Wait for a potential engine head tic or lift past dealer warranty allowed? - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 08-29-2012, 07:59 PM   #1
Newb
 
CALJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3
Wait for a potential engine head tic or lift past dealer warranty allowed?

I own a 2012 JKU Sahara MFG 07/12. 1100 miles new and no tick. It does however have some lifter or valve train clatter upon cold start up for a few seconds until it gets the oil up there. Then it is quite as it should be. I want to lift it 3 to 4 inches with 35's but will void dealer warranty. My dealer told me must be 2" or less. Do you think they will still have to replace head if it does go bad or can they say no deal do to lift?

Yes I have been slightly poisoned by the head tic threads and am tic paranoid, thanks alot! I dream of more robust heads and lifters shooting out of the hood. LOL

__________________
CALJKU is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:02 PM   #2
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 20,307
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Research the Magnusson-Moss Act.

__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:04 PM   #3
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 158
How in the hell can a lift cause a head to tick when its a known fact these heads are bound to tick. Tell your dealer to suck it
cmg427 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:05 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
Research the Magnusson-Moss Act.
+1. Do your research and the truth will set you free.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:08 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
2five22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
Research the Magnusson-Moss Act.
Absolutely.

Magnuson
2five22 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:13 PM   #6
ESP
Needs stuff..
 
ESP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 11,338
No lift voids your warranty. Nothing but odometer tampering voids your warranty. Research the many threads here on the board regarding this and you'll find a wealth of info. In short...

If you lift your jeep and the head in your 12 starts to misfire "tick" it is covered under warranty regardless. Any dealership that is quoting any kind of numbers to you is not telling you the truth.
__________________
98 XJ 02 TJ 10 JK 13 JK

2013 JK - Lifted w/ 35s - Bilstein 5100s - Monster TB - Chopped Flares - Can't Keep It Clean
ESP is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #7
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post
No lift voids your warranty. Nothing but odometer tampering voids your warranty. Research the many threads here on the board regarding this and you'll find a wealth of info.
Or even simpler read the 4 lines in the owner's manual that say that.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
abearsfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 43
I wouldn't worry about the tic, jeep/Chrysler says it is a unique combination of driving style/planets in alignment/...etc that evokes the tic. And like others posted, a lift would not effect the "tic" warranty issues should you develop it. Why your dealer even mentioned any amount of lift voiding the warranty is beyond me, if anything they should have said it would void possible drive trains issues if they didn't install it...
abearsfan is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #9
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
Proxy404's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 429
Images: 1
My dealership told me that anything over a 3" lift would void the power-train warranty because the angle of the drive shafts becomes too steep on the stock differentials. Which makes sense because once you swap out the diffs, you no longer have a stock power-train and they're not going to cover some other company's parts.

I agree with the above post though, adding a 2" lift should not void any engine warranty. They're two different parts, suspension and engine. Only thing I could see them having a problem with would be drive shafts.
__________________
It's a Mud Marauder, not a Speed Demon.

2012 JKU Sahara Dozer "Rocksy" - Rampage Recovery Bumpers, Q9000 winch, CB, TF 2.5" w/shocks, 35" Duratracs, RiverRaider Limb Raisers, Block Box LED Lights
Proxy404 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 09:02 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proxy404 View Post
My dealership told me that anything over a 3" lift would void the power-train warranty because the angle of the drive shafts becomes too steep on the stock differentials. Which makes sense because once you swap out the diffs, you no longer have a stock power-train and they're not going to cover some other company's parts.

I agree with the above post though, adding a 2" lift should not void any engine warranty. They're two different parts, suspension and engine. Only thing I could see them having a problem with would be drive shafts.
They can't void the warranty for anything but odometer tampering. That is in black and white in the owner's manual. The only thing they can do is deny warranty coverage on a case by case basis if they can prove that the parts installed caused the failure. That is the law and most dealers either don't know what it says or go out of their way to spread false information.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 09:02 PM   #11
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
"Void" isn't the right word gents. The issue is "non-coverage." Not the same thing.

The lift and anything damaged by it is no longer "covered." That's it. Nothing is "void."
__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 09:11 PM   #12
ESP
Needs stuff..
 
