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Old 12-18-2011, 07:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC
So the consensus is, for all Jeep owners to do this? I just picked up my '12 JKU Sahara, and would like to avoid these issues. I should replace these on my own, or let the warranty handle it? I like to stop problems BEFORE they actually happen.

On a side note, on a stock rig, how many of these bolts does one need to purchase/replace? Do you need an alignment or anything of that nature after replacement?
Well I've had my 2001 for 10 years with no lift.
Jk has 41,000 on it so far.

I think if you are going to replace the track bar , doing so would be a must.

Or obviously if you are having issues.

Im not going to worry about it until I start adding new components.

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Old 12-18-2011, 08:47 PM   #32
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I've been seeing this pop up frequently on here and a few other sites-I guess what I'm finding is a constant is that it's almost always (I've found one that isn't) an owner of a jeep that's been lifted-to any extent that has this problem-
Have we looked at what other factors could contribute to this? I can't believe raising the CG helps this at all-I'd be inclined to think it multiplies the side force applied when turning (to an extreme).
I'll talk with my techs tomorrow and see if they have any thoughts/insights-
Anyone bone stock have this issue(and miles they had it occur)?
TIA.

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Old 12-18-2011, 09:03 PM   #33
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Bone stock with 35,500. According to my tech, "everything is tight". I do think that my front right shock is going bad though... hoping I get a day off soon so I can change both fronts. Btw, any recommendations on a heavy duty shock? Where I live, it's easier to drive with snow on the ground cause the roads are smoothed out. Dry pavement feels like I'm offroading.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazoez
Bone stock with 35,500. According to my tech, "everything is tight". I do think that my front right shock is going bad though... hoping I get a day off soon so I can change both fronts. Btw, any recommendations on a heavy duty shock? Where I live, it's easier to drive with snow on the ground cause the roads are smoothed out. Dry pavement feels like I'm offroading.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:24 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by tazoez View Post
Bone stock with 35,500. According to my tech, "everything is tight". I do think that my front right shock is going bad though... hoping I get a day off soon so I can change both fronts. Btw, any recommendations on a heavy duty shock? Where I live, it's easier to drive with snow on the ground cause the roads are smoothed out. Dry pavement feels like I'm offroading.
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Old 12-18-2011, 09:32 PM   #36
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Could someone please post measurements of the control arm and track bar bolts we would need?
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:09 PM   #37
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Dustin,

Thanks again for the information. You have helped a lot of people, especially jeepers. I only hope fellow jeepers get off their butts to get the word out. It is a simple and easy fix that anyone can do. Thanks again. And please, thank your dad too. I see he helped.

Take care,
No need to thank me! Just doing my part if you will. The fix is really simple and cheap to do if you have basic tools or air tools

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
So the consensus is, for all Jeep owners to do this? I just picked up my '12 JKU Sahara, and would like to avoid these issues. I should replace these on my own, or let the warranty handle it? I like to stop problems BEFORE they actually happen.

On a side note, on a stock rig, how many of these bolts does one need to purchase/replace? Do you need an alignment or anything of that nature after replacement?
No you do not need any type of alignment. You are simply putting in a bolt that the correct size vs the stock. Also replacing it with a bolt that is shoulder.

Here is a part list from poly (from their kit with everything you need to go to aces or hardware store to get. Make sure you get some type of lock washer/nut or both as well. I would honestly double up with washers. Use a flat standard washer and then a locking on on top of that. Reason for that is the stock nuts and bolts are flange and these are not. So the washer helps dissipate the load. Be sure to get grade 8 or better.

  • 8) 9/16-18 UNF x 4.0" long F911 bolts (LCAs)
  • (4) 9/16-18 UNF x 3.0" long F911 bolts (TBs)
  • (12) 9/16-18 UNF G9 Stover top lock nuts
  • (24) 9/16" Extra Thick G9 hardened flat washers


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Good luck with the test, we'll catch you next time around.
Thanks! Test was easy just took forever as you have to draw parts and then answer questions. hopefully I'll have my go-pro next time!
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:10 PM   #38
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I've been seeing this pop up frequently on here and a few other sites-I guess what I'm finding is a constant is that it's almost always (I've found one that isn't) an owner of a jeep that's been lifted-to any extent that has this problem-
Have we looked at what other factors could contribute to this? I can't believe raising the CG helps this at all-I'd be inclined to think it multiplies the side force applied when turning (to an extreme).
I'll talk with my techs tomorrow and see if they have any thoughts/insights-
Anyone bone stock have this issue(and miles they had it occur)?
TIA.

Its not so much that fact these are lift. Its more has to do with the fact that Jeepers that lift their rigs push them to the limits/beat on them/ enjoy them. While the others are stay stock their whole lift don't see these "extremes" so they don't have any problems. Going off road and pushing the jeep just amplifies these problems IN MY OPINION.
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Old 12-18-2011, 11:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by tazoez View Post
Bone stock with 35,500. According to my tech, "everything is tight". I do think that my front right shock is going bad though... hoping I get a day off soon so I can change both fronts. Btw, any recommendations on a heavy duty shock? Where I live, it's easier to drive with snow on the ground cause the roads are smoothed out. Dry pavement feels like I'm offroading.

