long in whatever heat the desert can throw at it, it can run really warm when we are offroad in the extreme heat. Granted we mostly crawl rocks here (we have some sand but not a ton) so not sure how different digging in sand is (it may be different - dont know), but the Hemi has been known to have a tantrum and run really hot. You have not lived until you are playing in the desert where it is 110 degrees in the shade with the sun beating down - and you have to shut off the air conditioning to keep the engine at decent temperature LOL! My mighty 3.6 V6 will at least crawl with full air conditioning at normal operating temperature. Altho I would suspect in the sand you move faster than we crawl so at least air would be flowing over the engine which I suspect may help. Definitely talk to folks who run sand there for their experience as that is quite a spendy engine to overheat.
 
#12 ·
Another option...

JK 3.5 Rock Runner System - Stage 2

Or wait till next year for the Pro desert kit with 3.25" C/O and bypass shocks all 4 corners.


Engine hands down a LS from Motec..lighter,better mpg's, more HP and won't overheat.
 
#13 ·
I've done a fair amount of driving in the sand. We used to go to the dunes every weekend with a toy hauler full of toys, or the Jeep on a flatbed trailer. One thing I would recommend for sand is a suspension with a little more up travel than you would typically use for trail riding. The bottom of the dune often times has a sharp angle to it (like the inside of a box), so a suspension with a little more up travel will help soak that up a little better, and you can charge the dune a little faster. I would recommend a 4" lift from one of the top companies (Teraflex Pre-runner, Evo, King). You will have to widen the Jeep to make it more stable on side hills though. The best way to widen a Jeep is with full width Dana 60 front and rear axles. You can get them from Teraflex, Dynatrac, and other places. The stronger axles would handle the power of you Hemi better as well. And I agree with mommymallcrawler about the heat from a Hemi possibly being a problem. My last Jeep had a 6.4 Hemi, and although power was fantastic, the engine cooling fan was on ALL the time. And that fan was so loud you would have sworn that it was going to suck in low flying birds. The loud fan got real annoying.

Something else to consider about a big V-8 engine in a modern JK, ... Traction Control! The new Jeeps have a traction control system that can severly limit the functionality of a big V8. The traction control is turned off in low range, but low range is too slow for deep sand. In high range you can hold the traction control button down for 8 seconds, and that will turn off the traction control in 4-HI. But, be aware that if tire speed exceeds 40 mph, the traction control automatically comes back on again. With a 6.4 Hemi under the hood of my last Jeep, tire speed in sand would exceed 40 mph in about one second. So you would turn off traction control, and it would come right back on again, and as soon as it was on it would cut power to the engine, and stop you dead in your tracks.

Here is a picture of a simple little sand hill I was trying to climb in the Mojave desert with my last Jeep. Traction control prevented the Jeep from climbing that dune, even though I had plenty of power to get the job done.

 
#15 ·
I've done a fair amount of driving in the sand. We used to go to the dunes every weekend with a toy hauler full of toys, or the Jeep on a flatbed trailer. One thing I would recommend for sand is a suspension with a little more up travel than you would typically use for trail riding. The bottom of the dune often times has a sharp angle to it (like the inside of a box), so a suspension with a little more up travel will help soak that up a little better, and you can charge the dune a little faster. I would recommend a 4" lift from one of the top companies (Teraflex Pre-runner, Evo, King).

You will have to widen the Jeep to make it more stable on side hills though. The best way to widen a Jeep is with full width Dana 60 front and rear axles. You can get them from Teraflex, Dynatrac, and other places. The stronger axles would handle the power of you Hemi better as well. And I agree with mommymallcrawler about the heat from a Hemi possibly being a problem. My last Jeep had a 6.4 Hemi, and although power was fantastic, the engine cooling fan was on ALL the time. And that fan was so loud you would have sworn that it was going to suck in low flying birds. The loud fan got real annoying.

Something else to consider about a big V-8 engine in a modern JK, ... Traction Control! The new Jeeps have a traction control system that can severly limit the functionality of a big V8. The traction control is turned off in low range, but low range is too slow for deep sand. In high range you can hold the traction control button down for 8 seconds, and that will turn off the traction control in 4-HI. But, be aware that if tire speed exceeds 40 mph, the traction control automatically comes back on again. With a 6.4 Hemi under the hood of my last Jeep, tire speed in sand would exceed 40 mph in about one second. So you would turn off traction control, and it would come right back on again, and as soon as it was on it would cut power to the engine, and stop you dead in your tracks.

