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Old 08-26-2012, 09:21 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10

You should sleeve and gusset the upper C's at minimum.
I don't think it cost more than a few hundred bucks, Parts/labor.
Beats 2-3k for new a new axle

See my new drive shaft ?
Nah I haven't you get the Adams rear or front??

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Old 08-26-2012, 09:24 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10

You should sleeve and gusset the upper C's at minimum.
I don't think it cost more than a few hundred bucks, Parts/labor.
Beats 2-3k for new a new axle

See my new drive shaft ?
How do they do the front?

What about to the rear do I need to do Anyrhing to it to run 315/70/17s for a year or 2. Then I am going to go to 35s/36s( after gears of course)

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Old 08-26-2012, 09:28 PM   #63
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Okay I wan to know what each does to the acle and benefits???

Sleeve?( inner or outer????)
Gusset?
Truss?

What's the benefit of one over the other?
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:03 PM   #64
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Sleeves are to help add rigidity to the tubes themselves. This helps prevent bending the tubes and puts less stress on the axles shafts themselves.

Gusseting on the C's help prevent them from bending. This prevents alignment issues.

Trussing is similar to sleeves in that it adds rigidity to the axle tubes. However, they also provide you with more robust mounting locations.

I am sure someone else will chime in with a more complete and technical answer, but this is the basic idea as I understand it.

Here is a good link with some more technical explanations
http://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_wrang...xle_truss.aspx
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:10 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dongalonga
Sleeves are to help add rigidity to the tubes themselves. This helps prevent bending the tubes and puts less stress on the axles shafts themselves.

Gusseting on the C's help prevent them from bending. This prevents alignment issues.

Trussing is similar to sleeves in that it adds rigidity to the axle tubes. However, they also provide you with more robust mounting locations.

I am sure someone else will chime in with a more complete and technical answer, but this is the basic idea as I understand it.

Here is a good link with some more technical explanations
http://www.tntcustoms.com/jeep_wrang...xle_truss.aspx
So axle truss is good with c gussets for 315/70/17s
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Old 08-27-2012, 12:39 AM   #66
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Correct. It is really a personal choice between a truss and sleeves. I think if you are under warrant sleeves are the better choice. I doubt most dealers would notice them if they ever had to fix something axle related. Heck most probably wouldn't notice the gussets if they were installed cleanly.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:35 AM   #67
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:55 AM   #68
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I didn't think I was going to hit anything that would require fortification of my axle, but it only takes testing the limits once to cause problems. I bent my Cs on 34x10.50-15 LTBs and a Teraflex level lift. It really doesn't take much. For the cost it's cheap insurance.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #69
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So if I choose to truss and gusset now could I sleeve later on?
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:13 PM   #70
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I heard that there is something like a truss but it is like a outer sleeve. So those help!
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:01 PM   #71
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i just put an order in on a 2013 rubicon if they are having so many problems with the axle and C bending even using stock tires and wheels you would think chrysler would have something to say about this or am i missing something
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:37 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frshmt View Post
I swapped to 34x10.50-15 LTBs the moment I pulled in the driveway with my '12. Drove on those for about (~5,000 miles) three months (two light wheeling trips on rocks) and when I went to get an alignment immediately after a "proper" lift and 35s the specs were already indicating my Cs were leaning in at the top. I was really disappointed in the lack of durability.
Without having the specs when it was new you can't say they were bent based on alignment readings you got at 5k miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
X2

At what point can a bent C cant be "fixed"?
Anything can be fixed, it is just a matter of how much money you want to spend. You can do a little fixing for not much money with a balljoint change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frshmt View Post
I was told by Jeep they absolutely will not replace the axle, because it was clearly being abuse well beyond the intended purpose of the vehicle. The fix cost? I pull slightly left to keep it straight.
It doesn't matter what they told you. The housings are covered just like everything else. If there is a flaw in the housing, they will fix it.

Quote:
Seriously, though- only the internals of the axles are covered and that does not include the shafts at all. I would know- my right rear shaft has been tweaked at the flange since two weeks after purchase and they refuse to do anything about it.
They refuse to do anything about it because YOU bent it by hitting something. The warranty is there to protect the buyer against manufacturing and assembly defects, not damage that you cause.

