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Old 10-23-2012, 07:34 PM   #3061
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recorded it with my iphone 4s.. the tick seems more pronounced on the video than in person. its making me second guess myself. Thanks for checking it out.

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Old 10-23-2012, 07:36 PM   #3062
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
recorded it with my iphone 4s.. the tick seems more pronounced on the video than in person. its making me second guess myself. Thanks for checking it out.
after watching yours several times i'm not sure you have a problem. here's my after i got a new head video.


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Old 10-23-2012, 07:37 PM   #3063
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Originally Posted by Lucy Brown

You my friend will have an appointment with the dealer to have your head replaced in the near future.
Lucy, you have made 24 posts in the last 18 pages. Going from "wanting to learn before you buy" to spreading the hysteria. I suggest you go back to "learning" mode.
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:52 PM   #3064
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Originally Posted by demarpaint View Post
You should check into it, IIRC Water Wetter is to be added to distilled water, not coolant. Check before you add it to be sure.
50/50 mix works well
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Old 10-23-2012, 07:53 PM   #3065
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Originally Posted by Con Artist

I have 8,300 miles on my Jeep. I made a video at around 300 miles and compared. My engine is no louder now than it was when I got the vehicle.

- I have a 1994 LT1 Camaro and the engine ticks.

- I had a 2005 Subaru WRX STi and the engine ticked.

- I had a 1971 El Camino with a 402ci and the engine ticked.

- My wife has a 2012 Subaru Forester and the engine ticks.

- I have a 2012 Jeep Rubicon and the engine ticks.

See what I'm getting at here? I don't doubt some people are having serious problems, but engines are just noisy; they're MECHANICAL. NEVER, since becoming an avid automotive nut over 20 years ago, have I heard an engine that sounded sewing-machine-smooth. There is ALWAYS going to be noise, whether it's lifter noise, minor exhaust leak noise, intake noise, or injector noise.

While I subscribe to this topic, I rarely post here. It's downright ridiculous how a little tick turns up and people start running around like chickens who just had their heads cut off. More than 90% of the people freaking out probably don't even have an issue. Is the performance suffering? Is the mileage suffering? Is there smoke? Does the oil look milky? Does the antifreeze smell like gasoline? No, none of the above, huh...just a little tick. My Rubicon's engine ticks. I guess I should go get the head replaced.
I would agree, but this also is diagnosed with a cylinder misfire.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:03 PM   #3066
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Originally Posted by stans1stjeep View Post
Lucy, you have made 24 posts in the last 18 pages. Going from "wanting to learn before you buy" to spreading the hysteria. I suggest you go back to "learning" mode.
Actually I have done quite of bit of research on this matter. I even went down to my local dealer and spoke with a service advisor and a couple of techs. If you dont like it you can just block me if you dont want to see my posts. I'm not breaking the terms of use on this site so either deal with it or like I said just block me. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:11 PM   #3067
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after watching yours several times i'm not sure you have a problem. here's my after i got a new head video.

See watching your video.. In my opinion the " after video" your passenger side, sounds like my drivers side and vice versa. I'll check both your videos out again when I get home. The before video, is that right before you took it in for diagnosis/ replacement? What's even stranger is the noise appears to change. It's more noticeable after running for a few minutes.. Upon start up the idle increases... Then slowly makes its way down to normal idle.. Then you can really hear better.
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:27 PM   #3068
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
See watching your video.. In my opinion the " after video" your passenger side, sounds like my drivers side and vice versa. I'll check both your videos out again when I get home. The before video, is that right before you took it in for diagnosis/ replacement? What's even stranger is the noise appears to change. It's more noticeable after running for a few minutes.. Upon start up the idle increases... Then slowly makes its way down to normal idle.. Then you can really hear better.
Hi,

Since i'm from Jersey as ell you mind telling me where you bought your jeep from? If you worried about the dealer giving you hassle I would suggest taking it to my dealership. I took mine in and within hours they called me up and told me they were putting on a new head. With no CEL either. Spoke to them after and was told that they had done quite a few pentastar wranglers for ticking.

