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Old 10-23-2012, 02:04 PM   #3031
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
Does anyone who HAS had there head replaced know if the dealer they went to for repairs had done one in a wrangler, previously to doing yours? I'm hoping that I have a quick resolution in regards to head replacement! Preparing myself for... " sounds normal to me" reading these forums really does make more educated and prepared for any JEEP situation. Also what is the full AC part #? The third revision? Wanna make sure if it goes down I'm getting the correct part!
they weren't specific on whether it was a wrangler or other chrysler before mine, but they had done a couple. it's pretty easy to prove to them it's not normal nowadays. First off, it's a known problem now. the dealers are now in the know. before it was hit and miss.

have them start it up and listen to one side, then the other. this eliminates the "injector noise" excuse. the ticking is at a different frequency anyway

have them start up a '13 and compare it.

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:31 PM   #3032
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well its official new head on order

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:45 PM   #3033
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to be honest, i'm more concerned about my transmission being dropped and torn apart right now than i ever was with my head.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #3034
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Detonation will not cause a valve guide failure. No way, no how.

Pistons, yes, but it has to be some very extreme detonation.
Localized heat easily could. Detonation would be a symtom of the heat and have you ever seen the top of a piston after detonation that was barely audible....... I have and the damage was there. It doesn't take much detonation to cause damage
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #3035
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My 2012 rubicon got the check engine light this weekend at 12,700 miles. my OBD scanner was showing it throwing code P0306 (cylinder 6 misfire).

Called the local dealer, told her my code and that it ticks like a diesel (pretty much always has) and she immediately said it needed a head replacement and to bring it in. Dropped it off this morning and they gave me a rental for the time being. They had 6 of the "newly designed" heads in stock and 3 techs certified on this repair....Should have the Jeep back in a couple days.

I thought I'd tick along but never actually have this problem, but to be honest I'm sort of glad it's being resolved, especially since I've heard horror stories of dealers giving the runaround and mine went straight to the problem. I feel like since that press release they're more apt to fix the head on the front end.

For reference: I use regular gas (rarely premium) and drive easy to save the tires.
They dont stock those heads just for the hell of it. They are expecting to use them.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:38 PM   #3036
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So after being involved in the last 4 pages of discussion on this topic, it's safe to say that .

A. There is no need to wait for a CEL to pop up, because the dealers are aware and are skipping the previous steps and just replacing the head.

B. The head they should be using ends in AC which is the third revision

C. Chrysler is issuing rentals for the down time.

So with all that being said, as long as I'm not put through the ringer.... I'm happy with an Upgraded cylinder head.. Guess I'd rather find out now then 3 years from now. I'm just hoping my engine compartment will look just like it does now.. After I get it back. No un-intentional mistakes while fixing another. What do they do with the oil? I've done two oil changes on mine and the last one switched to Full synthetic Amsoil, all my vehicles run Amsoil.. Do they buy the oil of your choice? Do I provide the oil?
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:42 PM   #3037
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So after being involved in the last 4 pages of discussion on this topic, it's safe to say that .

A. There is no need to wait for a CEL to pop up, because the dealers are aware and are skipping the previous steps and just replacing the head.

B. The head they should be using ends in AC which is the third revision

C. Chrysler is issuing rentals for the down time.

So with all that being said, as long as I'm not put through the ringer.... I'm happy with an Upgraded cylinder head.. Guess I'd rather find out now then 3 years from now. I'm just hoping my engine compartment will look just like it does now.. After I get it back. No un-intentional mistakes while fixing another. What do they do with the oil? I've done two oil changes on mine and the last one switched to Full synthetic Amsoil, all my vehicles run Amsoil.. Do they buy the oil of your choice? Do I provide the oil?
A. as long as you have the tick, your head either has loose lifters or out of spec components (they actually check this), or you fail compression checks.

i don't think they need to change the oil? just the coolant as far as i'm aware.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:47 PM   #3038
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
So after being involved in the last 4 pages of discussion on this topic, it's safe to say that .

A. There is no need to wait for a CEL to pop up, because the dealers are aware and are skipping the previous steps and just replacing the head.