Quote:
Weld away on the axle housings because A- it's not gonna be covered anyway… and B- it's very expensive to properly fix it; so basically, once they're bent… they're bent. I could still go in with adjustable ball joints, but I rotate aggressively as it is so tire wear will be minimal. I'll gusset the front ASAP and when the ball joints are ready to be replaced, I'll get the Poly Performance ones.
One thing is for certain: If you weld on it there is no way it will be covered. If you don't you have a fighting chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frshmt View Post
Two weeks after I bought it I may have dropped the front end from about 24" in the air. It was probably that same spot that I bent the right rear axle flange.

That MIGHT have had something to do with it.
Yet you still think they should cover it under warranty?

Quote:
Here's the alignment specs at around 5,000 miles… I don't know WTF it means, but Rock Krawler told me it appears my Cs are leaning inward.



I'm getting it realigned ASAP, as that shop did a treacherous job and I have recently set up a new sponsor on our local message board who swears they can get me driving perfectly straight.
There is nothing wrong with the camber numbers on that sheet. It says the limit is -5/8 and you were at -3/4 when you took it in. The machine isn't accurate enough to tell the difference and neither is the tech running it. You already said they did a hack job on it, so why put any faith in the numbers they gave you? It was worse after they were done with it than before. The KPI numbers compared to the camber numbers tell a good story here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riccochet View Post
Sleeves don't just help keep the tube from bending, they also limit the amount of flex on the axle shaft under heavy torque situations.
Sleeves don't do anything to the axle shaft, just the housing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Tire leaning in and excessive negative camber.
Those can be caused by other things as well. Bad balljoints and wheelbearings come readily to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkmcd99 View Post
They dont measure the same as stock
How many people on here drove their Jeep straight to the dealer as soon as they got it so they would have stock camber measurements on hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dongalonga View Post
Trussing is similar to sleeves in that it adds rigidity to the axle tubes. However, they also provide you with more robust mounting locations.
To me a truss is the better solution because it allows the axle seals to be changed after it is installed.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:07 PM   #73
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So basically the Artec kit would have a person set as far as protecting against the event of bends happening? I'm going to be running 35's in the future and would rather be safe than broke...well, any more than I already am from all these mods
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:08 PM   #74
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Had the Synergy Suspension Inner C Upper & Lower Gusset Kit installed (http://www.eadoffroad.com/jeep/wrangler-jk/jk-drive-line/jk-axle-trussing/synergy-suspension-ppm-jk-iask-jeep-jk-dana-30-44-inner-axle-sleeve-upgrade-kit). I looks something like this in these pics right after the install:







Lots of wheeling. No problems.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #75
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ARMOR!
ARMOR!

That's gorgeous.
Now you just need to scratch it up a bit.
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Old 08-27-2012, 05:29 PM   #76
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I really like that Synergy kit. They make some very nice parts.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:11 PM   #77
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Those synergy skid plates are SEXY. They look even better beat up.

So anyway, i cracked and ordered the artec front axle armor kit. I would have done the rear also, but they didnt have it in stock for immediate shipping. I will do the rear also.

https://artecindustries.3dcartstores...KIT_p_309.html

Thats what I got. Pics and Review coming.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:31 PM   #78
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #79
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Just do front sleeves and gussets. Chromo rear axle to beef up the week factory flange and call it a day

Pie -- can't wait to see how that kit turns out
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:52 PM   #80
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I just wrote Artec and pointed them to this thread. I'm hoping someone from their company will sign up and contribute to this thread, both from the perspective of discussing reinforcement of the axles as well as sharing more info on their products.
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Old 08-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #81
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I just wrote Artec and pointed them to this thread. I'm hoping someone from their company will sign up and contribute to this thread, both from the perspective of discussing reinforcement of the axles as well as sharing more info on their products.
You should have pointed them to Pieface's thread since it is exclusively about axle armor. Hopefully they'll add some commentary.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:40 PM   #82
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You should have pointed them to Pieface's thread since it is exclusively about axle armor. Hopefully they'll add some commentary.
Good call. I didn't realize he had created a separate thread. Should they visit and post up, here's a link to the other thread that is solely about their product (although he doesn't have the kit yet... dang):

