Switched to 35's and feel like a brake upgrade is necessary - Page 4 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:13 AM   #91
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The larger lever arm should give you more control but is not part of the equation just like braided brake lines had to be excluded from your abstract.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:15 AM   #92
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The larger lever arm should give you more control but is not part of the equation just like braided brake lines had to be excluded from your abstract.
The lever arm is the radius off the disc my friend so it is involved rather intimately. Brake lines however don't change friction or radius.

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Old 10-21-2013, 02:19 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
Yes, really.. you're way over thinking this. The problem has been solved long before you bought a Jeep.

I think you're in for some long nights... remember, you've only installed tires.

Good luck.

.
Who solved it, you and the other guy? Thinking about it is the only way to provide a competent answer that isn't just based off what random dudes with wrenches did to their old muscle cars.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:21 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Doctorsti View Post
By the way you don't need a PhD to understand physics. It's taught in high school.
Wait, there were classes other than study hall and gym?

I would love to see real world results if you end up doing an upgrade as well. I have previously upgraded a grand cherokee with stainless lines larger rotor and discs and definetely perceived a significant difference, but alas I wasn't concerned about proof and never bothered with measurements. Maybe it was a placebo effect? IDK. But I was close to pulling the trigger on the big brake kit.


Here is an article that i found on www.fourwheeler.com.

Cole Quinnell | Writer
Posted May 1, 2011


We are often weary of supposed bolt-ons, so the idea of a bolt-on brake kit scared us.
It's very common that off-the-shelf parts require the machining of something or changing additional parts to work correctly, and the brake system is not where you want to mess up. But after living with 35-inch tires on our '08 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited for about a year, we gave in to the temptation of an easy brake upgrade and decided to give the TeraFlex JK Big Brake Kit a try.
Bigger is better, but do you know why? There are three key reasons why larger brakes are better. The first is swept area, or the total surface area that the brake pads contact the rotor. Just like a larger tire patch on the ground means better traction, more pad on the rotor equals better braking power. The stock brakes provide 234.3 square inches of swept area; the bigger TeraFlex brakes provide 272.8 square inches. That's an increase of about 16 percent. Next is how far away the clamping action happens from the axle centerline. It's the same physics that make bolts easier to loosen with a 2-foot breaker bar compared to a 6-inch ratchet. The farther from the axle centerline that the pads ride on the rotors, the greater the stopping power. So larger diameter rotors equal more potential stopping force. Finally, the caliper can make a big difference. Essentially, a bigger caliper with larger pistons can squeeze harder, as long as the master cylinder can provide sufficient pressure and volume.
In addition to giving you improvements in all of these categories, this brake kit also includes performance pads. These have a friction material that is more aggressive, providing more grip on the rotor. The downside is that they can wear the rotors a bit quicker than stock, but TeraFlex feels that the material used gives you a happy medium between ultimate performance and longevity.
How's It Work
There is no proportioning valve to change on the '07-present Wrangler because brake pressure is managed through the factory computer. The ABS, ESP, brake traction control, and hill start assist are also unaffected by this upgrade. These systems will perform just like stock with the bigger brakes in place.
Once we bolted the bigger brakes onto our JK we did some before-and-after testing, as well as a seat-of-the-pants evaluation. We noticed two things right away. The first one isn't a positive-the brake pedal doesn't feel quite as firm as it did with the factory brakes. This is because it takes a lot more fluid to work the larger front calipers. The feeling isn't unacceptable, and the second thing we noticed makes it worthwhile-the initial braking action is much improved over stock. This is a bolt-on improvement that you can feel every time you apply the brakes.
To finish off our evaluation, we went to a secret Michigan testing facility and clicked off multiple before-and-after 60-0 mph tests. We applied full pressure to the pedal and let the ABS work to provide maximum pressure at the brakes. In stock form, the heavy Jeep stopped in an average of 125 feet. With the TeraFlex JK Big Brake Kit, our average fell to 108 feet, for almost a 15-percent improvement. That's a car length, which can be the critical distance you need to stay off the 6 o'clock news and return confidence in your braking power.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:24 AM   #95
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I tried pretty damn hard to lock em up this morning. Only chirps I got were when the tire lost contact with the ground over a bit of a dip and some gravel. Maximum brake torque is one thing but through the whole deceleration process a larger lever arm makes a difference not just at the limits of traction (notice I didn't say friction).
Maybe the ABS is working? It's hard to tell what exactly is happening unless you disable the nanny effect. I've been around bench racing for awhile, but this has to be the most in depth braking info I've seen referring to 4wd street vehicles. It's good info, don't get me wrong I do appreciate it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:27 AM   #96
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I know that of course but it is irrelevant if you had a combination of high friction force at the rotor and small lever arm of the rotor or vice versa. At the end of the day we are talking torque and in theory you can't tell the difference in brake distance either as a result of brake torque generated by a long lever or by a high friction force at the rotor. You don't have a "better" torque if it resulted from a longer lever instead of a higher friction force my friend. That's only why I said it is not part of the equation (as soon as you convert everything into a torque to torque comparison). Can't beat Newton in that regard, remember?
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:13 AM   #97
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You might talk with Blaine at Black Magic Brakes. He has a sweet kit.
JK Bigger Brake Kit
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:13 PM   #98
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Just passing on some good reading.
AutoSpeed - Braided Brake Lines

Originally Posted by Michael Knowling
Well, the first hose we tested was an old and worn rubber hose (which appears to be the original part from a ’65 Ford Mustang). In static conditions, this hose had an OD of 10.76mm and, when pressurised, it expanded to 11.02mm. An increase of 2.4 percent.

Next, we tested a brand new rubber hose. The new hose had a 10.47mm OD which expanded to 10.65mm when pressurised. An increase of 1.7 percent.

The final test was a new braided steel brake line. In static conditions, the braided line had an OD of 6.45mm and expanded to 6.49mm when pressurised. An increase of less than 1 percent.

Well, yes, a braided steel brake line does give less expansion under pressure than a rubber hose - but the margin is extremely small. And keep in mind that these tests were conducted at more than double the pressure you might generate in a real-world situation. So the difference between braided steel and rubber brake hoses is extremely, extremely small...
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:29 PM   #99
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More good stuff so that we can ALL be more informed in our decisions with a larger heavier vehicle with far larger radius tires then was intended from the factory.

http://www.centricparts.com/files/te...rake-lines.pdf
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #100
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:19 AM   #101
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Seems like a decent kit but for $565 you can get a 2 piston floating caliper and solid discs with higher friction pads from Teraflex. Add the larger diameter piston master cylinder for another $130 or so and you have more brake then you'll need for $700, half of the Hawk kit. Red powder coat is nice though and would look great with the red accents on the 10A.
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Old 09-28-2014, 02:11 AM   #102
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Great information on this page.

I appreciate the logic, defining of terms, and recognition of ideas of tangent - whilst bringing them back to the original topic described. Thanks Doctor STI.

Thanks to the others for also giving their experience and support from external sources.

Also looking to (in the future) purchase the TF big rotor kit.

DoctorSTI is it worth the value (understandably 'value' is defined differently by all, and although you don't have the TF big rotor kit, you have something very comparable).

Would be great if you had some follow-up.

Cheers!
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:49 PM   #103
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Any updates?

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brake , brakes , mopar brakes , rotor diameter , teraflex

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