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Old 01-25-2013, 03:06 PM   #1
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Welcome Distributing grab handles

Moderator EDIT - Bad News First:
I'd like to share my experience with purchasing front and rear steel grab handles from Welcome Distributing. I realize this thread is going to need pics so I will add those using my phone right after I'm done typing this on my laptop.

The concept is extremely basic- a bent metal bar that mounts using two factory threaded holes that provides a super solid handle and looks good too. I won't dive into my resume, but I'll say I consider myself a pretty mechanical guy. I thought that I would have the brain power to install such a simple metal bar.

All was good until I ran into a problem on the install (2013 JKUR). Basically, you take out two bolts near the upper corner of the windsheild and put a small spacer in the top one and a long spacer in the bottom one. Then, you start threading two bolts through the grab handle and into the spacers, working it around until it fits. My passenger side was great, my drivers side top spacer was too short about 1/4" and I could not tighten the setup enough without the handle crushing into the roof (or at least the plastic in the area).

Here's the problem- I can fix this myself, but I just want to make sure that I got the right parts and Im not being braindead. So I call Ken (the owner?) at Welcome Dist. and tell him very politely that I'm having a bit of trouble and that the top spacer appears to be too short. All I can say is after that I received some of the worst customer service I've had in a long time (and seriously guys.... Im very patient and very understanding).

LONG story short- I like the handles and I made them work (I have a mill and a lathe at home... I machined my own damn spacer) but the customer service really left a bad taste in my mouth. If I had to do it over again, I'd order the Synergy metal handles. For roughly the same $$$, they are powder-coated, have better welds (mine were decent at best and left a bunch of messy slag) and have a cleaner finished look (although a slightly harder install).

Moderator EDIT.... Good News a Couple Days Later: (also posted later in this thread)...

WOW!

I'll type more later once I'm done working, but I just got a phone call from Ken. He absolutely made things right by me. I refused a very generous material offer from him but accepted his apology and explanation that he was simply misunderstood. Because of this phone call, I now have made a complete 180 on my feelings towards Welcomes customer service.


Like I said, I'll type more later, but unbeknownst to me Ken started a research program into the problem I originally stated and found a variance in Jeep's plastic linings. Ken has taken this very seriously, thrown out a thousands of dollars in spacers and is slightly tweaking the design to account for this. I could tell that he really is passionate about his product by how concerned and serious he took this single issue.


In the end, the variance appears to be on Jeeps end, and the customer service at Welcome is superb at its core. These guys really will go out of their way to only do it one thing- make the customer happy.


Thanks Ken!

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:29 PM   #2
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Thanks for the vendor feedback. Sometimes people have off days but that doesn't excuse disrespecting someone, especially a customer. I would still like to see photos so put them up when you get a chance and let us know if there was any follow up with the vendor.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:35 PM   #3
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This is why we have the forum, well one of the reasons. Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:45 PM   #4
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I received a set of the front handles a few days ago. I can measure the spacers if you'd like to compare them to yours. I don't plan to install them for at least a week or two.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:45 PM   #5
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Installed mine no problem on a 13 JKR. When I placed my order I didn't mention that I heard about the product on this forum so I missed a 10% discount. I mentioned it to Ken in an email and he sent me a nice JK key fob that was valued above the 10% I missed out on. All in all the product was excellent and customer service was spot on for me.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:07 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by CampThree1982 View Post
Installed mine no problem on a 13 JKR. When I placed my order I didn't mention that I heard about the product on this forum so I missed a 10% discount. I mentioned it to Ken in an email and he sent me a nice JK key fob that was valued above the 10% I missed out on. All in all the product was excellent and customer service was spot on for me.
I'm sure they work most of the time and I bought them based on the great feedback from forum members. I guess I'm pretty happy with the product in general but like I said the CS sucked. Oh well. In Kens defense, he did call me back during a time I would deem "after hours" and that was nice customer service. But everything after is really what stuck with me.

