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Old 04-15-2013, 10:21 PM   #4621
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Ok I'm a tech & replaced plenty of these mainly on mini vans though. You can get a rental if we keep the vehicle more then a day under warranty. But it doesn't take me a day once I have all parts on hand.

Now to answer you folks question about the problem with them. It's a valve seat/guide issue with them. And normally it's an exhuast valve not sealing with around 80% leakage when checked with a leak down tester. I have heard it was a machining issue on the left bank head. And you say why not the other side? Well the sides are different and that means one side is set-up on one machine & the other side is on another machine. Maybe that helps you understand a bit about it. And they all have a little lifter tick to them, even after the new head install.
What do I have do to get mine replaced without the CEL? Using a stethoscope the front drivers side head WAY louder! What are the magic words I need to say to the dealership?

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Old 04-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #4622
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Ok I'm a tech & replaced plenty of these mainly on mini vans though. You can get a rental if we keep the vehicle more then a day under warranty. But it doesn't take me a day once I have all parts on hand.

Now to answer you folks question about the problem with them. It's a valve seat/guide issue with them. And normally it's an exhuast valve not sealing with around 80% leakage when checked with a leak down tester. I have heard it was a machining issue on the left bank head. And you say why not the other side? Well the sides are different and that means one side is set-up on one machine & the other side is on another machine. Maybe that helps you understand a bit about it. And they all have a little lifter tick to them, even after the new head install.
Thanks for your comments. I think you're the only tech that's actually posted. According to one of the notes from Chrysler, they upgraded the valve seat and valve guide material to make the head "more robust" in the AC revision. There was also some rumor of improved cooling, but I've never seen any data to back that up. The redesign could have been done to improve the manufacturing yield, but it seems like it was a design flaw from the start.

I believe the passenger side head may have been updated before it hit the wrangler, because the latest passenger side part is AD, which is one revision greater than the driver's side. We know the AC driver's side head came out on July 25th, 2012, but we have no idea about the timeline on the passenger side.

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Old 04-15-2013, 11:13 PM   #4623
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What do I have do to get mine replaced without the CEL? Using a stethoscope the front drivers side head WAY louder! What are the magic words I need to say to the dealership?
Nothing you can do really until it's bad. We have to show whats bad & why replaced. If they ask for the head back & it isn't leaking causing a misfire they can kick the claim back & not pay us. I know it sucks but we can't just replace parts cause it may go bad.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:44 AM   #4624
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Nothing you can do really until it's bad. We have to show whats bad & why replaced. If they ask for the head back & it isn't leaking causing a misfire they can kick the claim back & not pay us. I know it sucks but we can't just replace parts cause it may go bad.
Wow,

good to hear from someone who knows what he speaks about:-)

Could you at lease clear for us the problem of the head numbers and its location? It seems there is an awful number of different numbers around and nobody is sure anymore, which of these numbers is really the head number...
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:46 AM   #4625
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Also,

what do you think does this mean: I have a 13" model (built September 12") with the cyl6. misfire (and loss of power) and the dealer says, that I alread had the newer head revision on the car installed from the factory? What does that says - yet another revision is due?
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:45 AM   #4626
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Also,

what do you think does this mean: I have a 13" model (built September 12") with the cyl6. misfire (and loss of power) and the dealer says, that I alread had the newer head revision on the car installed from the factory? What does that says - yet another revision is due?
That really sucks as it indicates the AC heads may not be the answer.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:36 AM   #4627
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Called Chrysler yesterday, they called dealer with me on hold and got me a rental pisses me off that the dealer lied, you know they know warranty work gets a rental, I think they get people to pay and then still get money from Chrysler... Bunch of thieves can't wait untill my warranty is up! Ill just have to fix it myself and not deal with these a holes.... Should be done sometime today ill keep you posted I still haven't checked build date
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:53 AM   #4628
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Called Chrysler yesterday, they called dealer with me on hold and got me a rental pisses me off that the dealer lied, you know they know warranty work gets a rental, I think they get people to pay and then still get money from Chrysler... Bunch of thieves can't wait untill my warranty is up! Ill just have to fix it myself and not deal with these a holes.... Should be done sometime today ill keep you posted I still haven't checked build date
Here's the catch: there is nothing in your warranty booklet stating the dealer has to provide you with a loaner or rental. Chrysler will authorize payment if you call Jeep Customer Assistance.

A dealer could have contacted Chrysler on your behalf so you didn't have to go through the hassle.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:33 AM   #4629
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That really sucks as it indicates the AC heads may not be the answer.
too many variables to make that judgement. The earlier '13 builds could have AB heads. There can be a month or so lag between the engine build date and the wrangler build date. September '13 can easily mean he has an engine from July with the faulty head. If he pulls his head code and it reads greater than 2062, he has an AC head. That doesn't mean that's what causing the misfire.

