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Old 06-07-2013, 03:54 PM   #5011
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Well, one of the key differences between the left and right head is that the left head (problem head) runs 100 degrees hotter. I think this is because it's on the return end of the coolant flow?

Why else do we see 99% of the failures on the left head?

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #5012
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I wonder if a poll would be helpful, specific to AC head failures. I will create one if there is interest.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #5013
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Not necessarily. I recall reading that a Chrysler mechanic was heard saying that to break it & cause a misfire, start the motor after sitting all night (so that the valve is still cold and poorly lubricated) and floor it. I believe this defect in the driver's side head is exacerbated by cold temperatures (such as driving off while motor is still cold) rather than hot temps when all the metal has expanded and is well lubricated.
Considering the fixes to the head had to do with improving cooling and beefing up the guides my vote is poor cooling. What sucks is they'll never admit to anything, including if they fixed the problem or not.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #5014
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It is also interesting that the 10A's are coming stock with heat reduction hoods.....They trying to reduce underhood temps??? Can't just be for the looks. Hmmmm
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:15 PM   #5015
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Don't forget, there was an oil change for the 2013's as well. Original 2012 OM's state 5W-30...but 2013 (not sure about late model 2012's) OM's state 5W-20.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:46 PM   #5016
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The key here is anytime the Jeep has to stay overnight. The few times I knew my Jeep had to stay more than a day, I called JCA and asked for a rental. JCA contacted the dealer to verify the repairs and then contacted the local Enterprise. Other members have had similar results. While there is nothing in the warranty booklet saying Chrysler will pay for a rental, if the need is valid they usually come thru. Not sure why you had a bad experience.
Actually what I meant is they didn't want to give a rental at all, even if they kept it for a week. I had to fight to get one. If they can fix it in a day and get it back to me, then I have no need for the rental as the dealer is willing to drop me off at work and pick me up.
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Old 06-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #5017
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Originally Posted by aypanthony View Post
It is also interesting that the 10A's are coming stock with heat reduction hoods.....They trying to reduce underhood temps??? Can't just be for the looks. Hmmmm
Have you seen the underside of the hood? It's a very small hole. Wouldn't help much on venting heat
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:11 PM   #5018
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Well, one of the key differences between the left and right head is that the left head (problem head) runs 100 degrees hotter. I think this is because it's on the return end of the coolant flow?
That makes sense, plus the exhaust loop on the left side and no loop on the right. That loop is probably there to equalize exhaust pressure coming from both sides since the right has farther to go, but it may restrict the exhaust a little too much on the left side.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:12 PM   #5019
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If it is heat related and the oil is now 5w20 i would think using a full synthetic would be a plus.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:16 PM   #5020
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Synthetic would hold up better under heat, but I doubt it would do anything to alleviate the head issue. It's not going to run any cooler.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:20 PM   #5021
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It will deliver quicker lubrication to a cold motor. Also i believe there is an oil filter change for the 2013s. It will be interesting to see how the 2014s try to address the issue.
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Old 06-07-2013, 06:55 PM   #5022
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It will deliver quicker lubrication to a cold motor. Also i believe there is an oil filter change for the 2013s. It will be interesting to see how the 2014s try to address the issue.

It sure will, it appears the 2013's haven't gotten it licked yet.
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #5023
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Was not aware of an oil filter change. Chrysler is looking seriously incompetent here. I will likely never buy another Chrysler product. This has been going on for over a year (maybe close to two) with no real fix and no real response from Chrysler. Pathetic!
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #5024
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Pentestar.com mentions a new filter for 2014
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:34 PM   #5025
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See 2014 info sticky. Engine oil cooler on all 2014 jks.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:17 PM   #5026
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Maybe the oil cooler is the "fix".
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:40 PM   #5027
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Originally Posted by blankster View Post
See 2014 info sticky. Engine oil cooler on all 2014 jks.

2012 and 2013 Pentastars also have the engine oil cooler. It uses engine coolant to "cool" the oil.

