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Old 08-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #61
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Curious about a couple of things:

-why talk about a CRD? Why not a TDI? Seems that VW, BMW, and others (check out What Audi did at LeMans this year!) are producing some great diesels. If we're tapped into the Euro market for powerplants, why not see what our buddies oerthere can throw in? I mean, that new diesel for the Grand Cherokee puts out close to what the Pentastar does for Tq and Hp, right? (I'm not very smart on diesel stuff (or anything really!) so not sure why CRD or TDI is better)

-Will GWV rating increase or will usable load (including towing capacity) decrease? I just towed about 2,500lbs from AL to CA with my 2012 JKU. I'd have to buy a different trailer if the weight of a diesel went up much higher without the weight rating increasing.

-let's say we start putting more and more diesel engines on the road. Is the current infrastructure for our fuel refineries able to easily swap between creating gasoline vs diesel? Seems like that would require a major muscle movement.
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Old 08-18-2012, 12:13 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by abmclaug
Question: does it really cost $8000 more for the manufacture to install a diesel engine in a RAM truck, as an example? I know it cost us the consumer, but come on??? What an up charge!

My vote, There should be a Diesel option for the Wrangler & Unlimted.
I doubt they'll open the books to let us see, but it certainly sounds plausible. Just consider the relatively low volume of the engine versus the R&D, engineering and fixed costs that they'd have to cover.

I'd certainly like to see a diesel in the Wrangler, but did the lack of one keep me from ordering a Wrangler? No. Would a diesel option make people more likely to choose a Wrangler over a competitor's vehicle? In the absence of actual market research, nobody knows, but my hunch would be probably not. People choose a Wrangler because they like the Wrangler for what it is. The power train choice is probably not a strong purchase motivator in this segment. If you're a manufacturer and offering a diesel wouldn't bring you significant additional sales, why would you bother to offer one?

It will be interesting to see what GM does with the small diesels they're introducing next year (the Cruze will offer a diesel next year marketed as the ECO-D). Fuel economy is a big purchase motivator in that segment though.

2008 Chevy Avalanche Z-71
2012 GMC Sierra Denali HD Duramax
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Old 08-18-2012, 08:45 PM   #63
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I used to be a hughe diesel fan. I had the 94 ram with the new body style and the cummins. That was a great truck and engine, it could pull anything and got great mpg.

These new so called diesel engines they are putting into trucks these days are junk. Shure they makes lots of power and can still pull a house off its foundation but they don't come close to getting the kind of mpg the old ones did. The old engines had an exhaust that had a kind of neat smell, at least to me. These new ones smell like somthing has gotten killed and left to rot.

The old style fuel injectors were very robust and the engine could run on just about any kind of oilly fuel. The new ones are fragile, if you try run one on anything like the old ones could then you just killed your fuel system. So now you have to buy all new injectors, high pressure fuel pump, high pressure fuel lines, and flush out all the low pressure system including dropping the fuel tank and making it look like it never had fuel in it before.

I would have been proud to have any old style diesel including that conversion from florida in a wrangler. I for one wouldn't want one of these new fragile hunks of junk in something that goes places where the enviroment might just kill it. They have so many sensors on them to monitor the exhaust temps, nox emissions, exhaust back pressure, fuel temp., and it equipped urea temp, level, and if any of these get out of spec or knocked off by something out there then best case you will have reduced power. In some cases you might get forced idle and worst case it will tell you to pull over now and it shuts off and won't even crank.

I say all this because I work on these new engines day in and day out. They are nothing like the ones of old. Any of todays engines would be very happy sitting in the engine bay of a race car. But take them out where there is lots of dirt and water, like farm fields, and they get very unhappy. Like I say I am a professional technician and these days when someone asks me what I would recommend for them to buy I aks them two questions.

First I ask do you do lots of towing, if they say yes then I say then the diesel is probably the best for you. Towing is where the diesel wins hands down, the more load you put on a diesel the more power it makes. If they say just now and then I say then I would get a big gas engine.

Second I ask are you looking at getting a diesel for better mpg. If they say yes then I say that isn't going to happen unless you intend on doing lots of towing. Once again the only time a modern diesel engine gets better mpg is when towing.

So the only way I would consider a diesel in a wrangler these days is if they can put one in there that doesn't have any of the above mentioned faults. I sure wish the epa had left the diesel engines alone, they are the ones that ruined them for us. Last school I went to on the latest engine the instructor said "this is the engine that the epa designed and we built".

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