I now have almost 10k on my AC head replacement with no issues.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:57 AM   #4630
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too many variables to make that judgement. The earlier '13 builds could have AB heads. There can be a month or so lag between the engine build date and the wrangler build date. September '13 can easily mean he has an engine from July with the faulty head. If he pulls his head code and it reads greater than 2062, he has an AC head. That doesn't mean that's what causing the misfire.

I now have almost 10k on my AC head replacement with no issues.
Mine was built in mid August and I have a 2072 date (made it by one day) on my head so I would think that anything built after mid August had the AC head.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #4631
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Wow,

good to hear from someone who knows what he speaks about:-)

Could you at lease clear for us the problem of the head numbers and its location? It seems there is an awful number of different numbers around and nobody is sure anymore, which of these numbers is really the head number...
I'm not sure on the numbers deal. I don't really look at that. I diagnose the issue & if thats the problem I order a head for it. I'll take a look at one next time I have one & see what I can find though. And about the ticking going away with a new head. Kinda hard to make it go away when we reuse the camshafts, camshaft gears & phasers, lifters & rocker arms from the original head. The head, valves, springs & retainers are whats new.

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Also,

what do you think does this mean: I have a 13" model (built September 12") with the cyl6. misfire (and loss of power) and the dealer says, that I alread had the newer head revision on the car installed from the factory? What does that says - yet another revision is due?
That may be a different issue. Could be a plug, injector, pcm who knows. I promise you this, that all things man made will have problems when you produce them in the numbers that cars are made. And I haven't seen a dealership yet that doesn't have a service dept. attached to it no matter what automaker it is. They all break at some point.

And the rental deal at our place is what I said, if we have to keep it more then a day & it's not driveable we can arrange a rental. But sometimes we have to pay the rental not Chrysler. That stuff is kinda weird how it works sometimes, glad I don't deal with it.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:57 PM   #4632
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Nothing you can do really until it's bad. We have to show whats bad & why replaced. If they ask for the head back & it isn't leaking causing a misfire they can kick the claim back & not pay us. I know it sucks but we can't just replace parts cause it may go bad.
Very true on any part replaced under warranty, but they especially look at the big dollar items (like the head issue) during their internal audit sampling otherwise a dealer could rake in big dollars doing needless repairs; that's something most customers outside this forum will never understand when they just expect you guys to play whack-a-mole replacing parts -- just in case.
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Old 04-16-2013, 10:45 PM   #4633
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I'm not sure on the numbers deal. I don't really look at that. I diagnose the issue & if thats the problem I order a head for it. I'll take a look at one next time I have one & see what I can find though. And about the ticking going away with a new head. Kinda hard to make it go away when we reuse the camshafts, camshaft gears & phasers, lifters & rocker arms from the original head. The head, valves, springs & retainers are whats new.

That may be a different issue. Could be a plug, injector, pcm who knows. I promise you this, that all things man made will have problems when you produce them in the numbers that cars are made. And I haven't seen a dealership yet that doesn't have a service dept. attached to it no matter what automaker it is. They all break at some point.

And the rental deal at our place is what I said, if we have to keep it more then a day & it's not driveable we can arrange a rental. But sometimes we have to pay the rental not Chrysler. That stuff is kinda weird how it works sometimes, glad I don't deal with it.
Nice to hear someone that's knows of what they speak. Stick around here to help out. One question, do the dealer have a list of possibly affected vin#s ranges. If so that would settle some people's nerves.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:06 PM   #4634
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Nice to hear someone that's knows of what they speak. Stick around here to help out. One question, do the dealer have a list of possibly affected vin#s ranges. If so that would settle some people's nerves.
There is a dealer bulletin mentioned earlier in this thread concerning this topic. But I'm not a dealer tech so I know nothing of what I speak.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:43 AM   #4635
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Got my jeep back yesterday afternoon, running quieter, little smoother, more power I don't have to down shift as much as before... These are all things that are hard to tell after driving a jeep with 35s and 3" lift.... Thanks for your help everyone my jeep runs like new at 19.000 miles! Ill get my build date posted and hopefully I'm done with this thread :|
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:35 AM   #4636
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been more than a year since anyone has posted on this tick - so i'm gonna assume it's all fixed - back to runing moonshine
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:36 AM   #4637
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Out of curiosity, has anyone actually felt the engine misfire?

I was waiting to pull out into traffic today, and when I finally got an opening, I put my foot into it a bit and pulled out and felt it miss -- but only very briefly (and I could swear that I also heard a muffled backfire) then it went back to being the torquey little SOB that it is. No check engine light, though.

Just curious if anyone else has felt a cylinder briefly drop out before their head was "upgraded"?
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:51 AM   #4638
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There is a dealer bulletin mentioned earlier in this thread concerning this topic. But I'm not a dealer tech so I know nothing of what I speak.
Touche'
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:54 AM   #4639
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been more than a year since anyone has posted on this tick - so i'm gonna assume it's all fixed - back to runing moonshine
I believe you read the prior poster's join date, not post date.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:59 PM   #4640
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Nothing you can do really until it's bad. We have to show whats bad & why replaced. If they ask for the head back & it isn't leaking causing a misfire they can kick the claim back & not pay us. I know it sucks but we can't just replace parts cause it may go bad.
ARG! The truth hurts. Oh the pain! Thanks for the honest assessment. I had my head replaced after CEL blew code. Tick gone for 14K miles now. Victorville Motors holds the world record head swap time: 4 hours. Great Service Department!
I love my jeep!
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:17 PM   #4641
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Out of curiosity, has anyone actually felt the engine misfire?