B. The head they should be using ends in AC which is the third revision

C. Chrysler is issuing rentals for the down time.

So with all that being said, as long as I'm not put through the ringer.... I'm happy with an Upgraded cylinder head.. Guess I'd rather find out now then 3 years from now. I'm just hoping my engine compartment will look just like it does now.. After I get it back. No un-intentional mistakes while fixing another. What do they do with the oil? I've done two oil changes on mine and the last one switched to Full synthetic Amsoil, all my vehicles run Amsoil.. Do they buy the oil of your choice? Do I provide the oil?
That is a big concern for me. I mentioned here before that I had a brand new BMW that threw a ABS light on the way home from picking it up from the dealer. A month (yes a whole month) later I got it back with a big scratch in the deck lid. Needless to say I went apesh*t.

As far as the oil goes. I dont know if they would change the oil for a head change. As long as no coolant is mixing with the oil I dont see why they would change the oil.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:12 PM   #3039
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Ok, I thought I saw another post that said they noted the Mopar oil filter was used and that the oil was changed after installation. Guess this will be one of my questions on Friday morning. Lucy Brown, Im like you, things like that worry me.. and it seems like the people who worry.. shit always happens to. I know the Tech that works at the dealer Im going to.. so much that he said if I ever have any questions to please feel free to call him. So I did.. and Im sure he will take care of me.. I have made a point to request him on other jobs and even got him in on Saturdays to make some extra money. So I have established a good relationship with him. Im even down to throw him a $50 spot and tell him to take his wife out for a bite to eat.. just make sure my wrangler is PERFECT when your done.. I mean PERFECT.. no little clips broken .. all the wires loomed correctly.. no greasy fingerprints all over my hood.. I want a professional job done.. Just as if I was doing it myself. And Im being dead serious... Im not asking him to do MORE than he should..... just make it right... which is perfect. Dude if there was a scratch on my jeep afterwards I would have been beyond ape Sh*t... I hate what quality is becoming in this world.. everything is always good enough with people.. its really a shame... I guess when it all comes down to it.. its gotta get fixed... just gotta make sure you get the right person to make it good.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:16 PM   #3040
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Localized heat easily could. Detonation would be a symtom of the heat and have you ever seen the top of a piston after detonation that was barely audible....... I have and the damage was there. It doesn't take much detonation to cause damage
Still not buying it. Heat can be a factor to a degree I suppose, but the primary causes for a valve guide failure are clearance and/or valvetrain geometry issues. I'd love to get my hands on one of these failed heads.

I've seen many a detonation-caused piston failure in various forced induction, motorcycle, and snowmobile engines. I overhaul engines as a sideline (day job as a lowly mechanical engineer)...
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:16 PM   #3041
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
So after being involved in the last 4 pages of discussion on this topic, it's safe to say that .

A. There is no need to wait for a CEL to pop up, because the dealers are aware and are skipping the previous steps and just replacing the head.

B. The head they should be using ends in AC which is the third revision

C. Chrysler is issuing rentals for the down time.

So with all that being said, as long as I'm not put through the ringer.... I'm happy with an Upgraded cylinder head.. Guess I'd rather find out now then 3 years from now. I'm just hoping my engine compartment will look just like it does now.. After I get it back. No un-intentional mistakes while fixing another. What do they do with the oil? I've done two oil changes on mine and the last one switched to Full synthetic Amsoil, all my vehicles run Amsoil.. Do they buy the oil of your choice? Do I provide the oil?
I would say no, you must have an 0302 fault code AND low compression before the dealer can ask for authorization from Chrysler to change the head. W/O both, if the dealer changes a head they are doing it on their dime. When you take your Jeep in, the service write up person will input your VIN in the service computer. If your Jeep is in the suspect population the Tech Tip will tell them to look for the fault code and check your compression. After that, they will ask for authorization to change the head, which is likely a given at this point.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:26 PM   #3042
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I would say no, you must have an 0302 fault code AND low compression before the dealer can ask for authorization from Chrysler to change the head. W/O both, if the dealer changes a head they are doing it on their dime. When you take your Jeep in, the service write up person will input your VIN in the service computer. If your Jeep is in the suspect population the Tech Tip will tell them to look for the fault code and check your compression. After that, they will ask for authorization to change the head, which is likely a given at this point.
this is not correct. you do not need a code. you need symptoms such as ticking, poor idle, mileage, whatever. then they pull the valve cover and check that the head is within spec. all as per chrysler's instructions. any head job has to be authorized by chysler. nothing is on the dealer's dime.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:31 PM   #3043
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Still not buying it. Heat can be a factor to a degree I suppose, but the primary causes for a valve guide failure are clearance and/or valvetrain geometry issues. I'd love to get my hands on one of these failed heads.

