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Old 10-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #2851
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up to 9200 miles...no tick...no cel...dec2011 build date. don't think this is gonna be 100% of vehicles. has anyone counted how many members on here have had a head replacement? and how many members have 3.6L pentastars? still not a big deal to me since they are replacing the head. if this same issue occurs outside of warranty I am confident I will have it fixed free of charge. too much publicity on the issue, revisions on the head, public statements from chrystler, etc. for them to shaft u on this down the road imo.

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #2852
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Another thing most people here aren't considering either is what kind of damage over time will be done to the rest of the powertrain from the bad head? Will the cylinders, crank, rings, etc go bad much earlier than they should from this? Lots of variables here to consider. Only a lifetime powertrain warranty for the vehicles made within the timeframe of the bad head design could be truly what I call stepping up by Chrysler. If they are confident that less than 1% of the vehicles should succumb to this problem then the lifetime warranty shouldn't cost them that much eh?

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:16 AM   #2853
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I am one who will hit the year before mileage limitation of the powertrain warranty. I purchased 5/1/2012. I just had my 1st free oil change at 2,000 (I was approaching the 6 month mark) miles this weekend. Mine is running fine with no warranty issues at all.

I did quiz the service writer about the pentastar head issue and he says they haven't had one yet. He had heard of it. They are a smaller dealer.

Another on this thread did have one and had it serviced at a dealer in Pensacola, fl. I think if mine goes, I will take it to the more experienced service department.

So if mine goes at 7 years & 3 months with only 30,000 miles on it, will Chrysler back it?

If this was just a bad run of heads they should be able to trace down the vehicles they were put in and replace them or provide an extended warranty.

Until then I will just continue to enjoy it.
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Old 10-15-2012, 12:10 PM   #2854
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Have you guys looked at the block where the heads mate up? ..

When I first looked at this design, aside from the integrated exhaust-in-head concept, I thought WOW. They hogged out all the webbing around the cylinders to save on material and weight.

There was special pride in the savings vs. GM's V6...

I'm saying this is the work of Value Engineering... GM has one of these groups as well.


Quotes from Allpar...

.
Quotes from Allpar:

"The cylinder heads are made of aluminum, with unique left and right castings and integrated exhaust manifolds. The valves have pressed-in powdered metal guides, which are not serviceable. The valvetrain uses roller rocker arms with hydralic lifters. Spark plug tubes are pressed into the heads and sealed in place; the tubes have thin walls, and mechanics were advised to be careful when working with them"

That is probably what the engineers fixed. The left head was always the problem, they re-engineered the casting for the left side.

I'm wondering what the hell are "powdered metal" valve guides which are "not serviceable"? Does that mean if you need a valve job (which all motors need at some time) you have to replace the entire head?
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by m998dna

How would this be a class action? ... Chrysler is fixing the problem under warranty.

Plus, we have proof you knew about the risk and proceeded anyway.

.
It's amazing how people Judy want to sue for anything these days.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:06 PM   #2856
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All class action suites do is make lawyers a shit load of money, get the problem fixed under warranty and move on with your life.
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Old 10-15-2012, 01:20 PM   #2857
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Originally Posted by j0nx View Post
Another thing most people here aren't considering either is what kind of damage over time will be done to the rest of the powertrain from the bad head? Will the cylinders, crank, rings, etc go bad much earlier than they should from this? Lots of variables here to consider. Only a lifetime powertrain warranty for the vehicles made within the timeframe of the bad head design could be truly what I call stepping up by Chrysler. If they are confident that less than 1% of the vehicles should succumb to this problem then the lifetime warranty shouldn't cost them that much eh?
The 3.6 is an "interference" engine. Unless a valve dropped, the head should have no effect on the longevity of the crank, pistons, rings, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moneyfaced View Post
Quotes from Allpar:

"The cylinder heads are made of aluminum, with unique left and right castings and integrated exhaust manifolds. The valves have pressed-in powdered metal guides, which are not serviceable. The valvetrain uses roller rocker arms with hydralic lifters. Spark plug tubes are pressed into the heads and sealed in place; the tubes have thin walls, and mechanics were advised to be careful when working with them"

That is probably what the engineers fixed. The left head was always the problem, they re-engineered the casting for the left side.

