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Old 05-16-2013, 12:13 AM   #4861
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Originally Posted by bzffr8 View Post
Not sure what head is on my 2013, build date of March 13th. We have 680 miles on it and the check engine light came on with a code of p0306.
Just out of curiosity, do you warm up the motor before driving? What RPM are you shifting at? Do you have a heavy foot? How often are you revving past 3k RPM? Pass a lot of cars? Mostly highway or city? What brand of gas?

Just curious what kind of driving style you have, since you had a failure very early. Surprised to see this on a '13 though.

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Old 05-16-2013, 02:44 AM   #4862
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Not sure what head is on my 2013, build date of March 13th. We have 680 miles on it and the check engine light came on with a code of p0306. Dealer in Yucca Valley Ca checked it out and said the head needed to be changed. Never noticed any ticking, but also did not drive it long enough either. Hopefully the replacement head will correct any issue. Just hate having to have this kind of work done with such low miles. Glad warranty will take care of it. Hope this is not a sign of things to come!!!
Wow, another confirmed 13" case. Things are looking grim again...

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Old 05-16-2013, 03:06 AM   #4863
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Just out of curiosity, do you warm up the motor before driving? What RPM are you shifting at? Do you have a heavy foot? How often are you revving past 3k RPM? Pass a lot of cars? Mostly highway or city? What brand of gas?

Just curious what kind of driving style you have, since you had a failure very early. Surprised to see this on a '13 though.
I mean honestly, whats that to do with the failure? Do you mean if i dont drive like a pensioner its my own fault? Chrysler isnt selling the JK with any limitations like: you cant drive it past 80mls/hour or rev it past 2500rpms. Its just another car, just like the rest of the cars on the market. If the failure is due to stress on the engine, than somebody at the Chrysler has done pretty poor job when designing it. My Mitsu Evo IX is merely 2 liter and with turbo on top. I use it on circuit regulary for several years now, rev it to the limiter and generally beat the crap out of it, but its still going strong. Unlike the Pentastar engine after just a few miles on the normal roads...
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Old 05-16-2013, 05:09 AM   #4864
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I mean honestly, whats that to do with the failure? Do you mean if i dont drive like a pensioner its my own fault? Chrysler isnt selling the JK with any limitations like: you cant drive it past 80mls/hour or rev it past 2500rpms. Its just another car, just like the rest of the cars on the market. If the failure is due to stress on the engine, than somebody at the Chrysler has done pretty poor job when designing it. My Mitsu Evo IX is merely 2 liter and with turbo on top. I use it on circuit regulary for several years now, rev it to the limiter and generally beat the crap out of it, but its still going strong. Unlike the Pentastar engine after just a few miles on the normal roads...
You're right. So this makes three 2013's with the problem mentioned in this thread? I've lost count. I'm just curious, how easy are you supposed to drive one of these things? Its an off road vehicle with an engine that makes power by revving faster than an I-6 would. Typically it would be driven harder than most vehicles if used off road. Several that failed never saw anything but pavement, and were babied too. So IMO their excuse is a poor one. The engine design obviously has issues, and three head revisions didn't fix it.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:18 AM   #4865
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Just some common sense

It's a simple mechanical device, there aren't any unicorns and fairy dust in there (despite what Chrysler may have you believe).
Mike, I agree with you to an extent. Not beating on mechanical devices is always a sound practice. However, in this case, it seems like there is the potential that an underlying problem exists. Why should we have to worry about "warming the engine"? I don't mean rev it like crazy when cold, but we should at least be able to drive off after a few seconds with a light foot on the gas. Many automotive experts have said with newer vehicles there is no need to warm the engine and it would just waste fuel.

Also, what if the only option for gas is "bad fuel" on a road trip? Sometimes options are limited.

I do not advocate beating our Jeeps. But why should we need to treat them with kid gloves? I know the 4.0 had issues for a few years (because components were messed with) but I don't ever recall driving style or bad gas being blamed. This is 2013. We should have hover Jeeps by now, not failing heads.