Go to post 4968 and click on the link. When the pic opens you can see the cooler right behind the oil filter housing.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:54 PM   #5028
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
2012 and 2013 Pentastars also have the engine oil cooler. It uses engine coolant to "cool" the oil.

Go to post 4968 and click on the link. When the pic opens you can see the cooler right behind the oil filter housing.
Thanks SilverSport, that one of the main reason I posted the image.

Click here for Direct link
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:09 AM   #5029
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Why else do we see 99% of the failures on the left head?
I thought it was because only the driver's side head had defective valve guide(s).
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:14 AM   #5030
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In the 2014 sticky Milos stated oil coolers available on all JKs. Maybe for prior years it was not. Or maybe for 2014 the cooler is also revised - Time will tell. Either way if I decide to replace my 2004 TJ with a 2014 I will use full synthetic like I have in all my vehicles since the mid-1970s. May go see Pat@Fields today to run through the option list on a 2014 Sport "S".

From Allpar:

Chrysler has quietly changed the oil filters and cap O-rings used on the Pentastar V6 engines from 2011-13’s part number 68109834AA to 68191349AA on 2014 models.
The change, which Andy told us affected all Pentastar V6 engines, may have coincided with changes to the oil cooler; however, it might be more likely that it was done to reduce confusion and inventories, since the VM V6 diesel engine used by Chrysler also saw a redesign of the filter and cap O-rings, to the same part number as the gasoline V6. This means that dealers can stock a single filter-and-gasket kit for all Grand Cherokee V6 engines, diesel and gasoline alike — unless, of course, they are from the 2011 to 2013 model years.

Also some other interesting info regarding the 3.6 oil pump operation and its control by engine management - Meaning ongoing software changes may also be involved in resolving the ticking head issue:

A chain-driven, vane-type variable displacement oil pump adjusts the flow rate and pressure as commanded by the engine management system, which uses a solenoid to drive the pump into low or high pressure mode. For example, below 3,500 rpm, the pump conserves energy by using low pressure; at speeds over 3,500 rpm, the pump switches to high pressure.

A force balance mechanism inside the oil pump adjusts the size of the pumping chambers to alter oil flow. If the oil is cold, the pump reduces the size of the internal chambers. When the oil is hot and thinner, more oil is needed, and a spring increases the size of the pump chambers. This also saves energy.

The pump is driven at a 1:1 drive ratio; its location under the block is more efficient than an on-crankshaft location. An internal, mechanical ball-and-spring relief valve dumps oil into the sump when needed, for conditions such as a cold start with high engine speed. Both pump and pressure regulation solenoid are non-serviceable.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:16 AM   #5031
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You can lead a horse to water......LOL
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:17 AM   #5032
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Thanks SilverSport, that one of the main reason I posted the image.

Click here for Direct link
You're welcome. Too bad the cooler wasn't an external type.
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Old 06-08-2013, 08:26 AM   #5033
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In the 2014 sticky Milos stated oil coolers available on all JKs. Maybe for prior years it was not. Or maybe for 2014 the cooler is also revised - Time will tell. Either way if I decide to replace my 2004 TJ with a 2014 I will use full synthetic like I have in all my vehicles since the mid-1970s. May go see Pat@Fields today to run through the option list on a 2014 Sport "S".

From Allpar:

Chrysler has quietly changed the oil filters and cap O-rings used on the Pentastar V6 engines from 2011-13’s part number 68109834AA to 68191349AA on 2014 models.
The change, which Andy told us affected all Pentastar V6 engines, may have coincided with changes to the oil cooler; however, it might be more likely that it was done to reduce confusion and inventories, since the VM V6 diesel engine used by Chrysler also saw a redesign of the filter and cap O-rings, to the same part number as the gasoline V6. This means that dealers can stock a single filter-and-gasket kit for all Grand Cherokee V6 engines, diesel and gasoline alike — unless, of course, they are from the 2011 to 2013 model years.

