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Old 06-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #61
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We should probably take a step back and ask...exactly what are your plans for this Jeep? Just to cruise topless? Daily driver? 2nd/3rd vehicle? Possible future off-roading? All of that kind of stuff.

You are looking at a pretty stripped down Wrangler right now. Let's make sure you get what you want and what will keep you happy for awhile.

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Old 06-10-2013, 06:01 PM   #62
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We should probably take a step back and ask...exactly what are your plans for this Jeep? Just to cruise topless? Daily driver? 2nd/3rd vehicle? Possible future off-roading? All of that kind of stuff.

You are looking at a pretty stripped down Wrangler right now. Let's make sure you get what you want and what will keep you happy for awhile.
Lol, yeah, I agree with you.

For this car, I do plan for it to be a DD, while doing some off-roading too; maybe a few times a month. I plan for this car to stick with me until it gives out on me, so I'm not looking to replace in a few years time.

I've thought about ordering a 2014, and I think I might. I've been looking for a cherry red Wrangler, but it seems almost impossible to find, so I go with my next option: black.

What do I want in my Wrangler?
A soft-top
A/C
AUX input

Would power windows and all that be nice? Heck yeah. But do I really need it? No.

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Old 06-10-2013, 06:32 PM   #63
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What do I NEED in my Wrangler?

A soft-top
A/C
AUX input
3.73
Anti-Spin
Big wheels and tires (aftermarket)

Would power windows and all that be nice? Heck yeah. But do I really need it? No.
3.73, LSD are great options if you plan on wheeling or going to larger tires... Hardtop was mandatory for me.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:50 PM   #64
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I'd probably want a 2" lift and better tires.

Let's see how negotiations go. I really need my Jeep.
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:54 PM   #65
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... I really need my Jeep.

That's how all of us feel about our Jeeps. But.....

If the salesman senses that, and they are very good at it, he'll take you to the cleaners and back again!
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Old 06-10-2013, 08:58 PM   #66
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Piranhas, I tell you!
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Old 06-10-2013, 09:19 PM   #67
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I actually found this helpful: Confessions of a Car Salesman

You will learn a lot of the tricks and cons salesmen use all the time. It helps to be a step ahead of them.....
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #68
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I actually found this helpful: Confessions of a Car Salesman

You will learn a lot of the tricks and cons salesmen use all the time. It helps to be a step ahead of them.....
WOW! that was a great read! thanks so much for sharing the link.
it's eye-opening really. it's true, you gotta be one step ahead of them.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:39 PM   #69
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If you know the particular vehicle you want and options, invoice price, trade value and going interest rates you can go make the deal. Don't be afraid to walk out.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:44 PM   #70
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If you know the particular vehicle you want and options, invoice price, trade value and going interest rates you can go make the deal. Don't be afraid to walk out.
I know. The hard part is getting them to agree. I emailed someone today offering them $24k OTD. Haven't sprung my trade in on them yet. Fingers crossed.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:34 PM   #71
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My opinion was that the dealer could use the holdback money to keep the lights on and pay his personnel. I visited 3 dealers. One told me he couldn't go below MSRP so I walked out. With the second, we were negotiating a price and I told him I was willing to kick in a couple of hundred bucks for him and his buddies to split, (still well below invoice) but I wasn't paying for any of that other stuff. When he said he couldn't meet my price, I pulled out the business card of the third dealer and explained that the third guy had the same jeep on his lot in a better color and I was gonna call him and see if he wanted my business instead. Suddenly, he was willing to make a deal.

It was all nice and friendly until they got me in with the finance guy who really tried to turn the screws on me. Honestly, if I hadn't done a ton of reading and been prepared for his antics, he would have suckered me into some expensive add-on I didn't need. Beware the finance department.

Email is easy and all, and I understand you have a long drive. But I think you stand a better chance of making the deal when you are face to face with money in hand so they know you are serious. And at the end of the month at the end of the model year helps a lot, too. And as everyone else has said, you have to be prepared to walk out. You are the one with the money, so you hold all the cards.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:09 AM   #72
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^^^ Good advice. Best to pit dealerships against each other and have them keep undercutting the other... until you find your lowest price. It works.
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Old 06-11-2013, 05:20 AM   #73
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why cant anyone make money being honest anymore? After buying my jeep from the dealer, and the horrible experience they made it, i will never buy a car from a dealer again. Infact i will be the jerk who plugs an obd diagnostic system in after the test drive, and who climbs under it looking for such items that the dealer missed on their inspection. Things like dana 30 housings broken in half and non existant sway bars and leaking shocks.......

