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Old 09-23-2013, 11:16 PM   #1
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Vibration Hell- Wife is going to brain me...HELP!!!

Ok yes another vibration thread. I have read other posts but Need help .. Jeep JKUR 13 with 13.5K miles.

performed the following:

Teraflex Springs 3 inch (for 4 door)
Elka Shocks
Exhaust spacers
Teraflex HD Trackbar
Fox ATS Steering stabilizer
Complete 8 arm Control Flex arms (Teraflex)
Currie enterprises Rear Track bar (W/Relocation bracket)
17 inch rims (aftermarket)
35 inch BFG MK2

Now at about 65mph + there is a vibration in the steering wheel. had the wheels balanced twice (Discount Tires) - Live in Phoenix.

Notices that the diff is at about 0 degrees and the front drive shaft is ever so slightly angled up. at the end of the front drive shaft the boot is not pinched but there is not much room.

So I made an apt to get the front drive shaft replaced with an aftermarket (needed to anyway ... it was pretty close to the exhaust with the sway bar connected) and at the same time I was going to have them adjust the pinion angle.

Am I on the right track? or should I have Discount Tires swap out my KM2's for the Good year Kevlar? I only got the tires on Friday.

I have no idea if it is a balance issue -- had them rebalance them a few times. any advice would be great (except put it back to stock )

should I look at those beads for balancing ? Hell I would eat a pound of dirt if it would help.


HELP !!!!!

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Old 09-23-2013, 11:36 PM   #2
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While it could be a balance issue, I don't think beads are the answer. If it balanced with inner and outer weights to 0-0, you could still have an "out-of-round" tire (or a bad wheel) which will balance fine but will cause a shake. If you want, ask the service manager at DT to drive it, and watch the balancing for tire/wheel runout on the balancer. It could be a rim or tire but is often visible.

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Old 09-23-2013, 11:40 PM   #3
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ok .. will do that in the AM .. so you think I should still do the front drive shaft and have them correct the pinion angle?

by the way both tires and wheels are brand new put on by Discount tires.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:46 PM   #4
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I'd start with the tires/wheels first.

If you have another set of known "good" wheels/tires, or a friend with a couple of hours and a JKU, I'd swap wheels both ways and see if the vibration goes with the wheels.

I'd also check pressure DT put in the wheel and it's rating.

Then I'd dig deeper.
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:50 PM   #5
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Ya I dropped the pressure down from 35 to 28 and still has a vibration...
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:52 AM   #6
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Do you know what your castor angles are currently set at? But the vibration being that high would also lead me to believe it is a wheel/tire issue and not drive line.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #7
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so took it back to DT and they did a lug centric balance (after market wheels are lug centric not hub centric -- who knew ) after 3 hours (manager did it) they found that 3 of the 5 tires were good, one of the two bad ones ,was so bad that he would need over 24 oz to balance it. the other one called for 13 oz. He ordered me two new tires. It is a lot better-- but still some but that is due to the one bad tire that had to get mounted. should be in later today.

as to what my castor angles are .. no clue. but I did follow the exact measurements that Teraflex gave. the front diff looks 0 degrees and the drive shaft maybe has a 2 to 3 degree incline. Regardless the front drive shaft is getting replaced and the control arms will be adjusted. What should the castor angle be set at?
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #8
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Unfortunately the measurements are just a starting point. we highly recommend getting an alignment afterwards to precisely set the arms and the castor angle. you want the castor angle at about 4.7 degrees.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #9
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cool .. that will be done tomorrow ... I will let you know how far off I am.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #10
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sounds good, just have them adjust the arms to get you in that neighborhood and you'll be set for steering. Glad the tire shop took the time to help you out and find the bad tires for ya.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:47 AM   #11
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0 degrees would mean your caster is around 6*
I don't know how the stock shaft responds to this but a aftermarket double carden will vibrate.
With a lift some people have to sacrifice caster for pinion and not have vibes.

That being said ... Speed related vibes are usually the tires. I know you said they were balanced. Road forced?
What you can do is rotate one at a time the front tires to the back. If the vibe changes you will know what tire it is.
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Old 09-25-2013, 04:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraFlex View Post
Unfortunately the measurements are just a starting point. we highly recommend getting an alignment afterwards to precisely set the arms and the castor angle. you want the castor angle at about 4.7 degrees.
Ok so they took measurements and I am at about 4.9 to 5.0 degrees and they said they would not recommend changing it and that it looks good. ( they could have charged me for an hour of work to make changes and they recommended not to touch it).

As to the Driveshaft .. I was there at 8:30 and was out at 11:00 with a custom drive shaft and new yokes. they do amazing work. no vibration (just some from the wheels to be expected from the tread design etc). I would recommend them any day of the week.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:26 AM   #13
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ok .. so now I have a new drive shaft and the vibration is still there --- you can feel it in the steering wheel and seats a little--- best description that I can give it is like holding a handheld sander that sort of quick consistent vibration that makes your hand feel funny after a while no whirling sound like a drive shaft out of balance. it starts at about 60-65 MPH and gets a little worse as you increase to 80 MPH its not shimmy or wobble like I said it like someone is holding a sander to the steering wheel. so the Guy at Discount tire is willing to put the Dynabeads in ... My question to the community is ... what else could it be ? I would assume (and yes I am taking a wild ass guess) that if it was a out of round tire that i would start to feel it at 45 and up not just start to feel it at 60 and up. I dont think it is the drive shafts as it was present before I put them on. But what do I know... so do you all think I should take the DT manager up and have him put the Beads in, and if Yes then should I have him take the weights off?

