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Old 10-22-2012, 09:03 PM   #2971
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Originally Posted by Lucy Brown View Post
I also wanted to add that there is another thread here with a poll on who has had the problem. The haves are up to 30%. Somebody posted that a service rep for Jeep told him that the amount of complaints are only at 0.57% of Jeeps sold. Something doesnt wash here. How could 30% of the people surveyed on this site have had this problem if the % is as low as Chrysler claims.
The Placebo effect, anyone that hears a noise now thinks they have the head issue.

And people like myself without the issue aren't going to bother responding to the poll.

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:05 PM   #2972
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Honestly, I could care less what John or Mary want to buy for their next vehicle. The beauty is that it's your choice. I have a '12 Sport and it ticks to beat all hell, but I love it. It's the one vehicle that has given me the most freedom (outside of my '74 CJ5 that had a bad exhaust valve - no recall either LOL). I'm not one to believe that my vehicle (whatever it may be) will still be worth the same I paid for it when I turn the key and drive off into the sunset. I've opened up my eyes to that many years ago. Point being, don't buy a vehicle based entirely on what everyone else is saying. If you love the idea of having a Jeep then get one. If you're not sure then sleep on it.
If the vehicle needs a new cylinder head a couple miles down the road, then take it to the dealer and ask them to replace it. The tech's working in the shop have all been ASE certified and will know what and how to replace the head. Let the warranty cover it, that's what it's for, right? The way I see it, if the engine fails after warranty, I replace it with a hemi. Win-Win situation for me.

Hopefully we can get this thread back to the main subject.

Which leads me to my question.
Has anyone had the luxury of doing a dyno before and after the head swap? Just curious as mine seems a little sluggish as of late.

NOTE: John and Mary are fictitious names and not intended to harm the living. 😬

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Old 10-22-2012, 09:12 PM   #2973
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Originally Posted by therinr
Honestly, I could care less what John or Mary want to buy for their next vehicle. The beauty is that it's your choice. I have a '12 Sport and it ticks to beat all hell, but I love it. It's the one vehicle that has given me the most freedom (outside of my '74 CJ5 that had a bad exhaust valve - no recall either LOL). I'm not one to believe that my vehicle (whatever it may be) will still be worth the same I paid for it when I turn the key and drive off into the sunset. I've opened up my eyes to that many years ago. Point being, don't buy a vehicle based entirely on what everyone else is saying. If you love the idea of having a Jeep then get one. If you're not sure then sleep on it.
If the vehicle needs a new cylinder head a couple miles down the road, then take it to the dealer and ask them to replace it. The tech's working in the shop have all been ASE certified and will know what and how to replace the head. Let the warranty cover it, that's what it's for, right? The way I see it, if the engine fails after warranty, I replace it with a hemi. Win-Win situation for me.

Hopefully we can get this thread back to the main subject.

Which leads me to my question.
Has anyone had the luxury of doing a dyno before and after the head swap? Just curious as mine seems a little sluggish as of late.

NOTE: John and Mary are fictitious names and not intended to harm the living. dde2c
No Dyno but I think it does effect it somewhat. I mean cylinder misfiring after all. It did feel more sluggish from that first month I had it. Sorry also, lazy iPad typing.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:13 PM   #2974
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The Placebo effect, anyone that hears a noise now thinks they have the head issue.

And people like myself without the issue aren't going to bother responding to the poll.
I agree. Thats why I'm going to hold off in buying one. I know myself and all I'll be doing is listening to see if this ticking starts. It will drive me nuts so I'm going to wait until I know for sure the new 13's are fixed.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:32 PM   #2975
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First post. Long time lurker. Great forum.

Been conducting basic research. Ready to buy sport unlimited once this issue is resolved. Got screwed on nissan failing to fix a factory defect so a little gun shy. Surprusingly long thread. I have not been able to read it all yet.

