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Old 03-18-2013, 08:58 AM   #4411
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Sorry to jump into the discussion so late, but I just found this forum about a week ago when I decided to buy a 2013 Wrangler. I haven't picked it up yet (hopefully today), but obviously I'm concerned about this. How do you identify what head (AA, AB AC....etc.) you have? Thank you very much!

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Old 03-18-2013, 09:02 AM   #4412
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Page 107 of this thread shows show to make the ID. Explains it better than I can.

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Old 03-18-2013, 09:04 AM   #4413
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Update: (although it's not much of one..). My case manager at ISG won't call me back. Jeep says they can't help me because they are no longer in charge of my case. Dealership won't allow me to make an appointment because the last repair was supposed to be the "final repair." I even called the bank who financed my loan to ask what my options were: she suggested I bring the vehicle to AutoZone and have them turn off the CEL so I can more money on a trade than I would if the CEL was on.

I have a contact person at the attorney general's office, thanks to my job. I'll give them a call on Monday and see what they say, and then I guess make an appointment with my own personal attorney to see what my options are.

As a side-note: my ex-husband had an FJ - yes, it has the Toyo quality and probably will run forever. But it's nowhere near as fun as a wrangler and the visibility in that thing was terrible due to window placement. I wouldn't recommend. I'll probably just go all "soccer mom" and get an Outback. My dogs will like it at least.

this is terrible news. i really hope you get this worked out.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:29 AM   #4414
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Page 107 of this thread shows show to make the ID. Explains it better than I can.
Actually it's page 108, but I found it. You saved me a whole lotta time and for that I thank you!
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:43 AM   #4415
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^Glad you found it.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:07 PM   #4416
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All car makers have their issues... Let's just worry about the heads for Chrysler....

Are AC heads still tick free? That is all care about.
Thank you, I agree, though some a little more than others. I will however stick to the topic of Pentastar heads.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:10 PM   #4417
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Sorry to jump into the discussion so late, but I just found this forum about a week ago when I decided to buy a 2013 Wrangler. I haven't picked it up yet (hopefully today), but obviously I'm concerned about this. How do you identify what head (AA, AB AC....etc.) you have? Thank you very much!
That would be a good question to ask prior to pick it up at the dealership. I think it is something important to know.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:56 PM   #4418
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An awful lot of mental gymnastics to defend domestic auto manufactures and criticizing foreign isn't it? And what is your problem with Toyota is it that I owned a couple of Lexus and a toyo here in this debate? As I said I have no brand loyalty but do read consumer reports. BTW I did not write the CR evaluations . In other words don't hate the messenger.

So you do not buy the investigation by the NHTSB or NASA that the acceleration was operator error. Funny or is it a toyo floor mat that was the problem like you said before. Which is ridiculous if the mats are installed correctly.

You spent a good deal of time researching toyo recalls while I'm happy to see you doing that now how about taking a look at the recalls from the domestic manufactures and share what you find.

In reading the recalls I notice toyo contacting the consumers. Wonder why Chrysler did not contact us regarding the head failure?

This sounds like you have a horse in this race?
I do have brand loyalty and have the greatest time with my jeeps. Lets get along now...
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Old 03-18-2013, 04:03 PM   #4419
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I do have brand loyalty and have the greatest time with my jeeps. Lets get along now...
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:47 PM   #4420
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Google: 3.6 pentastar problems

It is a real eye opener.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:04 PM   #4421
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Erin - I went back and reread your original post. I was curious how your case ended up in arbitration with ISG?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:52 PM   #4422
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...Are AC heads still tick free? That is all care about.
x2 I would like to get mine fixed but only want to do it once if possible
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #4423
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Talked to the service manager of another dealer today and he mentioned issues with lifters separate of the issue with the heads. He told me to bring it in and they will take care of it. I will drop it of I'm a week or so.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:06 AM   #4424
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Erin - I went back and reread your original post. I was curious how your case ended up in arbitration with ISG?
I'm not 100% sure. Week before last, I had contact with Alicia at Jeep. She referred me to Zack, also at Jeep. He contacted me that night and told me my case manager would be Cooper - the only reason I know it's ISG is because that's what it says when I call...

I spoke with Cooper yesterday - he asked if my Jeep had gone in yet for service, or if I was driving it. I reminded him that I had told him last week (week before?) that the dealer wouldn't allow me to make an appointment because they were told last time it was the 'final repair' and I would need authorization from Jeep. I could hear him furiously typing in the background as he was saying 'I'm sending another email to my district manager right now!' I also filed a complaint with the AGO - someone here pointed out that the first and second repairs were before 15,000 miles, so I might be covered under Lemon Law. And, I have an appointment with a private attorney tomorrow morning.

Anyway - long answer to a short question!
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #4425
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I'm not 100% sure. Week before last, I had contact with Alicia at Jeep. She referred me to Zack, also at Jeep. He contacted me that night and told me my case manager would be Cooper - the only reason I know it's ISG is because that's what it says when I call...

