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Old 08-14-2012, 04:12 PM   #1981
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Originally Posted by sonofboxster View Post
Redesigning the head should have been pretty straightforward once they knew what the problem was. Analyse coolant flow for dead spots, increase the area of certain coolant chambers, increase the thickness of aluminum walls in certain areas.

Chrysler will probably extend a lifetime warranty for this entire run of flawed heads, even tho they will not be able to publicize it. They have to replace heads gradually as they fail, as opposed to all at once in a recall, to spread the cost over time.

New vehicles after a certain build date should be OK.
Wouldn't there be a likelihood that there would be a way to see the differences externally? Where can we look to see if there are differences?

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:19 PM   #1982
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Anyone else find some irony in the idea that this problem doesn't appear to be hurting Wrangler sales in any significant way. Rather, it's HELPING sales of extended warranties.
Can you buy an OEM extended warranty after delivery?

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Old 08-14-2012, 04:49 PM   #1983
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Redesigning the head should have been pretty straightforward once they knew what the problem was. Analyse coolant flow for dead spots, increase the area of certain coolant chambers, increase the thickness of aluminum walls in certain areas.

Chrysler will probably extend a lifetime warranty for this entire run of flawed heads, even tho they will not be able to publicize it. They have to replace heads gradually as they fail, as opposed to all at once in a recall, to spread the cost over time.

New vehicles after a certain build date should be OK.
Whoa, careful not to throw opinion around as if you're so sure..unless your name is Mike Manly you can't back any of that up. I love the positivity, but none of us are in the clear yet.
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:57 PM   #1984
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Can you buy an OEM extended warranty after delivery?
Yes. All the way up until . . . I want to say 12k miles?? Something like that. I would say send a PM to Pat (here) to discuss the specifics. You should be aware that the prices are negotiable.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:52 PM   #1985
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Can you buy an OEM extended warranty after delivery?
Yes you can. I bought mine 6 months after I got the Jeep. Make sure you negotiate the price. I was initially quoted $3500 for the lifetime warranty and ended up shopping around and getting it for $1800.

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Old 08-14-2012, 08:59 PM   #1986
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Originally Posted by demarpaint View Post
Chrysler says the problem, which it does not
describe in detail, is not a design defect and
occurs only in in combination with an unspecified
fuel mix and undisclosed driving conditions.

LOL- And when you find the winning combination, the specified fuel mix, and then disclose to them the driving conditions you get a new head! WOW
That's exactly what I was getting at. I'm still dumbfounded they said that publicly. I hope that wasn't someone's idea of damage control. "Oh, don't worry. We know exactly what causes the problem: it's you, your driving habits, and your fuel. Our head isn't defective. In fact it works fine until you drive your vehicle."
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Old 08-14-2012, 09:11 PM   #1987
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Originally Posted by JamesWyatt

That's exactly what I was getting at. I'm still dumbfounded they said that publicly. I hope that wasn't someone's idea of damage control. "Oh, don't worry. We know exactly what causes the problem: it's you, your driving habits, and your fuel. Our head isn't defective. In fact it works fine until you drive your vehicle."
Haha...works fine until you drive your vehicle
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Old 08-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #1988
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I'll be going for first oil change next week on a 2012. Should I go for 5w20 or 30?
5W-20 is a compromise oil and likely wouldn't exist except for getting an (almost unmeasureable) increase in fuel economy in response to CAFE.

5W-30 is presently specified for the Pentastar. If they go for 5W-20, sticking with 5W-30 will not be the cause for an engine failure under warranty. No 5W-20 for me when there are better oils available. Now that they have had a problem with durability, maybe they will rethink the 5W-20 deal for 2013.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:05 AM   #1989
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CAFE could have been a consideration but since the EPA ratings didn't change for 2013 on any Wrangler model, it would tend to discount that hypothesis. Unless Chrysler issues a statement or someone leaks it out as to why, we may never know.
I hear ya, lots of opinions as to why that's for sure.

I stumbled upon this, I'm trying to digest it. The puzzling part is why didn't they back spec the 2012? The other puzzling thing is if they thought 5W20 was going to help the ticking problem, then 2012 should have been back spec'd, we were lead to believe the 2013, has the more robust head. I use the word head because no mention is ever made of the right head. You'd think if they were mirror images they'd change the design of both heads..................................


Manufacturers can earn CAFE “credits” to offset deficiencies in their CAFE performances. Specifically, when the average fuel economy of either the passenger car or light truck fleet for a particular model year exceeds the established standard, the manufacturer earns credits. The amount of credit a manufacturer earns is determined by multiplying the tenths of a mile per gallon that the manufacturer exceeded the CAFE standard in that model year by the amount of vehicles they manufactured in that model year. These credits can be applied to any three consecutive model years immediately prior to or subsequent to the model year in which the credits are earned. The credits earned and applied to the model years prior to the model year for which the credits are earned are termed “carry back” credits, while those applied to model years subsequent to the model year in which the credits are earned are known as “carry forward” credits.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:19 AM   #1990
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Yes you can. I bought mine 6 months after I got the Jeep. Make sure you negotiate the price. I was initially quoted $3500 for the lifetime warranty and ended up shopping around and getting it for $1800.

Cheers,
Would anyone happen to know how much the head costs? That would be a deciding factor if purchasing an extended warranty. Hopefully after most are out of warranty and some independent shops troubleshoot the issue we will know the exact cause of the failure. Maybe in a couple of years there will be a vendor either reworking the "bad" heads or selling replacements. Seems to be a huge market for a permanent fix.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:36 AM   #1991
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Would anyone happen to know how much the head costs? That would be a deciding factor if purchasing an extended warranty. Hopefully after most are out of warranty and some independent shops troubleshoot the issue we will know the exact cause of the failure. Maybe in a couple of years there will be a vendor either reworking the "bad" heads or selling replacements. Seems to be a huge market for a permanent fix.
A stripped head runs about $350-$400 for the part. I don't know what the book time is to complete the head and install it. I know the guides can't be serviced so if they go bad the head gets pitched into the garbage.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:45 AM   #1992
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A stripped head runs about $350-$400 for the part. I don't know what the book time is to complete the head and install it. I know the guides can't be serviced so if they go bad the head gets pitched into the garbage.
It's a nice chunk of aluminum. I'd take it to the scrap yard and recoup some money.
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Old 08-15-2012, 09:49 AM   #1993
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It's a nice chunk of aluminum. I'd take it to the scrap yard and recoup some money.

I'm sure Chrysler is doing just that!
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #1994
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So, I had the reflash with "updated software" Monday, as is the way with the ticking, code ablaze head at the dealer. It still ticked after, but the code was gone. I told the service manager, who mysteriously was needed to tell me what was done on the phone at the time of the reflash, that I'd see him soon. Guess what!!! CEL back on two days later!!! I just walked in and told him. He stated that he hoped I understood that to get this claim taken care of, especially of it needs the head, they have Chrysler mandated steps to follow. Wow! I'm dropping it off in the morning, and let's see how it goes. If I get the run around again tomorrow afternoon after its there for another day, my tone will change and his day will be memorable
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:11 AM   #1995
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@Brave: Sick Balls Chopper!!
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:15 AM   #1996
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:51 AM   #1997
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Or: He's no good to me dead
Great 80's movie reference! lol

I'll be tired after a long overnight shift of dealing with idiots so I'm sure I'll be a bit edgy. I'll refrain from ball attacks I hope, though. Haha
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:32 AM   #1998
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I hope they fix it right this time around.....seems to be the usual steps. head is up next for yah! how many miles on the odometer braveheart12jk?
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:55 PM   #1999
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So, I had the reflash with "updated software" Monday, as is the way with the ticking, code ablaze head at the dealer. It still ticked after, but the code was gone. I told the service manager, who mysteriously was needed to tell me what was done on the phone at the time of the reflash, that I'd see him soon. Guess what!!! CEL back on two days later!!! I just walked in and told him. He stated that he hoped I understood that to get this claim taken care of, especially of it needs the head, they have Chrysler mandated steps to follow. Wow! I'm dropping it off in the morning, and let's see how it goes. If I get the run around again tomorrow afternoon after its there for another day, my tone will change and his day will be memorable
You should be good to go from here. Did they tell you how long for the head to come in or do they have it in stock now? Mine was a 3 week wait but from what I've been seeing the backlog seems to be gone. Are they giving you a loaner? Good luck!
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:51 PM   #2000
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2012 JKU Sahara no ticking, yet, at 7,000 miles. 7/25/11 build date. Also have a 2011 T&C with 11,500 miles and no ticking. Both get Shell or BP fuel.

Interesting article (link below) about low octane, hard driving (?) and hot conditions as the possible culprit. Seriously?


These are Wranglers for crying out loud. They are supposedly intended for sever conditions and use. What, we have to baby them now? Can someone tell me what constitutes "hard driving."


Chrysler replacing cylinder heads on select Pentastar V6 powered models
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:18 PM   #2001
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I have 14k on her now. They said they would see how fast it's available if needed...the head that is. They also said, when they do the head, they notify Chrysler, and tell them I will need a vehicle. I am not leaving without one, because at the moment, it's my only transportation.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:28 PM   #2002
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Good luck with everything Braveheart, Take a look around under the hood also, I am curious to know what there doing. as in are they puting all the foam insulation back, removing something.

I had a long drive today, got me thinking, See if I have this correct,
Both cylinder heads are relatively the same, If so why is it we are only seeing common failures on #2 and not on #5 which would be the #2 on the right head,

Chrysler says bad fuel, Ok, correct me if I am wrong, doesnt all 6 cylinders require fuel ??

So what I want to know, whats the difference between the left and right head ? besides location,
Maybe it is location, I have alot of foam on my left valve cover, none on my right valve cover,

Then theres the loop D loop, maybe or maybe not a contributing factor. I am just trying to get a grasp on all this. Anyone else have an opinon...?
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:40 PM   #2003
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I was at the service desk due to the tick , followed by sluggish engine, followed by engine light. The dealer stated bring it in next week to diagnose. p0306 code. It's the head. Then they said if it was the head they get in one set every 7 days and there were 5 ahead of me. The dealer does not provide a rental. They did give the Chrysler service number. It has 11900 miles and a 9/101build date
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:40 PM   #2004
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Originally Posted by rdseefeld View Post
...
Interesting article (link below) about low octane, hard driving (?) and hot conditions as the possible culprit. Seriously?
...

Chrysler replacing cylinder heads on select Pentastar V6 powered models
From the 14 August article:

"Chrysler first recognized this problem around six weeks ago,..."

Hello? Chrysler, if that's the truth, you have a real problem! This thread was started 6 months ago, and head replacements for this problem were reported here before that.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:42 PM   #2005
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I am trading the vehicle in tomorrow. After I take off my wheels, my rails, and my hitch
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:42 PM   #2006
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I think it's a design/mfg issue, regardless of what Chrysler says. Engines are failing under normal use. That means something isn't working as intended. Therefore, something wasn't properly designed or properly manufactured. End of story. Blaming owners isn't a good strategy. I've seen posts by owners with <500 miles on the odo who have had heads replaced. I doubt they 'broke' their JK by abusing it!
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:46 PM   #2007
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http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...NEWS/120819959
Chrysler BS. This thread has been around longer than they claim. No mention of the Mexican made heads they are replacing or the fall build dates.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #2008
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Bill, I got this from another article...

To fix the problem, which Chrysler executives declined to describe fully, the company designed a "more robust" head, which it started manufacturing about six weeks ago.

Dealers repairing Chrysler V6 engines - Autoweek

It was in this artice, This is the one I have seen floating around as of lately.

rdseefeld,
This is where I am at, if it is a design flaw, why is it only on the left head ?? If both heads are relatively the same, should we see failures on both heads, ???? I am not sold on a design flaw, but there is some difference between the left and right head, maybe not structually, but there is something else in the equasion...
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #2009
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5W-20 is a compromise oil and likely wouldn't exist except for getting an (almost unmeasureable) increase in fuel economy in response to CAFE.

5W-30 is presently specified for the Pentastar. If they go for 5W-20, sticking with 5W-30 will not be the cause for an engine failure under warranty. No 5W-20 for me when there are better oils available. Now that they have had a problem with durability, maybe they will rethink the 5W-20 deal for 2013.
It is 5W-20 for 2013.
Up to everyone's guess why didn't they change that.
The is not change to the MPG rating so hardly would I guess it's for showing better rating.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:03 PM   #2010
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Muddr1,

I don't believe the heads are the same. I've read that they are in fact slightly different in design. Could be the exhaust loop building excessive heat on the left bank (Chrysler says that's not the case.) Anyway, I guess it will eventually all come out in the wash..... I just hope I don't have to deal with it. Supposedly only 0.5% of all Pentastars are involved.

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