Has Jeep weighed in on this or do they not participate in this forum?
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:34 PM   #2976
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Jeep has not been forthcoming with a clear concise answer.
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Old 10-22-2012, 09:39 PM   #2977
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I'm just going to hope it is fixed with the AC head. I don't think we are going to get a clear answer from Jeep on this one. ....they have already given two different answers on it...so what can they say?
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:03 PM   #2978
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Head work is NOT major engine work. I read on this forum about people changing gearing and putting in limited slip differentials as well as lift kits and similar work. Hour for hour it's pretty close to the same amount of labor. A well trained dealership can replace a head in a few hours if all the parts are avail. That motor is used in several different models in several different states of tune and the design is sound. This issue comes down to a manufacturing or materials problem. Anyone that has worked in the auto or power sports industry knows this shit happens. The biggest variable is the dealer doing the work. As for the impact on longevity, anyone driving a vehicle more than 5 years old or with 100,000 miles needs to be prepared for some engine work to be necessary. I remember when vehicles barely lasted 80,000mi. Chrysler is aware of the issues and apparently fixing them most of the time. As with anything where people and customers are involved the results may vary. Some people are never happy and will try and get blood from a stone if so motivated. Just as some dealers are scum and will do anything to avoid real work because they just want a fast buck. Document your issues, educate yourself, remain professional. I doubt this head problem will be anything more than hiccup in the long history of Jeep. Oh and I got "skin in the game" too as I picked up a 13 JKU with a sept 15 build date. U don't see me pooping my pull-ups.
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #2979
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Head work is NOT major engine work. I read on this forum about people changing gearing and putting in limited slip differentials as well as lift kits and similar work. Hour for hour it's pretty close to the same amount of labor. A well trained dealership can replace a head in a few hours if all the parts are avail. That motor is used in several different models in several different states of tune and the design is sound. This issue comes down to a manufacturing or materials problem. Anyone that has worked in the auto or power sports industry knows this shit happens. The biggest variable is the dealer doing the work. As for the impact on longevity, anyone driving a vehicle more than 5 years old or with 100,000 miles needs to be prepared for some engine work to be necessary. I remember when vehicles barely lasted 80,000mi. Chrysler is aware of the issues and apparently fixing them most of the time. As with anything where people and customers are involved the results may vary. Some people are never happy and will try and get blood from a stone if so motivated. Just as some dealers are scum and will do anything to avoid real work because they just want a fast buck. Document your issues, educate yourself, remain professional. I doubt this head problem will be anything more than hiccup in the long history of Jeep. Oh and I got "skin in the game" too as I picked up a 13 JKU with a sept 15 build date. U don't see me pooping my pull-ups.
yes indeedy do. I'm old enough to remember when 100,000 was considered ready for the scrap pile lol. Imagine the forums if we had internet back then LOL.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:46 AM   #2980
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Originally Posted by watson

The Placebo effect, anyone that hears a noise now thinks they have the head issue.

And people like myself without the issue aren't going to bother responding to the poll.
This was me. after listening to videos all day of the ticking problem. I have decided my jeeps tick is just my injectors. the placebo effect def got me. hope my non professonial diagnostic is right.. Anyone else feel like they fell into this effect?
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:48 AM   #2981
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Since I started using higher octane gas, my pinging is gone and the jeep runs like a top. I suspect if they weren't so concerned with advertised gas mileage and the fact that they say you cas use regular gas and that some engine knock is normal , they could reflash the computer to make it run cooler and get rid of this whole problem. I like others here suspect this is a localized heat problem leading to failure of the valve guides.

