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Old 10-12-2012, 06:22 PM   #2821
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Originally Posted by justinlassen1 View Post
Have 2013 cel came on i smell fumes runnin rich only 1400 miles what the hell
cycle the key on and off 3 times and give us the CEL code.

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Old 10-12-2012, 07:07 PM   #2822
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Uh...not good.... Hopefully it is not head related. I'm sitting at the dealership right now.

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Old 10-12-2012, 08:35 PM   #2823
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So I ordered my build sheet for my 2012 Sahara unlimited and it shows a build date of 30 May 12. So does this mean I should have the dealer check the heads or just listen for a tick.
Just drive it like you stole it. Lol
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:24 PM   #2824
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Got in the jeep today and toggled key 3 times no codes started jeep lights out and dnt smell fumes i bet its an o2 sensor beins it warmed up today we will see ill plug into my buddies laptop and see what it says
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Old 10-14-2012, 04:48 AM   #2825
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I've had my Jeep for a year now and over the past couple thousand miles my tick got louder to the point that it was noticeable from the Driver's seat at 70mph. So far, no CEL, but my mileage dropped a bit. I took it in Thursday for my 10,000-mile service and asked them to check the head. Sure enough, it needs a new one. Fortunately the dealer had a head in stock and it should be done Wed. I am looking forward to having a refined and quiet Jeep again.

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Old 10-14-2012, 09:37 AM   #2826
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This is my first Jeep and actually only my second brand new vehicle ever. First was a 1997 Ford Ranger 4x4 that I still run during the winters. I have however owned a dozen motorcycles ranging from Harley to Ducati...I understand service woes. My 13 isn't even broken in yet so IDK how this will shake out, but I do know all the information is this thread has and will be helpful if and when this eventually shows up. I like to step up to the service dept armed and educated so there is minimal separation anxiety....
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:20 AM   #2827
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Have 2013 cel came on i smell fumes runnin rich only 1400 miles what the hell
That sucks! Keep us updated on the situation.
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Old 10-14-2012, 01:51 PM   #2828
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My jeep runs great
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:48 PM   #2829
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A quote from Mopar Norm over at the Allpar fourm:


"The likelihood of having a bad head, at the most pessimistic, is one in 60."

Thats a 1.6% chance or less according to those numbers
Seems a lot higher based on postings here.
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Old 10-14-2012, 07:51 PM   #2830
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this threads still going
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:00 PM   #2831
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A quote from Mopar Norm over at the Allpar fourm:


"The likelihood of having a bad head, at the most pessimistic, is one in 60."

Thats a 1.6% chance or less according to those numbers
Seems a lot higher based on postings here.
That is 300% greater than what was claimed by Jeep in August 2012.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:04 PM   #2832
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A quote from Mopar Norm over at the Allpar fourm:


"The likelihood of having a bad head, at the most pessimistic, is one in 60."

Thats a 1.6% chance or less according to those numbers
Seems a lot higher based on postings here.
1 in 60, I bet it's more like 1 in 40. Either way those odds are a little too high for me. I'll continue to sit on the sideline and wait.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:41 PM   #2833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capndan
A quote from Mopar Norm over at the Allpar fourm:

"The likelihood of having a bad head, at the most pessimistic, is one in 60."

Thats a 1.6% chance or less according to those numbers
Seems a lot higher based on postings here.
Internet data is skewed. You will see more complaints because people start researching a problem and voice issues. Most people aren't going to talk about how they have no ticking, assuming those guys even know there is a problem that exists for others.
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Old 10-14-2012, 08:55 PM   #2834
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Internet data is skewed. You will see more complaints because people start researching a problem and voice issues. Most people aren't going to talk about how they have no ticking, assuming those guys even know there is a problem that exists for others.
Very true, but the number of 500/week failing nation wide has popped up more than once. That is frightening along with the insiders keeping it quiet, and two head revisions.
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Old 10-14-2012, 11:48 PM   #2835
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500 x 52 = 26,000.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:09 AM   #2836
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500 x 52 = 26,000.
26,000 x $1,000 to $1,500 = $26,000,000 to $39,000,000

Assuming the bill for parts in a recent post is retail and there is 8 hours of labor. Factor 50% for cost and you are still looking at 10 to 20 million dollars.

That's a lot of money to lose, even for Chrysler.

Devalued engineering at its finest.

I turned down my recent deal because the July built 2012 Crush was ticking on the lot.

Since this is only a toy for me. I can wait until they resolve the issue.

BTW those losses have to be absorbed someplace else on the vehicles.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:45 AM   #2837
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26,000 x $1,000 to $1,500 = $26,000,000 to $39,000,000

Assuming the bill for parts in a recent post is retail and there is 8 hours of labor. Factor 50% for cost and you are still looking at 10 to 20 million dollars.

That's a lot of money to lose, even for Chrysler.

Devalued engineering at its finest.

I turned down my recent deal because the July built 2012 Crush was ticking on the lot.

Since this is only a toy for me. I can wait until they resolve the issue.

BTW those losses have to be absorbed someplace else on the vehicles.
It's a toy for me too. It's something I want, not need, so I can wait too. I haven't bailed on them yet, and think they will ultimately get it fixed.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:06 AM   #2838
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1 in 60, I bet it's more like 1 in 40. Either way those odds are a little too high for me. I'll continue to sit on the sideline and wait.
I'll bet it's more like 1 in 1 over a period of 7 years or 100,000 miles.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:10 AM   #2839
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I'll bet it's more like 1 in 1 over a period of 7 years or 100,000 miles.
It could very well be, I for one sure won't argue with ya. I sure hope not though.
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Old 10-15-2012, 06:18 AM   #2840
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Well....I put serious skin in the game....