I spoke with Cooper yesterday - he asked if my Jeep had gone in yet for service, or if I was driving it. I reminded him that I had told him last week (week before?) that the dealer wouldn't allow me to make an appointment because they were told last time it was the 'final repair' and I would need authorization from Jeep. I could hear him furiously typing in the background as he was saying 'I'm sending another email to my district manager right now!' I also filed a complaint with the AGO - someone here pointed out that the first and second repairs were before 15,000 miles, so I might be covered under Lemon Law. And, I have an appointment with a private attorney tomorrow morning.

Anyway - long answer to a short question!

May I ask you, how is it that the drive train has a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty and they are denying you warranty coverage? I have never heard of a "final repair", and am not aware it states that anywhere in the warranty document, which is your contract with Chrysler.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:09 PM   #4426
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Update: (although it's not much of one..). My case manager at ISG won't call me back. Jeep says they can't help me because they are no longer in charge of my case. Dealership won't allow me to make an appointment because the last repair was supposed to be the "final repair." I even called the bank who financed my loan to ask what my options were: she suggested I bring the vehicle to AutoZone and have them turn off the CEL so I can more money on a trade than I would if the CEL was on.

I have a contact person at the attorney general's office, thanks to my job. I'll give them a call on Monday and see what they say, and then I guess make an appointment with my own personal attorney to see what my options are.

As a side-note: my ex-husband had an FJ - yes, it has the Toyo quality and probably will run forever. But it's nowhere near as fun as a wrangler and the visibility in that thing was terrible due to window placement. I wouldn't recommend. I'll probably just go all "soccer mom" and get an Outback. My dogs will like it at least.
Print this out and give it to the dealer.

Case Number: S1209000022
Release Date: 10/16/2012
Symptom/Vehicle Issue: Identifying Service Replacement Cylinder Heads
Diagnosis:
3.6L cylinders have been improved for durability by upgrading the valve seat and valve guide material. In order to verify that the latest upgrade is incorporated in to the cylinder head received from service parts verify the part number and Julian build date of the cylinder head
Part Number- RL141353AC or higher - left side head
Part Number -RL141352AD or higher– right side head
And a Julian build date of 2062 (206th of 2012) or higher .The build date is stamped on the outboard side of head at the center just below the rocker cover sealing rail
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #4427
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Never, EVER mention the word lawyer to your case worker. The second you do it is their job to cease all contact with you and close the case for legal reasons.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:57 PM   #4428
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Never, EVER mention the word lawyer to your case worker. The second you do it is their job to cease all contact with you and close the case for legal reasons.
Great info! Then a little make'em feel good BS. Tell them that you are reaching out to them for help, because you believe in Chrysler products, and that's why you contacted them. Make them feel they're important and you that trust them. But if you threaten them with legal action all bets are off for them helping you! That's saved for when all else has failed.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:51 PM   #4429
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Add my 2012 JKU Sahara to the Ticking/Head issue. Build date November '11. Thanks to the Wrangler Forum I knew this day would come, but didn't realize I'd still have to explain what is already a well known defect to the Service Dept. The lifter is bent at this point, asked them to go back and make sure they correct all the defects and write down that I said I have heard it's more than a lifter problem.

Thanks Blastek - I will give that info to the dealer rep who picks me up today... so he can get me a rental car. Side bar - yet another dealership that tried to get me to pay for the rental car - like it's my issue.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:27 PM   #4430
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It amazes me how little people realize how important their jobs are to their daily lives and why kicking ass at work ensures a stable life out of work. If I were a dealer service manager I'd be head hunting Chrysler to get answers and get the right warranty work for my customers.

Sorry to vent, it just disgusts me how lazy and unappreciative these service dept people are with their jobs.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:42 PM   #4431
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May I ask you, how is it that the drive train has a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty and they are denying you warranty coverage? I have never heard of a "final repair", and am not aware it states that anywhere in the warranty document, which is your contract with Chrysler.
My understanding (and I may be completely wrong - it's been known to happen!) is that when it was noted back in October that my CEL was on and I called Jeep to throw a fit, I was asked if I'd allow them "one more chance" to fix the vehicle. So possibly that's what they meant by final repair? That was their last chance? I honestly don't know. I don't know why Jeep won't talk to me. I don't know why my "case manager" is giving me the runaround - although he did call today to ask what my schedule was like to drop the vehicle off. I asked why, and he stated the dealer needed to verify that the CEL was actually on. When I questioned why I needed to drop it off for that to happen, he stated that it 'takes time' and they would provide me with a loaner vehicle.

I just typed up a timeline for the attorney I'm meeting tomorrow..it's nearly 3 pages of dates and mileages and repairs and phone calls. Ughhh...
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:22 PM   #4432
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My understanding (and I may be completely wrong - it's been known to happen!) is that when it was noted back in October that my CEL was on and I called Jeep to throw a fit, I was asked if I'd allow them "one more chance" to fix the vehicle. So possibly that's what they meant by final repair? That was their last chance? I honestly don't know. I don't know why Jeep won't talk to me. I don't know why my "case manager" is giving me the runaround - although he did call today to ask what my schedule was like to drop the vehicle off. I asked why, and he stated the dealer needed to verify that the CEL was actually on. When I questioned why I needed to drop it off for that to happen, he stated that it 'takes time' and they would provide me with a loaner vehicle.

I just typed up a timeline for the attorney I'm meeting tomorrow..it's nearly 3 pages of dates and mileages and repairs and phone calls. Ughhh...
Where are you located?

I suspect that the reason the dealership won't repair your vehicle right now is because Chrysler Corporate is involved. So the dealership cannot make any repairs without authorization from corporate. And now that lawyers are involved it only complicates matters.

What I don't understand is why when the check engine light came back on the car didn't just get into the dealer for repair.

It's all just a crappy situation and your the one getting screwed. Sorry your going through this.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:25 PM   #4433
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My understanding (and I may be completely wrong - it's been known to happen!) is that when it was noted back in October that my CEL was on and I called Jeep to throw a fit, I was asked if I'd allow them "one more chance" to fix the vehicle. So possibly that's what they meant by final repair? That was their last chance? I honestly don't know. I don't know why Jeep won't talk to me. I don't know why my "case manager" is giving me the runaround - although he did call today to ask what my schedule was like to drop the vehicle off. I asked why, and he stated the dealer needed to verify that the CEL was actually on. When I questioned why I needed to drop it off for that to happen, he stated that it 'takes time' and they would provide me with a loaner vehicle.

I just typed up a timeline for the attorney I'm meeting tomorrow..it's nearly 3 pages of dates and mileages and repairs and phone calls. Ughhh...
Your printed warranty document should take precedence over a phone conversation, and I am sure your attorney will discuss that with you. Be sure to take all of your service orders, and warranty information with you either printed from the internet or given to you first hand.

This is also very good advice from Riccochet "Never, EVER mention the word lawyer to your case worker. The second you do it is their job to cease all contact with you and close the case for legal reasons." Let it be a surprise for Jeep and the dealership.

BTW, have you tried talking to the CEO or the owner of the dealership?

Good luck to you tomorrow.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:30 PM   #4434
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:04 AM   #4435
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Hwy1rubi had a good suggestion. Talk to the owner or dealership manager. I had a 2011 JK that had the water leak problem on the right passenger side. The dealership tried 5 or 6 times to fix it but never could. I went to the dealership manager and explained everything that had happened and he ended up giving me almost what I paid for the vehicle in trade in value towards a 2012. He also let me have the 2012 at below invoice cost. My vehicle was almost a year old but only had about 5,000 miles on it since it was not my daily driver. I was happy with that resolution rather than going through a lemon law case. It is my understanding that if the vehicle is purchased back through the lemon law the amount paid is adjusted to a certain degree for the mileage on the vehicle anyway.

What I really don't understand about your case is it should be covered by warranty and there should not be a "last attempt at repair". They should keep trying until it is fixed or replace the vehicle. Maybe they meant a last attempt before they replaced the vehicle. Just a thought.
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:47 AM   #4436
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My '13 with AC head ticks as loud, and from the right side, as my '05 mustang gt and '07 mercedes slk32 ticked. Those were both identified by dealers as lifter sound but the ticking was considered normal. Since I didn't have an actual problem I lived with the ticking and sure enough nothing bad ever happened. I've learned to not be concerned anymore with ticking unless an actual problem is seen like idle issues or a CEL.

Also I really think when I put 5w-20 into my '13 a week ago the tick became noticeable. This is the specified oil but I theorize they must be putting in 5w-30 at the factory which quiets things down.
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:34 AM   #4437
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I'm not sure this is relevant but my '96 Explorer 4.0L engine ticked for years after I bought it new. As I recall it started at around 10,000 miles. I took it to dealers a couple of times and they all said it was normal for that engine.

The engine made it over 300K miles so I guess it wasn't an issue :-)
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Old 03-20-2013, 11:44 AM   #4438
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I'm not sure this is relevant but my '96 Explorer 4.0L engine ticked for years after I bought it new. As I recall it started at around 10,000 miles. I took it to dealers a couple of times and they all said it was normal for that engine.

The engine made it over 300K miles so I guess it wasn't an issue :-)
yea who could imagine metal parts with springs and bearings spinning around and banging on each other at 700-6500 rpms would make any noise lol. Lifters themselves are pretty crude devices.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:34 PM   #4439
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You'll know when you get the real Pentatick®. It's unbearable. Your jeep will sound like an old beater with no oil.
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Old 03-20-2013, 02:29 PM   #4440
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yea who could imagine metal parts with springs and bearings spinning around and banging on each other at 700-6500 rpms would make any noise lol. Lifters themselves are pretty crude devices.
With all the hype about how modern, advanced, and spectacularly engineered the Pentastar was, it sure fell flat on its face. Mine ticks but it's not crazy, and it doesn't seem to have any other symptoms. Mine is an early 2012 so I'm sure the head is defective.

My previous vehicle was an '06 Infiniti G35X sedan, and that VQ35DE DOHC V6 engine still purred like a baby kitten the day I sold her @ 50k miles. In the Chrysler world, all kinds of noise is considered "acceptable." I wonder why American cars get a bad rep...

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