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Old 08-31-2014, 11:29 AM   #1
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Todays PSA: A Winch Does Not Make You Invinceable

A group of 3 from our Jeep club did a night run last night on a fairly dastardly (from what I have heard) trail. They are all experienced Jeepers with really built rigs. These are not folks with stock Sports they got last week with 500 miles on the odometer. Luckily that trail still has cell service. They posted up for an emergency rescue about 4am. One rig with a busted axle and broke its winch trying to recover themselves. Second rig with a busted drive shaft that also broke its winch trying to recover themselves. Only one rig is still driveable, do not recall if it has a winch.

I knew better than to volunteer to rescue - this trail is beyond my rig and my experience level. Do not volunteer on a rescue that is over your head, or you may end up added to the list of stuck or broke down rigs. If they could get out to the main trail, I would be there in a heartbeat to run parts or people, but that is all the help I could safely offer.

Lunatic was actually out by the trail working, but in his work truck so couldnt help with rescue. But he did call them and make sure at least the people were ok, had water etc and werent in immediate danger other than being stranded.

Club folks are there or on the way to help. The temperature is going nowhere but up.

So you folks telling yourselves "Going out alone/with one buddy, have a winch" - you are not as safe as you thought. ALWAYS let someone know where you will be and have help on standby. If it can happen to these folks, it can happen to you. Lucky for them they had cell service and a club behind them to help out. I cannot recommend enough finding a local club to run with. Fun and good times - sure. But also folks who are there to help you out. A winch and a buddy (or two) does not make you invinceable! Do not have a false sense of security. Anything can go wrong out on the trail.

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Old 08-31-2014, 11:40 AM   #2
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A group of 3 from our Jeep club did a night run last night on a fairly dastardly (from what I have heard) trail. They are all experienced Jeepers with really built rigs. These are not folks with stock Sports they got last week with 500 miles on the odometer. Luckily that trail still has cell service. They posted up for an emergency rescue about 4am. One rig with a busted axle and broke its winch trying to recover themselves. Second rig with a busted drive shaft that also broke its winch trying to recover themselves. Only one rig is still driveable, do not recall if it has a winch.

I knew better than to volunteer to rescue - this trail is beyond my rig and my experience level. Do not volunteer on a rescue that is over your head, or you may end up added to the list of stuck or broke down rigs. If they could get out to the main trail, I would be there in a heartbeat to run parts or people, but that is all the help I could safely offer.

Lunatic was actually out by the trail working, but in his work truck so couldnt help with rescue. But he did call them and make sure at least the people were ok, had water etc and werent in immediate danger other than being stranded.

Club folks are there or on the way to help. The temperature is going nowhere but up.

So you folks telling yourselves "Going out alone/with one buddy, have a winch" - you are not as safe as you thought. ALWAYS let someone know where you will be and have help on standby. If it can happen to these folks, it can happen to you. Lucky for them they had cell service and a club behind them to help out. I cannot recommend enough finding a local club to run with. Fun and good times - sure. But also folks who are there to help you out. A winch and a buddy (or two) does not make you invinceable! Do not have a false sense of security. Anything can go wrong out on the trail.
Well said the other thing to keep in mind...our Jeeps are machines, made by men and as such they do "BREAK"...sometimes at the absolute worst time!!

Hope all are recovered safely, and only damage is to the Jeeps.

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Old 08-31-2014, 11:52 AM   #3
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Yes, well said.. Always have a back up safety plan.. BTW, I just bought a Superwinch TigerShark 9500 SR (synthetic line) off the superwinch site. They are having a 40% off sale until midnight tonight if anyone's interested.. Winch, cover, and shipping = $353 and change.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:12 PM   #4
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MMC, these PSAs are really worthwhile. Keep 'em coming.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:43 PM   #5
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I don't know. Maybe they're not as experienced as they thought. 2 out of 3 immobile due to a night time ride? I remember you posted another PSA about an off roader rolling their vehicle down an embankment, although they were not speeding, not drinking, etc.

