I've been following the Bestop Sunrider thread since before I took delivery of my JKU back in October. Since then, I've come to love having no freedom panels but like many of you, not so in love with the process of removing and re-installing. I park outside at home (covered) and at work (uncovered) so leaving them off is not an option. Especially at work if there is even the slightest hint of rain for the day. Even then, we get afternoon showers a lot in the summer.
What I didn't like about this Sunrider option was the price. I was also concerned about problems people were having with installation, rivets, weather stripping, etc. That's a lot of money to not be 100% confident in my purchase. But I was getting to the point where I felt like I was just going to have to suck it up and shell out the cash. So while researching for the lowest price I kept seeing this new freedom panel replacement top from Webasto. They branched out with a new company called BlackForest to offer a few items specifically for Jeeps, and one of those is their version of this soft top for hard tops appropriately called the Throwback.
The cheapest I could find the Bestop for was $650 shipped for the twill. Retail price for it is currently $730. The Throwback retail price is $730 as well, but they were making some claims that I found pretty interesting. The problem was it's brand new and I couldn't find any user reviews... anywhere. I spent some time talking with their customer service rep, who was more than willing to answer all my questions and provide further info. And Webasto has been around since the early 1900's. So all in all, I felt confident that it would be a solid product, and if not, they would stand behind it. I figure this might be worth the extra 80$ (or the same retail price as Bestop). So I placed my order directly with Webasto.
Here's what they are claiming on paper... I'll go through some of these in a bit.
Some are obviously the same as Bestop, but some... maybe not so much.
- One-hand open air freedom
- No assembly required, uses factory seals. 7 minute installation.
- Reusable storage box for Freedom Panels
- Rivet-less design features unique fabric folding, fabric retention and linkage technology
- Flush mounts and uses factory seals and water management.
- Impeccable fit and finish with molded header design and flush-mounted rear attachments using the Freedom Panel's original attachment points
- Unique molded header design, flush mounts and won’t damage the factory seal
- Off-road trail tested for more than three years on both the Rubicon and Moab trails
- Can be used without the hardtop.
So it arrived, and let me tell you, the box is freakin huge! I had it delivered to my office and there was no way this was fitting in my JKU because I have two car seats in the back. Even then, I don't believe it would have fit due to the length. The Throwback arrives completely assembled and with very thick padding all around. That's a good thing, just be aware. I removed it from the packaging, removed one car seat so I could drop the 60 side, and then it fit and let me close the tailgate.
Once home, the fun was about to start. The instructions are simple and pretty clear. As stated, it arrives fully assembled and the only hardware included is 4 bolts and 4 washers, and a driver bit you can use in the one that came in your Jeep toolkit. So you basically just put it in place, make one small slit in the padding on each side of the roll bars for the two rear screws, and then start bolting it up. Here's where I ran into a problem, and why this install took me an hour instead of 10 mins. The bolts could stand to be about 1/8" to 1/4" longer. In order to get the bolts to start threading into the clips, I had to apply a lot of downward pressure from above at the same time I was trying to push up and turn the bolt from below.
Here's a shot of the front left clip from above, the one attached to the rectangle hole (the other thing is part of a rubber spacer).
The instructions show the Throwback sitting on top of the Jeep, and the only thing they specify is to install the front screws first, then the rear screws, and then finally the big mushroom knobs that screw into the sound bar. So I was pushing down on the fabric top. This worked ok for the front screws and took just a few minutes and some strength. The rear screws on the other hand.... OMG. WAY too short. And I was worried I was going to damage the top. FINALLY it dawned on me... why not open the top? So I flipped it back and could see what I was working with, like in that pic above. I grabbed a small block of wood that would let me apply heavy downward pressure without putting a hole in the palm of my hand. Doing this with pretty much all my weight on my left hand, while I threaded the bolt in from below with my right hand finally worked. I was able to duplicate the process on the other rear bolt pretty quickly. Then I was finally able to screw in the big mushroom knobs which require just a slight pull down from inside the jeep. So now all bolts (4 new ones + the 2 knobs) were in and I was able to fold the top back down and try latching the front, which worked perfectly. The only other thing I felt was missing from the instructions is some mention of torque on the bolts. So I just used common sense and tried to make sure they were secure, but not over tight.
So how is it once installed?
FITMENT: Seems like it fits really well. Overall fitment and seams look even all the way around.