My JK has a build sheet date of Aug 13 and a door build date of Sept 12

Don't know wwhat heads I have
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:59 AM   #2982
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Update: Now at 18,000 miles, 4,000 after head replacement, tick is back. No this motor nor any motor manufactured in this century should not tick. It was very quiet when it was new and quiet again after the repair. For that matter any sound coming from new motors today, is an indicator of bad design or a bad part, just listen to motors coming from Japan. So far it has not kicked a code like the first time, but I think its very possible it might do it again, exhaust smells even well after warmup, so I guess this head problem may have also affected the converter. I saw the first head when they took it apart . One of the exhaust valves on cylinder #2 was burned,which explained 35% loss of compression in that cylinder. As I posted originally, I wasn't treated really well, given that it is Chryslers fault. They did not offer a loaner vehicle, and held my vehicle up for four days, until I started to raise a stink. I have owned many new American vehicles, this is number 32, and I have to say that while I was really hot on this new Jeep, this after sales experience has cooled my opinions on Chrysler, no, I would not recommend this to a friend.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:03 AM   #2983
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Kindly share some of these posts. As the owner of a Jeep that could potentially have this issue I pay close attention to these threads. I haven't seen any member say the head issue caused damage to the lower end. But maybe I missed it. A miss fire is just that: a miss. A lack of combustion in a cylinder puts much less stress on the piston, rod, crank than the force from normal combustion.
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This was me. after listening to videos all day of the ticking problem. I have decided my jeeps tick is just my injectors. the placebo effect def got me. hope my non professonial diagnostic is right.. Anyone else feel like they fell into this effect?
<<<<<<< this guy! I already made an appointment!!! Driving me NUTS!!!!
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:12 AM   #2984
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<<<<<<< this guy! I already made an appointment!!! Driving me NUTS!!!!
This guy what? Are you saying i shouldnt diagnose my problems myself? My tick isnt near is bad what i hear on youtube videos posted
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:16 AM   #2985
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Update: Now at 18,000 miles, 4,000 after head replacement, tick is back. No this motor nor any motor manufactured in this century should not tick. It was very quiet when it was new and quiet again after the repair. For that matter any sound coming from new motors today, is an indicator of bad design or a bad part, just listen to motors coming from Japan. So far it has not kicked a code like the first time, but I think its very possible it might do it again, exhaust smells even well after warmup, so I guess this head problem may have also affected the converter. I saw the first head when they took it apart . One of the exhaust valves on cylinder #2 was burned,which explained 35% loss of compression in that cylinder. As I posted originally, I wasn't treated really well, given that it is Chryslers fault. They did not offer a loaner vehicle, and held my vehicle up for four days, until I started to raise a stink. I have owned many new American vehicles, this is number 32, and I have to say that while I was really hot on this new Jeep, this after sales experience has cooled my opinions on Chrysler, no, I would not recommend this to a friend.
That sucks! Did you get a cylinder head that ended in the letters AA,AB, or AC?
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:16 AM   #2986
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This guy what? Are you saying i shouldnt diagnose my problems myself? My tick isnt near is bad what i hear on youtube videos posted
He was talking about himself and how he is making himself believe his engine is ticking
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:17 AM   #2987
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He was talking about himself and how he is making himself believe his engine is ticking
Gotcha. Thats what i did. but i did research on my own and found out the injectors in jeeps have their own tick. Just something i am not used to.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:24 AM   #2988
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First post. Long time lurker. Great forum.

Been conducting basic research. Ready to buy sport unlimited once this issue is resolved. Got screwed on nissan failing to fix a factory defect so a little gun shy. Surprusingly long thread. I have not been able to read it all yet.

Has Jeep weighed in on this or do they not participate in this forum?
I had issues with a Ford years ago and decided to wait it out too. I'd rather not take a chance, opinions vary, it's an individual thing. I'd never tell someone to buy or not to buy based on what's going on. Our long time resident Jeep employees haven't commented, sad, but can you blame them? Jeep corporate hasn't commented on the board either, but there were some quotes [from an article or something] a while back, a list of lame excuses for what the cause of the problem could be from.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:31 AM   #2989
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This guy what? Are you saying i shouldnt diagnose my problems myself? My tick isnt near is bad what i hear on youtube videos posted
No. You asked if anyone else is falling into the Paranoia Placebo effect.. and I was telling you I did.. Not that it matters but I will try to upload my video later today.. I am always on this site looking for mod info etc.. and I saw this months and months ago.. I have an early build, and I have always been aware of the problem.. and every once in a while i listen to the engine.. both sides, just to keep an eye on things. I will say it appears as if my MPG has dropped significantly.. I filled up and was just doing errands around town.. and its guzzling the fuel. Again.. could be my paranoia. but ill post the vids and you can see for yourselves. Don't get me wrong the motor does make noise.. sounds like a sewing machine.. but this noise is above and beyond that.. very noticeable
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:36 AM   #2990
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I saw the first head when they took it apart . One of the exhaust valves on cylinder #2 was burned,which explained 35% loss of compression in that cylinder.
Burned as in too hot?
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:37 AM   #2991
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Gotcha. Thats what i did. but i did research on my own and found out the injectors in jeeps have their own tick. Just something i am not used to.
I have 8,300 miles on my Jeep. I made a video at around 300 miles and compared. My engine is no louder now than it was when I got the vehicle.

- I have a 1994 LT1 Camaro and the engine ticks.

- I had a 2005 Subaru WRX STi and the engine ticked.

- I had a 1971 El Camino with a 402ci and the engine ticked.

- My wife has a 2012 Subaru Forester and the engine ticks.

- I have a 2012 Jeep Rubicon and the engine ticks.

See what I'm getting at here? I don't doubt some people are having serious problems, but engines are just noisy; they're MECHANICAL. NEVER, since becoming an avid automotive nut over 20 years ago, have I heard an engine that sounded sewing-machine-smooth. There is ALWAYS going to be noise, whether it's lifter noise, minor exhaust leak noise, intake noise, or injector noise.

