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Old 06-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #5101
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That is very interesting. Is there an actual serviceable thermostat in the left head?
That's the side the water pump is on

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Old 06-17-2013, 04:59 PM   #5102
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That's the side the water pump is on
I have to take a look at a picture of the engine and see. Many of us said it was a cooling problem early on. I'd love to see a cutaway picture of an AA and AC head as well, and see what changes they made to the AC head.

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Old 06-17-2013, 05:00 PM   #5103
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Would be nice if you could swap out a thermostat and expect 250k mostly carefree miles from your 3.6.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:03 PM   #5104
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Would be nice if you could swap out a thermostat and expect 250k mostly carefree miles from your 3.6.
It sure would, but I think the engineers working on this problem already thought of that. I would love to see if/when the aftermarket people dig into this engine, and see what they come up with for a cylinder head, or if they'd even bother.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:03 PM   #5105
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Would be nice if you could swap out a thermostat and expect 250k mostly carefree miles from your 3.6.
Doubt it. Probably a new routing for the coolant. Noticed that the new head has my temp gauge BELOW half, formerly ran a bit above
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:14 PM   #5106
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Doubt it. Probably a new routing for the coolant. Noticed that the new head has my temp gauge BELOW half, formerly ran a bit above
I'd love to know the temps of the coolant and the head before and after the head revision. I wonder if they changed the temp of the thermostat as well?
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:28 PM   #5107
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I'd love to know the temps of the coolant and the head before and after the head revision. I wonder if they changed the temp of the thermostat as well?
Sorry all I ever ran were factory gauges. But somebody out there must be pre replacement who had a better gauge set up
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:50 PM   #5108
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Sorry all I ever ran were factory gauges. But somebody out there must be pre replacement who had a better gauge set up

Don't mind me I'm just thinking out loud.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:50 AM   #5109
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Doubt it. Probably a new routing for the coolant. Noticed that the new head has my temp gauge BELOW half, formerly ran a bit above
Interesting! Looks like there may be something to the temp differences between those with failing heads and those that seem to be ok. My temp gauge runs below halfway and I'm still problem free at 9,300 miles. 2012 JKU, July 2011 build date. I also have a 2011 Town and Country with the 3.6L and 22,000 mile without a problem. It runs below halfway on the temp gauge as well.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:19 PM   #5110
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Interesting! Looks like there may be something to the temp differences between those with failing heads and those that seem to be ok. My temp gauge runs below halfway and I'm still problem free at 9,300 miles. 2012 JKU, July 2011 build date. I also have a 2011 Town and Country with the 3.6L and 22,000 mile without a problem. It runs below halfway on the temp gauge as well.
For what it's worth --

I have 10K on mine. It's been ticking since about 3K, and has gotten noticeably worse until now, it is VERY noticeable to everyone except the dealer -- they're pretending it's normal or they can't hear it, effectively forcing me to wait for a MIL illumination (no, it's not the injectors or valvetrain noise).

My temperature reading has, AFAIK, never even hit the halfway mark on the gauge, even with the Jeep loaded full and A/C running at MAX in the middle of August on a long uphill grade.
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Old 06-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #5111
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The temp gauge is a glorified idiot light, no disrespect intended. It gives some vague indication, but actual coolant temp readings between an engine with an AA head, and an engine with the AC head would tell the story about just how much less heat the AC head produces. I'm sure somewhere someone has those numbers.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:13 PM   #5112
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Originally Posted by demarpaint View Post
The temp gauge is a glorified idiot light, no disrespect intended. It gives some vague indication, but actual coolant temp readings between an engine with an AA head, and an engine with the AC head would tell the story about just how much less heat the AC head produces. I'm sure somewhere someone has those numbers.
Frank, did you ever buy a new Jeep yet? Tell me your not waiting for this ticking stuff to completely disappear??

Tell me you finally bought yours.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:36 PM   #5113
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Frank, did you ever buy a new Jeep yet? Tell me your not waiting for this ticking stuff to completely disappear??

Tell me you finally bought yours.
LOL I'm hoping to order in September or October. I decided to wait the 12's out altogether. Now I have to sink some unexpected $$ into the house due to Sandy. When I read of a few 13's with the problem lets just say things worked out well.

I mentioned before I don't need the Jeep I want it, and don't mind waiting. I guess that comes with getting old. Although if I wait too long.............
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:23 PM   #5114
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I have to say, I didn't think mine was ticking until I heard it with the new head. I know the gauge is an idiot stick, but it beats the lamp in my old olds. The real tell tale was the drop in mpg, from 19 to 13
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Old 06-18-2013, 05:54 PM   #5115
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Hey guys. I am new to the forum and don't quite know the procedure but I had to start looking online for some answers. I have 2012 wrangler unlimited sahara with 16,764 miles. I brought it in with check engine light.
Test said it was P0306 No.6 cylinder head misfire. They reset the code, gave it back to me and engine light came back on. Brought it back in and dealership now telling me a cracked cylinder head which needs replacing! They have had my Jeep now for 2 1/2 weeks because they say this part is backordered. Never a good sign. I a just now seeing how many of these are happening. I always had ticking from the day I bought it and just never thought anything of it. Now I think otherwise and I am worried about what this could mean for the future. Kind of bummed out about it.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:44 PM   #5116
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The temp gauge is a glorified idiot light, no disrespect intended. It gives some vague indication, but actual coolant temp readings between an engine with an AA head, and an engine with the AC head would tell the story about just how much less heat the AC head produces. I'm sure somewhere someone has those numbers.
Well it's about useless as an actual gauge because it's not scaled. Having said that, a coolant temp of X should position the needle on the gauge to the same position each time, otherwise it's completely useless as an instrument and shouldn't have been included on the dash in the first place.

