The Importance of changing out stock bolts!! - Page 13 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 02-15-2012, 01:31 AM   #361
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
planman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 329
When using control arms or trackbars with rubber or polyurethane bushings, the bolts must only be torqued with the full weight of the vehicle on the ground (either tires/wheels installed or jack stands underneath the axles).

The reason for this is that when the bolts are torqued, the bushings and bushing bolt sleeves are pinched between the suspension brackets.

You want the bushings and bushing bolt sleeves in a neutral position at normal ride height.

If the bolts are torqued at a ride height other than actual ride height, you will destroy the bushings over time because they will be pre-loaded/twisted/binding at actual ride height.

Yes. All experienced installers loosen all trackbar and control arm bolts when a suspension lift is installed. And yes, they weight to re-torque the bolts until the suspension is at the new ride height. This is either crawling around underneath the vehicle with the tires/wheels first reinstalled, or they put jack stands underneath the axles so that the suspension compresses to the new actual ride height before torquing the bolts.

Changing the front trackbar bolts out is easy. I don't understand why the above questions have been asked when the answers are clear by just watching the video I made that has already been posted in this thread. The vehicle is very clearly on the ground:

[/QUOTE]

__________________

His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
planman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-15-2012, 05:54 AM   #362
Jeeper
 
OH9JK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Graham, NC
Posts: 738
Well there you go.


__________________
Crowded elevators smell different to midgets.
OH9JK is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-15-2012, 06:37 AM   #363
Jeeper
 
sneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,412
I dunno planman, how can we trust your expertise? I mean, it's not like you're the go to for questions on suspension, drive train, or even the gentleman who suggested originally that we swap out these bolts

I'm just saying, with those shifty eyes you look mighty suspicious!
sneck is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #364
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 35,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORNGCR8
Update fellas: good to go! My dealer really did the right thing and took care of ordering in new F and R track bars and then installed MY bolts through the new bushings (also the F911 bolt kit, mine is the Synergy Suspension kit that I got through EAD, $65 w/ free shipping cuz their cool like that!) Everything is now good, snug and tight and I can sleep at night knowing there's no more play down there. $65 for peace of mind makes me a happy Jeeper. Good luck to you all as well!
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-15-2012, 01:02 PM   #365
Bazinga!

WF Supporting Member
 
phottomatt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Havertown
Posts: 1,179
Images: 1
__________________


John
2010 Sahara, Red, rough country winch & stubby, Body Armor rock sliders, stiff spring mod, RC 2.5" series II lift kit, 33X12.5 Duratracs on 15" MB72s.
2007 Grand Cherokee, Red Rock Crystal Pearl, 5.7L HEMI
phottomatt is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-15-2012, 09:27 PM   #366
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: D/FW
Posts: 333
Got my replacement set. $32.50 from the local bolt store. No surprise why they're $45 shipped (must be 3 lbs +)!!

I can already see my 12 rubi w/4K miles bolts have shifted a bit!
__________________
2012 JKUR (doh)
Auto, Freedom, 410's, in Black
12JKUR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:20 AM   #367
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
planman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
I dunno planman, how can we trust your expertise? I mean, it's not like you're the go to for questions on suspension, drive train, or even the gentleman who suggested originally that we swap out these bolts

I'm just saying, with those shifty eyes you look mighty suspicious!
I'll try to do better
__________________

His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
planman is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 03:04 AM   #368
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: D/FW
Posts: 333
Are 12 bolts enough to do the rear end too???

A picture would be worth about 2000 words in this case.


Was I supposed to loosen my track bar and tighten back up after adding my 2" spacers (instructions said nothing about it but this does):

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/dia...les-78034.html

????