The front latches area easy to engage/release, yet you can really feel the tension.
It feels like its giving the top a good stretch when closing... nice and tight.
MATERIALS: Top notch as far as I can tell so far. The fabric is a heavy duty twill, black on both sides. Exteriors | Twillfast® RPC | Convertible Topping
All plastics look and feel OEM quality.
NOISE: I've only used it for a day so far so I'll have to update this later. When open, I've had it up to 60mph and it's as quiet as just removing the freedom panels. Once in a while, depending on the direction of the wind, I heard a slight flap here and there. I have not had a chance yet to take it on the freeway closed or open. I know this is important so again, I'll update.
LEAK FREE?: Again, I don't know yet. It uses the factory seals and water management so I have high hopes that water will not be an issue.
OPENING/CLOSING: It's a cinch. Unclip, "throw back", and you are on your way. When closing, just reach up/behind and pull it forward and attach the clips.
Literally a 5-10 second maneuver. SO MUCH BETTER THAN BEFORE!
UPDATE 1/22/17: Wind noise on the freeway at 70-80mph with the Throwback in the closed position is noisier than the freedom panels, which is expected, and not by a whole lot. It's just more wind noise. NO BUFFETING. In the open position, I am actually quite surprised at how little movement there is of the fabric. To me, it's no noisier than without it.
Here is a vid that attempts to show the noise while on the freeway in heavy, but moving traffic at 70-80 mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEhFjYym2cE
Here's some more pics.
I'm not familiar with the Bestop so I'll let those of you that own one make any comparisons of the design details.
I do know that the Throwback doesn't have the plastic trim running down the side and no logo.
So I hope this sheds some light on this brand new product and competition for Bestop.
Nice to have more than once choice out there.
To recap, the only thing I think needs work is either slightly longer screws, or amend the instructions to open the top and apply pressure from above.
This would have seriously made it a 10-15 minute install rather than an hour.
And give us some idea of torque for the screws.
Other than that, I am VERY happy with my purchase so far.
I'll update as I get more use out of it in various situations.
Oh, and as far as the "Reusable Storage Box" goes.... HA! As I said, the box is freakin huge.
No way, Jose. You are much better off just using the storage bag that came with your Jeep, and then shove them in the attic, basement or even the back of a closet.
Putting them in that box, side by side... I wouldn't be able to store it anywhere in my house.
Happy Jeepin!
What I didn't like about this Sunrider option was the price. I was also concerned about problems people were having with installation, rivets, weather stripping, etc. That's a lot of money to not be 100% confident in my purchase. But I was getting to the point where I felt like I was just going to have to suck it up and shell out the cash. So while researching for the lowest price I kept seeing this new freedom panel replacement top from Webasto. They branched out with a new company called BlackForest to offer a few items specifically for Jeeps, and one of those is their version of this soft top for hard tops appropriately called the Throwback.
The cheapest I could find the Bestop for was $650 shipped for the twill. Retail price for it is currently $730. The Throwback retail price is $730 as well, but they were making some claims that I found pretty interesting. The problem was it's brand new and I couldn't find any user reviews... anywhere. I spent some time talking with their customer service rep, who was more than willing to answer all my questions and provide further info. And Webasto has been around since the early 1900's. So all in all, I felt confident that it would be a solid product, and if not, they would stand behind it. I figure this might be worth the extra 80$ (or the same retail price as Bestop). So I placed my order directly with Webasto.
Here's what they are claiming on paper... I'll go through some of these in a bit.
Some are obviously the same as Bestop, but some... maybe not so much.
- One-hand open air freedom
- No assembly required, uses factory seals. 7 minute installation.
- Reusable storage box for Freedom Panels
- Rivet-less design features unique fabric folding, fabric retention and linkage technology
- Flush mounts and uses factory seals and water management.
- Impeccable fit and finish with molded header design and flush-mounted rear attachments using the Freedom Panel's original attachment points
- Unique molded header design, flush mounts and won’t damage the factory seal
- Off-road trail tested for more than three years on both the Rubicon and Moab trails
- Can be used without the hardtop.
So it arrived, and let me tell you, the box is freakin huge! I had it delivered to my office and there was no way this was fitting in my JKU because I have two car seats in the back. Even then, I don't believe it would have fit due to the length. The Throwback arrives completely assembled and with very thick padding all around. That's a good thing, just be aware. I removed it from the packaging, removed one car seat so I could drop the 60 side, and then it fit and let me close the tailgate.