So here is betting on the AC head and an October/November 2012 build.

Or....it is class action time.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:28 AM   #2841
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Well....I put serious skin in the game....

So here is betting on the AC head and an October/November 2012 build.

Or....it is class action time.
CONGRATS, panthermark! Hope the AC head is the final cure.

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Old 10-15-2012, 08:55 AM   #2842
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Well....I put serious skin in the game....

So here is betting on the AC head and an October/November 2012 build.

Or....it is class action time.
How would this be a class action? ... Chrysler is fixing the problem under warranty.

Plus, we have proof you knew about the risk and proceeded anyway.

.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:21 AM   #2843
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How would this be a class action? ... Chrysler is fixing the problem under warranty.

Plus, we have proof you knew about the risk and proceeded anyway.

.
I gotta agree. hell I think it sucks that there is a problem but it is a risk I took and as far as I can tell Chrysler is fixing all the problem childs under warranty.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:29 AM   #2844
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How to pay for cost of head replacement? Price increase!!
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:01 AM   #2845
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How would this be a class action? ... Chrysler is fixing the problem under warranty.

Plus, we have proof you knew about the risk and proceeded anyway.

.
Key word "warranty". What people are not considering yet is the chances of failure BEYOND the warranty period. Things like this have a nasty habit of occurring somewhere down the road and for those people that drive 20k a miles a year then it might not show up until they are outside that period and then they are screwed. Or what about those folks who only drive 1500 miles a year in theirs because it's their backcountry toy? 5 years of that and you're still less than 10k miles and then bam you are socked with a costly repair bill due to a head design flaw that popped up outside the warranty period. Things to consider folks. Things to consider...
Chrysler is just going to fix the ones that break on their watch and then hope most of them can limp along for the next 4+ years on their own and then go tango uniform outside the warranty period. I don't really call that stepping up but whatever.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #2846
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How would this be a class action? ... Chrysler is fixing the problem under warranty.

Plus, we have proof you knew about the risk and proceeded anyway.

.
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I gotta agree. hell I think it sucks that there is a problem but it is a risk I took and as far as I can tell Chrysler is fixing all the problem childs under warranty.
I'm buying a 2013 with an Oct/Nov build, not a 2012 or June built 2013. The head problem "should" be fixed being that they are on the 3rd version of the head. "If" the problem is in the engine design itself (while Chrysler blames bad gas and driving conditions ), they are looking at a problem.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:09 AM   #2847
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Key word "warranty". What people are not considering yet is the chances of failure BEYOND the warranty period. Things like this have a nasty habit of occurring somewhere down the road and for those people that drive 20k a miles a year then it might not show up until they are outside that period and then they are screwed. Or what about those folks who only drive 1500 miles a year in theirs because it's their backcountry toy? 5 years of that and you're still less than 10k miles and then bam you are socked with a costly repair bill due to a head design flaw that popped up outside the warranty period. Things to consider folks. Things to consider...
Chrysler is just going to fix the ones that break on their watch and then hope most of them can limp along for the next 4+ years on their own and then go tango uniform outside the warranty period. I don't really call that stepping up but whatever.
Exactly...
I've put less than 17,000 miles on my Libety in the 4 and a half years I've owned it.

If I drive this new Wrangler a lot....I'll be lucky to hit 25,000 miles in 5 years...so I guess I just have to hope I get a problem before 5 years (which seems backwards)...or that the problem is fixed.
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:43 AM   #2848
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I'll bet it's more like 1 in 1 over a period of 7 years or 100,000 miles.
In essence this is probably correct. Chrysler stated that the failure occurs as a result of some mysterious combination of bad fuel, drive cycle and other factors.

It sounds like a better way to describe the failure rate would be, "while 100% of the AA design heads contain the flaw, only a small percentage of drivers have operated their vehicle under conditions which cause the failure mode associated with the flaw to occur." Over seven years, a greater percentage of drivers will have hit the magic combination of factors that cause the failure.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:03 AM   #2849
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26,000 x $1,000 to $1,500 = $26,000,000 to $39,000,000

That's a lot of money to lose, even for Chrysler.

BTW those losses have to be absorbed someplace else on the vehicles.
Yeah that's definitely a lot of greenbacks although anticipated warranty claims are already built into the price. There are probably no more than a dozen execs at Chrysler that know the exact amount of the purchase price that is set aside for warranty work, but I would venture at least $2500+ of every vehicle is for warranty claims. There are other chunks for pensions, healthcare, materials, labor and other overhead.

Even though they build this all into the price, it still shouldn't hurt the bottom line as bad as we think. The actuarial tables surely didn't figure on the head issue, but it's all regressive analysis so part of the head repairs are already factored (the Pent is in all lines). The important thing is for Chrysler to secure public confidence and ensure the replacement heads are the true fix. The "why" isn't as important except to us enthusiasts -- they need to come clean to the enthusiasts because it's usually enthusiasts, us, that steer other people on what to buy or not buy. Just my nickel's worth.
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Old 10-15-2012, 11:09 AM   #2850
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I'm buying a 2013 with an Oct/Nov build, not a 2012 or June built 2013. The head problem "should" be fixed being that they are on the 3rd version of the head. "If" the problem is in the engine design itself (while Chrysler blames bad gas and driving conditions ), they are looking at a problem.
I'm in the same boat as you, panthermark. I'm absolutely ready to buy and waited for the same reason but now can't find exactly what I want -- and I don't like to order. Ordering is, um, couple of long stories, LOL, so no ordering for me. My confidence, though, is rising that the head fix (AC) is good.

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