I've been reading up on wheeling a bit, and I'm going to go try some simple beginner stuff this weekend with a friend of mine (also has never gone). I've got the recovery gear now, and have watched a ton of videos regarding their proper uses.
My question now is that I see most folks with auto trans wheeling these days. I know there are some special things about 4wd with the manual transmission, and I'd like to know a little more about that. For example, when in 4L, it'll start in any gear without the clutch pressed? Could you explain relevant applications for this? Also, is there anything else I should know before I give it a try (specific to the manual trans)?
Appreciate any advice that you're willing to give,
GRS
Once you reach your destination. Play around with the transition from 4hi to 4lo. You'll feel the difference. Try not to change gears in 4lo... you can start from 2nd or 3rd, but when climbing, I suggest 1st gear and keep your left foot off the clutch.
So I won't stall if I'm in 4L? Is that right? I think that's one of the main things I'm confused about... Driven manuals all my life, and not using the clutch is, odd to say the least.
Those guys in auto-transmissions aren't "wheeling"! All they do is slap it into 4Lo, click the cruise control button and hill-descent button, put their feet on the dash and ask someone to wake them up when they get to the end of the trail! You need a stickshift to do REAL wheeling!
I've never needed the "start in gear" feature. The only way I can imagine anyone really needing it is if you stall in deep water - because in deepish water you never want to hit the clutch.. I've tried/testing starting in gear in different shituations and all it ever did was kill my battery..
Driving a stick does take some skill once you start going up long/steep hills, going over rocks, or worse, going over rocks on long steep hills. I found that getting a 4:10 transfercase (like in a Rubicon) and re-gearing to 4.88s made a huge difference. Much less stalling because you can go way slower without having the burn up the clutch..
@GRSJeeper ... you can still stall in 4lo. Happened to me during a climb and it ain't pretty. On leveled ground, 4lo still has momentum to propel the jeep so you won't stall.
Starting in first gear with the clutch engaged is VERY useful after you have stalled out on a steep upward slope when you are using the emergency brake to keep you from rolling backwards over a cliff. Ask me how I know.
You guys use your ebrake to keep from rolling backwards in that situation? Maybe it's because my 4Runner is geared so low (217:1, at the lowest), but I just use the foot brake. Hit the key, slowly let off the brake, and away you go.
I haven't wheeled the jeep yet, but it's an auto, anyway.
Ok, so the trans works like normal in that I still need to use the clutch. Sounds like I have some things to get used to. I'm more than familiar with using the ebrake and catching the gear when on an incline. My other cars mixed with SF and Seattle taught me that quite well.
I believe I read in the manual that the hill climb assist isn't active in 4wd? That was something that surprised me (happily btw) about the manual. Is that correct?
Any other suggestions guys? Scenarios that I should be aware of (keep in mind I'm sticking to VERY beginner stuff)?
Ok, so the trans works like normal in that I still need to use the clutch. Sounds like I have some things to get used to. I'm more than familiar with using the ebrake and catching the gear when on an incline.
Hello GRS; I'm just seeing this thread for the first time and I'm not sure you understood the answers you got to your original question. i.e., no, you don't need to use your clutch to start the Jeep in 4Lo. Literally just put it in gear, turn the key and the Jeep springs to life and starts chugging along. It is an intentional feature designed into the JK to bypass the clutch switch in 4Lo, which normally requires the clutch to be depressed before the ignition even works. But in 4Lo they figure you might want to start moving without depressing the clutch. This is especially desired if you stall the Jeep in a river crossing that's up over your transmission; you'll want to restart without depressing the clutch and introducing some water into something (not sure whether it's the clutch hydraulics or the transmission itself.) But either way, don't go depressing the clutch in the middle of the river.
If you understood that, GRS, forgive me for repeating. Just seemed like with all the crosstalk in this thread about hill-holding, only a couple people touched on the water-restrictions on your clutch, and you didn't acknowledge that in your reply that I saw.
Ive so far only found starting in 4lo without the clutch useful when letting my kids drive the jeep. They are 3 and 6 so way too short toreach the pedals.
Put it in lo, select 4th (cos its way too slow otherwise) i get in the passenger seat and hit the key. They get to trundle around the farm at walking pace while steering, and if they are heading for something solid, or have had enough i knock it out of gear and pull the handbrake.
They love it, i think its good to give them a go, and they now seem to love the jeep as much as i do win win
I'm about 6months in on my very first jeep and I have a manual like you.
I have taken my Willys on a ATV trail several times since I've picked him up. After rocky but manageable Portions it splits into 3 parts. One is the same as the first portion, some rocks but mostly just dirt, tree limbs, and some muddy tracks. The second goes thru a field which has larger rocks in the way, the third is an utter shit show. Narrow trail, deep mud, huge dips followed by big rocks....this is where I got stuck. On each trail I was able to roll slow in 4hi and first/second gear. I would work the clutch if needed when crawling over the big rocks. When I got stuck is when I pulled into 4low.
Here I am, middle of nowhere Maine, no recovery gear, wearing sandals, out past where any tow truck could come and save me, and I was in mud past the center cap on the wheels. Engaged 4low, started rocking it back and forward (real fun in a manual) and was able to get enough momentum to reverse out of that quagmire. Had to run the trail in reverse for half mile till I had enough room to turn around. So all the crap I drove thru till I got to the point I got hung up...I got to drive thru in reverse.
Long story short, to address the OP's question, the manual is very good for the off-roading you plan on. Use 4hi till you get into trouble, then use 4low. Unless you truly "bit off more than you can chew" you'll get out with patience and perseverance.
Starting with the tranny in gear is another option. Not like this will be the norm so the chop-stick post is right on!