ESP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 11,338
MTH
__________________
98 XJ 02 TJ 10 JK 13 JK

2013 JK - Lifted w/ 35s - Bilstein 5100s - Monster TB - Chopped Flares - Can't Keep It Clean
ESP is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 09:15 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,456
Hmm. I guess one thing that comes to my mind is the tire size issue. Say you run 35's. Your stock 32 is 91.4% the diameter of the new tire. Now, you come in with 95,000 miles and a ticking head. Unless you can prove that you accurately recalibrated your speedo when you had the tires *first* installed, isn't it reasonable to think you may have gone over 100k miles?

I agree I can't see any reason whatsoever why a lift would cause an engine to fail early.
i82much is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 09:57 PM   #14
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 696
no tick

hi, i have no tick on my 2012, warranty on engine and drive line to 50 k miles , i am sure i will be ready for a new jeep before that time, this is not a
issue for some of us, as soon as the 8 speed tranny comes out i will be ordering
my next jeep... if i wanted a older jeep i would have kept my 07 or 01.
well got to go to the mall err trail...
firehawk is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-29-2012, 10:57 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
Lowerumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post
Nothing but odometer tampering voids your warranty.
On just the odometer?




...
Lowerumble is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:15 PM   #16
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much
I guess one thing that comes to my mind is the tire size issue. Say you run 35's. Your stock 32 is 91.4% the diameter of the new tire. Now, you come in with 95,000 miles and a ticking head. Unless you can prove that you accurately recalibrated your speedo when you had the tires *first* installed, isn't it reasonable to think you may have gone over 100k miles?
Interesting question. I've never seen anything like that claimed, but it sounds possible.

Of course, most folks recalibrate when they get 35s+ for the sake of shift points (auto trans) and speedometer accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowerumble

On just the odometer?

...
Nope, whole thing. Odometer tampering basically removes the only way jeep has to know whether you're still under warranty other than the passage of time. Tamper with the odometer, and you're warranty is cooked.
__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:24 PM   #17
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Regarding the odometer, it is considerably off when it is stock. If I remember correctly, ours was 7% in Jeep's favor when brand new. I guarantee they wouldn't extend my warranty to 107k miles when presented with that. FWIW, 7% happens to be the limit the government allows the speedo/odo to be off on new vehicles. It also happens to make it look like you are going 7% farther on each tank of gas while traveling 7% slower than you think which probably combines to give you a 10-12% perceived increase in mileage. Off by 7% coincidental? I am doubting it.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:27 PM   #18
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MA
Posts: 699
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Interesting question. I've never seen anything like that claimed, but it sounds possible.

Of course, most folks recalibrate when they get 35s+ for the sake of shift points (auto trans) and speedometer accuracy.



Nope, whole thing. Odometer tampering basically removes the only way jeep has to know whether you're still under warranty other than the passage of time. Tamper with the odometer, and you're warranty is cooked.
And, honestly, tampering with the odometer these days is nearly impossible. Gone are the days where you could crack open the dash and just roll the counters back. The odometer is all stored in the ECU EEPROM. Good luck going through the code to change it, finding the correct address to manipulate and a legitimate flash programmer to do it all.
__________________
~ Luke
2012 JKU SportS
33x12.5x15 Goodyear Duratracs
MB72 Wheels
R4D4R is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:29 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by R4D4R View Post
And, honestly, tampering with the odometer these days is nearly impossible. Gone are the days where you could crack open the dash and just roll the counters back. The odometer is all stored in the ECU EEPROM. Good luck going through the code to change it, finding the correct address to manipulate and a legitimate flash programmer to do it all.
A factory scan tool will do it pretty easily. They are pricey, but if I was a criminal and had my choice of spending $10k on a new engine because the warranty expired or $5k on a factory scan tool to roll back the odo I would do the latter.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:33 PM   #20
Jeeper
 
sdgmcdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Happy Valley OR
Posts: 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
Regarding the odometer, it is considerably off when it is stock. If I remember correctly, ours was 7% in Jeep's favor when brand new. I guarantee they wouldn't extend my warranty to 107k miles when presented with that. FWIW, 7% happens to be the limit the government allows the speedo/odo to be off on new vehicles. It also happens to make it look like you are going 7% farther on each tank of gas while traveling 7% slower than you think which probably combines to give you a 10-12% perceived increase in mileage. Off by 7% coincidental? I am doubting it.

How do you recalibrate it?
sdgmcdon is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 12:34 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdgmcdon View Post
How do you recalibrate it?
With a Procal.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 01:19 PM   #22
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 421
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
With a Procal.
Will using a Procal or similar be considered as tampering the odometer as essentially you will change its reading?
mcdull is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 01:25 PM   #23
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdull View Post
Will using a Procal or similar be considered as tampering the odometer as essentially you will change its reading?
That's an interesting question that gets debated every so often.