I WILL GET PICS Almost done at work!
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:32 PM   #7
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Let's remember there are two sides to every story. I personally don't see a need for this thread. It's between you and Ken. No need to warn anyone here. My handles came meticulously wrapped and packaged with very clear and concise directions. My handles fit perfectly. The left side did slightly indent the plastic but so what ? It doesn't hurt a thing.

Ken was even nice enough to send a great Christmas card. I'm sure he sent them out to everyone. I highly recommend his handles to anyone looking for the last pair they'll ever need. They're so strong I can hang on them. They've made my life far easier getting in and out. I'm thankful he's selling them.

btw...who needs pictures. The guy makes a quality product and I'll stand with him totally here.

Just saying..
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:18 PM   #8
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You don't see a reason for someone who has had a poor experience with a vendor to share it? But you saw a more justifiable reason to share your positive experience? I'm glad he started the thread and shared his CS nightmare, and I'm glad you added your positive experience with the product. People typically don't pretend they've been slighted for no reason at all :-)
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:21 PM   #9
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alright... let's not turn this into a flame fest. i'll lock the thread if that's where it's headed. we agreed there is value in the information RattleDog posted. some of that information has been edited back, but it's still worth the review.

we're not going to let you guys go back and forth sniping each other....
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by xzy View Post
Let's remember there are two sides to every story. I personally don't see a need for this thread. It's between you and Ken. No need to warn anyone here. My handles came meticulously wrapped and packaged with very clear and concise directions. My handles fit perfectly. The left side did slightly indent the plastic but so what ? It doesn't hurt a thing.

Ken was even nice enough to send a great Christmas card. I'm sure he sent them out to everyone. I highly recommend his handles to anyone looking for the last pair they'll ever need. They're so strong I can hang on them. They've made my life far easier getting in and out. I'm thankful he's selling them.

btw...who needs pictures. The guy makes a quality product and I'll stand with him totally here.

Just saying..

I disagree I think it is important for people to voice thier bad service complaints just as it is important to voice good service complaints. Too many people get hosed and never bring it up. I also would like to see pictures, if it is not right maybe he got the wrong parts. Kind of strange blindly defend a product when you do not know for sure the op in fact got the correct parts.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:09 PM   #11
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I just checked the spacers and bolts that came with my kit. I did notice that the stud which screws into the windshield frame protrudes a different length from the base of each of the spacers. You would think the top for each side of the windshield would be the same and the bottom would also be the same on each side.

A little explanation: each hexagonal spacer has a threaded hole in each end. A stud screws into one end and in turn screws into the windshield frame. The bolt that holds the handle then screws into the other end of the spacer. As I said, on the kit that I received, the exposed part of every stud is a different length and I have been unable to budge the studs in the two longer bottom spacers. I haven't tried real hard but they seem loctited in. The difference between the exposed part of the studs on the two bottom spacers is about 1/4 inch. Maybe that makes no difference. I haven't tried to install them yet.

OK...on the top two short spacers, I was unable to screw one stud into the spacer as far as the other was already in. On the one that is still longer, the hole in the spacer is clearly off center and at an angle, so that when I screw it into the windshield, it will wobble...and it may make it hard for the bolt to go in the other end because of being at an angle. I pulled the studs and bolts from the bottom spacers and peered inside...measuring the length of each hole. The spacers are threaded separately from each end...and the depth of each thread is different on each spacer (you'd think it would be the same). If one of the threads was too deep, it would make the other too shallow, especially on the shorter spacers...so that the bolt might not thread in as far as it should, making the spacer appear too short. RattleDog, did you try a shorter bolt? Did you measure the two spacers to see if they were actually a different length before calling Ken?

The instructions also say: "Both bolts will be hard to tighten the last few turns but they will go." It seems that if the threads were good clean threads, there would be no difficulty in screwing the bolts into the spacers.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but it appears there could be a quality control issue with the spacers...specifically with the threading depths or angles. I talked with Ken about the time I ordered mine and found him to be very affable. But still, I've run a business for the past 37 years and the customer is always right. I would have sent out a new spacer or two without any further questions.