Not all stopping places on a trail will allow room for getting up & running especially when the following Jeeper parks too close to your rear on an incline. The gearing along with the starter will walk your Jeep away (usually upward) from the obstacle behind you without the use of the clutch. Practice the move before using it; it is simple.
Be prepared to steer and NOT look down at the steering wheel as you crank the ignition over. Normally the Jeep will start right up and even commence the crawl right over the whatever issue is in front of you, like a pile of rocks.
I still say 4lo and go. Even with low gears I have never used 4hi on the trail seems like too much stress to me. Plus you have to keep speed so you don't stall, just my opinion. Never understood wheeling in 4hi
4Hi is good for when the trail is flat/fire-road.. Then you can stay in 1st or 2nd.. if you keep it in 4LO then you're shifting every 10 seconds.. Of course as soon as i think the trial is going to be flat/easy for a while and I go into 4Hi we always come around a curve to a bunch of rocks and then i have to go right back into LO .. Never fails..
Probably like many here that gave theire opinion, I have been wheeling from about twenty plus years. All those years with amnual transmission, with the same jeep and since last year with a new to me TJL.
Always in 4L, all day long and have always change speed as if I was in 2wd or in 4H. Going up hill in 4 low is just the same to me as going up hill in 2wd. If you have enough momentum to shift gear, just do it.
If you get stuck going up. Use the brake, resart and if not able to go foward again, use reverse gear, and the compression do drive you down, compression will make it possible the direct you self with stearing on the way down, braking to much will not make it possible to to the same.
Ome thing that manual can give you that auto will not be as good at, is compression and controle driving on steep incline. Even with a 4:1 t-case and 4:10 gear. Cpmression in manual will be better at that on long and steep incline. But I mean long and steep, like 1/4 -1/2 miles and longer.
As for you first runs, I really doubt that you will go on crazy stuff. So just go out and experiment.
Use 4h if you realized that you are out of gear and youre engin is reving up all the time in 5 or 6 gear depending of your trany.
An other graet thing aboit manual, it will not over heat, and can bring you back even if empty.
I can't count the number of times I've stalled my JK on obstacles. The 4.56 axle gears just aren't enough to compensate for the 2.72:1 transfer case when you're on a steep rock or ledge.
Fortunately the 4 speed Atlas showed up yesterday.
I've had to stop midway up a steep incline while wheeling in my JKU with stuck shift because of some DA ahead of me not clearing the break over. I tried starting in gear and it crawled me forward but never seemed to get enough fuel to actually turn the engine over. I guess I could have rode the starter to the top, but didn't want to strain it. I ended up just using the handbrake and let the clutch out just enough to pull then dropped the handbrake and pushed on the gas. Maybe not the best health wise for the trail but I just let it spin a little in 4lo until it grabbed and climbed right up. That was probably on a slope between 45 and 60 degrees...
This is where wheeling with a manual becomes difficult. Three pedals but only 2 feet. I installed a TF hand throttle which allows me to set my rpm's and not have to worry about the skinny pedal. An automatic with good low range torque makes things easier but it's not as satisfying as doing a difficult obstacle with a manual. A buddy and I rigged one up for his JK damn electronics are a PITA!
This is where wheeling with a manual becomes difficult. Three pedals but only 2 feet. I installed a TF hand throttle which allows me to set my rpm's and not have to worry about the skinny pedal. An automatic with good low range torque makes things easier but it's not as satisfying as doing a difficult obstacle with a manual. A buddy and I rigged one up for his JK damn electronics are a PITA!
If you have to justify your lvl of wheeling by what tranny you are using then you need to get off the bunny slops and do things that require your full concentration on the obstacle and pedal work is something you just do naturally.
There is a nice jeep club in Maine, do not remeber the name as of now, but I would try to get en touch with them. You could learn a lot from those guys, and you do not have to be hard core.
From what I know, they are the ones behind the maines mountains jeep jamboree. And they are all over the state.
35s, 3.73 gears, limited slip. Must have stalled 9-10 times on this obstacle. Still worth it. Especially after you regear!! Went to 4.88.. Half the issues.
35s, 3.73 gears, limited slip. Must have stalled 9-10 times on this obstacle. Still worth it. Especially after you regear!! Went to 4.88.. Half the issues.
Nope, it "works" in any gear in 4Lo, as far as there's no interference from the clutch kill switch to keep you from doing it. Whether you'd have enough torque in 6th gear to actually get rolling before the motor stalled I don't know. Never tried in anything but first or second.
I demo the feature every single time I take a noob car guy out on the trails with me. Everybody thinks it's cool. Fortunately, I've never come close to stalling on a river crossing (I suppose you'd have to hit a big rock underwater that you didn't see), so I've only used it for entertainment purposes. I have 30 years of manual hill-start experience so whenever I stall in a steep rock climb, I just naturally use the clutch. I feel like that gives more precise control over critical power delivery than just twisting the key and starting to move.
All of my jeeps have been manuals. As others have mentioned low gearing is your friend.
If I get stuck on a hill this is what I do: Hold the brake with one foot while slowly letting out the clutch with the other. Once you feel the jeep start to nudge, you stop and hold that clutch position (usually about half way out) then transition your other foot from the brake to the gas. Apply a little pressure on the gas then slowly let the clutch the rest of the way out. Yes your are riding the clutch for a second to make this work but with some practice you can make everything happen pretty quickly. It also does not require revving the engine which helps maintain clutch life.
My last jeep had 4.88s w/4:1 t-case and it was super easy with a manual but I can also wheel may current jeep with 4.10s and 2.72 t-case smoothly as well. It just takes practice.
Drive the hills in downtown Seattle and you'll figure out heal to toe real fast
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