I don't believe there's a clear answer. There could be some regulatory provision or court holding somewhere that provides a pretty compelling answer one way or the other, but I haven't heard of it. (I also, admittedly, haven't actually LOOKED for it.)

My instinctive response is: "It depends." If you use a ProCal to fradulently EXTEND your warranty (such as by telling your computer that you only have 10" diameter tires), then I think there's an argument that you've attempted to "tamper" with the odometer. On the other hand, if you upsize tires and use a ProCal to restore the accuracy of your odometer, then that seems to be quite different--there's something ridiculous about saying that restoring accuracy amounts to "tampering."

So my completely-unresearched-instinct-only opinion would be that "tampering" implies some sort of nefarious intent. You've got to be trying to get some sort of unfair advantage. Otherwise I might end up "accidentally" voiding my warranty by cracking the face of the odometer cleaning off my dash area.

Any other conclusion yields some odd results. For example, if you put on 35" tires and DON'T recalibrate, then you've also effectively made your odometer read low. Is this "odometer tampering"? If so, then can you use a ProCal to fix it, or is that "odometer tampering" as well? If both are "odometer tampering," then that means there's no way to put on larger tires without voiding your entire warranty--from drivetrain to seat stitching to the radio--which just seems crazy, and is not a position I've ever heard of Chrysler taking.
__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 01:32 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Lowerumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Nope, whole thing. Odometer tampering basically removes the only way jeep has to know whether you're still under warranty other than the passage of time. Tamper with the odometer, and you're warranty is cooked.
I forgot that attorneys are notoriously unfunny!
Lowerumble is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #25
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowerumble View Post
I forgot that attorneys are notoriously unfunny!


__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 02:10 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH View Post
Any other conclusion yields some odd results. For example, if you put on 35" tires and DON'T recalibrate, then you've also effectively made your odometer read low. Is this "odometer tampering"? If so, then can you use a ProCal to fix it, or is that "odometer tampering" as well? If both are "odometer tampering," then that means there's no way to put on larger tires without voiding your entire warranty--from drivetrain to seat stitching to the radio--which just seems crazy, and is not a position I've ever heard of Chrysler taking.
You basically followed every sentence you wrote with exactly what my comment was going to be in support of it, so I'll just take up where you left off. The paragraph above is an excellent example of the catch 22 involved in odometer tampering. I think they would have to prove you were doing it to be fraudulent. Why do I say that? Because there are too many dealers out there selling brand new Jeeps with oversize tires and Procals to make it stick otherwise.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 02:25 PM   #27
MTH
Fun Killing Ninja
 
MTH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 8,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
You basically followed every sentence you wrote with exactly what my comment was going to be in support of it, so I'll just take up where you left off. The paragraph above is an excellent example of the catch 22 involved in odometer tampering. I think they would have to prove you were doing it to be fraudulent. Why do I say that? Because there are too many dealers out there selling brand new Jeeps with oversize tires and Procals to make it stick otherwise.
Another solid point.

Imagine the fallout--whether they recalibrated or not, every jeep dealer selling a jeep sitting on 35s would be selling it with no warranty whatsoever. Not just no warranty on the lift, but NO WARRANTY AT ALL. Chrysler would never want to take that position.

If pushed, I think Chrysler would take the position that neither putting on bigger tires nor recalibrating after putting on bigger tires amounts to "odometer tampering" unless you intended to have the recalibration fraudulently extend your warranty.

Simply not bothering to recalibrate or recalibrating only to increase accuracy wouldn't, I'd expect, be enough. It is the fraudulent intent that makes it "tampering."

At least, that'll be what I'll argue if some dealer tech tries to debate with me about my 33s (unrecalibrated) when I'm in looking for warranty service.
__________________
Mike
2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
MTH is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 08-30-2012, 04:30 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
MikeK46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,627
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALJKU View Post
It does however have some lifter or valve train clatter upon cold start up for a few seconds until it gets the oil up there. Then it is quite as it should be.
Mine does that too, as well as many other JK's. Like you said, it's just lack of oil, and not indicative of a faulty head.

__________________
12JK
MikeK46 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



logo carid shop wrangler parts carid fender flares custom wheels store avs deflectors at carid
» Rates
Get low rates on auto insurance in Canada!

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:05 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC