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Old 06-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #61
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One of the guys on my forum works in a lab that tests fluids. Here are the results he found...note, RP was not tested in this test (but he has commented on how they tested it later on a different occasion, and found it was subpar. While you guys are free to draw your own conclusions, I trust his opinion and actual testing, so his word is good enough for me.

Here are the results of his test......
___________________________________________


1. All the oils were 10w30 viscosity
2. The oils tested were:
Amsoil (syn)
Castrol GTX Drive Hard (mineral)
Valvoline Synpower (syn)
Mobil Drive Clean (min) - isn't this the rebadged Honda oil?
Pennzoil Purebase (min)
Quaker State (Syn)
Quaker State Peak Perf (min)
Castrol Syntec (syn)
Valvoline (min)
Pennzoil Synthetic (syn)
Mobil1 SuperSyn (syn)

The following ASTM tests were run:
Thin-film Oxygen Uptake ( D-4742)
High Temp/High Shear ( D-4683)
NOACK Volatility ( D-5900)
Pout Point (D-97)
Total Base Number (D-2896)
Cold Cranking Simulator D-5293)
4-Ball Wear (D-4172)
************************************************** *******
Test 1: Thin Film Oxygen Uptake:
Measures the oxidation stability of an oil.
The induction time (break point) in minutes is measured. The test uses standard amounts of fuel dilution, soluble metals, and water to offer a real-world applicability.

Results for this test(all units in minutes):
Amsoil: >500 (no break)
Mobil1: 397
Pennzoil Purebase: 242
Castrol Syntec: 221
Valvoline: 219
Vavoline SynPower: 211
Mobil Drive Clean: 209
Quaker State Peak Performance: 192
Pennzoil Synthetic: 159
Quaker State Synthetic: 159
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 132

Test 2: High Temperature/High Shear (HT/HS)
Measures a lube's performance under severe heat and shear (mechanical stress) as would be found in the journal bearings under heavy load. The units displayed are viscosity based, using the centipose unit (cP). The minimum spec for a 30w is 2.9 cP.

Results for this test (all units in cP):
Amsoil: 3.51
Quaker State Peak Performance: 3.37
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 3.35
Vavoline SynPower: 3.30
Mobil1: 3.30
Valvoline: 3.30
Mobil Drive Clean: 3.28
Pennzoil Purebase: 3.16
Quaker State Synthetic: 3.15
Pennzoil Synthetic: 3.14
Castrol Syntec: 3.13

Test 3: NOACK Volatility.
Measures the evaporative loss of lubricants in high temperature conditions. The higher the number, the thicker the lubricant will become. API SL and GF-3 specs allow for a 15% evaporation limit. In this test, obviously, lower is better. Syns almost always have an advantage due to their monomolecularity.

Results for this test (% weight loss):
Amsoil: 4.86
Vavoline SynPower: 7.03
Castrol Syntec: 7.77
Quaker State Synthetic: 7.80
Pennzoil Synthetic: 8.15
Mobil1: 8.92
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 8.93
Quaker State Peak Performance: 10.63
Mobil Drive Clean: 10.83
Pennzoil Purebase: 10.93
Valvoline: 12.18

Test 4: Pour Point
This test reveals the lowest temperature at which a lubricant will flow when cooled under test conditions. The lower, the better the product will perform in getting from the oil pan to the upper oil galleys, and in providing oil pressure quickly. Synoils generally are the best, because they are free of wax crystals, but today's mineral oils are better refined to remove wax impurities, and use advanced pour point depressant additives to help offset the synoils' intrinsically better properties.

Results for this test (all units in degrees Centigrade):
Amsoil: -48
Mobil1: -46
Vavoline SynPower: -46
Castrol Syntec: -43
Pennzoil Synthetic: -40
Quaker State Synthetic: -40
Pennzoil Purebase: -37
Valvoline: -37
Mobil Drive Clean: -37
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: -37
Quaker State Peak Performance: -34

Test 5: Total Base Number (TBN)
TBN displays the lubricant's reserve alkalinity, and is, of course, the opposite of TAN (total acid number). A high TBN will help resist the formation of acids from sulfur and other sources. It is also a good indicator of reserve resistance to oxidation. The higher the number, the superior ability to suspend contaminants and the greater the ability to provide long-drain intervals
Results for this test (all units in mg KOH/g):
Amsoil: 12.34
Vavoline SynPower: 11.38
Castrol Syntec: 10.39
Pennzoil Synthetic: 9.73
Mobil1: 8.57
Valvoline: 7.88
Quaker State Synthetic: 7.82
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 7.74
Mobil Drive Clean: 7.71
Quaker State Peak Performance: 7.55
Pennzoil Purebase: 7.40

RR's comments: I was very impressed with all the oils, as the mineral oils have significantly improved, consistent with previous comments about how mineral oils are closing in, and that the GF-3 spec has resulted in very good performing products. Mobil1's showing is the best i have seen for that product, which usually was in the 5-6 range previously. It certainly also supports my previous comments that the 3K oil change "necessity" is out of place with current technology. Like an enema for a dead man, while it may not help to do a 3K change, it wouldn't hurt I guess.