I was waiting to pull out into traffic today, and when I finally got an opening, I put my foot into it a bit and pulled out and felt it miss -- but only very briefly (and I could swear that I also heard a muffled backfire) then it went back to being the torquey little SOB that it is. No check engine light, though.

Just curious if anyone else has felt a cylinder briefly drop out before their head was "upgraded"?
That might have been the traction control kicking in. I have some roughness at idle which is almost like an occasional misfire.

What bothers me is when you read other forums for pentastars that have been out longer. I read a case where someone had a driver's side head replaced on their charger at around 30k, and had a misfire code at around 70k for the passenger side. after replacing the passenger side head, they couldn't get rid of the misfire code.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:20 PM   #4642
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So at 49,000 miles, my 2012 needs the heads replaced again! Aint that great! Is it a lemon after it happens 3 times? Anyone know?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:26 PM   #4643
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So at 49,000 miles, my 2012 needs the heads replaced again! Aint that great! Is it a lemon after it happens 3 times? Anyone know?
You win the high mileage award! i guess you had them replaced before august 2012? if so, those were the same defective part. the new part is supposed to be the fix.

you're way past the lemon law mileage, unfortunately.

IMO, more proof that all AA heads will fail past a certain mileage.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #4644
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That might have been the traction control kicking in. I have some roughness at idle which is almost like an occasional misfire.

What bothers me is when you read other forums for pentastars that have been out longer. I read a case where someone had a driver's side head replaced on their charger at around 30k, and had a misfire code at around 70k for the passenger side. after replacing the passenger side head, they couldn't get rid of the misfire code.
Does anyone know if the newer 2013's have the same right side head as some of the earlier 2012's? Or put another way, has anyone checked if they made changes to 2013's right head?
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:56 PM   #4645
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ekdigdirt, Any updates on your case?
Latest news (which isn't much, really): Chrysler signed for the letter from my attorney on April 1, giving them 30 days (until May 1) to respond. Chrysler faxed a letter to my attorney's office demanding that I bring the vehicle to the dealership where it was purchased to allow them the opportunity to fix the vehicle as agreed in my warranty. I was instructed to "leave a note on the dashboard as to what repairs I think the vehicle needs." Really?

I didn't drop my Jeep off, and the next morning my attorney had another fax stating they were acknowledging that I did not drop my vehicle off and if I changed my mind and decided to allow them to fix the vehicle as per the warranty, I was supposed to contact Chrysler via their attorney's office and let them know.

Now, we wait. The dealership where I purchased my 2012 Jeep is a little less than 2 hours from my house - not possible for me to get there during business hours, and no loaner vehicle was offered (not that I am surprised about that at this point, honestly). There's no possible way for me to get there and back home, never mind getting to work and school and whatnot.

Standby for further information.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #4646
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Standing by.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:36 PM   #4647
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:44 PM   #4648
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Out of curiosity, has anyone actually felt the engine misfire?

I was waiting to pull out into traffic today, and when I finally got an opening, I put my foot into it a bit and pulled out and felt it miss -- but only very briefly (and I could swear that I also heard a muffled backfire) then it went back to being the torquey little SOB that it is. No check engine light, though.

Just curious if anyone else has felt a cylinder briefly drop out before their head was "upgraded"?
1 to 2 weeks before I threw my CEL, mine developed a periodic but pronounced misfire at idle. I knew at that moment that I'd be getting a new head soon. I have read all of this thread, however, and I have not seen many posts from others who started with a misfire.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:26 AM   #4649
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Mine gets a stumble at at idle while sitting at a light. I know its only a matter of time.

I had a turd 3.0 ranger with the infamous exhaust valve seat issue. Thats how it started.... rough idle, then a stumble and eventually a CEL. Compression on that cylinder was down to 90psi. Didn't even bother checkkng leakage as I knew what it was.
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Old 04-19-2013, 10:57 AM   #4650
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That might have been the traction control kicking in. I have some roughness at idle which is almost like an occasional misfire.

What bothers me is when you read other forums for pentastars that have been out longer. I read a case where someone had a driver's side head replaced on their charger at around 30k, and had a misfire code at around 70k for the passenger side. after replacing the passenger side head, they couldn't get rid of the misfire code.
I'm very confident that it was not the TCS. He drop out was only for a fraction of a second and no lights on the dash lit up. All the other times that my TCS has kicked in without the need it refuses to turn off until I pull over and push the shifter into park. Sometimes I even have to shut the engine off and restart. Dealer can't reproduce that problem either...

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