They did take me mudding after i said i wouldnt buy it though. Lmao.
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Old 06-11-2013, 06:38 AM   #74
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I had far more trouble trying to buy a vehicle off the lot than simply ordering.

You would think it would be the opposite since you would think dealers would want to move vehicles off the lot first. But my guess is that if you walk into a dealer all puppy-dog eyed over a Wrangler (especially if it has easy to move options) they will try to take you for all you are worth. I walked out of several dealers in late 2011 when I was looking at 2012's on the lot. Ordering my 2013 was much, much, much easier.
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Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 AM   #75
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salesman, not all of course, do try to squeeze every last penny out of you. even if they agree yo your offer, the F&I guy comes in and adds on a bunch of crap people don't need after you said you didn't want any extras in the first place.

and then they wonder why we always say "we're just looking!"
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Old 06-11-2013, 09:46 AM   #76
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When I walk into a dealer, I have my laptop with me (I am an insurance underwriter by trade, so I'm always using spreadsheets).

I did it for my vehicle, and I did it for my wife's vehicle we purchased 18 months ago.

I have the base price of the vehicle and every option listed (both MSRP and Invoice). I bold the options I wante and sum up those columns.

Below that, I have:
Trade-in amout, doc fee, destination fee, taxable total, taxable total minus trade in tax, title, license, ect... I have the pricing down to the dollar and I compare their spreadsheet to mine.

It makes playing the shell game really easy, and I have an Excel tab for every vehicle at every dealer that I look at.
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Old 06-11-2013, 10:42 AM   #77
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When I walk into a dealer, I have my laptop with me (I am an insurance underwriter by trade, so I'm always using spreadsheets).

I did it for my vehicle, and I did it for my wife's vehicle we purchased 18 months ago.

I have the base price of the vehicle and every option listed (both MSRP and Invoice). I bold the options I wante and sum up those columns.

Below that, I have:
Trade-in amout, doc fee, destination fee, taxable total, taxable total minus trade in tax, title, license, ect... I have the pricing down to the dollar and I compare their spreadsheet to mine.

It makes playing the shell game really easy, and I have an Excel tab for every vehicle at every dealer that I look at.
Oh wow, I had forgotten about Excel. That's a good idea. It's always good to be prepared when dealing with salesmen.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #78
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It's not rocket science here... Salespeople want you to buy at the highest price possible - therefore making as much as possible for the dealership, maximizing their commission.

An educated buyer knows the invoice price, interest rate/terms and the going trade-in value. Almost impossible to get screwed over if you know these things. Don't buy anything that they try to sell you when you go to the next guy either. If you are buying and borrowing money to do so, the dealership gets a kickback from the bank for the loan. They can and will sell Under Invoice price as they'll still be making money. Do your homework and be an educated buyer.
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:46 AM   #79
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For Wrangler's, dealer holdback is 3% of invoice. So basically, excluding any other factory to dealer incentives, 3% under invoice is dealer cost.

Now, there are a couple of Chrysler bonues (volume sales and unit sales) that are added to thsee numbers as compensation as well. Pat was nice enough to detail this information in another post about a year and a half ago, and if I remember correctly, Wrangler's did not qualify for unit sales, but did count towards volume sales.

Factory cost is close to 5% below invoice.

With Affiliated pricing, Chrysler rebates that other 2% (1% to dealer, 1% to buyer) minus $75.

It is why Pat has his flat 2% below invoice pricing advertised if you are an Affiliate member. The buyer gets the vehicle for 2% below invoice without any haggling what so ever, and he gets to keep most of the holdback. Win-win for all, especially if you hate having to haggle. Oh, and Field's is a pretty nice dealership....I've been out there a couple of times.

If you understand the numbers, buying a new car is easy. Not only did I walk into a dealer with my laptop, but I had a folder with print outs from KBB, Edmunds, and Truecar showing the estimated value of my vehicle...AND...a current offer from Carmax.

Between my spreadsheet and my trade-in folder, buying my Wrangler was pretty painless.

The only time I haggled was over the trade-in, and even that was funny because I had all of the information in front of me. It is hard to low-ball someone when they can drive it up the street to Carmax and get a $10,000 check. They ended up matching the Carmax offer which benefited me because it also lowered my taxable amount of the Wrangler.

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