Test 6: Cold Crank Sumulator
This one determines the apparent viscosity of the oils at low temperatures and high shear rates, simulating the dreaded cold start. It has direct applicability to engine cranking, the lower the number the better in terms of stress on the battery, starter, etc. A 10w is tested at -25degF and must show a vis <7000 cP to pass.

Results for this test (all units cP at -25degC):
Pennzoil Synthetic: 3538
Amsoil: 3590
Mobil1: 3967
Quaker State Synthetic: 4142
Vavoline SynPower: 4541
Quaker State Peak Performance: 4620
Castrol Syntec: 4783
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 5804
Pennzoil Purebase: 5936
Mobil Drive Clean: 6448
Valvoline: 6458

RR Comments: If you live and drive your car in very cold climates, the advantage of the synoils is obvious. Keep in mind that the NOACK performance figures here as well, as this tests hows the performance of fresh oil - after a few thousand miles, the oils with higher volatility will likely have thickened, unless there has been high dilution from fuel, such as can occur if excessive startup idling warmups are employed.


Test 7: Four Ball Wear
This one is a good indicator of the wear protection of a lubricant, although in the real-world it is should be factored in with the TBN of the oil. Three metal balls are clamped together, and a rotating 4th one is pressed against them in sliding contact. A scar is produced, since at some point the film strength (resistance to being squeezed out) of the oil will be exceeded. The scar is then measured, and the smaller the average wear scar, the better. This test is affected by both the base stock of the oil, and its additive package.

Results for this test (all units in inches):
Amsoil: 0.40
Castrol Syntec: 0.45
Vavoline SynPower: 0.55
Quaker State Synthetic: 0.55
Mobil Drive Clean: 0.55
Pennzoil Synthetic: 0.60
Mobil1: 0.60
Valvoline: 0.60
Castrol GTX Drive Hard: 0.60
Quaker State Peak Performance: 0.60
Pennzoil Purebase: 0.65


____________________________

As you can see, if you want the best, get the best. Get Amsoil. If you buy it by the 2.5 gallon jug, you will spend about the same as oil at your local big box. If you do NOT run Amsoil, any of the above synthetics will work just fine.

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Old 06-14-2012, 04:31 PM   #62
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Great info. Tells me what I suspected all along, use a premium brand synthetic oil of your choice and your all set : D

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Old 06-14-2012, 04:33 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by pkmcd99 View Post
Great info. Tells me what I suspected all along, use a premium brand synthetic oil of your choice and your all set : D
Bingo. Arguing back and forth about which is the best is pointless. All tests conclude Amsoil is indeed the best. The rest are still excellent. Now, we come to the laws of economics.

Royal Purple is harder to find, and more expensive than Valvoline Syn. Law of economics states:

If Product A costs LESS than Product B, AND if Product A outperforms Product B, product B is "crap." Will your Jeep explode with Royal Purple? Probably not. However, there are COUNTLESS reports of ticking lifters, etc etc from RP users, and that's enough for me to use other, proven, easy to get oils.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:05 PM   #64
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NFRs,

I have seen posts of oil this and oil that since the net was invented. This is by far the most informative and useful thread available. No subjective or emotional ravings. Actual qulitative analysis with explanation of the tests, lists of the ASTM designations, results and a narrative.

EXCELLENT JOB!!!!!!! I wish some of the consultants I deal with were as thorough in their design reports.

I love science. May the F = mA be with you, always.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #65
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Mobil 1 is my choice. Have been using it for years in my corvettes.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by enjerhoo View Post
NFRs,

I have seen posts of oil this and oil that since the net was invented. This is by far the most informative and useful thread available. No subjective or emotional ravings. Actual qulitative analysis with explanation of the tests, lists of the ASTM designations, results and a narrative.

EXCELLENT JOB!!!!!!! I wish some of the consultants I deal with were as thorough in their design reports.

I love science. May the F = mA be with you, always.
No problem. I just know that many people get "emotionally attached" to their oil, so I've been harping on about this subject on multiple forums for a LONG time. I've said many times that oil quality is NOT a matter of opinion, but a matter of facts. I am glad to see you recognize that. Hopefully the guys here got what they need.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:36 PM   #67
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Mobil 1 is my choice. Have been using it for years in my corvettes.
I am pretty sure Mobil1 is stock on Corvettes.