I don't mean to sound critical. I just expect better from an American icon. I hope these incidents on the 13s are isolated and that the Pentastar is a roaring success for Chrysler.
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Old 05-16-2013, 07:00 AM   #4866
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For the sake of the Jeep brand, for the sake of all the owners of 2012 and 2013 Wranglers, and for the sake of all those who are planning to buy a new Wrangler, I hope the AC head is a true fix and that the failures on 2013s are due to AB heads being used or are freak occurrences not related to a design problem.
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Old 05-16-2013, 08:35 AM   #4867
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Just out of curiosity, do you warm up the motor before driving? What RPM are you shifting at? Do you have a heavy foot? How often are you revving past 3k RPM? Pass a lot of cars? Mostly highway or city? What brand of gas?

Just curious what kind of driving style you have, since you had a failure very early. Surprised to see this on a '13 though.
Do I let the vehicle warm before driving? Long enough for my wife to get her seat belt on and we are situated. As far as shifting rpms, I have not paid attention, It is an automatic and the shift points seemed normal. I have only driven the jeep 680 miles and 285 of those was from the dealer where I bought it. I drive it like I have any other vehicle I have owned. I do not have a heavy foot and have not passed any cars. The light came on while taking a very easy scenic dirt road. I have only put three tanks of gas in it. I am at an elevation of 7000 ft. It also had a code of it running too rich (Not enough air maybe)

Not sure what the root cause is. I am hoping to get to talk to the mechanic when I pick it up next week.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:22 AM   #4868
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True story: Warming up a vehicle by idling it can actually cause more metal on metal wear than if you just start it up and drive it off.

More wear happens when the components are cold. A vehicle warms up much quicker when you're driving it. It could take 5-10 minutes for an idling vehicle to reach the same temperature as a vehicle that's been driven for 3 minutes. Do the math and do your research online or in your owner's manual. You'll find that no manufacturers recommend a warm-up period, unless you live in the arctic. Even then it's < 1 min.
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:27 AM   #4869
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I remember last year when summer approached and the weather became warm to hot across most of the Nation, head failures seemed to happen faster. I wonder if we will see a spike in bad heads again this summer?
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #4870
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I remember last year when summer approached and the weather became warm to hot across most of the Nation, head failures seemed to happen faster. I wonder if we will see a spike in bad heads again this summer?
Could be related, or it could be a function of the amount of miles people accrued. I feel like we should have heard about more '13 cases by now. Rental '13's must be in the 20-40k mile range by now. Then again, the AC head may just delay the inevitable
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:32 AM   #4871
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Originally Posted by bzffr8 View Post
Not sure what head is on my 2013, build date of March 13th. We have 680 miles on it and the check engine light came on with a code of p0306. Dealer in Yucca Valley Ca checked it out and said the head needed to be changed. Never noticed any ticking, but also did not drive it long enough either. Hopefully the replacement head will correct any issue. Just hate having to have this kind of work done with such low miles. Glad warranty will take care of it. Hope this is not a sign of things to come!!!

Nooooo... It can't be! That has to be an AC head.....
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Old 05-16-2013, 11:33 AM   #4872
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Could be related, or it could be a function of the amount of miles people accrued. I feel like we should have heard about more '13 cases by now. Rental '13's must be in the 20-40k mile range by now. Then again, the AC head may just delay the inevitable
Oh shit! LOL
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Old 05-16-2013, 03:45 PM   #4873
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True story: Warming up a vehicle by idling it can actually cause more metal on metal wear than if you just start it up and drive it off.

More wear happens when the components are cold. A vehicle warms up much quicker when you're driving it. It could take 5-10 minutes for an idling vehicle to reach the same temperature as a vehicle that's been driven for 3 minutes. Do the math and do your research online or in your owner's manual. You'll find that no manufacturers recommend a warm-up period, unless you live in the arctic. Even then it's < 1 min.
This is true, driving with a light foot is better for warming up an engine than idling it.

