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Old 11-12-2010, 12:47 PM   #1
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Three Random JK Tech Questions

Folks,

Apologies for the ignorance revealed by these random technical questions, but my curiosity demands answers. I have a sneaking feeling that--after laughing mightly at my foolishness--a great many of you can provide those answers rather easily.

(1) Jeeps are frequently modified with snorkle air intakes, ostensibly designed to allow the Jeep into deep water without hydrolocking. However, this still leaves the exhaust port wide open for taking on water. While not a hydrolock, how is this not a problem?

(2) Superchips Flashpaqs. Folks rave about them, but the primary benefits seem to be (a) modifying the shift times for the auto transmissions, and (b) recalibrating the speedometer for larger tires. Given that I have a six speed with stock tires, it appears I am generally not a good candidate for this product, correct?

(3) Once my warranties expire, I'm going to start on some modifications. A lift and larger tires will surely be a part of that. Since I have a manual trans and can shift whenever I want, isn't it in my interest NOT to recalibrate the speedometer? Larger tires mean less rotations to cover the same distance, hence larger tires should decrease the amount of miles that register on my odometer. In the event I ever sell the Jeep (not happening absent a financial crisis), that means the Jeep would appear "lower mileage" than it actually is and thereby elevate it's resale value. I get that there's an ethics aspect of this question, but let's just focus on the technical side of it for now.

Thanks. Let the flaming begin . . . .

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Old 11-12-2010, 01:07 PM   #2
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1. Yes that's what snorkels do but water can damage many other parts of your Jeep
2. There are other types of modding chips if your looking for some advancements. Wait for those who have to respond here.
3. Your EVIL and we all know it now.

Good day.

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Old 11-12-2010, 01:11 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Folks,

Apologies for the ignorance revealed by these random technical questions, but my curiosity demands answers. I have a sneaking feeling that--after laughing mightly at my foolishness--a great many of you can provide those answers rather easily.

(1) Jeeps are frequently modified with snorkle air intakes, ostensibly designed to allow the Jeep into deep water without hydrolocking. However, this still leaves the exhaust port wide open for taking on water. While not a hydrolock, how is this not a problem?

(2) Superchips Flashpaqs. Folks rave about them, but the primary benefits seem to be (a) modifying the shift times for the auto transmissions, and (b) recalibrating the speedometer for larger tires. Given that I have a six speed with stock tires, it appears I am generally not a good candidate for this product, correct?

(3) Once my warranties expire, I'm going to start on some modifications. A lift and larger tires will surely be a part of that. Since I have a manual trans and can shift whenever I want, isn't it in my interest NOT to recalibrate the speedometer? Larger tires mean less rotations to cover the same distance, hence larger tires should decrease the amount of miles that register on my odometer. In the event I ever sell the Jeep (not happening absent a financial crisis), that means the Jeep would appear "lower mileage" than it actually is and thereby elevate it's resale value. I get that there's an ethics aspect of this question, but let's just focus on the technical side of it for now.

Thanks. Let the flaming begin . . . .
what I like most about this forum is the honsesty of the members, and the overwhelming desire to help on another. You came with questions that you want answered honestly and accurately.

Sorry but even though it's a technical question the members here also have ethics and morals. You are definitely going to get an earful for #3
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:17 PM   #4
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1. Unless you're sitting in a pond, engine idling, the pressure of the exhaust exiting will keep the water out.
2. Million different opinions on these things. I used a SC Flashpaq in the past, wasn't impressed. If you want the details, feel free to ask.
3. Yes, that will work, ethics and possible criminal liability aside. Those are the factual factors, I'll leave my opinion out.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:18 PM   #5
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to answer your questions
1 i'll never drive through water that deep ( i hope)
2, imo chips are a waste of good money.( unless you turbo or supercharge)
3 why wait on the lift, i did mine at 1k miles, dealer said he would honor the warranty except for the suspension.