* Edit, yup, I was right. All AMG Benzes, Aston Martins, Bentleys, Porsches, Nissan GTRs, Lexus LFA, Mclaren MP4-12C, Corvette, and a heap of other vehicles all use Mobil1 straight from the factory.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...?pg=1#Mercedes
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:37 PM   #68
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2012 JKU RUBICON owner.. doing my first oil change shortly.. Thanks for the very informative responses.. Im going to Go with AMSOIL.. I used to run AMSOIL products in my two stroke ATV's and Motorcycles.. high quality product very happy with the results. Wondering which one to get.. is there different 5w-30 lines of AMSOIL? And are you guys who use it also using AMSOIL filters? Part #'s would be great and the best places on the net to buy them.. Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:38 PM   #69
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Also.. Does the AMSOIL product meet and or exceed Chryslers recommendations?
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:54 PM   #70
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Also.. Does the AMSOIL product meet and or exceed Chryslers recommendations?
I don't know about Chryslers recommendations, but I know it is the ONLY oil approved by Honda to be a replacement for their own fluids. Don't worry about meeting their recommendations. Amsoil is the best there is, so if it DOESN'T meet their recommendations, then you are SOL, since there is nothing better.

You can use the OE line, which is basically factory spec oil $6 and change a quart
http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=OEFQT-EA

or you can run their best oil, the SAE Signature Series, which is $10 a quart.
http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=ASLQT-EA

If you buy larger quantities, the price will drop. I recommend the 2.5 gallon jugs.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:55 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
2012 JKU RUBICON owner.. doing my first oil change shortly.. Thanks for the very informative responses.. Im going to Go with AMSOIL.. I used to run AMSOIL products in my two stroke ATV's and Motorcycles.. high quality product very happy with the results. Wondering which one to get.. is there different 5w-30 lines of AMSOIL? And are you guys who use it also using AMSOIL filters? Part #'s would be great and the best places on the net to buy them.. Thanks in advance.
They have a part finder on their site. Just input your Jeep's info and it will spit out every part number/link you need.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:59 PM   #72
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Well, gotta eat my recommendation. I guess they no longer produce the 2.5 gallon jugs. Some of them have the gallon containers, but not all. Oh well.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:53 AM   #73
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Ok so I finally circumbed to trying Amsoil, after using RP since 2006 in my H2 and most recently in my JK. Keeping this brief, my valve chatter decreased significantly with the Amsoil.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:08 AM   #74
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I use NAPA full synthetic. Its made by Valvoline. Every winter, i think February, it goes on sale for just a little more/quart than conventional oil. I buy several cases then and use it all year in both vehicles.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:56 AM   #75
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I used to use Mobile 1 but I can get Amsoil cheaper.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:08 AM   #76
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Interesting.

Had not heard that opinion of RP before. Are you running any flat tappet cam style motors or strictly new roller cam/lifter/chain systems?

What was your negative experience? I'm currently running RP in my 68 mustang 390 without problems.
Royal Purple vs AMSOIL

Quote:
Royal Purple Info


As you may know, Royal Purple is well known in racing circles. The chemistry they use is something AMSOIL, Inc. chooses not to use in their oil formulations. One of Amsoil's big selling points is extended drain intervals, such as our 25,000 mile and 35,000 mile oil change intervals. Extended drain intervals is just one example of how Amsoil and Royal Purple engine oil formulations differ.

-Royal Purple recommends following the manufacturer’s maintenance intervals (found in the owners manual) while the vehicle is under factory warranty. In clean engines that are no longer under warranty, oil change intervals may be extended up to every 12,000 miles or annually, whichever comes first.

-Amsoil guarantees their Signature Series Oil in normal service – up to 35,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first in vehicles that are currently under factory warranty as well as vehicles that are no longer under warranty.

Other comparative examples of how Royal Purple and Amsoil engine oils differ are how well the oils perform regarding engine wear protection, and the ability of the engine oil to combat high temperatures.

ASTM testing of Royal Purple involved their 20W50 Racing oil versus our AMSOIL Premium Protection Motor Oil 20W50 ARO. The test included 4 ball wear tests with different parameters, a spectrographic baseline, FTIR scan and volatility tests. The Royal Purple showed a significantly high volatility rate with a11.2% boil off rate. This compares to the AMSOIL ARO with only a 6.5% volatility rating. Wear scars were also smaller with the ARO. For example the AMSOIL ARO left a .40mm scar and the Royal Purple oil left a 1.3mm scar. The lower the scar damage number the better the wear scar protection! There was also a surprising difference in the viscosity index. The Royal Purple has a VI of 129 versus 172 for the ARO. The higher the VI, the better the viscosity stays in place at high temperatures.