Once home, the fun was about to start. The instructions are simple and pretty clear. As stated, it arrives fully assembled and the only hardware included is 4 bolts and 4 washers, and a driver bit you can use in the one that came in your Jeep toolkit. So you basically just put it in place, make one small slit in the padding on each side of the roll bars for the two rear screws, and then start bolting it up. Here's where I ran into a problem, and why this install took me an hour instead of 10 mins. The bolts could stand to be about 1/8" to 1/4" longer. In order to get the bolts to start threading into the clips, I had to apply a lot of downward pressure from above at the same time I was trying to push up and turn the bolt from below.
Here's a shot of the front left clip from above, the one attached to the rectangle hole (the other thing is part of a rubber spacer).
The instructions show the Throwback sitting on top of the Jeep, and the only thing they specify is to install the front screws first, then the rear screws, and then finally the big mushroom knobs that screw into the sound bar. So I was pushing down on the fabric top. This worked ok for the front screws and took just a few minutes and some strength. The rear screws on the other hand.... OMG. WAY too short. And I was worried I was going to damage the top. FINALLY it dawned on me... why not open the top? So I flipped it back and could see what I was working with, like in that pic above. I grabbed a small block of wood that would let me apply heavy downward pressure without putting a hole in the palm of my hand. Doing this with pretty much all my weight on my left hand, while I threaded the bolt in from below with my right hand finally worked. I was able to duplicate the process on the other rear bolt pretty quickly. Then I was finally able to screw in the big mushroom knobs which require just a slight pull down from inside the jeep. So now all bolts (4 new ones + the 2 knobs) were in and I was able to fold the top back down and try latching the front, which worked perfectly. The only other thing I felt was missing from the instructions is some mention of torque on the bolts. So I just used common sense and tried to make sure they were secure, but not over tight.
So how is it once installed?
FITMENT: Seems like it fits really well. Overall fitment and seams look even all the way around.
The front latches area easy to engage/release, yet you can really feel the tension.
It feels like its giving the top a good stretch when closing... nice and tight.
MATERIALS: Top notch as far as I can tell so far. The fabric is a heavy duty twill, black on both sides. Exteriors | Twillfast® RPC | Convertible Topping
All plastics look and feel OEM quality.
NOISE: I've only used it for a day so far so I'll have to update this later. When open, I've had it up to 60mph and it's as quiet as just removing the freedom panels. Once in a while, depending on the direction of the wind, I heard a slight flap here and there. I have not had a chance yet to take it on the freeway closed or open. I know this is important so again, I'll update.
LEAK FREE?: Again, I don't know yet. It uses the factory seals and water management so I have high hopes that water will not be an issue.
OPENING/CLOSING: It's a cinch. Unclip, "throw back", and you are on your way. When closing, just reach up/behind and pull it forward and attach the clips.
Literally a 5-10 second maneuver. SO MUCH BETTER THAN BEFORE!
UPDATE 1/22/17: Wind noise on the freeway at 70-80mph with the Throwback in the closed position is noisier than the freedom panels, which is expected, and not by a whole lot. It's just more wind noise. NO BUFFETING. In the open position, I am actually quite surprised at how little movement there is of the fabric. To me, it's no noisier than without it.
Here is a vid that attempts to show the noise while on the freeway in heavy, but moving traffic at 70-80 mph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEhFjYym2cE
Here's some more pics.
I'm not familiar with the Bestop so I'll let those of you that own one make any comparisons of the design details.
I do know that the Throwback doesn't have the plastic trim running down the side and no logo.
So I hope this sheds some light on this brand new product and competition for Bestop.
Nice to have more than once choice out there.
To recap, the only thing I think needs work is either slightly longer screws, or amend the instructions to open the top and apply pressure from above.
This would have seriously made it a 10-15 minute install rather than an hour.
And give us some idea of torque for the screws.
Other than that, I am VERY happy with my purchase so far.
I'll update as I get more use out of it in various situations.
Oh, and as far as the "Reusable Storage Box" goes.... HA! As I said, the box is freakin huge.
No way, Jose. You are much better off just using the storage bag that came with your Jeep, and then shove them in the attic, basement or even the back of a closet.
Putting them in that box, side by side... I wouldn't be able to store it anywhere in my house.
Happy Jeepin!