I've seen many a detonation-caused piston failure in various forced induction, motorcycle, and snowmobile engines. I overhaul engines as a sideline (day job as a lowly mechanical engineer)...
I make records but build motors as a hobby I've built stuff like old Harley Ironhead strokers to 383 LS6 strokers making 550+ HP I consider myself a motorhead to a degree. I agree about clearance or geometry issues but heat can definitely be a major factor as well as lack of lubricant from stem to guide. I wonder if these powdered metal, non servicable guides prematurely wear with excessive heat. I'll bet my last dollar that if the guides were press fit iron guides like an old Ironhead Sportster, there would be no guide failures.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:36 PM   #3044
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this is not correct. you do not need a code. you need symptoms such as ticking, poor idle, mileage, whatever. then they pull the valve cover and check that the head is within spec. all as per chrysler's instructions. any head job has to be authorized by chysler. nothing is on the dealer's dime.
The Tech Tip is specific, fault code and low compression. Then get authorization to change the head. IF the dealer doesn't follow the TT they have to get authorization to replace the head for some other reason, or the work will be on their dime.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:36 PM   #3045
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I just came back from my paint supplier and was talking with a guy with a 2012 JKU Sport he had parked in the lot. It was sharp! I asked him if the engine was ticking, he said yes, and burning oil too. He was unaware of the Pentastar tick, and didn't have a CEL, yet. I told him about this board and to Google "Pentastar Tick", he thanked me and let me listen to his engine. It did not sound good, he said he was not happy with the sound of it, or the oil burning. He was going to bring it back for that, I wished him luck. I told him oil burning is one tough issue to get a dealer to do anything about unless it is really guzzling oil. Some dealers say a qt/1000 miles is acceptable, others say even less.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:40 PM   #3046
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I make records but build motors as a hobby I've built stuff like old Harley Ironhead strokers to 383 LS6 strokers making 550+ HP I consider myself a motorhead to a degree. I agree about clearance or geometry issues but heat can definitely be a major factor as well as lack of lubricant from stem to guide. I wonder if these powdered metal, non servicable guides prematurely wear with excessive heat. I'll bet my last dollar that if the guides were press fit iron guides like an old Ironhead Sportster, there would be no guide failures.

I've done my fair share of engine work too. I'm willing to bet heat is playing a part, as well as the non-serviceable guides. Press fit guides IMO would help, along with an exhaust manifold that is not part of the head. Yes that design works for some companies, but it isn't working for Chrysler.
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Old 10-23-2012, 04:57 PM   #3047
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Right or wrong, Chryslers talk of fuel mixes and driving characteristics makes me think the issue is combustion or heat related.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:18 PM   #3048
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I'm thinking about adding some Redline "Water Wetter" to the coolant. It's proven to drop temperatures' by as much as 10 degrees in the cylinder heads
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:29 PM   #3049
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Right or wrong, Chryslers talk of fuel mixes and driving characteristics makes me think the issue is combustion or heat related.
That can easily be fixed by simply never starting the engine....which might just be Chrysler's next response.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:30 PM   #3050
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I'm thinking about adding some Redline "Water Wetter" to the coolant. It's proven to drop temperatures' by as much as 10 degrees in the cylinder heads
I used water wetter in my Viper, it seemed to lower the coolant temp for a while. Never had any problems while using it, but don't currently use any.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:38 PM   #3051
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Right or wrong, Chryslers talk of fuel mixes and driving characteristics makes me think the issue is combustion or heat related.

Bob Lee, Chryslers chief of engineering states that the issue is not related to the V-6′s merged exhaust outlet design.