Note: This information was provided by AMSOIL, Inc. Tech Department. An independent lab tested the Royal Purple 20W-50 racing oil and the AMSOIL 20W-50 synthetic oil. The results are posted above.
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Old 06-16-2012, 05:25 AM   #77
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This thread reminds me of the energizer commercials, keeps going and going...
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Old 06-17-2012, 04:03 PM   #78
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Does it matter that Amsoil Signature Series SYN isn't API Certified? Getting ready to order a few cases.. wondering if this could ever bee a warranty issue? Any Thoughts? I also did some research on Oil filters seems that WIX is a TOP performer in all categories, plus its American Made..
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by 2012unlimruby17 View Post
Does it matter that Amsoil Signature Series SYN isn't API Certified? Getting ready to order a few cases.. wondering if this could ever bee a warranty issue? Any Thoughts? I also did some research on Oil filters seems that WIX is a TOP performer in all categories, plus its American Made..
Read my posts on the previous page. They would NEVER be able to pin a warranty issue on your oil, especially Amsoil. MAYBE, if you used extra virgin olive oil, they may have a case, but otherwise, no chance.
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:19 PM   #80
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Does it matter that Amsoil Signature Series SYN isn't API Certified? Getting ready to order a few cases.. wondering if this could ever bee a warranty issue? Any Thoughts? I also did some research on Oil filters seems that WIX is a TOP performer in all categories, plus its American Made..
All that matters is that it meets Chrysler Specs, and it does:

Quote:
APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil is excellent for use in all types of gasoline-fueled vehicles. It is recommended for all domestic and foreign vehicles requiring any of the listed performance specifications:

5W-20 (ALM): API SN (Resource Conserving), SM…; ILSAC GF-5, GF-4…; ACEA A5/B5, A1/B1; GM 6094M; Ford WSS-M2C945-A, WSS-M2C930-A; Chrysler MS-6395
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:29 PM   #81
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Great thanks for the info guys, really appreciate it. I just noticed it in the manual, I Knew it met the Chrysler MS-6395 requirements , but wasn't sure if it needs to meet both MS-6395 & API... Or one or both! I just want to educate myself on these points, I'm curious! I have done some reading on API certs.. What is the difference between the two? Or what is the correlation between the two? Thanks again!!
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:46 PM   #82
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I am sure the OE & XL series are API certified.. Just the signature series is without. I am looking at the signature series. What series is everyone using?
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Old 06-17-2012, 09:20 PM   #83
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I am sure the OE & XL series are API certified.. Just the signature series is without. I am looking at the signature series. What series is everyone using?
I just went with the OE because I don't put on many miles and usually change at 6 months regardless of mileage. But I'm thinking next change I might go with the XL and up it to once a year change. I only put on about 7000 miles a year.

The Signature is the top of the 3 so not sure why it wouldn't be API certified as well. I don't really look into that stuff much as I know the oil is top shelf so I don't really worry about the cert/ratings.
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Old 06-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #84
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I use synthetic Napa Oil and filter..
Ditto on the oil.
I run a napa gold filter aka Wix or Purolator.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:42 AM   #85
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Oil

Hi there!

I'm using Castrol EDGE Professional, C3 0W-30 for my Jeep with the CRD engine.

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Old 06-19-2012, 02:02 PM   #86
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For those of you who use Amsoil, where do you get it? There are ZERO stores within 50 miles of me that carry it. Do you order it online? If so, how much do you buy at a time?
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:17 PM   #87
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For those of you who use Amsoil, where do you get it? There are ZERO stores within 50 miles of me that carry it. Do you order it online? If so, how much do you buy at a time?
Online. I'd buy a case at a time (12). Good for 2 oil changes. You are correct, I buy directly from Amsoil online. If you have more than one vehicle, I'd become a "preferred customer." It's a $20 annual fee, and you get $15 percent off all purchases. Could pay for itself in one order.

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/pref.aspxv
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Old 06-19-2012, 02:20 PM   #88
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Check this thread and polling for more info:
Lets talk about Engine Oil for Jeeps
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:25 PM   #89
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I'm new here and new Jeep owner. I have always used Mobil 1 oil. My 1999 Chevy S-10 pickup has 306400 miles on it on Mobile 1 since it was new and still uses no oil between oil changes. 3 starter, 2 alternators, 9 belts same motor. That's all the I have to say on Mobile 1 oil
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #90
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For those of you who use Amsoil, where do you get it? There are ZERO stores within 50 miles of me that carry it. Do you order it online? If so, how much do you buy at a time?

I got it at NAPA. They had it there even though it didn't come up on the Amsoil website.

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