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Old 07-19-2012, 03:15 PM   #1531
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Originally Posted by pdubois64

Normal.
Yes

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Old 07-19-2012, 04:45 PM   #1532
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Originally Posted by pdubois64

How many miles? kind of important info here.

How many miles? kind of important info here.

I have 3000 miles on mine and it's probably the quietest engine I own. Jan build, although build date doesn't seem to matter anymore.
1500 miles now

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Old 07-19-2012, 05:10 PM   #1533
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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh h!!!!!!!!!

TRUCK, DUCK, BUCK, SUCK, KUCK, BAD LUCK F***!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

where's the poll thread? change my vote...

sign me up as having my Pentastar ripped apart for new heads. build date 09282011

took it in for exhaust leak sound and intermittent valve tapping/pinging

i'm sick.....
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:48 AM   #1534
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Better look in to that extended warranty.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:12 AM   #1535
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Every one of these vehicles built prior to July 2012 will eventually succumb to this problem. There are none that will avoid it. Just because yours is fine now means nothing. Count on replacing the heads. If you're lucky it will be later after they have run off enough replacement supply that it won't be a 3+ week wait for repair. Mine is fine for now with good power and 22mpg on my daily commute but I am under no illusions that it won't eventually pop a CEL and start exhibiting issues. This is a major fustercluck.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:18 AM   #1536
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Every one of these vehicles built prior to July 2012 will eventually succumb to this problem. There are none that will avoid it. Just because yours is fine now means nothing. Count on replacing the heads. If you're lucky it will be later after they have run off enough replacement supply that it won't be a 3+ week wait for repair. Mine is fine for now with good power and 22mpg on my daily commute but I am under no illusions that it won't eventually pop a CEL and start exhibiting issues. This is a major fustercluck.
While I'm at it, I'll go ahead and cover my head with tin foil so aliens don't read my mind.

If I do by any chance manage to run into this issue, I'll even post a pic of myself with tin foil on my head. Until then, I'll enjoy putting miles on someone else's car for three weeks, as I do a hell of a lot of driving for work.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:19 PM   #1537
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My 2012 JK has 1,300 miles on it (12/2011 build date), and sounds like a quiet desiel engine. I've posted a YouTube video of the sound. Can anyone tell me whether this sounds is within the "normal" range of sounds, or if it is problematic? Thank you!

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Old 07-20-2012, 01:38 PM   #1538
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Has anybody found any info on when Chrysler stopped using the bad heads? Is there a specific build date that the change was made or are they still sending out bad heads?
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:36 PM   #1539
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Originally Posted by bdcvg
Has anybody found any info on when Chrysler stopped using the bad heads? Is there a specific build date that the change was made or are they still sending out bad heads?
No specific date but the allpar article says this (June 25th is the date of the first report, July 7th is the date of the article update)

"A fix was engineered and entered production by the time of our first report; at that time, tooling was being created and tested, and the backlog of replacement heads was being addressed. At this time, all heads being made are of the new design, and parts have been sent to dealers."
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #1540
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Every one of these vehicles built prior to July 2012 will eventually succumb to this problem. There are none that will avoid it. Just because yours is fine now means nothing. Count on replacing the heads. If you're lucky it will be later after they have run off enough replacement supply that it won't be a 3+ week wait for repair. Mine is fine for now with good power and 22mpg on my daily commute but I am under no illusions that it won't eventually pop a CEL and start exhibiting issues. This is a major fustercluck.
Agreed.

The fix required a reengineer/retool of the cylinder head. If this was an assembly line mistake, I could see it only affecting a few 3.6's, it was not. This could eventually affect all engines prior to the reengineer/retool.

I think Chrysler is past due to step up and provide the official cause and number of affected engines.

