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Warranty work after modifications

4K views 36 replies 20 participants last post by  JCS2179 
#1 ·
I have a 2010 JK Sahara with 6k miles on it I just purchased. It came with a 4" lift, 35 tires, and a new Smitty Built bumper with winch. I took it to the shop today to fix a loose headlight as it would not pass Virginia inspection. The dealer told me they will not fix the head light under warranty as it has modifications such as the lift. This seems ridiculous and should have nothing to do with the lift or putting the bumper on. I already paid them and all they gave me was 15% off which only got it down to 400.00 for 2hrs worth of work.

Do I have a case? I do plan on calling the dealer back but wanted to collect some additional data from the forum first.

thanks
 
#2 ·
Assuming none of the mods had any effect in the headlight, your instinct is correct.

Google "jeep owners," go to the official website, and download a copy of your warranty booklet. It's short and surprisingly straight forward.

If you read it, you'll learn that your warranty applies to your jeep as it left the factory. If you change something--like a new bumper--that new bumper won't be covered. This makes sense of course, as why would Chrysler provide a warranty for a Smittybilt bumper? Smittybilt would cover it with their warranty, but Chrysler would not.

All the original equipment on your jeep will remain covered by Chrysler after you swap your bumper (or coils/shocks/whatever) EXCEPT things damaged by the change you made. For example, if you put in 4" coil spacers, I guarantee you that the boot seal on your driveshaft would shred and need to be replaced. Chrysler would not be obligated to cover that under warranty (even though it's a Chrysler drive shaft) because the modification you made in fact caused the damage.

Almost nothing except odometer tampering outright "voids" your entire warranty. It's a piece-by-piece issue, not a total voidness issue.

So, in short, all original equipment on your jeep is covered unless you make a change that damages it.

That said, you may want to just go to another dealer. They should want warranty work, not want to avoid it.
 
#3 ·
Yep dealerships actually LOVE warranty work because they get money for it from the company who makes the car and supplies the warranty i.e. Chrysler. :popcorn:
 
#10 ·
Yes and no. They love cut and dried cases and the chance to get you to do other things like flush your brake lines, change your diff fluid and clean your throttle body.

They also run the risk of not getting paid if Chrys;er denies the claim. Instead of being proactive and checking some will be lazy and jusy deny it.
 
#4 ·
Study up on the Magnusson-Moss Act (Federal Law passed in 1975) and then approach your dealer again. If they still give you a hard time, find another dealer. There are still dealers who either ignore the law or just don't understand it.


Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.
This is illegal.
Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.
There are also two emission warranties (defect and performance) required under the clean air act. The defect warranty requires the manufacturer to produce a vehicle which, at the time of sale, is free of defects that would cause it to not meet the required emission levels for it's useful life as defined in the law. The performance warranty implies a vehicle must maintain certain levels of emission performance over it's useful life. If the vehicle fails to meet the performance warranty requirements, the manufacturer must make repairs at no cost to the owner, even if an aftermarket part is directly responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer cannot void the performance warranty. This protection is the result of a parts self - certification program developed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Specialty Equipment Market Association (SEMA).
In cases where such a failed aftermarket part is responsible for a warranty claim, the vehicle manufacturer must arrange a settlement with the consumer, but by law the new - vehicle warranty is not voided.
Overall, the laws governing warranties are very clear. The only time a new vehicle warranty can be voided is if an aftermarket part has been installed and it can be proven that it is responsible for an emission warranty claim. However, a vehicle manufacturer or dealership cannot void a warranty simply because an an aftermarket equipment has been installed on a vehicle.
If a dealership denies a warranty claim and you think the claim falls under the rules explained above concerning the clean air act (such as an emission part failure), obtain a written explanation of the dealers refusal. Then follow the steps outlined in the owners manual. However, if this fails, then phone your complaint in to the EPA at (202) 233-9040 or (202) 326-9100.
If a dealer denies a warranty claim involving an implied or expressed new car warranty and you would like help, you can contact the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint, you can call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357), or use the online complaint form. The FTC enters Internet, telemarketing, and other fraud-related complaints into Consumer Sentinel, a secure, online database available to hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide.
 