So I would partially disagree with your assertion. If one notch below center is determined to be "normal", then it's a useful indicator of trends or minor malfunctions far beyond the ability of an idiot light to represent, which only illuminates after the condition the engineers set for it to light up is met -- which usually means something just went horribly wrong.

But you're correct in saying that it's not much better than an idiot light in that you can't determine the actual coolant temperature. It'd be nice if we knew whether the graduations on the gauge were regular and what the temp was at "normal" position, but that's just asking for too much, I guess -- it probably costs an extra .03 cents to mark each temp gauge, and since the 1,000,000th Wrangler just rolled off the line not too long ago, Chrysler has already saved a cool $30,000 (which they hopefully put toward AC heads) by giving us relatively useless gauges.
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Old 06-19-2013, 04:33 AM   #5117
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Well it's about useless as an actual gauge because it's not scaled. Having said that, a coolant temp of X should position the needle on the gauge to the same position each time, otherwise it's completely useless as an instrument and shouldn't have been included on the dash in the first place.

So I would partially disagree with your assertion. If one notch below center is determined to be "normal", then it's a useful indicator of trends or minor malfunctions far beyond the ability of an idiot light to represent, which only illuminates after the condition the engineers set for it to light up is met -- which usually means something just went horribly wrong.

But you're correct in saying that it's not much better than an idiot light in that you can't determine the actual coolant temperature. It'd be nice if we knew whether the graduations on the gauge were regular and what the temp was at "normal" position, but that's just asking for too much, I guess -- it probably costs an extra .03 cents to mark each temp gauge, and since the 1,000,000th Wrangler just rolled off the line not too long ago, Chrysler has already saved a cool $30,000 (which they hopefully put toward AC heads) by giving us relatively useless gauges.

It has a Normal range. Mid point and slightly above is still considered normal, at least according to the owners manual. We pretty much agree, but because without knowing the actual temperature we don't know the temperature that is causing the failure. Everyone driving with the gauge slightly above the midpoint, according to their owners manual was driving within the normal range, and doing damage at the same time. But according to Mr. Lee temps had nothing to do with it, it was driving habits, conditions, and the gas the stations are pumping. LOL Hopefully this is all water under the bridge now.

It sucks when you think of the cost, and how much they saved by not calibrating it. I think your numbers are pretty much spot on.

Does anyone know if the 2013's are using a different radiator and thermostat than the 2012's? The 2013's did hop on board with the 5W20 oil vs. 5W30 for 2012.
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:16 AM   #5118
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Is this covered by the 100k warranty? I've got 30k on mine and will probably get the tick at 36001 if it's only covered to 36k
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:14 AM   #5119
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It should be, its part of the drivetrain.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:51 PM   #5120
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Well, we've been ticking for a while, and got the CEL a few weeks ago. Took it to the dealer and he flashed the cpu and sent us on our way. CEL was back in no time. Had problems getting a rental from that dealer, so took it to a different dealer this week and just heard that they are ordering lifter parts but no new head. Said if we get a CEL after lifter parts are installed, then they will replace the head, otherwise Chrysler won't let them do it.

This happen to any of y'all? Any magic to just getting the AC head?
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Old 06-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #5121
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Well, we've been ticking for a while, and got the CEL a few weeks ago. Took it to the dealer and he flashed the cpu and sent us on our way. CEL was back in no time. Had problems getting a rental from that dealer, so took it to a different dealer this week and just heard that they are ordering lifter parts but no new head. Said if we get a CEL after lifter parts are installed, then they will replace the head, otherwise Chrysler won't let them do it.

This happen to any of y'all? Any magic to just getting the AC head?
Call Chrysler, open a ticket with them about the tick. Tell them you're not happy About the situation and they will call the dealer and have them replace the head. If you call corporate, they will acknowledge the issue. The dealers just best around the bush as they hate warranty repair work
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #5122
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:54 AM   #5123
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Thanks. The AA head temp was illustrated with a [white dot]. FWIW that temp is normal, when it gets in the red zone that's a problem. The fact that the temp came down with the new head is good, but keep in mind heavy traffic, or putting the engine under load in hot weather could move the temp needle higher, and according to the gauge still be considered normal. I'd love to know the actual temperature difference between both heads, white dot, and the new normal. That might tell a totally different story.
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:45 PM   #5124
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Hey guys. I am new to the forum and don't quite know the procedure but I had to start looking online for some answers. I have 2012 wrangler unlimited sahara with 16,764 miles. I brought it in with check engine light.
Test said it was P0306 No.6 cylinder head misfire. They reset the code, gave it back to me and engine light came back on. Brought it back in and dealership now telling me a cracked cylinder head which needs replacing! They have had my Jeep now for 2 1/2 weeks because they say this part is backordered. Never a good sign. I a just now seeing how many of these are happening. I always had ticking from the day I bought it and just never thought anything of it. Now I think otherwise and I am worried about what this could mean for the future. Kind of bummed out about it.
I am in the exact same boat. I bought a JKU Rubi 2012 in the summer of last year. It always made the "ticking" noise but I never let it bother me. I figured it was a matter of time. Well at 31,000 kms the engine light started to come on and off. Took it in twice, reset it twice. Now a new head is on back-order. We are #508 in line as of 3 weeks ago and no call yet about it coming in. Could be a while.

On the upside. They said to just keep driving it. It runs pretty much the same. Maybe a bit less mileage.

Does anyone know the back-order wait time for Canada?
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:35 AM   #5125
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My '12 ticks the same at just over 7k miles now, hasn't gotten any worse.

Sure there's the warranty in case I get a CEL at 40k. But who's gonna reimburse me for getting 13mpg out of the bad head for 40,000 miles?? And that's while being feather light on the gas in a 2-door soft-top with 3.21's.
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Old 06-21-2013, 06:37 AM   #5126
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Well, we've been ticking for a while, and got the CEL a few weeks ago. Took it to the dealer and he flashed the cpu and sent us on our way. CEL was back in no time. Had problems getting a rental from that dealer, so took it to a different dealer this week and just heard that they are ordering lifter parts but no new head. Said if we get a CEL after lifter parts are installed, then they will replace the head, otherwise Chrysler won't let them do it.

This happen to any of y'all? Any magic to just getting the AC head?
You do realize you are not entitled to a rental car just because your vehicle is in the shop? There is nothing in your warranty saying you get a rental car for repair work. And we have to do the PCM flash before replacing the head. We can't just throw a part on w/o doing certain things first. The flash does fix some vehicles. But just replacing your lifters & rocker arms isn't going to fix our problem. We went down that road when this first started & learned it doesn't help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubicon_Jim
The dealers just best around the bush as they hate warranty repair work
Actually I love to do this repair. This is one of the warranty repairs we do that we can beat the time they pay for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gort
I have 10K on mine. It's been ticking since about 3K, and has gotten noticeably worse until now, it is VERY noticeable to everyone except the dealer -- they're pretending it's normal or they can't hear it, effectively forcing me to wait for a MIL illumination (no, it's not the injectors or valvetrain noise).
Yes it is normal, thats what that big plastic cover is for over the engine. To help hide some of the noise. And again, to folks on here, when we replace your cylinder head we re-use the camshafts, camshaft phaser soleniods, timing chain, timing chain tensioner, all the lifters & all the wocker arms. So your upper valve train is the same & will sound the same.
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:39 AM   #5127
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You do realize you are not entitled to a rental car just because your vehicle is in the shop? There is nothing in your warranty saying you get a rental car for repair work. And we have to do the PCM flash before replacing the head. We can't just throw a part on w/o doing certain things first. The flash does fix some vehicles. But just replacing your lifters & rocker arms isn't going to fix our problem. We went down that road when this first started & learned it doesn't help.

Actually I love to do this repair. This is one of the warranty repairs we do that we can beat the time they pay for it.

Yes it is normal, thats what that big plastic cover is for over the engine. To help hide some of the noise. And again, to folks on here, when we replace your cylinder head we re-use the camshafts, camshaft phaser soleniods, timing chain, timing chain tensioner, all the lifters & all the wocker arms. So your upper valve train is the same & will sound the same.
Is the AC head the fix or not? Are there 2013's with the problem?

Thanks!
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:29 AM   #5128
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I am in the exact same boat. I bought a JKU Rubi 2012 in the summer of last year. It always made the "ticking" noise but I never let it bother me. I figured it was a matter of time. Well at 31,000 kms the engine light started to come on and off. Took it in twice, reset it twice. Now a new head is on back-order. We are #508 in line as of 3 weeks ago and no call yet about it coming in. Could be a while.

On the upside. They said to just keep driving it. It runs pretty much the same. Maybe a bit less mileage.

Does anyone know the back-order wait time for Canada?
They received my head a couple days ago, they told me my jeep should be ready today. You should not have much longer to wait.
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Old 06-21-2013, 09:34 AM   #5129
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They received my head a couple days ago, they told me my jeep should be ready today. You should not have much longer to wait.
Hey cool! Thanks for that.
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Old 06-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #5130
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At 18,000 miles I thought I was good. Two weeks ago the ticking started. Mileage dropped from 18 to 15.

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