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/art...ew-183282.html
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:24 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frshmt View Post
...
The reason this is a bigger problem on the JK than it was on previous models is the JK has a ~5" wider axle. This is because they went to a V6 in 2007 instead of the I-6 in previous years. The frame had to be wider, so the body had to be wider, so the axles had to be wider. That 5" means an awful lot in terms of leverage and rigidity...
Aftermkt wheels with less BS or wheel spacers (required to run wider tires) also increases the width so figure the standard 1.5" spacer or wheel with 4.5" BS adds another 3" total to the width. 15" wheels have even less BS so add another 1.5" and now you're a full 4.5" wider than stock if you stuck with 255 width tires but most will opt for a wider tire (why else add spacers or wheels with less BS) and the measurement of the outer edge of the tread goes up even more. My thinking is that 15" wheels with 12.5" wide tires would produce the greatest wheel track width=largest leverage on the axle.

The TJ had a 5.25" wheel backspace where the JK is 6", this would offset the ~5" wider stance by 1.5" or did you already take that into consideration?

My wife's 2007 JKUR has 55K on it and though it's never been out for serious wheeling it's driven most of those miles on some of the worst roads MA has to offer, dirt would be smoother. Had an alignment done 3 months ago and it came out perfect, all miles were on stock wheels with stock Rubi tires. I was considering putting 15" wheels with 33x12.5x15 tires but this thread has got me rethinking that now.
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:57 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhdad

Aftermkt wheels with less BS or wheel spacers (required to run wider tires) also increases the width so figure the standard 1.5" spacer or wheel with 4.5" BS adds another 3" total to the width. 15" wheels have even less BS so add another 1.5" and now you're a full 4.5" wider than stock if you stuck with 255 width tires but most will opt for a wider tire (why else add spacers or wheels with less BS) and the measurement of the outer edge of the tread goes up even more. My thinking is that 15" wheels with 12.5" wide tires would produce the greatest wheel track width=largest leverage on the axle.

The TJ had a 5.25" wheel backspace where the JK is 6", this would offset the ~5" wider stance by 1.5" or did you already take that into consideration?

My wife's 2007 JKUR has 55K on it and though it's never been out for serious wheeling it's driven most of those miles on some of the worst roads MA has to offer, dirt would be smoother. Had an alignment done 3 months ago and it came out perfect, all miles were on stock wheels with stock Rubi tires. I was considering putting 15" wheels with 33x12.5x15 tires but this thread has got me rethinking that now.
This thread should scare you, it just brings to light an often over looked part of modifying vehicles, that is some folks buy a lift kit and think that is it and there ready to wheel the hell out of it. Sometimes, like with our Jk jeeps additional planing and modification/fortification IS necessary.
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #85
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What would a gusset/sleeve job cost these days? (labor)

I don't weld and already had my axles out doing balljoints..... I don't feel like doing it again
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:42 AM   #86
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What needs removed from the axle assembly to weld on the C brackets? Do the ball joints need pressed out? Remove the axles and wheel bearing assemblys? Inner axle seals?
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverton34
What needs removed from the axle assembly to weld on the C brackets? Do the ball joints need pressed out? Remove the axles and wheel bearing assemblys? Inner axle seals?
Gussets..No.... Just have to careful welding w/ sealed balljoints. Can easily dry them out from the heat.

Tubes... Yes the whole axle/unit bearing/steering knuckle is taking out like you were to do ball joints.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:24 PM   #88
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I just got a quote for $500 for sleeve & gussets. (parts and labor - I think he said the TF kit maybe?)
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #89
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Quote:
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I just got a quote for $500 for sleeve & gussets. (parts and labor - I think he said the TF kit maybe?)
Where ? Thats awesome.

I called valley and he did not even know what a sleeve was lol
Said "usually gussets big trucks running 40's and never touched a Jk"

Guess a no go here lol
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #90
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Where ? Thats awesome.

I called valley and he did not even know what a sleeve was lol
Said "usually gussets big trucks running 40's and never touched a Jk"

Guess a no go here lol

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