I can see w/less than 5,000 miles my trac bar has shifted!
__________________
2012 JKUR (doh)
Auto, Freedom, 410's, in Black
12JKUR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 03:11 AM   #369
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: D/FW
Posts: 333
Oops, planman even said:

"Yes. All experienced installers loosen all trackbar and control arm bolts when a suspension lift is installed. And yes, they weight to re-torque the bolts until the suspension is at the new ride height. This is either crawling around underneath the vehicle with the tires/wheels first reinstalled, or they put jack stands underneath the axles so that the suspension compresses to the new actual ride height before torquing the bolts."
__________________
2012 JKUR (doh)
Auto, Freedom, 410's, in Black
12JKUR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 03:23 AM   #370
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: D/FW
Posts: 333
NM , I think my thick skull has it now:

"in terms of the bolts, front and rear track bar = 4 bolt (one frame side, one axle side), 4 control arms = 8 bolts (1 frame side, one axle side. the track bar bolts are the shorter ones. each bolt gets one nut, 2 washers. make sure when you put a bolt on, that you place a washer on the bolt, insert into the jeep, place another washer on, then the nut. It's pretty straight forward. It'll make perfect sense once you get down and look at the bolts"
__________________
2012 JKUR (doh)
Auto, Freedom, 410's, in Black
12JKUR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 09:55 AM   #371
Jeeper
 
jazzy jeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Troutman, NC
Posts: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12JKUR
NM , I think my thick skull has it now:

"in terms of the bolts, front and rear track bar = 4 bolt (one frame side, one axle side), 4 control arms = 8 bolts (1 frame side, one axle side. the track bar bolts are the shorter ones. each bolt gets one nut, 2 washers. make sure when you put a bolt on, that you place a washer on the bolt, insert into the jeep, place another washer on, then the nut. It's pretty straight forward. It'll make perfect sense once you get down and look at the bolts"
What size bolt, 9/16" i know, what length and sleeve size for all 12 bolts needed? Im just gonna by my grade 8 from the hardware store. Also is it a good idea to change all the front end bushings first, where can i by a whole bushing kit for the front of my TJ?
jazzy jeff is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 10:42 AM   #372
Jeeper
 
JK-Uknowit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 206
OK, so I read this whole thread, watched the video and have learned enough to know that even my 2012 JKU needs this done. I have also read the DW thread by Planman and wish I'd have read this one first so I could have changed out al these bolts when I did my leveling kit.

I assume (and yes, I know what happens when you do that) that you should install these new bolts following the rules in the DW thread. By that I mean, get them all inserted and started and just to be safe shake the crap out of the Jeep side to side and front to back. THEN tighten everything to spec. SoOund about right gurus?
__________________
Cigarettes are like squirrels. Both are perfectly harmless until you put them in your mouth and light them on fire.
JK-Uknowit is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #373
Jeeper
 
gluestick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by JK-Uknowit View Post
OK, so I read this whole thread, watched the video and have learned enough to know that even my 2012 JKU needs this done. I have also read the DW thread by Planman and wish I'd have read this one first so I could have changed out al these bolts when I did my leveling kit.

I assume (and yes, I know what happens when you do that) that you should install these new bolts following the rules in the DW thread. By that I mean, get them all inserted and started and just to be safe shake the crap out of the Jeep side to side and front to back. THEN tighten everything to spec. SoOund about right gurus?
That is correct. Be sure to loosen the UCA bolts pre-shaking as part of the process. Even though you won't be replacing the UCA bolts, you don't want those bushings to bind either.
__________________
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think!
gluestick is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 11:24 AM   #374
Jeeper
 
ranjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lowell, AR
Posts: 695
Maybe this is a stupid question or has been asked in one of the previous posts but why would components designed to move as the suspension moves, bind? I mean, aren't these joints suppose to move? Aren't the rubber bushings just pushed in? Seems like they would straighten out as you drive.
__________________
2012 Rubicon Unlimited
Black, Auto, 4.10
Metal Cloak 3.5" Game Changer Lite, 37x12.50R17 Nitto Trail Grapplers, JCR Stinger & Rear Crusader Tire carrier with Rotopax, Recon 10.5K winch, Evo Protek skids, ACE sliders, sPod, Viair ADA
My YouTube Videos
ranjr is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 11:35 AM   #375
Jeeper
 