While I subscribe to this topic, I rarely post here. It's downright ridiculous how a little tick turns up and people start running around like chickens who just had their heads cut off. More than 90% of the people freaking out probably don't even have an issue. Is the performance suffering? Is the mileage suffering? Is there smoke? Does the oil look milky? Does the antifreeze smell like gasoline? No, none of the above, huh...just a little tick. My Rubicon's engine ticks. I guess I should go get the head replaced.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:03 AM   #2992
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I have 8,300 miles on my Jeep. I made a video at around 300 miles and compared. My engine is no louder now than it was when I got the vehicle.

- I have a 1994 LT1 Camaro and the engine ticks.

- I had a 2005 Subaru WRX STi and the engine ticked.

- I had a 1971 El Camino with a 402ci and the engine ticked.

- My wife has a 2012 Subaru Forester and the engine ticks.

- I have a 2012 Jeep Rubicon and the engine ticks.

See what I'm getting at here? I don't doubt some people are having serious problems, but engines are just noisy; they're MECHANICAL. NEVER, since becoming an avid automotive nut over 20 years ago, have I heard an engine that sounded sewing-machine-smooth. There is ALWAYS going to be noise, whether it's lifter noise, minor exhaust leak noise, intake noise, or injector noise.

While I subscribe to this topic, I rarely post here. It's downright ridiculous how a little tick turns up and people start running around like chickens who just had their heads cut off. More than 90% of the people freaking out probably don't even have an issue. Is the performance suffering? Is the mileage suffering? Is there smoke? Does the oil look milky? Does the antifreeze smell like gasoline? No, none of the above, huh...just a little tick. My Rubicon's engine ticks. I guess I should go get the head replaced.
I actually agree with you. And reading this thread did peak my awareness and get me paranoid about the issue. Do I notice noises and differences my Jeep makes.. Absolutely. Do I check into them and either confirm them or dismiss them.. Absolutely. So I made an appointment at the dealer down the road to check it out... See what he says. If they see no problem, Ill have it documented and then continue to enjoy driving my Jeep. If down the road a CEL pops up or the " noise " gets louder or effects other components significantly.. Ill be down there again. Ultimately there is nothing anyone can do about it. It's a defect, and they are fixing it. I was pissed at first at the possibility of a problem with my $40,000 investment, but I'm Slowly getting over it. They will fix it.. And if im not happy they will keep fixing it.. PERIOD. My opinion is.. Everyone who has or will have this problem will be taken care of. Chrysler is aware of it and will stand behind their product. See.. no one will know the root cause for a while, and that is very understandable in this day and age. You have to be very careful what you say and how you say it.. Things are interpreted very differently.. For christ sakes Coffee cups at fast food places say " HOT " on them.. Shampoo has instructions on the back.. I mean come on.. Sometimes its better to Say nothing then say anything at all. We will know the cause someday. But either way no 2012 wrangler is going to have a poor resale value.. 70% of owners are not enthusiasts and have no clue what's going on.. Im done worrying. On a side note .. My first new vehicle was a 2002 Chevy 2500hd 4x4.. brand spanking new, upon start up it would cackle.. drove me nuts for the first few days.. took it to the dealer and complained.. Bam...1 week later GM sent me a full explanation of the noise along with a certificate for 100,000 mile power train warranty. 127,000 miles later.. not a problem with that motor and it still cackles until warmed up.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:15 AM   #2993
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I have 8,300 miles on my Jeep. I made a video at around 300 miles and compared. My engine is no louder now than it was when I got the vehicle.

- I have a 1994 LT1 Camaro and the engine ticks.

- I had a 2005 Subaru WRX STi and the engine ticked.

- I had a 1971 El Camino with a 402ci and the engine ticked.

- My wife has a 2012 Subaru Forester and the engine ticks.

- I have a 2012 Jeep Rubicon and the engine ticks.

See what I'm getting at here? I don't doubt some people are having serious problems, but engines are just noisy; they're MECHANICAL. NEVER, since becoming an avid automotive nut over 20 years ago, have I heard an engine that sounded sewing-machine-smooth. There is ALWAYS going to be noise, whether it's lifter noise, minor exhaust leak noise, intake noise, or injector noise.

While I subscribe to this topic, I rarely post here. It's downright ridiculous how a little tick turns up and people start running around like chickens who just had their heads cut off. More than 90% of the people freaking out probably don't even have an issue. Is the performance suffering? Is the mileage suffering? Is there smoke? Does the oil look milky? Does the antifreeze smell like gasoline? No, none of the above, huh...just a little tick. My Rubicon's engine ticks. I guess I should go get the head replaced.