Here is a picture of a simple little sand hill I was trying to climb in the Mojave desert with my last Jeep. Traction control prevented the Jeep from climbing that dune, even though I had plenty of power to get the job done.




Hey Mob! Thank you for your comprehensive response and advice! Good to hear from a duner that has actually used the Hemi in the sand too. I respect what you have to say about increased up travel with the front suspension. However, isn't 4" lift risky with dune driving. What I mean is that aren't you raising the center of gravity too high thereby increasing risk of roll-over? Just a question.

Regarding your point of widening, i agree that this is a must for stability and traversing side hills. Great point! I guess I will have to decide which engine hemi or LS to go with first and then ask the builder what axle they recommend.

Regarding traction control. I wonder why the tuners can't deactivate this? I mean if we pay upwards of 20-30K for install this should come with it.

Thank you so much for the great advice!

Another option...

JK 3.5 Rock Runner System - Stage 2

Or wait till next year for the Pro desert kit with 3.25" C/O and bypass shocks all 4 corners.


Engine hands down a LS from Motec..lighter,better mpg's, more HP and won't overheat.
Hi Caryt. the description of that system is that it is a "rock runner". perhaps not specialised for powder sand / dune bashing. I have heard about Tera systems but not rock krawler yet. will check them out. Thanks!

If engine heat and temperature are a concern, definitely talk to folks who have Hemi's before going that route. I live in Phoenix. My taller half has a Hemi in his FrankenHeep. While it is perfectly fine on pavement all day long in whatever heat the desert can throw at it, it can run really warm when we are offroad in the extreme heat. Granted we mostly crawl rocks here (we have some sand but not a ton) so not sure how different digging in sand is (it may be different - dont know), but the Hemi has been known to have a tantrum and run really hot. You have not lived until you are playing in the desert where it is 110 degrees in the shade with the sun beating down - and you have to shut off the air conditioning to keep the engine at decent temperature LOL! My mighty 3.6 V6 will at least crawl with full air conditioning at normal operating temperature. Altho I would suspect in the sand you move faster than we crawl so at least air would be flowing over the engine which I suspect may help. Definitely talk to folks who run sand there for their experience as that is quite a spendy engine to overheat.
Hey Mommy! it seems from all the feedback and reading i've done Hemis do in fact seem to run too hot for dedicated desert driving. Perhaps LS is the way to go... given that garages here are not specialised in this engine I would be concerned if something went way wrong. As a weekend toy last thing i want to deal with is headaches :)

Call Teraflex and talk to them about their LCG pre runner suspension systems.

I'd go with an AT for sure. Mickey Thompson ATZP3 would be a great choice.

Look at doing a heat reduction hood. AEV makes one.
Hi Tx! What is AT? Interesting that everyone seems to recommend teraflex pre-runner systems. Is there a particular reason for this?

As I think of this, for dedicated sand use, in Dubai, I would not buy a Jeep at all. Jeeps suck in the sand compared to a real dedicated sand toy. With the amount of money you are going to dump into a Jeep, you could buy an incredible sand car with 30" of suspension travel and an 800 hp engine, like the one in this video.

Sand Rail canal jump - YouTube
MOPWR2U, I agree with you 100% that nothing can replace a sand rail in terms proficiency in the desert. However I need to travel sometimes long distances to the sites I want to reach which will not be possible with sand rail. I also want to do that in a fair bit of comfort, powerful A/C,etc. Once I reach my destination I also wish to do some camping maybe with roof tent, BBQing etc. All of this is not really possible with Sand Rails. I take your point tho about proficiency in the dunes but for me jeep is best compromise ;)
 
#14 ·
As I think of this, for dedicated sand use, in Dubai, I would not buy a Jeep at all. Jeeps suck in the sand compared to a real dedicated sand toy. With the amount of money you are going to dump into a Jeep, you could buy an incredible sand car with 30" of suspension travel and an 800 hp engine, like the one in this video.

Sand Rail canal jump - YouTube
 
#17 ·
FYI - engine modification is illegal in Dubai. You will not be able to get the jeep through the yearly registration if you do a hemi swap...or even add a supercharger or similar...which means you wouldn't be able to drive it on the road.

Also, doors off is a no-no. You might get by with tube doors...