gluestick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 715
If you never changed the geometry of your suspension (aka adding a lift), then yes, it would not bind. By adding a lift of any sort, you are changing angles and geometries at which parts are operating. Failing to give them some play by loosening, shaking the hell out of your jeep to resettle, then torquing to spec will not allow the bushings to find their new path of travel, and will consequently result in binding, then eventually in wallowing of of the rubber bushings and their bolt holes. This will create play in these critical joints, and ultimately the dreaded Death Wobble. The disproportionately high rate of DW in modded/lifted jeeps vs stock is likely related to the fact that people are failing to follow this crucial step, then with their newly changed geometries, inadvertently kill their bushings.

The good news is it is not some abstract, prohibitively expensive thing to fix/avoid. The bad news is that Chrysler generally does not recognize the problem, and rarely provides the consumer with the correct fix, or course of action to avoid needing a fix in the first place.
__________________
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think!
gluestick is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 11:38 AM   #376
Jeeper
 
gluestick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 715
And to further elaborate, this wallowing can occur in stock/unlifted Jeeps as well. This is due to the fact that the incorrect size bolts are used in assembly, and the extra play of smaller threaded bolts (the replacement kit has shouldered bolts) chews it's way into the rubber bushing, creating the wallowing. Another possible cause is improper torquing of the stock bolts from the factory, or a gradual loosening of the bolts, creating excessive play, which only feeds into the threaded bolt eating the rubber bushing problem.
__________________
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think!
gluestick is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #377
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NoVA
Posts: 117
To confirm, are these the correct torque specs after you loosely install the new bolts, loosen the UCA bolts, shake it all around, and re-tighten all 20 bolts:

Front
Track Bar (2 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Lower Control Arms (4 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Upper Control Arms (4 existing bolts) - 75 lb-ft

Rear
Track Bar (2 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Lower Control Arms (4 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Upper Control Arms (4 existing bolts) - 125 lb-ft
__________________
2012 JKUR : Deep Cherry/Dark Saddle Leather : DGJ-DMF-NHK-XBM-AEM-AHQ-RHR-AAJ-HAB-CJ1
slpnbyu is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:05 PM   #378
Jeeper
 
sneck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,412
Quote:
Originally Posted by slpnbyu View Post
To confirm, are these the correct torque specs after you loosely install the new bolts, loosen the UCA bolts, shake it all around, and re-tighten all 20 bolts:

Track Bars (4 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Lower Control Arms (8 new bolts) - 125 lb-ft
Upper Control Arms (8 existing bolts) - 125 lb-ft
not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure the UCAs are 75 lb-ft

http://project-jk.com/jeep-jk-write-...orque-settings

*edit* and after reading it more, looks like both on the rear are 125. So it should be

Front upper control arm - 75 ft-lbs
Front Lower, rear lower, rear upper - 125 ft -lbs

*double edit* looks like we both edited to list the right torques! go team
sneck is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:10 PM   #379
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NoVA
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure the UCAs are 75 lb-ft

Project-JK.com - Jeep JK Wrangler Resource » Jeep JK Wrangler Torque Settings
Thank you for clarifying!

Note, I updated my original post.
__________________
2012 JKUR : Deep Cherry/Dark Saddle Leather : DGJ-DMF-NHK-XBM-AEM-AHQ-RHR-AAJ-HAB-CJ1
slpnbyu is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #380
Jeeper
 
JK-Uknowit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 206
Ok, just to be crystal clear, for me at least. I just ordered the kit from Northridge. It comes with 12 total bolts. I assume (here again, I know what that means) this is for:
LCA-4 total UCA-4 total FRONT Trackbar-2 REAR Trackbar-2
I ain't what you call a math wiz but I have crawled around under the Jeep a lot and this is the only way my ciphering works!!
Thanks
__________________
Cigarettes are like squirrels. Both are perfectly harmless until you put them in your mouth and light them on fire.
JK-Uknowit is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 12:26 PM   #381
Jeeper
 
JK-Uknowit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fort Mill, SC
Posts: 206
No wait, it's the LCAs front and rear! Doh!
__________________
Cigarettes are like squirrels. Both are perfectly harmless until you put them in your mouth and light them on fire.
JK-Uknowit is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 03:24 PM   #382
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
willee51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PEOPLES REPUBLIC of Forest, VA
Posts: 1,132
Yep!