I'm wondering what the hell are "powdered metal" valve guides which are "not serviceable"? Does that mean if you need a valve job (which all motors need at some time) you have to replace the entire head?
Powder metallurgy is the process of blending fine powdered materials, pressing them into a desired shape or form (compacting), and then heating the compressed material in a controlled atmosphere to bond the material (sintering).
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:08 PM   #2858
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Side story:

I'm not a bit TV watcher (just got cable a few months ago....for the wife), but I'm about to fork over a bunch of cash on a new TV.

I purchased a very nice 55 inch, Sony RP-LCD basically 8 years ago to the day. At the time, I went LCD over Plasma for longevity. It was $3298 + tax from ABT electronics. As I said before, I'm not a big TV watcher....but I do enjoy sports in HD. I watch so little TV that It was over 7 years before I had to replace the factory bulb (December of 2011....$110) which tend to burn out after 5 years or so.

Over the past month, this TV has formed a blue-ish haze in the bottom left hand corner that is starting to spread accross the screen.

Now, this TV is long out of warranty...which is fine. But, a quick bit of Google research led to the "back story". There was an optical block issue with these particular TV's that were made between 2003 and 2004 (I purschased in October of 2004). There were so many issues that a class action lawsuit was formed. Sony ended up extending the warrenty and offering some type of replacement program up until October of 2010. They had continuned a reduced amount until October of 2011. Of course for me, in October of 2012...I'm SOL (yes, I've contacted Sony).

Now, my issue isn't that my TV is dying. These things happen. My issue is that my TV is dying from a known factory issue...and because I didn't watch my TV "enough", this known issue didn't show up until later....and I'm now out in the cold. Sony caught flack for not notifying people owners about this issue....but they were able to blow that off....I guess they did the math.

The same fear applies to this Wrangler....which is almost 12 times as expensive as that TV.

I don't drive a lot of miles...so the fear of a head issue popping up after 5 years and only 25,000 miles seems like a pretty damn valid concern.

I don't want a new TV from Sony....I just want their known faulty part replaced so the wife does not complain.

I dont want some class action suit to be filed against Jeep, I just want to know that the part is fixed, and if something does happen down the line (beyond the warranty), they are going to cover it instead of doing the match and running out the clock.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:55 PM   #2859
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Gee panthermark why not be like the rest of us and have faith that Chrysler in all there loving generosity will do the right thing? Hahaha OK now that I’m done rolling on the floor laughing let me say, I am in the same boat and expect Chrysler to do what is in the best interest of Chrysler and fork the rest of us in the process. Guess we better count on trading in just before the warranty is up otherwise roll the dice and hope the tick doesn’t visit us in the middle of the night.
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:03 PM   #2860
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A valid concern.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #2861
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The 3.6 is an "interference" engine. Unless a valve dropped, the head should have no effect on the longevity of the crank, pistons, rings, etc.



Powder metallurgy is the process of blending fine powdered materials, pressing them into a desired shape or form (compacting), and then heating the compressed material in a controlled atmosphere to bond the material (sintering).

Yah! When I saw that I flipped. Powdered metal parts are known to be puke and used only as a way to save money. Not serviceable means if 1 guide goes south, you have to replace the head which seems to be what's happening.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:12 PM   #2862
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I don't know much about this stuff....but "powder metallurgy" sounds a lot like the metal equivalent of......."particle board".
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:20 PM   #2863
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They've been using powdered metal components in engines for at least two decades now.....

Among the first was the Ford 4.6 which were used in '92 Crown Vics initially. It's well known that they last 200-300K miles with no issue in taxis and such when properly maintained.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:44 PM   #2864
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Yah! When I saw that I flipped. Powdered metal parts are known to be puke and used only as a way to save money. Not serviceable means if 1 guide goes south, you have to replace the head which seems to be what's happening.
Yep the valve guides can't be serviced. The technology they are using has been around, but in all honesty I'd rather have a head that can be serviced if a guide goes bad. That integrated exhaust manifold might have something to do with the problem head. I think its a combination of a poorly designed heads, and heat.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:48 PM   #2865
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Is it valve guides that are the core issue?

Haven't really seen the definitive reason for the tick/failures.
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Old 10-15-2012, 07:29 PM   #2866
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We don't know officially however there have been many references to damaged valve guides from members.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #2867
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We don't know officially however there have been many references to damaged valve guides from members.
X2. Some folks have posted copies of their repair orders which noted that the valve guides were found to be "oblonged" on the cylinders with lost compression. Makes sense to me... Worn valve guide causing the valve to be out of alignment will cause it to tick and not seal properly, hence the loss of compression and misfire condition.
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Old 10-16-2012, 09:35 PM   #2868
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I don't know much about this stuff....but "powder metallurgy" sounds a lot like the metal equivalent of......."particle board".
Now that made me laugh....

Aside from the funnays, I completely understand about the long term implications. I've owned a Jeep for 21 years and it came with known design flaws. I'm too tired and worn out to launch a class action suit... most of these are in the bone yard now. Mine has 180K miles...

Remember the days when you could only get 80K out of a vehicle? I remember my dad spending his weekends fixing cars.. I helped by holding the flashlight. Most of those old cars are now worth 20x the original value. That will never happen with mainstream modern vehicles - primarily due to obsolescence of the chips that make them run.

I think we're in the era of the disposible vehicle... run 'em until they almost stop and trade. Spend extra money on a warranty that will take you beyond the miles you expect to drive over the next ten years and ditch the vehicle.

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Old 10-18-2012, 11:20 AM   #2869
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so, service manager checked and the part is for noise isolation! tick suppressor! they ordered to part for me, so i'm going in to get it put back on.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:27 AM   #2870
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so, service manager checked and the part is for noise isolation! tick suppressor! they ordered to part for me, so i'm going in to get it put back on.
That's amusing since there is no noise suppression foam on the other valve cover.
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:29 AM   #2871
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That's amusing since there is no noise suppression foam on the other valve cover.
makes you wonder if they knew there were issues on the driver's side... i wonder if the very early builds have them
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:34 AM   #2872
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makes you wonder if they knew there were issues on the driver's side... i wonder if the very early builds have them
Or the test engines had ticking on that side that was assumed to be normal so they tried to quiet it. LOL
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:37 AM   #2873
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Or the test engines had ticking on that side that was assumed to be normal so they tried to quiet it. LOL
lol. i can imagine. "sir, this engine is ticking a lot from the drivers side" guy pulls pipe out of mouth "ehh just hit it with a hammer a couple a times"
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:49 AM   #2874
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Noise suppression foam? WTF?

What is next....sawdust in the transmission!?!?!
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Old 10-18-2012, 11:54 AM   #2875
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Yup, the big chunk of foam under the intake plenum and under the engine cover are for noise suppression. LOL
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Old 10-18-2012, 03:52 PM   #2876
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Or the test engines had ticking on that side that was assumed to be normal so they tried to quiet it. LOL

Bingo we have a winner! I bet that foam is doing more harm than good retaining heat, and heat is one of the issues Lee and team neglected to mention in their excuse sheet.
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Old 10-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #2877
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Bingo we have a winner! I bet that foam is doing more harm than good retaining heat, and heat is one of the issues Lee and team neglected to mention in their excuse sheet.
So why did you try to talk me out of removing it? LOL

Lee said heat wasn't an issue. Don't you trust him?
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Old 10-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #2878
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So why did you try to talk me out of removing it? LOL

Lee said heat wasn't an issue. Don't you trust him?
I did suggest removing it a while back, someone said it had to be there for a reason. Oh well. IMO the reason was to suppress sound, side effect it traps heat. Besides Lee knows best!

Any confirmed 2013's with the noise, I read about 2 but I'm not positive!
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:18 PM   #2879
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Not just 2013's, but (what I'm assuming are) 2013 AC heads. My Jeep just hit D1 today...so I'm guessing that whatever heads are being used to replace bad ones are also being used in new production by now. I "hope" everything is OK.
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Old 10-18-2012, 07:19 PM   #2880
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sound suppression material in vehicles is nothing new.

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