The Jeep is made to be driven, it should be no different than any of the other millions of vehicles on the road today. The excuses Chrysler laid out for the tick on The Ticking Pentastar Excuse Sheet 101 are total BS. There is a design issue that needs to be addressed, it is obvious now that the problem has spread into model year 2013, and after the AC revision they still appear to be having problems. It should be interesting to see if more 2013's start failing since the weather is getting warmer, and many of us believe the problem is related to poor cooling of the cylinder head.
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Old 05-17-2013, 12:37 AM   #4874
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So the info I got from the shop foreman is that the lifters and tick are independent from the head issue. My tick isn't as loud as the GC he showed me. He said he could replace lifters but in the end they are junk and the noise will come back maybe worse. Most all of them have a tick to some degree it seems.

He confirmed the exhaust valve burning and guide issues though. I'm not too worried for that as I have 5/100 powertrain. I'm just worried that the ticking will never get fixed at somepoint if chrysler doesn't get a better quality lifter so I will probably live with it and check back in a year and see if improved parts get released.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:40 AM   #4875
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Hi guys,
Just to let you know, that finally I got my car back (after more than a month:-) At first, when I took it from the dealer, the engine wasnt running 100% (it kinda wanted to stall every 5-7 seconds), but this settled after some 80 mls on the highway. Hope it stays like that.
Anyway, back to why I wrote this. My ex head Julians date is 2712B, aka 28.9.2012. According to the info in this thread that would confirm the faulty head as the "latest" revision. So lets see where the newly replaced one will take me...
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:48 AM   #4876
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:54 AM   #4877
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So the info I got from the shop foreman is that the lifters and tick are independent from the head issue. My tick isn't as loud as the GC he showed me. He said he could replace lifters but in the end they are junk and the noise will come back maybe worse. Most all of them have a tick to some degree it seems.

He confirmed the exhaust valve burning and guide issues though. I'm not too worried for that as I have 5/100 powertrain. I'm just worried that the ticking will never get fixed at somepoint if chrysler doesn't get a better quality lifter so I will probably live with it and check back in a year and see if improved parts get released.
Ouch!

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Hi guys,
Just to let you know, that finally I got my car back (after more than a month:-) At first, when I took it from the dealer, the engine wasnt running 100% (it kinda wanted to stall every 5-7 seconds), but this settled after some 80 mls on the highway. Hope it stays like that.
Anyway, back to why I wrote this. My ex head Julians date is 2712B, aka 28.9.2012. According to the info in this thread that would confirm the faulty head as the "latest" revision. So lets see where the newly replaced one will take me...
Wow!
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:10 PM   #4878
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Again, hope these are flukes because I love my JK!
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Old 05-18-2013, 01:35 AM   #4879
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Hi guys,
Just to let you know, that finally I got my car back (after more than a month:-) At first, when I took it from the dealer, the engine wasnt running 100% (it kinda wanted to stall every 5-7 seconds), but this settled after some 80 mls on the highway. Hope it stays like that.
Anyway, back to why I wrote this. My ex head Julians date is 2712B, aka 28.9.2012. According to the info in this thread that would confirm the faulty head as the "latest" revision. So lets see where the newly replaced one will take me...

So what was the stuck intake valve all about??? Did you ask why it was stuck? It's very clear in the picture you posted that one intake valve is open when it should be closed and your post said that was the reason for the code. How is that related to the exhaust valve seats???

Glad they got you fixed up and back on the road!
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Old 05-18-2013, 05:37 AM   #4880
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So what was the stuck intake valve all about??? Did you ask why it was stuck? It's very clear in the picture you posted that one intake valve is open when it should be closed and your post said that was the reason for the code. How is that related to the exhaust valve seats???

Glad they got you fixed up and back on the road!
It has me scratching my head too, is this a different problem or the same problem everyone else had when their head failed?
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:23 PM   #4881
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I mean honestly, whats that to do with the failure? Do you mean if i dont drive like a pensioner its my own fault?
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Why should we have to worry about "warming the engine"?
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Do I let the vehicle warm before driving? Long enough for my wife to get her seat belt on and we are situated.
You guys misunderstood me. All I meant was that Chrysler's statement was skirting the issue by stating when your valve will fail, rather than if or why. But we know why: the head is defective. And I completely agree with everyone that we shouldn't have to worry about driving like a pensioner