Also some other interesting info regarding the 3.6 oil pump operation and its control by engine management - Meaning ongoing software changes may also be involved in resolving the ticking head issue:

A chain-driven, vane-type variable displacement oil pump adjusts the flow rate and pressure as commanded by the engine management system, which uses a solenoid to drive the pump into low or high pressure mode. For example, below 3,500 rpm, the pump conserves energy by using low pressure; at speeds over 3,500 rpm, the pump switches to high pressure.

A force balance mechanism inside the oil pump adjusts the size of the pumping chambers to alter oil flow. If the oil is cold, the pump reduces the size of the internal chambers. When the oil is hot and thinner, more oil is needed, and a spring increases the size of the pump chambers. This also saves energy.

The pump is driven at a 1:1 drive ratio; its location under the block is more efficient than an on-crankshaft location. An internal, mechanical ball-and-spring relief valve dumps oil into the sump when needed, for conditions such as a cold start with high engine speed. Both pump and pressure regulation solenoid are non-serviceable.
Interesting, it seems like a work in progress to resolve the tick, and ultimately the head problem. Hopefully the Pentastar head issue will come to rest once and for all!
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:06 AM   #5034
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An interesting study might be to see how the 3.6 is holding up in the 2014 grand Cherokees since they have been in service since February and has the upgrades. Maybe late 2013 jks were changed also.
Might be some insight into the 2014 jk
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #5035
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Interesting, it seems like a work in progress to resolve the tick, and ultimately the head problem. Hopefully the Pentastar head issue will come to rest once and for all!
All this is nothing new. Already have the oil cooler and two stage oil pump on the 2012s and 13s.
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Old 06-08-2013, 09:17 AM   #5036
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True but ongoing lubrication changes part upgrades and software changes are all part of putting this issue behind us.
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:23 AM   #5037
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True but ongoing lubrication changes part upgrades and software changes are all part of putting this issue behind us.
What changes do you speak of? Do we know of any changes Chrysler is implementing between 13 and 14 relating to the 3.6 (besides the oil filter)?
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:38 AM   #5038
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What changes do you speak of? Do we know of any changes Chrysler is implementing between 13 and 14 relating to the 3.6 (besides the oil filter)?
X2 What lubrication changes, parts upgrades, or software updates?
Not sure how changing an o-ring and cap for an oil filter relates to solving the head issue?
If someone has firm evidence to post, then great, let see it, but other than the oil filter, nothing else has changed at this point.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:08 AM   #5039
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X2 What lubrication changes, parts upgrades, or software updates?
Not sure how changing an o-ring and cap for an oil filter relates to solving the head issue?
If someone has firm evidence to post, then great, let see it, but other than the oil filter, nothing else has changed at this point.

You're right. I think the change has something more than uniformity of parts numbers. The O ring and filter might keep the filter from draining down so oil gets to the top of the engine faster when the vehicle sits over night and you fire it first thing in the morning. That will help with ticking and tapping during a cold start.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:21 AM   #5040
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5W20 oil is a change in lubrication for 2013 which gets oil to a cold head quicker. There may be other internal changes that allow that weight oil to be used where on a 2012 it won't work. An early AC head may have different components than a later AC head. A parts catalog comparison between model years will truly indicate internal engine changes. Also engine management software between years (even in the same model year) can change due to design revisions of components or actual field use. Again as an example (just speculation) if you modify say the design of the oil cooler you can change the duty cycle of the oil pump since it is controlled by the engine management system. If you are able to lower under-hood temperatures (Corvette did it by removing a small section of weatherstrip under the hood) maybe the radiator can be a bit smaller or the cooling fan can cycle less). As an example I used to be into Corvettes - early C4 had oil coolers which added weight. In 1992 Corvettes went to synthetic oil which eliminated the need for an oil cooler and it also allowed them to go to a smaller oil filter and about a half quart less oil capacity.

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