And for the beads I was going to use the .25 gram 6mm BB's rather than the powder from dynabeads that you can fit through the valve stem (what do you think?)

any and all recommendations would be great... I finally have my dream Jeep but I am not enjoying the ride at all. HELP ?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:42 AM   #14
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Two things I would try.

1. I'd swap the set of tires/wheels out for a known good set. Borrow a set off a friend, etc and see if that solves the problem. If you are nearby central ohio, I will loan you a set.

2. If that doesn't solve it, I'd remove the rear driveshaft, put it 4H and see if it goes away. That just singles out a "rear under load" condition which could be a anything beyond the rear output bearing of the tcase.

I don't think the beads are going to solve your problem.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:16 PM   #15
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I still have my factory wheels so I will try that. Now if that solves it then we are talking about a wheel tire issue where the beads would solve it. right?
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:26 PM   #16
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X2 on putting the original tires back on to see if it changes. If it is drive train it should start at a lower speed since the tires are smaller in diameter.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #17
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X2 on putting the original tires back on to see if it changes. If it is drive train it should start at a lower speed since the tires are smaller in diameter.

will do .. but I would have thought that if it was the drive train that it would start around 45 mph not 60-65 and make more of a whirling noise. based on the symptoms I thought it was more inline with tire balancing issue being a vibration.
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:55 PM   #18
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Odds are you need to take it and get the tires properly balanced.Pay attention to how much weights they have to add. If it is a lot have them break the tire loose and rotate it 180 degrees and re balance.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:35 PM   #19
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Regarding the balancing:

You should personally watch the balancing as almost anything will balance including an out of round tire or a bent wheel. You might see the tire wobble side to side and/or up and down. One will give you hop the other a wobble or shimmy -but both conditions will balance.

Look for runout of the rim.

I've balanced my truck and offroad tires for about 20 years (buddy has a couple shops - so it's free if I buy the weights) and I return about 1 out of about every 15 tires if they aren't round. Also, the worst of the 5 goes on as the spare.

I wouldn't spend any time on the beads - if it doesn't balance with the weights, the beads will just cost time and money and likely won't help a bit.

It's a bit of a pain to figure this out, so you almost have to go bit by bit - start with the tires -then the driveshaft.

BTW, If you tightened any bolts before lowering the vehicle to the pavement (while doing the lift) you may want to loosen and retighten them - it's free and easy.

Good luck!
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:12 PM   #20
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totally agree... I am at my wits end to tell you the truth. If I put my stock tires on .. no issue put these tires on ..and we have an issue. Beads did not help ...DT is going to take the car in and put on another set with different rims to see if that helps. honestly I am now questioning if I should have done this to the Jeep to begin with -- I love the jeep dont get me wrong -- but right now it is un drivable. It feels like someone is holding a hand held sander against the steering wheel.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:17 PM   #21
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Vib in wheel is front tires.Vib in seat is rear tires.Tell them to get them balanced or keep swapping tires till they find some that will balance.Take it out for a road test at the tire shop and return if there is still a shimmy. Dont just take their word for it.Tell them you are going for road test and will be back in few minutes and if it is not right they are going to fix it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:49 PM   #22
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Vib in wheel is front tires.Vib in seat is rear tires.Tell them to get them balanced or keep swapping tires till they find some that will balance.Take it out for a road test at the tire shop and return if there is still a shimmy. Dont just take their word for it.Tell them you are going for road test and will be back in few minutes and if it is not right they are going to fix it.
Tire shop has been really good. They are going to take the jeep and try several bfg's that they have in stock and different wheels as well.

Just frustrated at the process....I did not think that making a round tire was so tuff
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Old 10-15-2013, 07:55 PM   #23
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I think vibration is expected rolling on 35" tires at freeway speed, esp mounted to a 1/4-ton rig.
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Old 10-15-2013, 09:48 PM   #24
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rotate your tires, if it goes away its your tires/wheels.
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:37 PM   #25
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Ok so DT found the driver side front and rear were bad. Feels a little better ... Going to a 4x guy to have him double check the caster and pinion angle. If neither of those off to Phoenix rack and axle to have them look at the drive shaft that they built and installed. At least I have a plan.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevlars View Post
Ok so DT found the driver side front and rear were bad. Feels a little better ... Going to a 4x guy to have him double check the caster and pinion angle. If neither of those off to Phoenix rack and axle to have them look at the drive shaft that they built and installed. At least I have a plan.


They may have to rebalance the shafts.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:09 PM   #27
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Kind of frustrating dealing over and over with the tire people. Didn't the guy who balanced them the first time figure that out?


Note to all - At least you didn't buy them over the internet and get a bad one. That would be even less fun.
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:01 PM   #28
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Update issues,were all tires. Pinion angle and caster all good. Lowered tire pressure down to 30 psi hot. After they swapped out the tires smooth, a little vib but the tech said as soon as I get the hub rings it should sort it out. Thanks all for the input.

And yes after this I will NEVER purchase tires on the internet. It would have been hell. DT took a few tries but they never gave up.
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Old 10-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #29
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Good to hear.

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