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Old 12-19-2011, 11:11 AM   #40
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Any idea which aftermarket track bars or LCA's come with the correct bolts?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:20 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by G-Mike View Post
Any idea which aftermarket track bars or LCA's come with the correct bolts?
To my knowledge none as most/all use the stock bolts.


Taking a trip to your hardware store or fastnel will have these.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:29 AM   #42
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Thanks for taking the time to post this info up!
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:40 AM   #43
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As I understand this thread....Please Correct Me if I mis-understand...We are talking about the 14mm threaded bolt being supplied/installed at the factory/by the factory and not an aftermarket lift kit supplier?
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:48 AM   #44
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As I understand this thread....Please Correct Me if I mis-understand...We are talking about the 14mm threaded bolt being supplied/installed at the factory/by the factory and not an aftermarket lift kit supplier?

We are talking about the stock factory bolts.


Now in regards to the aftermarket lift kits, I don't know what hardware they use for the track bar or control arms so I can't comment. I do know that rock krawler lca and track bar bushing hole size is 14mm from what I've been told from the guys over at JKowners.

Simple test you can do is take the track bar bolt out at the frame end and see how much play you have and compare it to the movie.
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Old 12-19-2011, 12:39 PM   #45
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Is this really true? Could something this simple really cause as much death wobble as everyone is having?

I find it hard to believe, would like to see some input from Jeep about this. If this is truly a big time fix for DW they should be ashamed of themselves.

I subscribed because just about every one I know who has lifted has had issues. I really want a lift, but really don't want to deal with DW and its related problems.
Unfortunately DW is not limited to lifted vehicles. Stock Jeeps can get it too. All the info presented here and found elsewhere regarding the bolt size and the hole it resides in can lead to DW. It is not exclusive to lifted Jeeps, we all share the same factory bolts until changed.
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:25 PM   #46
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[QUOTE=Djstorm100;1840856]We are talking about the stock factory bolts.

Well, just so happens I have sometime off coming, Christmas Holiday I think.
Was trying to decide what to do, now I have a project for this weekend when my son gets in.
Thanks for the calirification
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Old 12-19-2011, 03:05 PM   #47
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:32 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
No need to thank me! Just doing my part if you will. The fix is really simple and cheap to do if you have basic tools or air tools



No you do not need any type of alignment. You are simply putting in a bolt that the correct size vs the stock. Also replacing it with a bolt that is shoulder.

Here is a part list from poly (from their kit with everything you need to go to aces or hardware store to get. Make sure you get some type of lock washer/nut or both as well. I would honestly double up with washers. Use a flat standard washer and then a locking on on top of that. Reason for that is the stock nuts and bolts are flange and these are not. So the washer helps dissipate the load. Be sure to get grade 8 or better.

  • 8) 9/16-18 UNF x 4.0" long F911 bolts (LCAs)
  • (4) 9/16-18 UNF x 3.0" long F911 bolts (TBs)
  • (12) 9/16-18 UNF G9 Stover top lock nuts
  • (24) 9/16" Extra Thick G9 hardened flat washers


Link Poly Performance JEEP/TRUCK & BUGGY*::*Suspension*::*Suspension & Lift Kits*::*Jeep Suspension Systems*::*2007-Current Jeep JK Wrangler Suspension Systems*::*Synergy Suspension*::*Synergy Suspension Jeep JK F911 Hardware Kit - 4X4 Off-Road Parts, JK




Thanks! Test was easy just took forever as you have to draw parts and then answer questions. hopefully I'll have my go-pro next time!
$39.50 for a complete set at Alamo Bolt and Screw, ( local mom and pop shop )
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Old 12-19-2011, 05:59 PM   #49
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$39.50 for a complete set at Alamo Bolt and Screw, ( local mom and pop shop )

Nicee
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Old 12-19-2011, 07:21 PM   #50
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Unfortunately DW is not limited to lifted vehicles. Stock Jeeps can get it too. All the info presented here and found elsewhere regarding the bolt size and the hole it resides in can lead to DW. It is not exclusive to lifted Jeeps, we all share the same factory bolts until changed.
Soooooooo difficult to believe that Jeep doesn't know about this or even worse, they do and have done nothing to correct it!
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Old 12-19-2011, 09:55 PM   #51
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Soooooooo difficult to believe that Jeep doesn't know about this or even worse, they do and have done nothing to correct it!
I'm kinda with you-if a wrangler ever showed up with this problem-swapping bolts would not be an option.
That was what I was kinda wondering in the stock vs lifted and who has had this problem-the vast majority of DW claims are guys that have modified their rigs pretty significantly (I'm not to say correctly or not-I'm new to the wrangler platform)-but I've only found one case of confirmed DW in a stock wrangler (from a person who has posted several pics of off roading).
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:03 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by rockjock1