Just good to know all the facts before diving in and being disappointed.
 
#18 ·
FYI - engine modification is illegal in Dubai. You will not be able to get the jeep through the yearly registration if you do a hemi swap...or even add a supercharger or similar...which means you wouldn't be able to drive it on the road.

Also, doors off is a no-no. You might get by with tube doors...

Just good to know all the facts before diving in and being disappointed.
Hey Sbrikho,

Its strange you say this. Is this a new rule this year??? As A lot cars in Dubai are highly modified including my own get through no problem (unless you play with exhaust/fuel timing etc) . I never heard of RTA checking that engine matches the car brand. If you notice there are a lot of manufacturers out there (Bentley being one, Maserati being another) that use other brand engines (VW, Ferrari etc) so should not be an issue with this. Over and above that many after market tuners such as Hamann, Ruff, Ac Shnitzer etc all have their headquarters in Dubai where they sell HEAVILY MODIFIED cars right off the showroom floor. Many times the engines, superchargers do not match the make of the car. These companies would be out of business or move to another city if what you are saying is the case. Bear in mind I am importing the car - not doing the engine swap locally so the first time the car is registered will be with that engine in place. I hope this is not a new rule for 2015 that just came out...


My general rule of thumb over the last 40 years that I've been off roading is that for every inch of lift you should increase track width by two inches. If you do that, the vehicle does not feel tippy on sidehills and does not have increased propensity to roll over. Right now I have two 2014 Wrangler Sports. I bought one for my son, and one for me. My son's is entirely stock, and mine has a Teraflex 3" lift and 35s. Mine has 5 1/2" of total lift, with 1 1/2" from tires and 4" of actual lift from the Teraflex suspension (even though it is sold as a 3" lift). My Jeep has also been widened considerably with Dana 60 axles, and now has a track width of 82" from outside of tire to outside of tire. My Jeep feels a whole lot better in turns and on sidehills than my son's Jeep does, even though it has a 4" suspension lift. Here is a photo example.
Hey Mop, this makes a lot of sense. Offsetting ride height by widening the stance of vehicle should increase stability and limit chance of roll over. Are their any disadvantages to widening the stance - In terms of off-road driving i mean..


Thanks :)
 
#25 · (Edited)
I guys, I'm new to the forum.

I live in Dubai (Middle East) and have a dedicated 4 Door JK for Dune Bashing. Our terrain here is very different from geography in other parts of the world. To compare to the US I would use Glamis desert in California as the closest comparison. It is powder sand here and We steep uphill climbs followed by steep downhill descent. For this reason low center of gravity is imperative more than ride height & clearance. I noticed most member are rock climbers which is very different from my needs. Does anyone know what type of suspension system i should be looking at?
I haven't read the responses, forgive me if this is a repeat..

Its been 40 years, I would go riding at Glamis.. my buddies had sand rails. We called uphills with sharp downhill edges razor backs at Glamis... you know, I would get sea sick going through the bowls in a sand rail there, not fun if you're wearing a full face helmet. I haven't been there since the early 80's and a lot has changed since then, but as I recall you may want to go with a long arm setup with coil overs - paddle tires and flat fenders.

Here's a shop close to me with many options.

http://www.offroadevolution.com/store/proddetail.php?prod=EVO-DOUBLEDOWN-FRONT

 
#27 ·
X2 on Teraflex. I have the Mopar 3- which is made up of mostly TF stuff. Designed as a pre-runner kit. Of course coil overs are better but you'll pay for them. I love, love my TF hydraulic speed bumps. TeraFlex Product Highlight: JK SpeedBump Official Video - YouTube
You may want to eventually consider a PSC power steering cooler. I say that with a little hesitance because of some issues I've seen. But your fluid could get hot really quickly and make it difficult to steer. You can get hydro assist as well- I just went with the cooler. I understand there are some upgraded radiator options coming out. You can cross those bridges when you get there (if needed).
Someone said it however- its still a heavy vehicle. I can sail over lots of small dunes and washboards certainly faster than any other lifted JKs I run with. (within reason). BUT big whoops and deep holes still beat my JK (and me ) up. It's just too heavy coming up and down- plus the tall lift. The "pre runner" lift is about where I stopped and switched to rock crawling mods.
X2 M998- Off Road Evo. is probably worth a long (long) distance call. Or Currie Enterprises.
 
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