Unfortunately, considering I know my head is defective, and that driving style will influence when it fails, it prevents me from driving it as hard as I would otherwise.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:45 AM   #4882
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You guys misunderstood me. All I meant was that Chrysler's statement was skirting the issue by stating when your valve will fail, rather than if or why. But we know why: the head is defective. And I completely agree with everyone that we shouldn't have to worry about driving like a pensioner

Unfortunately, considering I know my head is defective, and that driving style will influence when it fails, it prevents me from driving it as hard as I would otherwise.
I got it now! It sucks having to baby it, and it sucks even more knowing that their fix might not even be a good fix. Drive it in good health, and hopefully there will be an end to this nonsense.
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Old 05-20-2013, 06:23 AM   #4883
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I wonder if an "AD" head will become available?
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:09 AM   #4884
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AD head is used on passenger side.

I drive my Jeep like normal. If it's going to happen it will, regardless.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:19 PM   #4885
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SilverSport, I agree and will drive like normal.

I wouldn't care if the head needed replace while under warranty, but what about after that 5 year mark? I know some have said that replacing it is easy and inexpensive. However, I am not willing to accept that logic as it misses the point. Jeeps are powered by an internal combustion engine, not some sci-fi ion propulsion system. The technology should be solid. If the 3.6 remains problematic in the next 5 years, my ownership of my Wrangler won't last much longer than that. Especially if I experience a failure and there are no "real fixes" on the horizon.

I don't like to sound this negative as I am really enjoying my Jeep. But what was sold to us as a fixed problem may still be a problem. That annoys me. Especially because Jeeps aren't cheap!
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:23 PM   #4886
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SilverSport, I agree and will drive like normal.

I wouldn't care if the head needed replace while under warranty, but what about after that 5 year mark? I know some have said that replacing it is easy and inexpensive. However, I am not willing to accept that logic as it misses the point. Jeeps are powered by an internal combustion engine, not some sci-fi ion propulsion system. The technology should be solid. If the 3.6 remains problematic in the next 5 years, my ownership of my Wrangler won't last much longer than that. Especially if I experience a failure and there are no "real fixes" on the horizon.

I don't like to sound this negative as I am really enjoying my Jeep. But what was sold to us as a fixed problem may still be a problem. That annoys me. Especially because Jeeps aren't cheap!
Just one thing, I wouldn't say it's easy and inexpensive to replace a head. It's a ~$500 part and I think they're billing 8-12 hours labor.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:50 PM   #4887
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Just one thing, I wouldn't say it's easy and inexpensive to replace a head. It's a ~$500 part and I think they're billing 8-12 hours labor.
That 500 is retail, they don't pay retail. Also they don't bill out labor at retail rate for warranty work. If they could charge retail the dealerships would be looking for something wrong on your jeep, They would saying ,"I think I hear your head ticking, we'll replace it for you sir".
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:56 PM   #4888
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That 500 is retail, they don't pay retail. Also they don't bill out labor at retail rate for warranty work. If they could charge retail the dealerships would be looking for something wrong on your jeep, They would saying ,"I think I hear your head ticking, we'll replace it for you sir".
Correct, I was addressing his comment about replacing the head out of warranty.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:18 PM   #4889
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Yeah...the I'm a bit worried about what happens in 5 years. I've been driving my Wrangler A LOT (for me), and I just hit 4000 miles (I picked it up in early November...and I drive my Jeeps more in the winter, hell I took my car to work today). I'll be lucky to have 35,000 miles in 5 years.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:19 PM   #4890
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My 2012 rubicon got the check engine light this weekend at 12,700 miles. my OBD scanner was showing it throwing code P0306 (cylinder 6 misfire).

Called the local dealer, told her my code and that it ticks like a diesel (pretty much always has) and she immediately said it needed a head replacement and to bring it in. Dropped it off this morning and they gave me a rental for the time being. They had 6 of the "newly designed" heads in stock and 3 techs certified on this repair....Should have the Jeep back in a couple days.

I thought I'd tick along but never actually have this problem, but to be honest I'm sort of glad it's being resolved, especially since I've heard horror stories of dealers giving the runaround and mine went straight to the problem. I feel like since that press release they're more apt to fix the head on the front end.

For reference: I use regular gas (rarely premium) and drive easy to save the tires.
So, there's a scanner I can buy that will let me read my own error codes?

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