The Pentastar engine has an unusual design. The engine's exhaust passages merge into a single outlet in the aluminum cylinder heads before exiting to the exhaust manifold. Most modern engine designs send hot exhaust gases in separate passages in the head to the exhaust manifold.
Bob Lee, Chrysler's chief of engineering, said, however, that excessive heat was not a factor in the malfunction and that his engineering teams spent months isolating its causes.

Seems to me that merging the outlets would create more heat.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #3052
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Man o Man.. I guess its not going to hurt to bring it down to the dealer. Im starting to second guess myself.. if i even have the " Tick " at all. I did video the Jeep after warm up just for my own reference. Ill try to post it on here. You guys be the judge. And believe me I am aware there is Mechanical noise.. let me see if I can attach a link.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:47 PM   #3053
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we've been back and forth over 100 pages with speculation. there's really no point until we get word from someone in the know. mine had a very slight tick from 9 miles on it which grew into a definite tick by 1000 miles. that's in less than 3 tanks of gas. something was wrong in the engine from day 1. Some people have 20k miles with no issues, so i'm not really on the heat bandwagon. they all pretty much run at the same temperature unless you're constantly blasting up and down hills. There's a defect that is only present in some wranglers.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:48 PM   #3054
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Man o Man.. I guess its not going to hurt to bring it down to the dealer. Im starting to second guess myself.. if i even have the " Tick " at all. I did video the Jeep after warm up just for my own reference. Ill try to post it on here. You guys be the judge. And believe me I am aware there is Mechanical noise.. let me see if I can attach a link.
post it to youtube, then link it here.
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Old 10-23-2012, 05:56 PM   #3055
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Does anyone know the real difference between the AB and AC rev. Is it really an Engineering design change? I have a 13 Jk, BD 08/06/12 so I'm guessing, hoping I have AB. Now the AC is the new part. I was talking to my SM at my dealer. He said the rev change could be a caused by using new vendor or ANY spec change on the head and does no mean for certain that its a total redesign. My point is I waited for the 13's to come out because of this issue. Now one month into production the rev. Changes. Are there any confirmed failures of the AB? Lastly have 800 miles and have been using Hess 87 oct. I just switched to Mobil 87 oct hoping its a better quality fuel. Has anyone asked what fuel plays into this whole mess?
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:03 PM   #3056
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we've been back and forth over 100 pages with speculation. there's really no point until we get word from someone in the know. mine had a very slight tick from 9 miles on it which grew into a definite tick by 1000 miles. that's in less than 3 tanks of gas. something was wrong in the engine from day 1. Some people have 20k miles with no issues, so i'm not really on the heat bandwagon. they all pretty much run at the same temperature unless you're constantly blasting up and down hills. There's a defect that is only present in some wranglers.
If there is a defect present on only a small percentage I'd say it's a bad run of heads. Something went amiss during the stamping process. If thats true then why would they redesign the head. Wouldnt they just say there was a manufactering defect and not a design defect. The fix is to replace the bad head with a properly made head. Chrysler however is saying the redesigned they head not once but twice. Well if they had to redesign the head wouldnt they ALL have to be replaced? Something doesnt make sensse here.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:05 PM   #3057
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Ok here we go guys.. hope the link works.. let me know what you fellow Jeepers think. Paranoia or Pentastar Tick 3.6 Pentastar Tick - YouTube
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:08 PM   #3058
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Ok here we go guys.. hope the link works.. let me know what you fellow Jeepers think. Paranoia or Pentastar Tick 3.6 Pentastar Tick - YouTube
You my friend will have an appointment with the dealer to have your head replaced in the near future.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:31 PM   #3059
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I'm thinking about adding some Redline "Water Wetter" to the coolant. It's proven to drop temperatures' by as much as 10 degrees in the cylinder heads
You should check into it, IIRC Water Wetter is to be added to distilled water, not coolant. Check before you add it to be sure.
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Old 10-23-2012, 06:33 PM   #3060
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Ok here we go guys.. hope the link works.. let me know what you fellow Jeepers think. Paranoia or Pentastar Tick 3.6 Pentastar Tick - YouTube
yours is pretty mild, but it'll get worse. It sounds like your camera has noise suppression on it, so it's harder to tell. Mine was similar at 1600 miles:

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