Ordered my bolt kit
__________________
2012 (on the road again)
willee51 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 05:30 PM   #383
Jeeper
 
Djstorm100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 757
Quote:
Originally Posted by JK-Uknowit View Post
No wait, it's the LCAs front and rear! Doh!
Its the lower control arms bolts frame side and axle side (8 total) then track bars front and rear (4 bolts)

*****To point out Northridge's kit is grade 8 while poly's kit is considerable higher grade. Both kits work fine and great but some people think they are the same kit when they are not****
Djstorm100 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #384
Jeeper
 
marc10000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 72
Is this still an issue on current production Jeeps?

Anybody have a diagram of the front/rear suspension and the exact locations of the bolts that the Synergy kit would replace?
marc10000 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 05:56 PM   #385
Really liking the Jeep...

WF Supporting Member
 
strider_mt2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc10000 View Post
Is this still an issue on current production Jeeps?

Anybody have a diagram of the front suspension and the exact locations of the bolts that the Synergy kit would replace?
Welcome to the forum!

Yes and yes, both in this thread!

Enjoy reading both the forum and the thread!



I'm in, BTW.
Ordered my kit from Poly this evening.
__________________
2012 Unlimited Rubicon - Natural Green
Every Day Driver
strider_mt2k is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 06:40 PM   #386
Jeeper
 
gluestick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by strider_mt2k View Post
Welcome to the forum!

Yes and yes, both in this thread!

Enjoy reading both the forum and the thread!



I'm in, BTW.
Ordered my kit from Poly this evening.
Well put strider . And to those getting the Poly kit and missed it, EAD has them for the best price delivered.
__________________
Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think!
gluestick is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 06:45 PM   #387
Really liking the Jeep...

WF Supporting Member
 
strider_mt2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluestick View Post
...And to those getting the Poly kit and missed it, EAD has them for the best price delivered.
SONOFA
__________________
2012 Unlimited Rubicon - Natural Green
Every Day Driver
strider_mt2k is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 06:55 PM   #388
Jeeper
 
chris.george's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by gluestick

Well put strider . And to those getting the Poly kit and missed it, EAD has them for the best price delivered.
And back ordered until late next week, just FYI
__________________
First, gather your facts; then, distort them at your leisure.
— Mark Twain
chris.george is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 07:36 PM   #389
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: D/FW
Posts: 333
Guess I'm gonna have to replace my UCA bolts after torquing to 125.
__________________
2012 JKUR (doh)
Auto, Freedom, 410's, in Black
12JKUR is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 02-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #390
MallCrawler

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 35,950
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12JKUR
Guess I'm gonna have to replace my UCA bolts after torquing to 125.
Just re-torque them.

kjeeper10 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Budget sound improvement on STOCK Radio and Speakers jrohan07 JK General Discussion Forum 13 02-03-2011 03:16 PM
CAN: Stock Parts 4xplore Classifieds Archive 6 12-01-2010 09:24 PM
Question: TJ Trans Skidplate/tran mount bolts? Do they make stainless bolts? WTS TJ Tech Forum 3 10-17-2009 02:31 AM
F'N Torx bolts!!! skeez2v TJ Tech Forum 7 01-06-2008 09:22 PM
Broken upper shock bolts RUBICONVICT TJ General Discussion Forum 6 04-10-2007 11:25 PM



Download our Mobile App

» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 AM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC