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Old 08-17-2012, 03:47 PM   #2071
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Originally Posted by DuneYeti View Post
If this is true, it is a hell of a lot different than bad gas and bad driving conditions that Chrysler claims in their response. And in actuality a hell of a lot better than a bad design!

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Old 08-17-2012, 05:27 PM   #2072
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Another example of corporate America protecting the balance sheet by obscuring the facts. Let them not forget that there are, in fact, COSTS associated with this tactic. I switched from Toyota to Chrysler big time by buying not one but two new vehicles from them. A 2011 T&C for her and 2012 JKU Sahara for me, both with the 3.6L Pentastar. How they handle this issue will determine my brand loyalty. I don't have the ticking issue with either vehicle so I have no skin in the game, yet. But, you can bet i'm watching how they treat those with head problems as an indicator of how they treat all customers. We ALL have bottom lines to watch and manage.
What he said!!

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Old 08-17-2012, 07:25 PM   #2073
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Yikes, so ridiculous. I'm so sorry you're going through this crap. Honestly, call Chrysler Customer Care. Tell them you want to open a case and why. They will assign you a Case Manager; that person can (and should) set up a rental/loaner for you. They will deal with the stealership directly. The number I used was the IAMJEEP #: 1-877-426-5337. The case mgmt number is 800-763-8422.
Thank u! Next time I'm heading there, which should be soon when the CEL comes on again, this will be the first thing I do!
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:44 PM   #2074
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Originally Posted by DuneYeti
The link suggest its a machining problem.

Why would Chrysler redesign the new head to be "more robust" if the problem was a machining problem? Why would Chrysler blame poor fuel quality and hard driving if they know it's a machining problem? Why would Chrysler not proactively contact owner if they know there was machining problem and recall the suspected VIN number vehicles? More smoke and mirrors. This is starting to look like the Roswell UFO disinformation debacle. Chrysler, the truth will set you free.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:14 PM   #2075
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It certianly makes sence though, It has to do with something more than bad gas and driving habits. The failure is almost always on #2 cylinder. It will certainly come out though....
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:28 PM   #2076
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"Why would Chrysler redesign the new head to be "more robust" if the problem was a machining problem?"
Why would Chrysler redesign the head and only replace the ones that have failure? The need for a beefed up head implies the defect is in all produced prior.
A machining error makes perfect sence since they only have to replace a couple thousand, avoid a recall, and blame the problem on bad gas and driving habbits, avioding any question of quality assurance problems. If they can fix all the bad heads out there and cover up the real problem it's all good at the end of the day.
3.6 Pentastar has been around a while and gone lots of miles why are there only problems with a couple months worth of production?
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:34 PM   #2077
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They might be able to get away with a krappy exuse in the minivan forum, but we know better, we drive jeeps. There not going to pull one over on us.

And for what its worth yeti, I agree with you. Also why would one head be fine and the other have issues.

But in reality, until we hear from someone at chrysler, it is still all speculation. Unfortunaltly..
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:44 PM   #2078
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Originally Posted by DuneYeti
"Why would Chrysler redesign the new head to be "more robust" if the problem was a machining problem?"
Why would Chrysler redesign the head and only replace the ones that have failure? The need for a beefed up head implies the defect is in all produced prior.
A machining error makes perfect sence since they only have to replace a couple thousand, avoid a recall, and blame the problem on bad gas and driving habbits, avioding any question of quality assurance problems. If they can fix all the bad heads out there and cover up the real problem it's all good at the end of the day.
3.6 Pentastar has been around a while and gone lots of miles why are there only problems with a couple months worth of production?
That's what I mean by smoke and mirrors versus telling the truth. I can't deduce which is which and I think Chrysler knows and owes it to customers to give us the facts. Then we can relax and enjoy our JKs. Not knowing if your JK is next really detracts from the joy of ownership. It's like waiting for the hammer to drop. I'm nervous about taking long trips and wondering if my head will fail miles from home. I'm planning a trip cross country in my 2011 T&C and now wonder if it too has a potential problem like my 2012 JKU Sahara.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:04 PM   #2079
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A few weeks ago, two days before a long wheel trip (4500 miles) my '12 threw a P0306 misfire code. Motor sounded fine, couldn't detect anything wrong. Cleared the code, stopped by the dealer the day of my trip and picked up a plug and coil ($36). That was at 20,900 miles.

Got the code again on my trip (again ran fine) and replaced the plug, got it again and replaced the coil. Haven't seen the code again and I'm at just over 26,200 miles.

Frankly, the ECM programming and monitoring might be a bit sensitive as I've not felt a miss and that motor runs great.

So a CEL or misfire isn't always a bad head, and it's nothing you should lose a lot of sleep over. Certainly an inconvenience if you need servicing, but your Jeep has a 5yr/100K warranty and they'll fix it.
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #2080
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Don't you think if it were a redisign (more robust head) the people who didn't get the new head would be feeling a little left out? I would? why just give it to the ones who fail before the warrenty runs out. I don't think Chrysler will be coming clean on this one cause it's only a couple thousand heads. If it were bad gas a driving habbits you think they would put the evidance out there, #2 cylinder? What is that the only cylinder to get the bad gas? All the other cylinders and the remaining 992,000 engines are getting good gas?
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #2081
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Got my JK back from the dealer on Wednesday. Just when they promised it. I had a great experience, as much as possible for having to take my jeep in. Just like they said when I dropped it off. Cylinder 6 missfired, bad head and they replaced it. Gave me a rental and now I got my baby back! First thing I did next day was give it a nice bath and wax.

Been a few days and no engine light. Going on a 2000 mile trip this week. I am pretty confident no problems. We'll see.

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Old 08-17-2012, 09:24 PM   #2082
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Originally Posted by Muddr1 View Post
They might be able to get away with a krappy exuse in the minivan forum, but we know better, we drive jeeps. There not going to pull one over on us.

And for what its worth yeti, I agree with you. Also why would one head be fine and the other have issues.

But in reality, until we hear from someone at chrysler, it is still all speculation. Unfortunaltly..
My God man where did you learn not to spell?
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:37 PM   #2083
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Originally Posted by DuneYeti
Don't you think if it were a redisign (more robust head) the people who didn't get the new head would be feeling a little left out? I would? why just give it to the ones who fail before the warrenty runs out. I don't think Chrysler will be coming clean on this one cause it's only a couple thousand heads. If it were bad gas a driving habbits you think they would put the evidance out there, #2 cylinder? What is that the only cylinder to get the bad gas? All the other cylinders and the remaining 992,000 engines are getting good gas?
That's my point. The industry news reports and Chrysler's current stance are not compatible. it's either (1) poor fuel and bad drivers (2) poor design or (3) a manufacturing error during machining. I'm thinking it's #3. #'s 1 and 2 don't fit with the evidence. # 1 is a bad joke. #2 would mean ALL engines would have a problem. What I don't understand is why you need a more robust head if it's not a designed problem?
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Old 08-17-2012, 09:39 PM   #2084
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I keep looking for the spell check button, but cannot seem to find it.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:01 PM   #2085
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It's the little check mark with the ABC in the upper right hand corner of the dialague box. But don't sweat it, any one sitting around in the dark in there underware drinking a beer and listening to I tunes could care less how you spel.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:13 PM   #2086
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Ya, it was only 2 words misspelled, what eva....
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:57 PM   #2087
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Ya, it was only 2 words misspelled, what eva....
for the record i see four...lol

who really cares? calling people out for spelling is pretty lame imo.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:15 PM   #2088
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:39 PM   #2089
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I brought in my lemon law book. Dealer covered the cost of the 2012 jeep and I bought a July built 2013 on a great deal. So..time will tell. I did record the engine sound on the new one as a baseline. Not a peep.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:59 PM   #2090
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They might be able to get away with a krappy exuse in the minivan forum, but we know better, we drive jeeps. There not going to pull one over on us.
Eh. Yeah, maybe, but who are we to a big corporation? What do they care about one little forum as long as 99% of the people walking onto the car lots have never heard of the problem? That changes if they issue an official recall and it gets picked up by the major media organizations.

I don't like it any more than anybody else, I also wish they'd just come clean with the true cause of the problem, but I don't expect that's going to happen any time soon. Seems they've chosen their path on this one, and overall, I don't think it's going to hurt their bottom line.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:04 AM   #2091
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The back order issue may be coming to an end. I took my jeep in on Wednesday afternoon and dropped it it off for an engine diagnosis based upon the ticking sound. Today I called to check and see if a diagnosis had been made, and I learned that it needed a new head. My service advisor told me "my tech is almost done installing it right now." He told me that they had a head in stock.

Both the dealer and Chrysler have been great in dealing with this. They were able to get it done in three days. Maybe they just needed to get production up and running to catch up with the demand.
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:29 AM   #2092
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Eh. Yeah, maybe, but who are we to a big corporation? What do they care about one little forum as long as 99% of the people walking onto the car lots have never heard of the problem? That changes if they issue an official recall and it gets picked up by the major media organizations.

I don't like it any more than anybody else, I also wish they'd just come clean with the true cause of the problem, but I don't expect that's going to happen any time soon. Seems they've chosen their path on this one, and overall, I don't think it's going to hurt their bottom line.
Thats what myself and alot of other people have been saying all along, all we want is to be told the truth, dont try and tell us that its bad gas and the way we drive. That woulndt show up on a #2 cylinder all the time.
But I also believe time will tell, it will come to light soon enough.
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Old 08-18-2012, 09:46 AM   #2093
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This is actually the earliest version of Chrysler sourced horse poopie. It is obviously not the truth or we would not have seen the effort and expense of a redesigned head.

Look Chrysler will never come out and specify the actual problem because it would put in motion a chain of events they can't afford. What would a one-time recall of every Pentastar built until a few months ago cost them? I don't want to see Chrysler out of business, so I'm fine with the way this *has to be* handled - one repair at a time, as they fail.

Some of what dealers are doing right now seems to be buying time - reflashing computers more than once? - as they get the new heads in the pipeline.

The number of owners having this problem could get higher, a lot higher. Chrysler is doing everything it can to get ready for that in case it does happen. If it does happen the truth about the source of the problem will eventually surface as the problem gets non-partisan independent analysis.

We don't know the exact problem, all we can be reasonably sure of at this point in the saga is that Chrysler does know, and has fixed it in the re-engineered head. IMO logic points to a heat problem, a design flaw that effects every Pentastar built until a few months ago.

I love my Jeep. We'll get through this.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:00 AM   #2094
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This is actually the earliest version of Chrysler sourced horse poopie. It is obviously not the truth or we would not have seen the effort and expense of a redesigned head.

Look Chrysler will never come out and specify the actual problem because it would put in motion a chain of events they can't afford. What would a one-time recall of every Pentastar built until a few months ago cost them? I don't want to see Chrysler out of business, so I'm fine with the way this *has to be* handled - one repair at a time, as they fail.

Some of what dealers are doing right now seems to be buying time - reflashing computers more than once? - as they get the new heads in the pipeline.

The number of owners having this problem could get higher, a lot higher. Chrysler is doing everything it can to get ready for that in case it does happen. If it does happen the truth about the source of the problem will eventually surface as the problem gets non-partisan independent analysis.

We don't know the exact problem, all we can be reasonably sure of at this point in the saga is that Chrysler does know, and has fixed it in the re-engineered head. IMO logic points to a heat problem, a design flaw that effects every Pentastar built until a few months ago.

I love my Jeep. We'll get through this.
Good points. My only question is have they really fixed it in the redesigned heads? IMO it's too soon to tell, we'll know soon enough though. We'll also know in short order if the problem carried over into the 2013's as soon as there are more on the road and some miles get logged. I'm cautiously optimistic, but will continue to wait and see.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:49 AM   #2095
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Picked mine up yesterday with one of the newly redesigned heads installed. The dealership did a nice clean job. Thus far I can feel a noticeable increase in power and in the 70 miles I put on it yesterday the fuel mileage has been around 20 mpg, up from the 16 -17 mpg it was getting prior to the repair. Hopefully this will be the final fix.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:05 AM   #2096
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Picked mine up yesterday with one of the newly redesigned heads installed. The dealership did a nice clean job. Thus far I can feel a noticeable increase in power and in the 70 miles I put on it yesterday the fuel mileage has been around 20 mpg, up from the 16 -17 mpg it was getting prior to the repair. Hopefully this will be the final fix.
I wonder if fuel economy is a good indicator of the head problem prior to the ticking being evident? Maybe that's why some are complaining about about poor MPG in several threads. I'm still getting ~20 MPG and all is still quiet at 7,0000 mi.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:22 AM   #2097
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Was thinking the same thing, i am always about 16.5 around town and highest at 17.8 on the freeway. I only have ace rails and some lights, not sure driving style would account for 3mpg improvement. I feel like i am babying it as keeping up with traffic is quite easy.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:35 AM   #2098
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Are you people really bying this "New design head" line? If it were a new design head they would have to replace every drivers side head on every pentaster built with the old head or they would have a class action lawsuit from hell on there hands. The only thing we all agree on for sure is Chrysler is Lying. I woulden't mind if they went under maybe some company with some class would buy Jeep. My openion.
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Old 08-18-2012, 11:48 AM   #2099
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Are you people really bying this "New design head" line? If it were a new design head they would have to replace every drivers side head on every pentaster built with the old head or they would have a class action lawsuit from hell on there hands. The only thing we all agree on for sure is Chrysler is Lying. I woulden't mind if they went under maybe some company with some class would buy Jeep. My openion.
Very true, I just want to get a hold of one the take offs. I've heard the problem is the valve seat working its way lose, which isn't good. What I don't understand, is why it's only the left head. I guess we will find out soon. You would think there would be some spy photos out.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:04 PM   #2100
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Are you people really bying this "New design head" line? If it were a new design head they would have to replace every drivers side head on every pentaster built with the old head or they would have a class action lawsuit from hell on there hands. The only thing we all agree on for sure is Chrysler is Lying. I woulden't mind if they went under maybe some company with some class would buy Jeep. My openion.
Yes, I am buying the story that there is a new head design. Manufacturers continuously improve designs. Does that make all instances of prior designs defective? No, it just means the new design is less likely to exhibit a failure under certain conditions than the prior design. We haven't seen any instances of Chrysler not standing behind the product when it fails. If Chrysler was willing to buy back Dozer JKs simply because the tint in a batch of paint was off (or give owners 3K in cash if they didn't want a buy back), I'm sure they will do the right thing for affected customers. If I didn't think they would, I wouldn't have ordered one.

Every manufacturer has had these types of situations. These are complex machines made by humans. Humans make mistakes. We've all made mistakes in our jobs. What makes the difference is how the companies take care of their customers when mistakes happen.

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