Umm, Yes and Yes. This seems to be the end result along with a misfiring cylinder and damage to the rockers and camshaft in the head. Also if you drive for a long time with a cylinder misfiring you are more than likely dumping raw fuel into the converter which will damage it. So its not just noise. It appears the noise is just the begining. The tick you refer to may not be the tick that the people that have the actual problem with the head are hearing. Engines are not meant to be silent, I agree but the issue here is a tick that shouldnt be there not one that is and people are overreacting to. I hope your tick is normal and not one that will develope into a head swap.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:39 AM   #2994
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mine is in the shop. ticking like a son of a B. 6400 miles.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:51 AM   #2995
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Umm, Yes and Yes. This seems to be the end result along with a misfiring cylinder and damage to the rockers and camshaft in the head. Also if you drive for a long time with a cylinder misfiring you are more than likely dumping raw fuel into the converter which will damage it. So its not just noise. It appears the noise is just the begining. The tick you refer to may not be the tick that the people that have the actual problem with the head are hearing. Engines are not meant to be silent, I agree but the issue here is a tick that shouldnt be there not one that is and people are overreacting to. I hope your tick is normal and not one that will develope into a head swap.
Then your vehicle clearly has a problem! I'm talking about people reacting to any little tick he/she hears. I never said or even hinted that people are making it up to get head replacements, I said people are overreacting and most people who think they have an issue are paranoid. By now, Chrysler have probably produced close to 2,000,000 Pentastar engines. There are surely going to be some duds out there. It's not just a Chrysler issue. I know people who own Subarus and Hondas with over 250,000 miles on them, and I also know people who were lucky if they got 100,000 miles out of them. These issues are across the board with ALL manufacturers. Not long ago, GM's Duramax was labeled the "DuraWAX" because they'd burn up whenever towing something heavy.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:07 AM   #2996
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I have an appointment to drop my 12 jku in tonight.I noticed this tick back in August and thought nothing of it until about two weeks ago when it started sounding louder>Not knowing any of this was happenning on this forum I decided to see if anyone else has beed experiencing the same issue. WTF was my first thought when I finally did. I have had several vehicles in the past ,the most recent was a 99 Alero I bought new...as some may know there was a head issue there too...106000 and $ 1800 later. There is no Freaken way I'm lying down and taking this one.I can tell there is a problem with this by the sound IT SHOULD NOT MAKE.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:08 AM   #2997
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OH YEAH build date Feb 12/12
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:09 AM   #2998
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That 106000 is km's by the way. this is Canada
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:12 AM   #2999
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All engines have some degree of tick, these days mostly injector chatter or some minor valvetrain noise on startup, but what many are talking about here does not appear to be the same thing - this is not that kind of tick. I've only heard one bonafide case in person and it was loud...there was no question that something was wrong, no need to listen to YouTube videos or ask someone else what they thought. The owner also said the engine was stumbling which was probably the misfire. I do believe people are generally overly concerned with this but the longer this continues without a proven fix, the more legitimate the concern. And before I'm labeled a troll, or someone snoops around and hyper analyzes my prior posts, I am truly hopeful that the 2013's will be fine. Once I see some 13's with decent miles on them and no reports of head issues, I will likely buy one as our family needs are changing. I know the warranty exists but that's not enough for me. I work my ass off, have a busy family and do not need the hassle of dealing with multiple trips to the dealer....life is too short.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:28 AM   #3000
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Bob Lee, Chrysler's chief of engineering, the malfunctions were the result of "an interaction of a lot of rare things that ultimately come together to affect a small percentage of the population." Those could include different fuel mixes and the way the vehicle is driven, he said, though he did not explain further. "You have to have this fuel characteristic, you have to have this drive cycle--and all of these things have to line up in order to have this situation occur," Lee said. "That's why" the number of potentially affected engines "is so small. If it were a design defect, or if it affected [a basic component] like the integrated exhaust, we'd have issues on everything, which we don't."

Chrysler won’t explain the problem fully at the moment, but complaints filed with NHTSA report a ticking sound from the engine’s left side with stalling, loss of power or misfires coming from cylinder number two. Hmm thats interesting. Back to the above quote: If it were a design defect, or if it affected [a basic component] like the integrated exhaust, we'd have issues on everything, which we don't."


So why did the redesign the head twice?

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