Something's going on with your club's night time rides.

Just saying.....

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Old 08-31-2014, 12:50 PM   #6
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That is good advise. A winch is not a 100% guarantee of being able to extract yourself. I've had a few winch failures in my life.

Top Truck Challenge 1997; the Ramsey winch on my Jeep burned up in the tank trap; something about not wanting to work while under water.

Rubicon Trail; Ramsey winch on my Jeep breaks in half while trying to extricate myself from the little sluice.

Jeep CJ-5; Stuck in snow over hood deep, in the middle of a large meadow with nothing in sight to hook a winch to. Had to walk back to civilization on this one.

Jeep TJ; Same scenario as the CJ-5. When snow comes over the hood you know you may be in trouble. Able to eventually power out on this one; 37s, an Atlas t-case, and Currie axles helped. Thank goodness for rev limiters, because I sure used them.
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Old 08-31-2014, 12:57 PM   #7
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Hal, I dont think that is accurate. No matter how experienced, how attentive, how good the equipment, how built the rig, things happen. Period. To think otherwise is both arrogant and dangerous.
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:59 PM   #8
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Yes, things do happen. But the vast majority of things happening are caused by human error. Whether the person wants to admit it or not. 2 out of a possible 3 winches (and other items) break while trying to extricate from the same location. What are the odds? I would ask myself, did the manufacturer build it properly? Were the winches (and other items) maintained IAW manufacturers specs? Were they installed properly? Were they used properly (if axle or drive shaft/U joint(s) failed, they were overstressed - not used properly)? Things just don't break. They break for the aforementioned reasons.

As far as wheeling alone, I agree with your recommendations.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:39 PM   #9
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Yes, things do happen. But the vast majority of things happening are caused by human error. Whether the person wants to admit it or not. 2 out of a possible 3 winches (and other items) break while trying to extricate from the same location. What are the odds? I would ask myself, did the manufacturer build it properly? Were the winches (and other items) maintained IAW manufacturers specs? Were they installed properly? Were they used properly (if axle or drive shaft/U joint(s) failed, they were overstressed - not used properly)? Things just don't break. They break for the aforementioned reasons. As far as wheeling alone, I agree with your recommendations.
I definitely agree it's how you use your equipment. You treat your equipment right, it treats you right. But we could arm chair it all we want but none of us were out there to witness it.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:48 PM   #10
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Things just don't break. They break for the aforementioned reasons.

As far as wheeling alone, I agree with your recommendations.
I highly disagree with this statement... things DO 'JUST BREAK', any piece of mechanical equipment can break at any point, weather it be due to over use, manufacturing defects or just stressed or worn parts things do break. And often with no warnings or obvious reasons. I will agree that the majority of times it is due to abuse, improper maintenance etc however to go out saying nothing will go wrong because its brand new, high quality parts, I don't drive it hard and so on is a very bad attitude to have. just my .02
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:05 PM   #11
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Things just don't break. They break for the aforementioned reasons.
I had a 2002 Grand Cherokee Overland, which only saw like 1% mild offroad use, 99% highway and suburban commute. Rigorously maintained, never abused, never in an accident.

The maintenance schedule called for routine replacement of the fan belt at 60,000 miles. The belt broke without warning at 56,000 miles in Newark, NJ (which is just as dangerous as breaking on the trail IMO)

And the torque converter conked out at 70k miles.

Both of these incidents required limping to the nearest dealership. On the trail I'd have been SOL.

Stuff does break. We're dealing with Chrysler/Fiat quality after all.
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:43 PM   #12
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I highly disagree with this statement... things DO 'JUST BREAK', any piece of mechanical equipment can break at any point, weather it be due to over use, manufacturing defects or just stressed or worn parts things do break. And often with no warnings or obvious reasons. I will agree that the majority of times it is due to abuse, improper maintenance etc however to go out saying nothing will go wrong because its brand new, high quality parts, I don't drive it hard and so on is a very bad attitude to have. just my .02
Come on guys. You're confirming what I said. " I would ask myself, did the manufacturer build it properly? Were the winches (and other items) maintained IAW manufacturers specs? Were they installed properly? Were they used properly (if axle or drive shaft/U joint(s) failed, they were overstressed - not used properly)".

marslim: Where you said "weather it be due to over use, manufacturing defects or just stressed or worn parts things do break", is basically the same thing that I said. There's a reason why things break.

And I never said anything close to " ... however to go out saying nothing will go wrong because its brand new, high quality parts, I don't drive it hard and so on is a very bad attitude to have."

cdeslandes: On your fan belt and torque converter: Maybe someone put something on the belt to stop squeaking and that something dried out the belt? Maybe some bad oil or something got in the oil to hasten the demise of the torque converter? Maybe both items were not built according to the manufacturers specs? All of these items could fall under the list of reasons I listed that can cause failures. Back in the days when I worked in a garage, whenever we opened the hood on any vehicle, among other things, we would always twist the fan belt so we could see the side that rides on the pullies. We'd check the belt for cracks. Maybe your mechanics did not do that (not maintained IAW manufacturers specs).

Things just don't break on their own. You don't place a screwdriver in your toolbox and the next time you pull it out, it's broken (unless you have kids ).

Regards,
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:58 PM   #13
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Hal I think it was just the way your statement was written, where I was going with that was that things break from normal use, over time or sometimes on their first use. Mechanical parts fail, period. One day your Jeep May run like a top the next day your fuel pump or in this case winch May shit the bed for no known reason. Breakdowns can happen with no notice and for no reason even on a brand new perfectly maintained rig
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:01 PM   #14
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Cool. I agree 100%.

Enjoy.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:08 PM   #15
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So the winches broke. Which ones did they have? Just curious.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:17 PM   #16
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I think we need a thread for your advice. Maybe called the off-roading advice thread. This isn't me being an ass and think these are good tips
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:33 PM   #17
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Another psa would be don't run a known crazy difficult trail at night. It may not be as cool as you think it will be and being stranded at night is no fun. Not very smart.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:38 PM   #18
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I've got a Warn Zeon 12k (steel cable) winch, Pull-Pal, Extreme Hi-Lift Jack, NAPA Pro 3600amp jump pack, recovery straps, choker chains, snatch blocks, shitload of lights, etc..

Been hauling/dragging crap out swamps/forests 'n likewise for 25yrs..

I'd go anywhere-anyway-anytime to help a friend-no excuses..
Nobody gets left behind/stuck out in the wilderness.. I'm coming to get you-no doubt...

Not trying to argue.. just sayin...
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:01 PM   #19
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Yes, well said.. Always have a back up safety plan.. BTW, I just bought a Superwinch TigerShark 9500 SR (synthetic line) off the superwinch site. They are having a 40% off sale until midnight tonight if anyone's interested.. Winch, cover, and shipping = $353 and change.
Link? I don't see anything close to that...
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:11 PM   #20
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I am glad I have a SPOT device on my rig. As long as I can get a satellite signal out my family can find exactly where my Jeep is at all times. So, if I go out on an event and don't come back at the right time they can track me down via the SPOT phone app or via an internet browser.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:21 PM   #21
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Link? I don't see anything close to that...
superwinch.com


its listed at $499 but with the code on the main page you save 40% off that

I ordered mine earlier for the same price as above
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:22 PM   #22
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Come on guys. You're confirming what I said. " I would ask myself, did the manufacturer build it properly? Were the winches (and other items) maintained IAW manufacturers specs? Were they installed properly? Were they used properly (if axle or drive shaft/U joint(s) failed, they were overstressed - not used properly)".

marslim: Where you said "weather it be due to over use, manufacturing defects or just stressed or worn parts things do break", is basically the same thing that I said. There's a reason why things break.

And I never said anything close to " ... however to go out saying nothing will go wrong because its brand new, high quality parts, I don't drive it hard and so on is a very bad attitude to have."

cdeslandes: On your fan belt and torque converter: Maybe someone put something on the belt to stop squeaking and that something dried out the belt? Maybe some bad oil or something got in the oil to hasten the demise of the torque converter? Maybe both items were not built according to the manufacturers specs? All of these items could fall under the list of reasons I listed that can cause failures. Back in the days when I worked in a garage, whenever we opened the hood on any vehicle, among other things, we would always twist the fan belt so we could see the side that rides on the pullies. We'd check the belt for cracks. Maybe your mechanics did not do that (not maintained IAW manufacturers specs).

Things just don't break on their own. You don't place a screwdriver in your toolbox and the next time you pull it out, it's broken (unless you have kids ).

Regards,
Sure, there is always a cause for an event, however is the root cause the Jeep owner's actions (bad maintenance, neglect, abuse, bad driving) and therefore a failure is to be reasonably expected, or is the root cause external (manufacturer or dealership's action) resulting in a random, unforeseen failure as far as the Jeeper is concerned?

As far as we, Jeepers are concerned, there will always be a certain amount of random failures caused by actions beyond our control and knowledge and therefore as we are concerned things do break apparently on their own, sometimes.

Remember, "Murphy was an optimist".
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:39 PM   #23
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I don't know. Maybe they're not as experienced as they thought. 2 out of 3 immobile due to a night time ride? I remember you posted another PSA about an off roader rolling their vehicle down an embankment, although they were not speeding, not drinking, etc.

Something's going on with your club's night time rides.

Just saying.....

Regards,
I do think this is worth considering.

Are the wheelers biting off more than they can chew? It appears so with this kind of carnage... Multiple vehicles broken, stuck, rolled...

Then again, I'm one of those guys who likes to take it easy on my machines, and they reward me with long life.

And some guys like to push it to the limit. Fair enough.

Regards, CW
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:56 PM   #24
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Yes, well said.. Always have a back up safety plan.. BTW, I just bought a Superwinch TigerShark 9500 SR (synthetic line) off the superwinch site. They are having a 40% off sale until midnight tonight if anyone's interested.. Winch, cover, and shipping = $353 and change.
Thanks for the heads up about the 40% off. I also picked up the same winch.
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Old 09-01-2014, 11:53 AM   #25
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Yes, well said.. Always have a back up safety plan.. BTW, I just bought a Superwinch TigerShark 9500 SR (synthetic line) off the superwinch site. They are having a 40% off sale until midnight tonight if anyone's interested.. Winch, cover, and shipping = $353 and change.
Why did you have to post this? I was ok with waiting for a winch but now I'm going to have to buy this one since its such an awesome deal!

Thanks lol
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Old 09-01-2014, 12:13 PM   #26
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superwinch.com


its listed at $499 but with the code on the main page you save 40% off that

I ordered mine earlier for the same price as above
summitracing also carries them for 350 w/ free shipping or 23$ tax if you live in the same state
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:35 PM   #27
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I am glad I have a SPOT device on my rig. As long as I can get a satellite signal out my family can find exactly where my Jeep is at all times. So, if I go out on an event and don't come back at the right time they can track me down via the SPOT phone app or via an internet browser.
I agree 100%. I would rather have my Mcmurdo fastfind than any other single piece of equipment on the trail, in my jeep or on foot
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:46 PM   #28
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I'm also curious what kind of winches they had. I doubt they had Warn.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:48 PM   #29
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Hal, I dont think that is accurate. No matter how experienced, how attentive, how good the equipment, how built the rig, things happen. Period. To think otherwise is both arrogant and dangerous.
Bury Me in mine too. Jesus Christ Jeep. Yeah, baby.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:08 PM   #30
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I'm also curious what kind of winches they had. I doubt they had Warn.
My Warn powerplant has very little use and has had a failure. Granted, seems to be the air compressor and not the winch itself, but ANYTHING can fail.

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