This is also not the first Pentastar issue--

Chrysler To Replace Engine on 2012 Dodge Charger, Other Vehicles in Recall
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:16 PM   #1541
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Great. My 99 TJ developed a really bad tick... a few weeks before the motor went "boom", hence resulting in my '12 JKUS :-D

If I recall... mine has is March 2012 build, bought 5/2012. Only at around 1500 miles or so, but I'll be watching out for it.
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Old 07-21-2012, 11:16 AM   #1542
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No specific date but the allpar article says this (June 25th is the date of the first report, July 7th is the date of the article update)

"A fix was engineered and entered production by the time of our first report; at that time, tooling was being created and tested, and the backlog of replacement heads was being addressed. At this time, all heads being made are of the new design, and parts have been sent to dealers."

Hmmm with a June 6 2012 build date , I guess i'm in the running for the failure.
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Old 07-21-2012, 03:20 PM   #1543
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Wow, if every Pentastar engine (well over a million) built up to July is faulty then Chrysler may be going the way of the dinosaur every one of those heads replaced would run in the billions.
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Old 07-21-2012, 04:19 PM   #1544
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Every one of these vehicles built prior to July 2012 will eventually succumb to this problem. There are none that will avoid it. Just because yours is fine now means nothing. Count on replacing the heads. If you're lucky it will be later after they have run off enough replacement supply that it won't be a 3+ week wait for repair. Mine is fine for now with good power and 22mpg on my daily commute but I am under no illusions that it won't eventually pop a CEL and start exhibiting issues. This is a major fustercluck.
What proof do you have that every vehicle in the time frame has this flaw?
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:16 PM   #1545
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What proof do you have that every vehicle in the time frame has this flaw?
as far as i know.....NONE. i agree. it cant be every one from july 11 till june 12.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #1546
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Agreed.

The fix required a reengineer/retool of the cylinder head. If this was an assembly line mistake, I could see it only affecting a few 3.6's, it was not. This could eventually affect all engines prior to the reengineer/retool.

I think Chrysler is past due to step up and provide the official cause and number of affected engines.

This is also not the first Pentastar issue--

Chrysler To Replace Engine on 2012 Dodge Charger, Other Vehicles in Recall
That was an early issue related to poor cleaning techniques used after the casting of the engine blocks. They don't have freeze out plugs and cleaning sand and debris from assembly was a problem early on. That was the first issue with this engine they had, the ticking head is worse, but that fix is now supposed to be in production. Time will tell.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:09 AM   #1547
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I guess it comes down to how many of their milling machines had the bad tooling. With the volume of engines they produce there has to be more than one mill.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:23 AM   #1548
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The fix required a reengineer/retool of the cylinder head. If this was an assembly line mistake, I could see it only affecting a few 3.6's, it was not.
Well, I've done manufacturing before and I'll tell you that we've re-engineered one of our products before *not* because the product doesn't work well under normal use, *but* because it was too difficult to manufacture correctly and *know* it was manufactured correctly. So the fact that Chrysler has re-engineered the head slightly doesn't necessarily mean all the heads were bad, what it may mean is that they found the flaw, but making sure that future heads don't have a similar flaw due to misaligned bore tool or whatever required some modifications to make sure it could be easily caught on the assembly line.

Or it may mean that they re-engineered some things to be a little more tolerant of errors, for that matter. My understanding is that they're adding more metal to a part of the head. Given the way the thin-wall aluminum casting process works and the fact that the problem appears semi-randomly, it may be that porosity caused issues, this is a casting flaw that will affect castings randomly. It may be that there simply was no way to catch the problem on the assembly line so the solution was to add more metal so that if the casting flaw occurs, it's harmless.

But again, the fact that they've apparently re-engineered at least one head doesn't necessarily mean that *every* head is going to go bad. It's possible, of course, but I checked Chrysler's last quarterly financial statements to see if they'd raised the amount of money they're legally required to put aside to handle future warranty claims and they haven't. So they apparently don't believe it's going to affect sufficient vehicles to raise their overall warranty expenses, for whatever that's worth.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:41 AM   #1549
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Well, I've done manufacturing before and I'll tell you that we've re-engineered one of our products before *not* because the product doesn't work well under normal use, *but* because it was too difficult to manufacture correctly and *know* it was manufactured correctly. So the fact that Chrysler has re-engineered the head slightly doesn't necessarily mean all the heads were bad, what it may mean is that they found the flaw, but making sure that future heads don't have a similar flaw due to misaligned bore tool or whatever required some modifications to make sure it could be easily caught on the assembly line.

Or it may mean that they re-engineered some things to be a little more tolerant of errors, for that matter. My understanding is that they're adding more metal to a part of the head. Given the way the thin-wall aluminum casting process works and the fact that the problem appears semi-randomly, it may be that porosity caused issues, this is a casting flaw that will affect castings randomly. It may be that there simply was no way to catch the problem on the assembly line so the solution was to add more metal so that if the casting flaw occurs, it's harmless.

But again, the fact that they've apparently re-engineered at least one head doesn't necessarily mean that *every* head is going to go bad. It's possible, of course, but I checked Chrysler's last quarterly financial statements to see if they'd raised the amount of money they're legally required to put aside to handle future warranty claims and they haven't. So they apparently don't believe it's going to affect sufficient vehicles to raise their overall warranty expenses, for whatever that's worth.
Good info. I'd love to hear from one of our resident Chrysler employees what's really going on, but no one will comment. It would be really nice to put this all to rest going forward. To know the problem was fixed and implemented into the 2013 MY. It would certainly help some of us on the fence waiting to buy because of this, to move forward.

Right now we have an is ALLPAR article and a lot of speculation. JMO

BTW I do believe there is a fix, I'm just not sure if all the early 2013's will have it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #1550
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Ticking Pentastar

After 3 attempts and 3 weeks at the dealer I got our 2012 Rubicon back. It had over 18k miles when it was taken in and got a new head on it. Had it back about 10 days; so far so good. Even getting about 1.5 more MPG since I got it back.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:50 AM   #1551
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Right now we have an ALLPAR article and a lot of speculation. JMO
Well, and Chrysler quarterly financial statements, which don't show the increase we'd expect in warranty expenses or reserves that we'd see if Chrysler internally believed this was a problem that'd affect all 1M+ Pentastar engines that have previously been sold. Of course, SEC filings get re-stated all the time, so (shrug). Still not enough information -- one article, 12 quarters worth of financial statements, and a lot of speculation will buy you a small cup of coffee if you throw in $1 too.
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:06 PM   #1552
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Well, and Chrysler quarterly financial statements, which don't show the increase we'd expect in warranty expenses or reserves that we'd see if Chrysler internally believed this was a problem that'd affect all 1M+ Pentastar engines that have previously been sold. Of course, SEC filings get re-stated all the time, so (shrug). Still not enough information -- one article, 12 quarters worth of financial statements, and a lot of speculation will buy you a small cup of coffee if you throw in $1 too.
I said the info was good. In fact let me add probably some of the best info I've read so far. I'd just love to know if the fix is implemented into the early 2013's from someone on the inside that's all. But that probably can't or won't happen.
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Old 07-22-2012, 01:13 PM   #1553
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April 15/12 build date picked up 1st week of June. No problems yet.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:38 PM   #1554
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Re Charger engine recall -Chrysler launched an internal investigation to evaluate the 3.6-liter V6 engines from its Saltillo South Engine Plant in Mexico because of "suspect quality audit results," according to company documentation filed with the federal government.
Doesn't surprise me. They need to put more QC in the Mexico facility.
I tried to get some info from my friend on the GC line in Detroit, but no luck.

-Still love my Jeep though, and it only took 'em 4 hours to replace my head. Kudos to the dealership for having heads in stock.
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:22 PM   #1555
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I'm curious in those of you that have gotten heads replaced, what gearing do you have in your axles? Reason I ask, because the mileage numbers are so spread out (some at less than 2k and some I've seen as high as 18k when the light comes on) I'm wondering if gearing has any effect? My motor is definitely ticking. I've gotten the standard "its an injector" from my local dealership. I've had two mechanics from different lines (Mercedes and Ford) listen and they both agree its abnormal. I just rolled over 10k with no cel. I have 3.21s though which has me thinking the rigs with shorter gears are revving higher more often which may trigger the misfires. Also rigs with lifts and more load may cause detonation sooner too. I know there was a poll going but it doesn't seem like anyone has been collecting data from the rigs with heads being replaced.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:43 AM   #1556
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I'm curious in those of you that have gotten heads replaced, what gearing do you have in your axles? Reason I ask, because the mileage numbers are so spread out (some at less than 2k and some I've seen as high as 18k when the light comes on) I'm wondering if gearing has any effect? My motor is definitely ticking. I've gotten the standard "its an injector" from my local dealership. I've had two mechanics from different lines (Mercedes and Ford) listen and they both agree its abnormal. I just rolled over 10k with no cel. I have 3.21s though which has me thinking the rigs with shorter gears are revving higher more often which may trigger the misfires. Also rigs with lifts and more load may cause detonation sooner too. I know there was a poll going but it doesn't seem like anyone has been collecting data from the rigs with heads being replaced.
I have the 3.21 as well. I thought I had ticking but after reading these posts I believe mine is normal and not "diesel engine" sounding. My build date is same as yours but I don't drive much and have 1400 miles
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:42 PM   #1557
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i too have 3:21's and have wondered the same... wouldn't the "taller" gears lug more on the engine? Perhaps Chrysler LLC shouldn't offer 3:21's in the wrangler!

..took mine in for what sounds like a [slight] exhaust leak and [occasional] valve pinging. i took her too the local OlllllllO dealership and not the 30-mile-away Site-Of-Purchase dealership. dude behind the counter, walks outside with me and sticks his head under the hood with a close ear for a good couple minutes ... .... .... turned, gave me that look and said; "THAT's EXACTLY how the other's sounded" He went on to say his dealership has done 3 pentastar/wrangler's with the bad heads.. that i never asked about.

he said he had to contact "star" [who/whatever the hell that is] and he'd be contacting me soon.

well, that was thursday and tomorrows tuesday.. i'm taking it to the SOP dealer for a second opinion. where a MECHANIC will look at the rig.. i had made an appointment with the closer-to-my-house Jeep dealer.. where some guy behind the counter gave the prognosis... i don't think so.. is this how out of network dealerships operate? geezus..

i'll keep yinz posted.. [this 3:21 gearing thing has me wondering]
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Old 07-23-2012, 05:23 PM   #1558
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Spoke to the dealership today. They said the district manager gave them an estimate of 2 weeks from today for the head to arrive. I dropped it off last Wednesday, so by the time they install it, we're talking 3 weeks.

I asked them for the part # and order #. I asked if the part # indicated whether this was the new head or not. They said, this is a new part # that supercedes the old part, so the dealerships are only able to order the new heads now. I hope that's right. Anyway, now hopefully anyone wondering whether they have the new head or old head, can check by asking which part # it is.

The part # is: RL141353AB

I did some research. The old part is: RL141353AA

I called Chrysler and opened a case, giving them the part# and order #. The case has been forwarded to the case management department. I'm supposed to receive a call by tomorrow 8 PM at the latest. I'm hoping they'll try to get the part sooner.
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:19 PM   #1559
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CANCEL ENGINE REPAIR COMMENTS [for now]

ok. took her to the dealership of origin this morning.. it was recommended that i use higher than 87 octane for the pinging.. and the exhaust leakesque noise was nothing they could identify as out-of-the-ordinary..

filled her up with Exxon 93o on the way home. i know that much octane isn't needed.. but wanted to compensate for the remaining crap junk in the tank... all my subsequent tanks will be 89o.. that said. NO MORE PINGING! despite what your Wrangler's OM states, Pentastar engines DO NOT like 87 octane

i suppose the exhaust sound shouldn't get my panties in such a bunch. it's really only noticeable in tunnels and next to walls [drive through]

i'll keep driving her and loving life until a CEL tells me otherwise.. crisis adverted. second opinion wise
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Old 07-24-2012, 06:30 PM   #1560
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@jkwrangler2012 .... i just spent $65 on a full tank of 87 today. if a mere .10 cent per gallon switch helps in any way, i'll be doing the same.

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