like i said JMO.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister
1. Unless you're sitting in a pond, engine idling, the pressure of the exhaust exiting will keep the water out.
2. Million different opinions on these things. I used a SC Flashpaq in the past, wasn't impressed. If you want the details, feel free to ask.
3. Yes, that will work, ethics and possible criminal liability aside. Those are the factual factors, I'll leave my opinion out.
Even in a pond, the compression on the engine will keep water out, as long as you dont kill the engine you are fine.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:30 PM   #7
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Sorry but even though it's a technical question the members here also have ethics and morals. You are definitely going to get an earful for #3
As I should--I tried to stem the tide by asking folks to keep it technical because I honestly want to know the answer, but if they can't, that's okay. Good, in fact. It speaks to the quality of WF's users.

Truthfully, given that I'm waiting on my warranties anyway, failing to recalibrate wouldn't make much of a difference from a resale viewpoint in my situation. Aside from the fact that I'm not intending to ever resell, I'll have tens of thousands of "true" miles by the time this issue arises and my Jeep will be half a decade or more old. My situation isn't likely present much financial incentive for me to avoid recalculating, and, frankly, I'd do the recalculation regardless.

That's not true for everyone however. Plenty of folks do these mods right of the shelf on brand new vehicles, then resell them a few years down the line to trade up to the next big thing. If the presumption of my question is correct, then they've got all the financial incentive in the world to not recalibrate. If that's true, then I'd like to know. And when my buddy goes to look at a 2007 JK on 35s sitting at the local lot, I'll make sure to tell him to raise his eyebrow at the mileage.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ncossey View Post
Even in a pond, the compression on the engine will keep water out, as long as you dont kill the engine you are fine.

I'll take your word for it, I'm not going to try.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:38 PM   #9
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This is why you should ALWAYS ask for receipts of work done to a vehicle. Unless the owner can PROVE the speedo was re-calibrated when the lift was installed, I'd be wary. Dishonesty runs rampant, especially when money is involved.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:41 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by GREEN-MACHINE View Post
3 why wait on the lift, i did mine at 1k miles, dealer said he would honor the warranty except for the suspension.
That's great, though I've heard that can be hit-or-miss dealer to dealer. I have other reasons too though--the primary being that I still owe $19k to Ally Financial on the Jeep (0% yeah!), so if I have extra cash my preference would be to use it to pay down the debt rather than do modifications. It'll be all mine in less than three years, and I'll get her all done up then.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:48 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister

I'll take your word for it, I'm not going to try.
Haha i had mine in water that was over the doors a week ago and i had no issues!! Kinda scary though lol!
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:50 PM   #12
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I've been through deep water (though not in my Jeep yet), deep enough to come over the hood of a 1987 4x4 Dakota, but never stopped. It was pretty much mashed to the floor.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:55 PM   #13
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As I should--I tried to stem the tide by asking folks to keep it technical because I honestly want to know the answer, but if they can't, that's okay. Good, in fact. It speaks to the quality of WF's users.

Truthfully, given that I'm waiting on my warranties anyway, failing to recalibrate wouldn't make much of a difference from a resale viewpoint in my situation. Aside from the fact that I'm not intending to ever resell, I'll have tens of thousands of "true" miles by the time this issue arises and my Jeep will be half a decade or more old. My situation isn't likely present much financial incentive for me to avoid recalculating, and, frankly, I'd do the recalculation regardless.

That's not true for everyone however. Plenty of folks do these mods right of the shelf on brand new vehicles, then resell them a few years down the line to trade up to the next big thing. If the presumption of my question is correct, then they've got all the financial incentive in the world to not recalibrate. If that's true, then I'd like to know. And when my buddy goes to look at a 2007 JK on 35s sitting at the local lot, I'll make sure to tell him to raise his eyebrow at the mileage.
I just wanted to prepare you for the responses, when I first joined WF I jumped in on a thread that had started months ago and got a few "shots" from some of the members all in good fun.