The grab handles appear to be a good product and I don't foresee any real problem installing mine...especially now that I know I can reverse the two bottom spacers if necessary so that the bolt can thread all the way in. I'll probably also use some thread lubricant or anti-sieze when installing the bolts.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:40 PM   #12
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That sucks you had a negative experience rattledog. I have these handles coming to me in a few days and will be throwing them into my 08. I had a few problems with placing an internet order and had to contact welcome distributing. Ken personaly called me and I had a 5 min convo about my situation/ the handles.

He helped me out with the shipping problem, and even told me to wait on placing the order so that I can get his new design that allows neoprene handles to be slipped onto the product.

Point of story- Good days and bad days. Sorry to hear about your experience, he seemed like a cool dude.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:50 PM   #13
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If you look at the website and the listing for this item, both versions are pictured. Which ones do you get these days? Are the neoprene a replacement design? I personally like the look of the closed loop design vs. the neoprene-ready design.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:54 PM   #14
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OP may have good point but apples to apples do you have the new improved style handles(those with cushion grips) or the original older style. I agree I had a good purchase experience first time and small but workable hiccup second time. they just got extremely busy and it worked out. His customer service is quality and those that have purchased from him can attest he puts his business card with personal cell phone in each package along with a handwritten thank you note. just my .02
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:37 PM   #15
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I finally installed mine. I think I see what RattleDog was talking about. The top bolt would not thread in far enough on either side to make the handle contact the spacer without cracking the Jeep's plastic trim. But I don't see that as a problem. When I heard plastic start to crack, I backed off a half turn. Yes, there is about a 1/4-inch space between the handle and the top spacer...but I could still hang off these things all day. They are very sturdy.

The only problem I ran into with the install was that a hole in one of the top spacers was clearly off-center and drilled at an angle rather than straight in as it should have been. For the lower hole in the handle to line up, I had to loosen the top spacer 1/2 turn, which moved the handle back about 1/8" and the hole lined up.

Minor problem...great product.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #16
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In the plus side of the equation I installed the fronts on Saturday and went in a 2013 JKU without a hitch.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:18 PM   #17
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I installed the older design in my 2013 and had a similar problem with the spacers. They could go in much further into the a pillar, but then the handle wouldn't line up. I backed them out and bolted the handles in. There is no play and they seem very sturdy. But it does make me worry a bit that the bolt might bend from the leverage placed on them.

I meant to contact WD to ask about it, but it fell through the cracks. All service provided was great, and the Christmas card/thank you was personal and heartfelt. Nice touch for a business. It would be great to hear from WD here if he has a view on the spacers being correct and if it was intended this way.

Love the product and stability it provides.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #18
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In the plus side of the equation I installed the fronts on Saturday and went in a 2013 JKU without a hitch.
So does the handle contact the top spacer? I don't really think it needs to...but just curious. There's no way I could have tightened mine down enough to make contact without cracking the plastic trim. They are plenty sturdy as is and do not move at all.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:35 PM   #19
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First of all I'd like to apologize if I offended anyone in my previous post. I didn't know there was a new and improved version. My way of thinking is that new and improved usually means good for the manufacture and bad for the consumer.

Without hopefully not offending anyone again I don't care for the new and improved version. I don't think I would buy a pair. The new one's look like they could be a pita if they weren't made exactly right. The old ones because of the holes at opposite ends there's a little give to get them bolted down properly without much trouble.

Just a tip after I installed mine, I bought hardened black Allen bolts and replaced them one at a time. I like it better than the original bolts with are too soft imo. If no one minds I'll post a few pictures....and no plastic cracked. The left handle indented the plastic slightly but that's all. A few washers would have eliminated it had I wanted.

Still, I'm thinking the new version is ok, but wished they left well enough alone. It's easy to wrap them with something like tennis racket tape like I did. I think the old style are also a little stronger, and I don't like the end sticking out like the new ones do. Too bad they don't go back to the old style. Maybe they wanted to sell grips, but they could have offered both styles too.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #20
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Can't type a long reply right now (working), but heres a few quick pics.

