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Old 08-12-2012, 01:36 PM   #1861
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Fair enough. Okay - what about rumors of a "restricted VIN" list that shows which JKs may be infected?

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Old 08-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #1862
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:53 PM   #1863
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Fair enough. Okay - what about rumors of a "restricted VIN" list that shows which JKs may be infected?
According to this allpar.com article, The Trenton Engine South plant for building the Pentastar V6, Chrysler should know exactly when and where every bad head was cast, milled, and installed, and what JKs have heads with the same history.

I've never read anything about a secret list of susceptible JKs though.

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From the allpar article:

Each major component has an individual identification number ... stamped on it and a radio frequency tag. They know what time each part went into a particular machine. If there is a problem with a part, itís easy to find! They know what parts are on what engines!
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:21 PM   #1864
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All engines made in Trenton. They are cast and rough machined someplace else but final manning is done in Trenton. Some parts (I'm not sue about engine parts) made in Mexico. Everything I have read says the machining is done in Trenton.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:24 PM   #1865
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Originally Posted by 2012-Rubicon

I don't consider major engine work a "teething issue" a bad fuel cap, maybe. But not a damn cylinder head.
Yanking a cylinder head is not really "major" engine work.
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Old 08-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #1866
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I'm heavily favoring the theory that this is a design issue; not a question of defective heads or bad workmanship. Not sure if Chrysler knows what the cause is, but I suspect we may never know. They will simply keep replacing heads and avoid a recall. A recall would not help unless they knew what the issue truly is. Plus, as others have implied, a recall would wreck their income statement.

However, if the design is an issue and they keep using the 3.6 as it is, it could really become a scary financial issue for them a couple of years down the road.
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:29 PM   #1867
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Production on the new heads began in late June or early July.
So all 2013's and late 2012 builds should not have the head issue?
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Old 08-12-2012, 06:47 PM   #1868
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We have had some July build 2012's with the problem, I believe, but they could have still gotten heads of the original design.

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Old 08-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #1869
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Originally Posted by wickedsprint

Yanking a cylinder head is not really "major" engine work.
Ru shitting me? Do you even know what an engine looks like? A cylinder head on a DOHC VVT engine were not talking about a cylinder head on a dirt bike here. Sure its not a bore and stroke job but that's about as serious as it gets for a stock engine. Only thing worse would be if cranks were blowing apart.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:23 PM   #1870
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Originally Posted by 2012-Rubicon

Ru shitting me? Do you even know what an engine looks like?
I wouldn't shit you; you're my favorite turd

Yeah, it's tedious due to the cam layout etc but ultimately not "major" engine work.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:04 AM   #1871
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I wouldn't shit you; you're my favorite turd

Yeah, it's tedious due to the cam layout etc but ultimately not "major" engine work.
I agree with this.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:19 AM   #1872
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I'd call it major engine work, and something I wouldn't be happy with having done to a new vehicle. Lots of things can go wrong too after the work is done. Like coolant leaks, oil leaks, over heating, and getting the vehicle messed up possibly by having a poor worker doing the job. You could also get a very slow coolant leak going into the oil, which can damage bearings over time, which can be difficult to detect for some people. Bottom line is it is not a small job like changing a bad coil pack to eliminate a miss. You're tearing off the top of the engine.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:45 AM   #1873
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:11 AM   #1874
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
I'd call it major engine work, and something I wouldn't be happy with having done to a new vehicle. Lots of things can go wrong too after the work is done. Like coolant leaks, oil leaks, over heating, and getting the vehicle messed up possibly by having a poor worker doing the job. You could also get a very slow coolant leak going into the oil, which can damage bearings over time, which can be difficult to detect for some people. Bottom line is it is not a small job like changing a bad coil pack to eliminate a miss. You're tearing off the top of the engine.
Choose a reputable dealer that follows their tech data. If you're super anal run an oil analysis.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:38 AM   #1875
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Great find! Thanks for posting. IMO anyone with a CEL and ticking should print this out and take it to the dealer with their Jeep...
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:07 AM   #1876
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #1877
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He said the malfunctions were the result of "an interaction of a lot of rare things that ultimately come together to affect a small percentage of the population." Those could include different fuel mixes and the way the vehicle is driven, he said, though he did not explain further.

Lee said there are limits to the percentage of Pentastars that will experience the malfunction because of the variables involved.

"You have to have this fuel characteristic, you have to have this drive cycle -- and all of these things have to line up in order to have this situation occur," Lee said. "That's why" the number of potentially affected engines "is so small. If it were a design defect, or if it affected [a basic component] like the integrated exhaust, we'd have issues on everything, which we don't."


What? They know the combination of things that cause the problem, but won't tell us and then say just replacing a head fixes it? Something's not right in all of that
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:25 AM   #1878
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He said the malfunctions were the result of "an interaction of a lot of rare things that ultimately come together to affect a small percentage of the population."
Yeah, like staring it and driving it, lol. They are so full of crap their eyes are Brown.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #1879
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He said the malfunctions were the result of "an interaction of a lot of rare things that ultimately come together to affect a small percentage of the population." Those could include different fuel mixes and the way the vehicle is driven, he said, though he did not explain further.
To the bolded: is it me, or does that almost sound like he's implying driver accountability in this?

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Old 08-13-2012, 10:35 AM   #1880
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To the bolded: is it me, or does that almost sound like he's implying driver accountability in this?

Yup, that's what BMW tried until people started to make them prove that they had driven it abnormally. Since our laws are innocent until proven guilty, BMW had to back off of those accusations when tested. BUT, if a small % of people fell for it and paid up, then that was "x" amount of $$ that BMW saved....
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:42 AM   #1881
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Yup, that's what BMW tried until people started to make them prove that they had driven it abnormally
Yeah Chrysler would have a tough time with that one. How you drive a Jeep "abnormally" would be a mystery. Lol.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:48 AM   #1882
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Choose a reputable dealer that follows their tech data. If you're super anal run an oil analysis.
I can choose a dealer I can't choose who they employ. I've worked at 5 different dealerships when I was in car sales. I saw first hand what went on in the shops, there were some good techs and some bad techs. You really don't know who you're going to get.

As far as oil analysis, I know about it, and I see you do, most of the auto driving public never heard of it.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:52 AM   #1883
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Yeah Chrysler would have a tough time with that one. How you drive a Jeep "abnormally" would be a mystery. Lol.
Ha, on my 97 with like 10k miles, I drove through a little water (about 24") that ruined my throttle body sensor and they said since it had just flooded in Va Beach, they wasn't going to warrant it. I went to the lounge and came back with an add from Jeep, with a Jeep in water 1/2 up the doors. I also found a crack on the module and pointed it out to them. They fixed it....
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:55 AM   #1884
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He said the malfunctions were the result of "an interaction of a lot of rare things that ultimately come together to affect a small percentage of the population." Those could include different fuel mixes and the way the vehicle is driven, he said, though he did not explain further.

Lee said there are limits to the percentage of Pentastars that will experience the malfunction because of the variables involved.

"You have to have this fuel characteristic, you have to have this drive cycle -- and all of these things have to line up in order to have this situation occur," Lee said. "That's why" the number of potentially affected engines "is so small. If it were a design defect, or if it affected [a basic component] like the integrated exhaust, we'd have issues on everything, which we don't."


What? They know the combination of things that cause the problem, but won't tell us and then say just replacing a head fixes it? Something's not right in all of that
I guess I wasn't the only one who thought it was lame. The flip side is at least they are admitting a problem, shifting blame in a way but admitting it. Their reasons for the problem are lame, and they left me scratching my head thinking that anyone driving one of these just has to put these things in order along with fuel characteristics and they could have the problem. WTF? I think they should have spent more time composing before allowing it to go to print.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:02 AM   #1885
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This is the way that I see it. You have bean counters that analyze the best ways to keep profit even if problems occur. If they know that they will have "x" amount of failures and acknowledge them all. They are going to have to she'll out a hell of a lot of profit. But if they try (which isn't illegal) to make people think that it was their fault and knowing most people aren't that dumb, they would still have saved "xx" amount in the long run.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:08 AM   #1886
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so what happens after 100,000 miles or five years and I have this "perfect storm" of crappy gas and drive cycle and my head takes a dump? wtf? i'm wondering if people are running 92 octane or higher that are getting the cel or 87 or lower. i need to figure out this perfect storm so i can screw my shit up and get it fixed already...lol maybe some 110 will do it? yeah right! fry the whole enchilada!!
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:10 AM   #1887
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i need to find the crappiest gas possible and run that for a couple tanks...lol
this perfect storm crap does kinda explain the wide range of mileages that we have seen the failures.....B.S.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #1888
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so what happens after 100,000 miles or five years and I have this "perfect storm" of crappy gas and drive cycle and my head takes a dump?
You swap in a Hemi and smile, or thats my backup plan.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #1889
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so what happens after 100,000 miles or five years and I have this "perfect storm" of crappy gas and drive cycle and my head takes a dump? wtf? i'm wondering if people are running 92 octane or higher that are getting the cel or 87 or lower. i need to figure out this perfect storm so i can screw my shit up and get it fixed already...lol maybe some 110 will do it? yeah right! fry the whole enchilada!!
I use 87 in mine and just added my first bottle of Techron that I will add every 10k. Hey, I called out your boy Tomster on his trolling again. Lol.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:28 AM   #1890
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You swap in a Hemi and smile, or thats my backup plan.
I like that plan, only I didn't realize it cost so much.

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