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#6 ·
I am playing the devil's advocate here, but wouldn't the 4" inch lift cause the lights to be aimed to high and no longer at the same height as when they left the factory thus violating the manufacture warranty.

I am not saying I agree with my statement I just think this is something the dealer might bring up and you should be prepared to argue this.

Good luck!!
 
#7 ·
jadampowell said:
I am playing the devil's advocate here, but wouldn't the 4" inch lift cause the lights to be aimed to high and no longer at the same height as when they left the factory thus violating the manufacture warranty.

I am not saying I agree with my statement I just think this is something the dealer might bring up and you should be prepared to argue this.

Good luck!!
Lifting a jeep does not affect the aim of the headlamp in any way.
 
#8 ·
Thanks for the responses. I call the 800-541-4612 Jeep/Chrysler number and opened a case stating I felt the warranty work was erroneously denied. They stated someone would contact me in the next 48hrs to discuss.

As for the headlight issue, the bucket which holds the headlight in place was broken somehow. It was still intact and not falling out but you could push the top of the headlight in. The headlight was pointing higher due to the broken headlight. The dealer indicated "these things don't just break" stating someone probably bumped into it when putting on the bumper. That is a stretch.

I will repost once I find out what Chrysler tells me.
 
#12 ·
As for the headlight issue, the bucket which holds the headlight in place was broken somehow. It was still intact and not falling out but you could push the top of the headlight in. The headlight was pointing higher due to the broken headlight. The dealer indicated "these things don't just break" stating someone probably bumped into it when putting on the bumper.
See, to me, what the dealer is really saying here is not that your warranty is "void" or some such thing, but merely that this is simply not a warranty issue.

The dealer isn't really saying that your mods "caused" the damage, at least not in the sense that a lift could cause driveshaft problems. Or that your bumper is causing spring sag.

Rather, the dealer is saying that you BROKE something, and that is not a warranty issue. The fact that it may have broken while making a modification is really beside the point. If for example an open pocket knift in my back pocket punctures my seat fabric, that won't be fixed under warranty.

The dealer does have a point about things like this not typically "just breaking." Are you certain it didn't come like this from the dealer to begin with? Assuming it did not, were you there during the bumper install? The dealer could be right.

Regardless of whether it was the bumper install that broke it, so long as it wasn't broken when you got it from the dealer and so long as whatever did break it was substantial enough to be reasonably expected to break a headlight, then this may be on you or your auto insurance.

For all you know, somebody leaned into it in the Home Depot parking lot while trying to load concrete into their vehicle. That wouldn't be a warranty issue.
 
#11 ·
Magnusson-Moss Act to play the other side of the coin the lift and bigger tires may cause more wobble/shake in the chassis while driving and shake nuts/bolts loose. BUT like someone else said find a mod-friendly dealer lots of them out there. If you were having a problem with a diff, or u-joint and have a lift they can make a good arguement that it was caused from the lift, but if you have a problem with your door handle they would have a tough time backing that one up. Because the law also states that they have to prove that the mods you have were some way caused the problem you are having.

You will find a dealer that will do the repairs, as mentioned above they get paid for doing repairs you should be able to find someone to do them. Hopefully there is not some form of notation in you cars "file" on the computer that will have marked your vehicle.
 
#14 ·
I would think that would be more the bulbs themselves, not so much the housings. If I'm not mistaken, those should be covered under the electrical system warranty. If the housing was broken though, like MTH said, that would generally be considered abuse and not covered under any warranty.
 
#15 ·
I think you might have a hard time proving that a broke housing is a factory defect and not caused from an accident. Not saying it isn't a factory defect but proving it may be real hard. This may be more of an insurance claim then a warranty claim
 
#16 ·
The biggest issues with 'proving this' or 'proving that' is that it takes money, real effort, and time. You don't just 'prove it' to the porter or the service manager. You gotta go to court. We all know how that goes these days.....
Lots of good points here. Just because you put bigger tires, it doesn't mean your radiator (UGH sore subject!) wont or shouldn't be covered. Dealers SHOULD want warranty work, as they get paid well by Chrysler, but who knows. My only experience with warranty was with Ford Dealers, and every time I brought my Expedition for service they found LOTS of shit wrong with it....all under warranty!:D I basically sold a "new" Expedition at 90,000 miles haha
 
#17 ·
LOL, resurrection from 2011
 
#19 ·
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:you're welcome boys!!!
(Still same issues...figure Chrysler would've dealt with "things" by now.......maybe the JL. Who knows)
 
#20 ·
Although a Necropost, If we fast forward to today, FCA is still no better than they where in 2011.......

Latest for me is telling me the transmission line that cracked at the thermal valve isn't covered as part of drivetrain warranty when it broke at 18k miles and I'm just outside the 3yr bumper to bumper.
 
#21 ·
Ugh:rolleyes:. Well, its kinda the reason I brought it back to life. As a new Jeep guy, I wanna know more....I got my appt tomorrow for the no-heat-unless-its-on-highest-setting. Im at 17,500 miles from 5/2018. I'll advise. I cant imagine any issues....
(Famous last words...)
 
#22 ·
So update.....I took it in today. 2018 Rubi Recon with 17,400 miles. Automatic with auto temp control. The complain was "No heat unless the dial is at MAX setting. Anything less yields cool temps".
90 min later I get a call and I get asked about my "...front bumper's IPPA off road lights and other mods." Before I get weirded out, I asked why was this even relevant, and she danced around it enough to see where this was going....something about maybe when I modified it I screwed something up and maybe there is a heating tube "or something" missing. No BS! I let her talk in circles for awhile, but I finally had had enough and I asked several questions she couldn't answer. Eventually they allowed me to go back to the service bay, where the tech was fairly cool-ish to me, but whatever. I tried to be as friendly as possible knowing you get more with honey blah blah blah. In the end, they said there were "no issues with the heating system." Nothing was done, and I was not charged a dime.

This is the weirdest part: the tech SHOWED me how he used two (2) different thermometers on the dash vent outlets with the heat ON, and when he set the temp at about 72*, the thermometers registered 90*+. I saw this with my own eyes. The temp itself felt LESS than 72*.
Then he moved the dial to the max at 84*, and the thermometers jumped to about 140*. Now we had heat that felt more than "84*".
We kept looking at each other, and we kept saying how it was obvious the actual temp was/FELT much cooler or hotter than the thermometers were showing us. (He tried different ones.) Same result. He said he had no idea what else to do; he documented it had passed all the re-calibration tests, so I assume he tried a re-flashing. Assume!
We discussed the blend door, but he said that seemed ok. Who knows...

They mentioned a possible big air bubble in the system, and they say keep driving around to see what develops. Something wrong for sure, right??...WTF?
 
#28 · (Edited)
So update.....I took it in today. 2018 Rubi Recon with 17,400 miles. Automatic with auto temp control. The complain was "No heat unless the dial is at MAX setting. Anything less yields cool temps".
90 min later I get a call and I get asked about my "...front bumper's IPPA off road lights and other mods." Before I get weirded out, I asked why was this even relevant, and she danced around it enough to see where this was going....something about maybe when I modified it I screwed something up and maybe there is a heating tube "or something" missing. No BS! I let her talk in circles for awhile, but I finally had had enough and I asked several questions she couldn't answer. Eventually they allowed me to go back to the service bay, where the tech was fairly cool-ish to me, but whatever. I tried to be as friendly as possible knowing you get more with honey blah blah blah. In the end, they said there were "no issues with the heating system." Nothing was done, and I was not charged a dime.

This is the weirdest part: the tech SHOWED me how he used two (2) different thermometers on the dash vent outlets with the heat ON, and when he set the temp at about 72*, the thermometers registered 90*+. I saw this with my own eyes. The temp itself felt LESS than 72*.
Then he moved the dial to the max at 84*, and the thermometers jumped to about 140*. Now we had heat that felt more than "84*".
We kept looking at each other, and we kept saying how it was obvious the actual temp was/FELT much cooler or hotter than the thermometers were showing us. (He tried different ones.) Same result. He said he had no idea what else to do; he documented it had passed all the re-calibration tests, so I assume he tried a re-flashing. Assume!
We discussed the blend door, but he said that seemed ok. Who knows...

They mentioned a possible big air bubble in the system, and they say keep driving around to see what develops. Something wrong for sure, right??...WTF?
It sounds like you expect the vent temperature to be what ever you set the control knob at? I don't believe that's how it works.

There is a plastic mesh looking thing in the dash just a bit under your ignition key. That's an interior air temp sensor. Your climate control is trying to make a best adjustment to get the JEEP'S interior (not necessarily the vent temp) to the temp you set at in a fast and efficient manner. If the interior is really cold relative to the present temp setting then the heat will go high/fast in order to try and bring that temp up fast. As the jeep's interior temp comes up, the vent temperature will slowly drop (or should anyway).

That's why when you crank to 84 the vent temp skyrockets up to 140. The climate control is trying to bring the jeep's interior up to 84 as fast as possible. Once the interior temp starts APPROACHING 84, the vent temp should start to cool down. Once the jeep's temp is AT 84 the vent temp will be at or CLOSE to 84... maybe a bit up or down... what ever is needed to maintain that 84 temp inside the jeep.
 
#23 ·
How the F#@$ does a bumper and light have anything to do w/ your heat working or not. Time for a new dealership.
 
#24 ·
I know I know....covered their ass just in case there is warranty work and it got nowhere anyway. There's a dealer close to my house (this one was close to my work!)
 
#25 ·
That’s why I cancelled my maxcare lifetime, totally useless for a modified rig. Hard enough to get them to fix shit on a stock Jeep. They just can’t seem to ever duplicate the problem. Take your out of warranty Jeep in , they will find a whole laundry list of stuff wrong.
 
#26 ·
HAHA man, that rings true to just about every Agency out there.
 
#27 ·
Air blows out perfectly. From low flow when u select "low," to hard core blow in your eyes when you select "high". Check!
Air comes out of the correct vent. From floor when you select "floor," to windshield when you select "defrost." Check!
It's inexplicable to me how when you select temp of 70*-72*-74*-76*-78*-80*-82* air comes out cold-ish...but when you select 84* it's immediately lava hot!
I feel like I'm back in the Land Rover Lucas-parts world! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
#31 ·
Ok, so if Im on manual mode, then turning it to the RIGHT towards the hottest setting should get the air warmer and warmer, no??
As I turn the dial, I get same cold-ish temp UNTIL I hit the end. Then it gets hot as hell.

Man, u guys are making me really think here. Is it possible im such a dope I dont know how to use my heater???
I could swear awhile ago, it felt like I could slide through the dial and feel temps a lot better
 
#33 ·
Yeah, agreed. Something is up. I'll chase it down. Its gotta be something simple. One of only a few things....
 
#34 ·
UPDATE: Even thou it's been a few days busy with work, here's the update I promised on the heating issued described above. So you all know the 1st ("local" to my work area) dealer took my Jeep in and about 90 mins later started giving me the "...Hummm maybe those bumper lights were improperly installed", and "...maybe there is some plumbning missing and that's why heating if weird", and all the all-too-well-known mods vs warranty dance. It didn't go well, and I walked. Somebody here -excuse my poor memory- suggested it was probably "time for a new dealer," so I listened and I went to another ("local" now to my home area instead) dealer and expressed the same complaint about the heat only being actually HOT on the highest setting of the temp control knob.
Right off the bat, the Service Advisor was much more receptive. They knew my Jeep is a 2018 with 17,400miles and a CPO Jeep. He walked me through his best guesses (the usual stuff for this issue) and sent me to the customer waiting area. They worked on it for a few hours. Eventually later in the day, they gave me a car to go home in, and related they "needed more time." The next day I went back upon their call back, and he AND THE TECH sat down with me and explained the Jeep had 1) passed all electronic calibrations, and 2) an inspection had revealed the blend door was fully functional. He then said the heat appeared to be working properly, BUT acknowledged the temperature on the driver side and the passenger side appeared to be different. He then said in order to chase down the probable suspect issue - 3) the electronic unit head itself - they needed to follow the wiring back to the front of the firewall, where the 'brain' is located. The ONLY time the "mods" came up now, is because I have a Genesis Dual Battery System, and a Docking Station on the dash, plus HAM and CB radio hook ups. In order to chase this issue, the most of the dash needed to be removed. The tech said the unit itself WOULD totally be under warranty IF defective (they were not sure at this point), and so would be all the labor to remove and re-install everything. HOWEVER, removing all the after market modifications installed by me would not, meaning the labor to remove everything and then put it all back would be labor out of my pocket. I'm not going to lie: THIS particular part of the explanation did make sense to me. The S/A also said they felt my work was very clean and proper, and they couldn't guarantee MY previous quality of work. They also gave me a choice to remove everything myself and bring it back.
We discussed the coolant with the suspected stop-leak from factory, and they both really said it wasn't so. This newer coolant has been a solid performer (In their view at least), and told me there was no need to flush it. We talked about the heating core and they both related if that was the issue, I'd have NO heat at all. This is not the case. They would have no issue warrantying that work too.
So....I received a little more "training" on the use of the AUTO feature and also on the use of the heat HAHA. I felt pretty douchy. But when inspected closely, you admit its not a Lexus 470 where there is DUAL heating controls. It seems, like a bunch of you have reasoned here- that the temp dial is not a specific exact temp, but mostly a guide and a range of heating. I seem to feel better about it now that I expect certain things at certain levels of the dial.
Anyway, that's it. That's all I have.
 
#35 ·
Well, I think I've gotta stop fighting it. It's GOTTA be the core. I did a hard core reverse-heating-core flushing today. I could clearly see a LOT of sediment flowing out onto the bucket. Too fine to feel like sand on the bottom of the bucket, but I could easily see it going out. Every time I swapped between regular flush and reverse flush, you could see more and more. I even ran some CLR through it and let it sit for 30min. Man, ridiculous the amount of more and more sediment that came out. After of about 90 min of flushing and prolly 50 5-gl buckets out to the street (It was just water, there were only 2 buckets with the coolant currently IN the core at the time of start up) I could see very little sediment flowing through it. Still there, but I didnt want to keep going. Anyway, right after re-fill and hook up I fired up and sure enough had great heat on ALL settings of the dial....Mission accomplished! Victory!



Well ****, victory is a funny word. 'Cuz about 2 hours later while driving on the highway at 75mph it is back to the same issue: Great heat ONLY at highest setting of the knob. EVERYTHING else back from highest setting, yields cool air.
Fan works great. 1st setting is low. High setting is wicked fast. Check.
Selector works great. Floor is floor, dash is dash, and defrost is defrost. Check.
Temp-selection is off. 66-68-70-72-....78-80-82 ALL cool...84 = Lava hot!

So there is it....
 
#36 ·
Sounds like it might be something other than the heater core. IMO, core would be no heat all the time or very little.
 
#37 ·
SEE? I'm on board with this thought process too! NO heat at all = core. .....but weird I did have great heat for an hour after a core flush. Maybe a FULL coolant flush: radiator, reservoir, engine block AND core again. Dunno....frustrating.

Maybe the head unit. Dunno...
 
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