BTW, several holes were clearly off center and at an angle on my spacers. I don't know if that's by design or intentional, but I don't see the reason for it.

With my custom (longer) spacers for the top, these things fit fine and I'm really loving them.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:33 PM   #21
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I like my handles, but I had basically the same issue. I didn't tighten mine all the way as not to crush the windshield surround. My drivers side was very hard to get both bolts started, & may have cross threaded, but they both have a tight & sturdy feel. I also called Ken, & he was very nice, I would buy from them again.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #22
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Well it obviously sounds like they have some quality control issues w/ the installation hardware. Wish I would have known about this prior to ordering mine.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:42 PM   #23
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WOW!

I'll type more later once I'm done working, but I just got a phone call from Ken. He absolutely made things right by me. I refused a very generous material offer from him but accepted his apology and explanation that he was simply misunderstood. Because of this phone call, I now have made a complete 180 on my feelings towards Welcomes customer service.

Like I said, I'll type more later, but unbeknownst to me Ken started a research program into the problem I originally stated and found a variance in Jeep's plastic linings. Ken has taken this very seriously, thrown out a thousands of dollars in spacers and is slightly tweaking the design to account for this. I could tell that he really is passionate about his product by how concerned and serious he took this single issue.

In the end, the variance appears to be on Jeeps end, and the customer service at Welcome is superb at its core. These guys really will go out of their way to only do it one thing- make the customer happy.

Thanks Ken!

BY the way, if a moderator could add this post to the end of my original post and put UPDATE before it that would be nice. I think Welcome Dist. deserves it too for any newcomers
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:48 PM   #24
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"refused a very generous material offer"?
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleDogUSA View Post
WOW!

I'll type more later once I'm done working, but I just got a phone call from Ken. He absolutely made things right by me. I refused a very generous material offer from him but accepted his apology and explanation that he was simply misunderstood. Because of this phone call, I now have made a complete 180 on my feelings towards Welcomes customer service.

Like I said, I'll type more later, but unbeknownst to me Ken started a research program into the problem I originally stated and found a variance in Jeep's plastic linings. Ken has taken this very seriously, thrown out a thousands of dollars in spacers and is slightly tweaking the design to account for this. I could tell that he really is passionate about his product by how concerned and serious he took this single issue.

In the end, the variance appears to be on Jeeps end, and the customer service at Welcome is superb at its core. These guys really will go out of their way to only do it one thing- make the customer happy.

Thanks Ken!

BY the way, if a moderator could add this post to the end of my original post and put UPDATE before it that would be nice. I think Welcome Dist. deserves it too for any newcomers
Now that is totally awesome Rattledog! Definitely sounds like the Ken I did business with. Way to go!
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:07 PM   #26
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Well that's awesome news RD.

My feeling toward them has warmed after reading your experience today with him. I'm seriously going to consider these handles after a few of their bugs get worked out.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:12 PM   #27
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"refused a very generous material offer"?
Yes. I don't want to say what he offered so he doesn't get slammed with a bunch of freeloaders, but he offered to make it up materially (ex. money, hardware) and I refused because that's not what my concern was. I'm happy with the end product and the spacer issue was minor (now fixed/redesigned from Welcome). My original concern was on a customer service/attitude level. On that level, I am very happy now as Ken called back and basically said he was sick to his stomach knowing that even a single product left his facility with even a minor problem and correcting the issue and making sure I was happy was a top priority. He also gave me a very sincere apology that his attitude was mistaken as brushing me off. He made it clear that he wouldn't allow a customer to be unsatisfied, and he will do whatever it takes to make sure things are right. Now THAT'S customer service.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:24 PM   #28
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #29
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So does the handle contact the top spacer? I don't really think it needs to...but just curious. There's no way I could have tightened mine down enough to make contact without cracking the plastic trim. They are plenty sturdy as is and do not move at all.
Mine don't contact all the way either but being able to do pull ups off of these is the least of my worries.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #30
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Mine will be here tomorrow, should have time to install them on Wed.

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