Nielsen dodge in hanover nj
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:33 PM   #3069
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Hi,

Since i'm from Jersey as ell you mind telling me where you bought your jeep from? If you worried about the dealer giving you hassle I would suggest taking it to my dealership. I took mine in and within hours they called me up and told me they were putting on a new head. With no CEL either. Spoke to them after and was told that they had done quite a few pentastar wranglers for ticking.

Nielsen dodge in hanover nj
I ordered my Jeep from a dealer in Hazlet NJ.. I was working up north at the time ( sept-October) of last year.. However I live in Southern NJ 5 mins outside of Ocean City. Thanks for your input I appreciate it! If things don't go we'll.. I'll have to weigh my options.. Who knows they might tell me there's nothing wrong! I'll find out on Friday @ 8am
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Old 10-23-2012, 08:42 PM   #3070
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Originally Posted by johnnyjellybean View Post
I'm thinking about adding some Redline "Water Wetter" to the coolant. It's proven to drop temperatures' by as much as 10 degrees in the cylinder heads
Is Water Wetter compatible with the HOAT coolant specified by Chrysler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Brown View Post
Bob Lee, Chryslers chief of engineering states that the issue is not related to the V-6′s merged exhaust outlet design.

The Pentastar engine has an unusual design. The engine's exhaust passages merge into a single outlet in the aluminum cylinder heads before exiting to the exhaust manifold. Most modern engine designs send hot exhaust gases in separate passages in the head to the exhaust manifold.
Bob Lee, Chrysler's chief of engineering, said, however, that excessive heat was not a factor in the malfunction and that his engineering teams spent months isolating its causes.

Seems to me that merging the outlets would create more heat.
Not sure about creating more heat but it would concentrate the heat in a localized area near the exhaust opening.

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If there is a defect present on only a small percentage I'd say it's a bad run of heads. Something went amiss during the stamping process. If thats true then why would they redesign the head. Wouldnt they just say there was a manufactering defect and not a design defect. The fix is to replace the bad head with a properly made head. Chrysler however is saying the redesigned they head not once but twice. Well if they had to redesign the head wouldnt they ALL have to be replaced? Something doesnt make sensse here.
And Chrysler's use of the term "design" is subject to interpretation. Are the new designs the result of an engineering flaw, a casting flaw, machining flaw, etc?
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:05 PM   #3071
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Detonation will not cause a valve guide failure. No way, no how.

Pistons, yes, but it has to be some very extreme detonation.
well actually I think it can in as much as it can cause excessive heat which can cause valve guides to drop out of the heads. I have seen it happen when too much heat build up in a head, of course it was in an air cooled harley.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:20 PM   #3072
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well actually I think it can in as much as it can cause excessive heat which can cause valve guides to drop out of the heads. I have seen it happen when too much heat build up in a head, of course it was in an air cooled harley.
From overheating? Yes.

Known fact that late-model H-Ds run hot because of the lean tuning required to meet emissions. So much so that the rear cylinder will be deactivated when excessively hot so that "dead" air (no fuel in the charge) can be cycled to help cool things down.

Detonation? No.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:20 PM   #3073
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Is Water Wetter compatible with the HOAT coolant specified by Chrysler?



Not sure about creating more heat but it would concentrate the heat in a localized area near the exhaust opening.



And Chrysler's use of the term "design" is subject to interpretation. Are the new designs the result of an engineering flaw, a casting flaw, machining flaw, etc?
Good point, I agree. Out of the three you mentioned I'd have to lean toward the last two, casting or machining. It would be the most common problem in mass producing a part.
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:30 PM   #3074
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Is Water Wetter compatible with the HOAT coolant specified by Chrysler?
According to Redline............ yes
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Old 10-23-2012, 09:58 PM   #3075
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Again does anyone know a tech that works on theses engines that can verify the diffidence between the AA, AB, , AC
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:03 PM   #3076
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From overheating? Yes.

Known fact that late-model H-Ds run hot because of the lean tuning required to meet emissions. So much so that the rear cylinder will be deactivated when excessively hot so that "dead" air (no fuel in the charge) can be cycled to help cool things down.

Detonation? No.
Detonation and heat go hand in hand. Detonation causes heat. some good reading here.............
Engine Basics: Detonation and Pre-Ignition by Allen W. Cline
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:17 PM   #3077
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2 Questions / Observations

1 - I think the numbers of bad heads are quite a bit larger than Chrysler is admitting. I've noticed that 2 people I know didn't know about the ticking engine issue and haven't contacted the dealer up to the point I mentioned this forum and thread to them. I also noticed someone, earlier today, had a similar experience.

2 - the main reason I purchased the new Pentastar motor Wrangler was because of the substantial increase in horsepower and torque over the previous engine. This was one of Jeep's new selling points when the 2012 was introduced. I read an article on the new Jeep in Motor Trend (I think) and they raved about the much needed horsepower increase in the new motor. This article also helped sway my thoughts of purchasing new versus the older model. So, if the consumer loses one cylinder to a design flaw, then one would think that loss of power should be enough concern to Jeep to make things right, correct?
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Old 10-23-2012, 10:41 PM   #3078
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2 Questions / Observations

1 - I think the numbers of bad heads are quite a bit larger than Chrysler is admitting. I've noticed that 2 people I know didn't know about the ticking engine issue and haven't contacted the dealer up to the point I mentioned this forum and thread to them. I also noticed someone, earlier today, had a similar experience.

2 - the main reason I purchased the new Pentastar motor Wrangler was because of the substantial increase in horsepower and torque over the previous engine. This was one of Jeep's new selling points when the 2012 was introduced. I read an article on the new Jeep in Motor Trend (I think) and they raved about the much needed horsepower increase in the new motor. This article also helped sway my thoughts of purchasing new versus the older model. So, if the consumer loses one cylinder to a design flaw, then one would think that loss of power should be enough concern to Jeep to make things right, correct?
Chrysler has issued Tech Tip to the dealers, identifying the suspect population, identifying the diagnostic procedure and identifying the service procedure. With the Tech Tip to dealers Chrysler has acknowledged that a problem exists, and how to fix it. When you take your Wrangler to your dealer for service, the service adviser will input you VIN and the service system will identify whether your Jeep is in the suspect population. From there they will run the diagnostic procedure to see if a head replacement is required .
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Old 10-23-2012, 11:09 PM   #3079
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Originally Posted by stans1stjeep

Chrysler has issued Tech Tip to the dealers, identifying the suspect population, identifying the diagnostic procedure and identifying the service procedure. With the Tech Tip to dealers Chrysler has acknowledged that a problem exists, and how to fix it. When you take your Wrangler to your dealer for service, the service adviser will input you VIN and the service system will identify whether your Jeep is in the suspect population. From there they will run the diagnostic procedure to see if a head replacement is required .
Thanks for the advice and response.
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:18 AM   #3080
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i had little ticking , just one day the cel light came on. dealer ran code, did leak down test and confirmed it was the head.

amazingly it took only 5 days to get the head and had it replaced in one day.

all is well now. dealer said they got so good at doing the heads now from all they have done that they can bang them out much quicker then they did in the beginning where it took them 2 days to finish.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #3081
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dealer said they got so good at doing the heads now from all they have done that they can bang them out much quicker then they did in the beginning where it took them 2 days to finish.
How encouraging - they've done so many they have the procedure down to a science.....

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Old 10-24-2012, 07:41 AM   #3082
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How encouraging - they've done so many they have the procedure down to a science.....

ROFL. Yeahp. Glad someone else can read between the lines too. There's a definite problem with the design and it will get most if not all of us at some point. Not really bothering me but sweeping the issue under the carpet and telling people to stop spreading hysteria isn't helping anything either when it's pretty clear to anyone capable of logic at this point that the problem goes well beyond a small run of heads installed on a select few vehicles.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:45 AM   #3083
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Well, you know, doing anything on a vehicle takes twice as long the first time it is done. Replacing a head is no great deal, can't see an experienced Mechanic taking 2 days (above Post) to do it.

By comparison, replacing the rear engine oil seal requires the dropping of the transmission and takes about 5 hours to complete the job.

Sounds like too many coffee breaks or a service rep shooting the breeze (they are good at that).

Talked with a guy, I know, at the Parts Counter at a local Chrysler Dealership a couple days back. I asked in they were bringing in lots of cylinder heads for the Pentastar. He said "For a while, yes, but not many these days". Sounds like the problem is levelling out.
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:33 AM   #3084
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Chrysler has issued Tech Tip to the dealers, identifying the suspect population, identifying the diagnostic procedure and identifying the service procedure. With the Tech Tip to dealers Chrysler has acknowledged that a problem exists, and how to fix it. When you take your Wrangler to your dealer for service, the service adviser will input you VIN and the service system will identify whether your Jeep is in the suspect population. From there they will run the diagnostic procedure to see if a head replacement is required .
Stan, thanks for all your info and guidance on this topic, huge huge help. My question to you is... Am I asking the dealer to run my VIN and see if the Tech Tip is attached to it? Or do I ask them to bring up the Tech Tip # and see if my VIN pertains to that? I asked them yesterday if there were any TSB's or red flags attached to my VIN... They said no. I'm starting to think I've been taken over by the Hysteria..
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Old 10-24-2012, 08:36 AM   #3085
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Well, you know, doing anything on a vehicle takes twice as long the first time it is done. Replacing a head is no great deal, can't see an experienced Mechanic taking 2 days (above Post) to do it.

By comparison, replacing the rear engine oil seal requires the dropping of the transmission and takes about 5 hours to complete the job.

Sounds like too many coffee breaks or a service rep shooting the breeze (they are good at that).

Talked with a guy, I know, at the Parts Counter at a local Chrysler Dealership a couple days back. I asked in they were bringing in lots of cylinder heads for the Pentastar. He said "For a while, yes, but not many these days". Sounds like the problem is levelling out.
To me that sounds like its a manufacturing defect not a design defect which is good news for many. Hope I'm right.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:22 AM   #3086
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Just got off the phone with my dealer, gave them my VIN.. He said there was tech tips associated with performance and steps to take to diagnose it, Re-flash...etc.. I also gave him the TT-400-2479 and he said it didn't come up.. I think in your earlier post Stan you had 900-2479.. Nothing came up either. He said Tech Tips are usually three numbers followed by two and then four numbers like this 123-45-6789.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:35 AM   #3087
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:59 AM   #3088
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Still not buying it. Heat can be a factor to a degree I suppose, but the primary causes for a valve guide failure are clearance and/or valvetrain geometry issues. I'd love to get my hands on one of these failed heads.

I've seen many a detonation-caused piston failure in various forced induction, motorcycle, and snowmobile engines. I overhaul engines as a sideline (day job as a lowly mechanical engineer)...
Detonation can be a byproduct of localized heat issue at cylinder #2. Many reports of burnt exhaust valve on #2, and low compression as a result. Let's face it race fans this is a heat issue.

Leaky exhaust valve will expose valve guide to spent exhaust. Lubricated contact surfaces can fail where excessive heat is causing lubrication to fail.

Seems to me Chrysler is going out of it's way to deny design flaw and it's broader more costly implication.

Integtated exhaust manifold? I can't see how that's a good idea. A discreet manifold is a heat sink, seperate and insulated from head. Spent gas goes from each individual exhaust valve directily into a seperate heat sinking componant. Integrated design keeps spent gas in head longer, and heat is not insulated from head structure by sinking componant.

Combined with added back pressure on the left side due to loop d loop design? If so localized heat build should have been caught in design, and Chrysler dropped the ball on this one.

On a more positive note I don't see why the head couldn't be redesigned to have greater heat sinking by adding wall thickness and improving flow where possible.
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:09 AM   #3089
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17
Just got off the phone with my dealer, gave them my VIN.. He said there was tech tips associated with performance and steps to take to diagnose it, Re-flash...etc.. I also gave him the TT-400-2479 and he said it didn't come up.. I think in your earlier post Stan you had 900-2479.. Nothing came up either. He said Tech Tips are usually three numbers followed by two and then four numbers like this 123-45-6789.
900-2479 is the number I got from my dealer when I gave them my vin. I'll check back & see if I misunderstood her.
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Old 10-24-2012, 11:38 AM   #3090
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Chrysler did a lot of testing on this engine, including some by Roush Industries (Ford Guys in NASCAR). That ticking problem should have reared its ugly head then unless the head has been modified slightly since or it's a manufacturing defect. I suspect a bit of both.

Are those with automatic transmissions having this problem much or is it mainly the manual transmission/Pentastar combination?

Doesn't take much to mess up an engine including those hot spark plugs some like to use.

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