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Old 06-22-2013, 10:36 AM   #5131
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.

Yes it is normal, thats what that big plastic cover is for over the engine. To help hide some of the noise. And again, to folks on here, when we replace your cylinder head we re-use the camshafts, camshaft phaser soleniods, timing chain, timing chain tensioner, all the lifters & all the wocker arms. So your upper valve train is the same & will sound the same.

If its normal why don't all Jeeps have the tick? And why does this tick get louder or worse as time/miles go by?
And when mine went in for a head replacement all of those parts you mentioned above were replaced. Is that Chrysler's call or the service center to not replace all those parts?

Just trying to clarify a muddy thread...

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Old 06-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #5132
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If its normal why don't all Jeeps have the tick?
All of Chrysler's 3.6L engines have that "tick" that you're referring to. It's a characteristic sound of all high performance aluminum engines with hot cams and plastic intake manifolds. On the 3.6L engine as installed in the Wrangler the plastic intake manifold makes it especially prominent on the driver's side, because the intake manifold has the effect of concentrating all the sound from all the intake valves to where the air intake from the air filter comes into the manifold (which, uhm, is on the driver's side). There is no mass of pig iron to dampen the sound of the intake valves like on past engines with cast-iron intake manifolds.

On my own Wrangler if I pull the big foam thingie off the top of my engine I can quite clearly hear the valves opening and closing at idle, as well as the cam phasers ticking back and forth as they adjust cam timing. The sound changes based on engine temperature and what kind of oil I most recently put in because those affect the ability of the hydraulic lash adjusters to pump up, but this engine has steep cam ramps and strong valve springs that shut the valves with an audible snap regardless of additional noise caused by the hydraulic lash adjusters not adjusting well. Having heard plenty of other high-performance aluminum engines with hot cams and plastic intake manifolds in my day, including having owned a number of high performance motorcycles, I don't hear anything that says "engine is self destructing." But it's definitely ticking.

Now, in some cases the ticking sound *is* louder, more of a "knock" than the normal snap of intake valves snapping closed. That indicates that either there is an exhaust leak into a part of the engine that it shouldn't be in, or a valve is sticking and getting whacked back up by the explosion of the fuel-air mix, or that one of the hydraulic lash adjusters isn't doing its job at all. But distinguishing an unusual knocking tick of that sort from the regular tick of the valves opening and closing is pretty difficult unless you have a lot of experience with high performance aluminum engines with hot cams and plastic intake manifolds, since they're *all* rather ticky.

Regarding parts reuse of cam, lash adjusters, and rocker arms, I'd be concerned if it were being done without measuring everything to make sure it was in spec. And I have absolutely no doubt that there are dealership mechanics who take shortcuts and don't bother measuring everything to make sure it's still in spec. But if there are no signs of wear and tear on the components and everything measures to spec, we're talking about components that typically last the life of the car. My mother's 1988 Honda Civic had hydraulic lash adjusters similar to the Pentastar's and they were still working just fine at 300,000 miles. I suspect that whether parts are reused or not depends on whether visual inspection at the initial diagnostic visit shows visible wear and tear on the components, since there's no need to replace them if they're still working just fine.

Do note that my Wrangler's engine noise hasn't really changed any in the past 30,000 miles. It had a noisy valve train when new, and has a noisy valve train today. If it got worse with time, I would definitely suspect a problem other than normal engine noise...

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Old 06-22-2013, 10:13 PM   #5133
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With mileage at 14,500 and fairly loud ticking since about 3,000 miles, a CEL came on two weeks ago (P0108 Map Sensor High Voltage). I took my 2012 Jeep Wrangler to the dealership. They flashed the code. Last week, another CEL came on and I again took my Jeep back in to the dealership. This time, Code P0306 came up. A leak-down test failed for cylinder #6. There were vibration marks on end cam lobes on cylinder #6. The head was replaced with an AC head, as well as valves, lifters and rocker components. It is quiet now on driver's side. No change to driving characteristics as my Jeep had good mileage and power before. I will be watching the gas mileage to see if it remains in normal range for mixed driving (18-20). It is a little low now since the head repair, but I have not driven the Jeep much yet. The initial Map Sensor CEL that started this was related, says the dealership. Hopefully, they're right...
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #5134
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Yes it is normal, thats what that big plastic cover is for over the engine. To help hide some of the noise. And again, to folks on here, when we replace your cylinder head we re-use the camshafts, camshaft phaser soleniods, timing chain, timing chain tensioner, all the lifters & all the wocker arms. So your upper valve train is the same & will sound the same.
No -- this noise is NOT normal.

I can tell the difference between the injectors and the tick, which occurs a 1/3 the frequency of the injectors. You sound like the dealer that I took it too that has, so far, failed to "hear" the ticking head twice and also failed to diagnose the blown head gasket in my Grand Cherokee -- not once, but twice. But that's another story. But hey, if you keep denying the problem as long as possible and pretending that it's the "new normal", you might save a few bucks by screwing some customers, right?
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:53 PM   #5135
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All of Chrysler's 3.6L engines have that "tick" that you're referring to. .
The 3.6 equipped JK in my garage at this very moment does not have the "tick" that I and probably everyone else on this thread is talking about.

No need to tell me about how aluminum heads resonate sound and how your moms honda lasted 300K miles. I get that and understand.

The noise and complaints from people and my self on this thread is NOT normal and IS a problem. If it were so normal why is that Chrysler is approving the replacement of a head. Surely they are not spending the money to replace heads solely on a CEL coming on. There is a root problem and one of the symptoms is a TICK.
Again not the normal ticking of injectors or valves. WE GET THAT.
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #5136
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Old 06-23-2013, 12:36 PM   #5137
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If it did they'd really be in trouble.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:41 PM   #5138
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if it did they'd really be in trouble.
true!

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Old 06-23-2013, 01:45 PM   #5139
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If it did they'd really be in trouble.
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true!


If a recall is ever issued they'd be screwed too! They should consider themselves very lucky that it hasn't become a recall issue [unsafe],,,,,,,,,yet!
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #5140
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What are you guys telling friends who ask you about buying a new Jeep?

People know that I have been a Jeep lover for many years and I hate to tell them that they should not buy a new Jeep. I tell them about this huge thread and about the problem that may or may not be resolved by the third design of the driver's side cylinder head and let them make up their own mind.

It bothers me that I cannot wholeheartedly recommend a new Jeep to someone like I had always been able to do before the 2012 model.

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Old 06-23-2013, 02:03 PM   #5141
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What are you guys telling friends who ask you about buying a new Jeep?

People know that I have been a Jeep lover for many years and I hate to tell them that they should not buy a new Jeep. I tell them about this huge thread and about the problem that may or may not be resolved by the third design of the driver's side cylinder head and let them make up their own mind.

It bothers me that I cannot wholeheartedly recommend a new Jeep to someone like I had always been able to do before the 2012 model.

Tomster
I tell them to look into the cylinder head issue and use the info as they see fit to make their decision. I have a buddy across the street that decided to wait a little longer too. I find younger people don't seem to care as much, and the people a little older don't mind waiting to be sure. It all boils down to your comfort level I guess. I would never tell a person their decision, whatever it is was wrong.

Quick funny story on this exact topic. I met a guy in a parking lot with a 2012 JK Rubicon, MINT! I asked him how he liked it, he said he had the head problem, and cautioned me against buying one. I told him I knew all about it from this site and asking around, he said had he known he would never have bought it.
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Old 06-23-2013, 02:07 PM   #5142
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Interesting issue. I bought a new GMC a few years back that quickly developed piston slap from its poorly made Mexican build engines. They addressed the problem early on with repairs for a few people and then, when the problem became much larger, denied it was a problem. My SUV sounded like an old diesel it clattered so badly. I fought the law and the law (GMC) won. I sold it for nearly half what I paid for it.

My Jeep- the engine is quiet so far at 6,000 miles, but the tranny "groans" when cold going up a hill and the brakes "erp" when it goes into gear or brakes are released. Ah the idiosyncrasies of Jeeps. But I still love my Jeep. It has a personality.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:41 PM   #5143
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Here is another question for you '12 and '13 owners. How many of you plan to keep your Wrangler beyond the 5 year warranty period for the power train?
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #5144
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Here is another question for you '12 and '13 owners. How many of you plan to keep your Wrangler beyond the 5 year warranty period for the power train?
Good question~ I have a van that's 26 years old and recently disposed of a vehicle from 93. My newest is an 08. I'd be keeping it a long time which is why I want to be damnnnnnnnnnnn sure the problem is history, and why I follow this thread so closely. My other issue is I'd probably log between 3-4,000 miles a year on it so odds are it would be out of warranty before I had a problem. I bet out of pocket the repair cost would be big $$.
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Old 06-23-2013, 06:44 PM   #5145
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Here is another question for you '12 and '13 owners. How many of you plan to keep your Wrangler beyond the 5 year warranty period for the power train?
I'll keep mine because its a COD 12 model

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Old 06-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #5146
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So, I was out at the local off road park in (very) warm Oklahoma today, and I now have a loud ticking noise coming for the driver side of my 2012's engine bay. It's got 12,000 miles. My question to those that have had the tick is, does it get louder with driving? When I am accelerating, the tick is downright LOUD. If I'm on the interstate next to center divider, the tick is quite annoying. This story sound familiar? Or am I dealing with another problem?
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Old 06-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #5147
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Ticking Sound

You probably have a bad head. If the ticking is loud now, it may not get any worse. You may even not experience any falling mileage or loss of power. Mine didn't, but it threw its first CEL at 14,500 and was ticking loudly since 3,000 miles. My recommendation:

1) Open a case with Chrysler Care on the ticking. Tell them when it started to happen and that you're not happy about it.
2) Take the Jeep into a Chrysler/Jeep dealership that can confirm the unusual ticking noise from the driver's side head, if possible. You may have to try a few dealerships until you find one that isn't BSing you.
3) Wait for a CEL to come on, as it probably will sooner or later due to number of mis-fires on the affected cylinder. Even if they flash it and reset to a higher miss threshhold, it will eventually come back on. At that point take it back in to confirm the CEL is from the mis-fires on the affected cylinder. If it is a mis-fire CEL again, they will do a leak-down test on the affected cylinder and it will likely fail, necessitating a new head to be put on.
4) At that point, call Chrysler Care to update them and where you will be taking the Jeep for repairs. Advise them, if you have no other car, that you will need a rental. Chrysler Care will handle/intercede on that, if the dealership is not helping you on the rental.
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Old 06-23-2013, 09:12 PM   #5148
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You probably have a bad head. If the ticking is loud now, it may not get any worse. You may even not experience any falling mileage or loss of power. Mine didn't, but it threw its first CEL at 14,500 and was ticking loudly since 3,000 miles. My recommendation:

1) Open a case with Chrysler Care on the ticking. Tell them when it started to happen and that you're not happy about it.
2) Take the Jeep into a Chrysler/Jeep dealership that can confirm the unusual ticking noise from the driver's side head, if possible. You may have to try a few dealerships until you find one that isn't BSing you.
3) Wait for a CEL to come on, as it probably will sooner or later due to number of mis-fires on the affected cylinder. Even if they flash it and reset to a higher miss threshhold, it will eventually come back on. At that point take it back in to confirm the CEL is from the mis-fires on the affected cylinder. If it is a mis-fire CEL again, they will do a leak-down test on the affected cylinder and it will likely fail, necessitating a new head to be put on.
4) At that point, call Chrysler Care to update them and where you will be taking the Jeep for repairs. Advise them, if you have no other car, that you will need a rental. Chrysler Care will handle/intercede on that, if the dealership is not helping you on the rental.
Thanks for your help
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:36 AM   #5149
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[QUOTE="Lbear;3891285"]Interesting issue. I bought a new GMC a few years back that quickly developed piston slap from its poorly made Mexican build engines/QUOTE]

I had a Toyota 4.7 V8 with the same problem. Piston slap actually results from a design issue (shallow skirt pistons to reduce reciprocating mass) not poor assembly. FWIW, Toyota claimed it was normal also.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:00 AM   #5150
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[QUOTE=EricM;3893985]
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Interesting issue. I bought a new GMC a few years back that quickly developed piston slap from its poorly made Mexican build engines/QUOTE]

I had a Toyota 4.7 V8 with the same problem. Piston slap actually results from a design issue (shallow skirt pistons to reduce reciprocating mass) not poor assembly. FWIW, Toyota claimed it was normal also.

While piston slap is annoying the engine will function properly with it. This head issue is a problem that will result in a CEL which will fail state inspection in many states, and an engine that isn't running properly.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:34 PM   #5151
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I have a question I'm at 33000 miles on my 12 wrangler and check my dates (which are in the dates of the bad head manufacturing) when it was manufactured so far I have had no problem and I drive it like hell I was wondering if I had/have the problem does how u drive it effect when the head goes or is the head just going to go when it goes
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Old 06-25-2013, 01:07 PM   #5152
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I also drive it like hell, head replace at 27000.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:33 AM   #5153
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My CEL came on two days ago at 26k miles.
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:25 PM   #5154
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I have 12 Arctic with 20156 miles and it has been ticking since about 4k miles. At each service the dealer has noted the issue but at my last service they said a bulletin(service update) was issued on 25 May to have the valves and tappets inspected. Today was my apt and they did the inspection and had to order both valves and tappets for the repair. According to the service manager this could be the cause for the tapping since I have not had the CEL...By the way those parts are on back order and they put my Jeep back together and told me to continue to drive it...Not sure when the parts will be available...Also this tapping is not on all JK's as I have a 13 JK as well and have no ticking what so ever...
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:39 PM   #5155
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Most 3.6s have a tap to them I've noticed. I spend all day with them at the dealership here. I noticed that mine has a tap periodically as well. Nothing that has made me want to have it looked at though. I am curious to hear what everyone with the 2012's are hearing. I have a 13 and from what I heard they're cured. I tell you what, I jumped up to 5w30 full synthetic and it quited up the motor a bit and Im getting 2 more miles to the gallon all around. Either way, anyone with the 13's having troubles?
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Old 06-26-2013, 06:52 PM   #5156
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And I am not denying you 2012 owners are having issues, I am saying I want to hear the difference between the normal taping and the bad head tapping.
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Old 06-26-2013, 08:41 PM   #5157
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And I am not denying you 2012 owners are having issues, I am saying I want to hear the difference between the normal taping and the bad head tapping.
I want to too because I don't know If I have it or not and videos don't help 100%
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:33 PM   #5158
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I have a 2013 built in March 2013, how can I tell which head i have and Is mine manufactured when the have "fixed" the problem?
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:10 AM   #5159
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With mileage at 14,500 and fairly loud ticking since about 3,000 miles, a CEL came on two weeks ago (P0108 Map Sensor High Voltage). I took my 2012 Jeep Wrangler to the dealership. They flashed the code. Last week, another CEL came on and I again took my Jeep back in to the dealership. This time, Code P0306 came up. A leak-down test failed for cylinder #6. There were vibration marks on end cam lobes on cylinder #6. The head was replaced with an AC head, as well as valves, lifters and rocker components. It is quiet now on driver's side. No change to driving characteristics as my Jeep had good mileage and power before. I will be watching the gas mileage to see if it remains in normal range for mixed driving (18-20). It is a little low now since the head repair, but I have not driven the Jeep much yet. The initial Map Sensor CEL that started this was related, says the dealership. Hopefully, they're right...
Ditto at 9500mi except for MAP sensor. Your problems should be over. -Now at 27Kmi no problems except dealer drives it in deep and hard when I ask for Synthetic oil. Changed the diff fluids myself - easy job and saved $270. Rear diff fluid was pretty black and needed it. Replaced with Mobil1.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:22 AM   #5160
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I want to too because I don't know If I have it or not and videos don't help 100%
The original video on this nailed it, but I didn't realize it until after the head change. All the 3.6's sound like a sewing machine with 24 valves slapping around in a plastic engine, what would you expect. The difference to me was a one out of 12 cadence of a tick twice as loud as the others, exactly as in the video on the drivers side. tik tik tik tik tik tik TICK tik tik tik tik tik. Dealer kept telling me the noise was normal injector noise (The big Lie) until CEL came on. Then new head, no more TICK.

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