I would never claim to know the answers to your questions, there are people on here that have more knowledge on these subjects than you will find anywhere.

Wasn't trying to change the subject of the thread, just my opinion on it.
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Old 11-12-2010, 01:57 PM   #14
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Not sure the misrepresentation on the odometer is really worth it. Especially considering the possible ticket for not realizing how fast you are going. Some states it actually cost more for a ticket going slow then fast. But the fact remains, if you are going from a stock 255/75/17 to a 35 you are getting only a advantage of around 8 miles on your odometer for every 100 miles or 80 per thousand, 800 per 10,000, 8000 per 100K and lets say you get 250K out of your jeep before you sell it the thats only 20K savings. Not sure that a Jeep with 230K vs 250K at the same age is going to effect resale that much especially considering the moral factors and possible legal ones involved.

If running stock 16's then the difference is bigger by 50% which is around 12K at 100K or 30K at actual 250K but still don't see much of a resell value in misleading that figure
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:04 PM   #15
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heh Heh, you should never Number your questions, because you open the market for arguments !!


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Folks,

Apologies for the ignorance revealed by these random technical questions, but my curiosity demands answers. I have a sneaking feeling that--after laughing mightly at my foolishness--a great many of you can provide those answers rather easily.

(1) Jeeps are frequently modified with snorkle air intakes, ostensibly designed to allow the Jeep into deep water without hydrolocking. However, this still leaves the exhaust port wide open for taking on water. While not a hydrolock, how is this not a problem?

(2) Superchips Flashpaqs. Folks rave about them, but the primary benefits seem to be (a) modifying the shift times for the auto transmissions, and (b) recalibrating the speedometer for larger tires. Given that I have a six speed with stock tires, it appears I am generally not a good candidate for this product, correct?

(3) Once my warranties expire, I'm going to start on some modifications. A lift and larger tires will surely be a part of that. Since I have a manual trans and can shift whenever I want, isn't it in my interest NOT to recalibrate the speedometer? Larger tires mean less rotations to cover the same distance, hence larger tires should decrease the amount of miles that register on my odometer. In the event I ever sell the Jeep (not happening absent a financial crisis), that means the Jeep would appear "lower mileage" than it actually is and thereby elevate it's resale value. I get that there's an ethics aspect of this question, but let's just focus on the technical side of it for now.

Thanks. Let the flaming begin . . . .
My opinion is

1)-A lot of the snorkels are for HYPE and aren't hooked up, some are really true to the Hydrolock cause, but there are a lot of other engine/tranny/diff mods that have to be made and some are for use when traveling with groups on VERY dusty trails-they access cleaner air-

As long as the engine operates, the exhause cycle will keep any water out of the engine, but length of time can cause ingress, into muffler/cats-etc

2)-The more expensive programmers are supposed to inprove your gas mileage (BS), but
they can also disable your TPMS sys, mod your turn signals and more

3)-The chances of you going to court are nil, but if you sell the jeep,
You're liable Federally/State wise, if you sell the vehicle knowing the speedo has been tampered with-and you have tampered withit, if you didn't correct it after installing larger tires!!

Also if you disable the TPMS sys and sell the jeep, although thats pretty well saved as a nono,for registered business and car dealers

It's up to you just how honest you want to be !!

Good luck

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Old 11-12-2010, 02:04 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mr. Sinister
I've been through deep water (though not in my Jeep yet), deep enough to come over the hood of a 1987 4x4 Dakota, but never stopped. It was pretty much mashed to the floor.
We almost hydro'd a cherokee last weekend, whole thing shut down bouncing through some deep water. Took the intake apart and had some water in the throttle body, but we let it air out for about 30, then started it all full throttle and it shot out all the water and fired right up.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:08 PM   #17
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this is obviously a joke thread from a guy that drives a mini van!!! DUDE..u are busted!!!!
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
if you are going from a stock 255/75/17 to a 35 you are getting only a advantage of around 8 miles on your odometer for every 100 miles . . . . If running stock 16's then the difference is bigger by 50% which is around 12K at 100K or 30K at actual 250K . . . .
That brings up a whole other question I hadn't thought of.

What are the factory calibrations? My Mountain wheels/tires are a good bit bigger than the base ones that come on a Sport. Is this difference generally recognized at the factory? How about a dealership that makes such a switch?

I suppose this also raises the possibility that one could actually recalibrate downward when adding larger tires/wheels so as to maximize the discrepancy, though I'd argue this would amount to actual fraud upon resale.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:23 PM   #19
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We almost hydro'd a cherokee last weekend, whole thing shut down bouncing through some deep water. Took the intake apart and had some water in the throttle body, but we let it air out for about 30, then started it all full throttle and it shot out all the water and fired right up.
as soon as i pulled out of that hole in the Dak, it stalled and wouldn't restart. so we sat there for about 15 minutes or so and tried it again. fired right up. that truck kept going for another several years. that little 3.9 was indestructible.

sorry about the
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:32 PM   #20
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The chances of you going to court are nil
From a criminal standpoint, agreed. For those who haven't looked at my profile, I'm actually a lawyer. This isn't my area, but I would expect that unless you're doing this on a large scale, I'd say your chances of incurring a criminal prosecution for something like this are very, very small.

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but if you sell the jeep, You're liable Federally/State wise, if you sell the vehicle knowing the speedo has been tampered with-and you have tampered withit, if you didn't correct it after installing larger tires!!
Again, criminal liability thing is more of a concept than a reality in these circumstances. HOWEVER, I do think the chances of civil liability (i.e., a lawsuit) are actually quite good. If you buy a Jeep and discover its prior owner has tampered with the odometer and not disclosed that to you, you almost surely have a viable claim for fraud.

For what it's worth, I expect the case against somebody who merely failed to recalibrate would be quite a bit tougher than a case against somebody who affirmatively recalibrated to maximize the deception. As far as I know, fraud does require an intent to deceive in all 50 states.

Now, with all that out of the way, thanks so much for the great responses everybody. You've answered all my questions. This is really a great forum.
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Old 11-12-2010, 02:58 PM   #21
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Heh Heh, you weren't the defense attorney that rep'd that gal that sued Starbucks for hot coffee and--


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From a criminal standpoint, agreed. For those who haven't looked at my profile, I'm actually a lawyer. This isn't my area, but I would expect that unless you're doing this on a large scale, I'd say your chances of incurring a criminal prosecution for something like this are very, very small.



Again, criminal liability thing is more of a concept than a reality in these circumstances. HOWEVER, I do think the chances of civil liability (i.e., a lawsuit) are actually quite good. If you buy a Jeep and discover its prior owner has tampered with the odometer and not disclosed that to you, you almost surely have a viable claim for fraud.

For what it's worth, I expect the case against somebody who merely failed to recalibrate would be quite a bit tougher than a case against somebody who affirmatively recalibrated to maximize the deception. As far as I know, fraud does require an intent to deceive in all 50 states.

Now, with all that out of the way, thanks so much for the great responses everybody. You've answered all my questions. This is really a great forum.

Won-are ya??()

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Old 11-12-2010, 03:08 PM   #22
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Heh Heh, you weren't the defense attorney that rep'd that gal that sued Starbucks for hot coffee and--Won-are ya??()
No sir. If I was, I would've bought the Jeep free and clear courtesy of Starbucks! That'd be a "plaintiff's attorney" by the way . . . .
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Old 11-12-2010, 04:04 PM   #23
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I always think of miles as being "on the engine", not the vehicle. On that note, what's the relative difference between a Jeep that hasn't been calibrated for larger tires and one that's been re-geared to, say 4.88s? Which one puts more full rotations on the engine over the same 40k displayed-odometer miles? Rhetorical question but I am seriously interested if someone who knows the ratios wants to ballpark the numbers :-D

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