I'm kinda with you-if a wrangler ever showed up with this problem-swapping bolts would not be an option.
That was what I was kinda wondering in the stock vs lifted and who has had this problem-the vast majority of DW claims are guys that have modified their rigs pretty significantly (I'm not to say correctly or not-I'm new to the wrangler platform)-but I've only found one case of confirmed DW in a stock wrangler (from a person who has posted several pics of off roading).
Well, I'm #2 then. I am all stock. No lift, and all factory parts.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:07 PM   #53
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Well, I'm #2 then. I am all stock. No lift, and all factory parts.
I'd like to hear more than-miles, drive habits-ect.
I understand there are somewhere adamant that the factory set up is destined to failure-but it's a little Never Cry Wolf to me. There seems to be far more evidence of modifications and DW than stock and DW.
Anyhow-if you'd like to expound on your scenario-I know it would help us less edjumacated about the subject
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:09 PM   #54
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It's pretty certain that serious off roading is going to compound the problem, but then that's what they're supposed to be built for. Whether or not lifting compounds the problem would be hard to say or prove and the thing is that if a bunch of the proper bolts fixes it, then that's what the manufacture should be doing. I mean this is border line recall status.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by tazoez
Bone stock with 35,500. According to my tech, "everything is tight". I do think that my front right shock is going bad though... hoping I get a day off soon so I can change both fronts. Btw, any recommendations on a heavy duty shock? Where I live, it's easier to drive with snow on the ground cause the roads are smoothed out. Dry pavement feels like I'm offroading.
I guess I question your tech claiming everything is "tight"-and yet your stating you have death wobble. Everything I've seen shows this isn't a minor occurrence-rather-a sever and very noticeable non-factory front end movement/play......
I'm not questioning you-with all due respect-I just don't get a Jeep tech (even the worst) claiming that DW would be acceptable......
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by tropical36
It's pretty certain that serious off roading is going to compound the problem, but then that's what they're supposed to be built for. Whether or not lifting compounds the problem would be hard to say or prove and the thing is that if a bunch of the proper bolts fixes it, then that's what the manufacture should be doing. I mean this is border line recall status.
Agreed-but Id like to see the same lifted trucks do the same thing stock vs AM bolts and see the outcomes (in terms of off roading).
And while being built to off road means one thing to a company-we have to admit we excel at pushing those limits (hence the modifications).
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:49 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by rockjock1

I'd like to hear more than-miles, drive habits-ect.
I understand there are somewhere adamant that the factory set up is destined to failure-but it's a little Never Cry Wolf to me. There seems to be far more evidence of modifications and DW than stock and DW.
Anyhow-if you'd like to expound on your scenario-I know it would help us less edjumacated about the subject
35,500 miles when it happened. I am second owner so no clue from prior to 29,188. Never been offroading, though city streets suck due to construction. When it happened I was leaving my job after 16 hr day. Got on highway and only reached 45mph when I went over an expansion plate at the start of a bridge. Result was death wobble... had to let off gas and let the car slow down to 10 mph before it stopped. Prior to this it was all shimmys and a severe leak in the steering stabilizer. Changed week prior to dw.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by rockjock1

I guess I question your tech claiming everything is "tight"-and yet your stating you have death wobble. Everything I've seen shows this isn't a minor occurrence-rather-a sever and very noticeable non-factory front end movement/play......
I'm not questioning you-with all due respect-I just don't get a Jeep tech (even the worst) claiming that DW would be acceptable......
The problem is that if it isn't an all the time thing and they use the checklist and all the parts are "tight, no play", they aren't going to rip apart the front end. Ill wager that if I we're to change the front shocks -- which could also cause dw if they are bad if I remember correctly -- and change out the bolts I would not have any more issues. I could be wrong, but from what I have been reading up on it seems the logical solution.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:15 AM   #59
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I have a question after reading and rereading this thread. I am at about 35k on my Jeep. I am guessing that my sleeves likely have some wear from the threads in the bushing sleeves. Is the proverbial cow out of the barn here and the damage is done, or will switching to collared bolts stop the damage and keep me from getting to DW in the future. In other words, I know that these replacement bolts won't fix the damage done, but will putting in new bolts in damaged bushings be a waste of time as the damage is already done?
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:28 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazoez

35,500 miles when it happened. I am second owner so no clue from prior to 29,188. Never been offroading, though city streets suck due to construction. When it happened I was leaving my job after 16 hr day. Got on highway and only reached 45mph when I went over an expansion plate at the start of a bridge. Result was death wobble... had to let off gas and let the car slow down to 10 mph before it stopped. Prior to this it was all shimmys and a severe leak in the steering stabilizer. Changed week prior to dw.
This.
Did the dealer change the leaking stab bar? (under warranty at the time?)-I spoke to a couple techs early this morning-they both said that if moved that much-even for a wrangler-they'd dig much deeper into the front end (sway links, shocks, springs, ect)-
Sorry to hear it happened-it's those moments when you least expect and least want (after a 16 hour work day) that these really wake you up....

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