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Old 07-14-2011, 08:37 AM   #1
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Which axle ratio to order on 2012 Rubicon?

Plan on upgrading to a 2012 Rubicon and noticed that the 4.10 axle is now an option with the 3.73 being the standard.

I drive mine on the road most of the time and the few trips off road were easliy handled by the stock Rubicon. I would be leaving the stock wheels/tires and suspension on the Jeep.

With the new 5 spd auto having such a low first gear - 3.59:1 vs the 4spd autos 2.84:1 is the 4.10 rear axle really needed?

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:12 AM   #2
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If you never plan on going to bigger tires, then probably not. But a lot of people never plan too modify and get the bug later. Not to mention 4.10 will probably be a good resale factor. Used Jeeps tend to be wheeled more. If you every plan to tow the 4.10 are really a must also and even if you have to start in 2nd, 4.10 will keep you in 6th or o/d at higher speed when you hit the hills.

I have never heard one person complain their gears is too high a ratio, but their are a lot that buy a Jeep with a smaller ratio that wish they had a higher one.

Too be honest, the Rubicon is not a good value as stated in JP magazine and if you don't need the 4:10 transfer case, electronic disconnects, and 4.10 gears, another model is an extremely better value. If you never plan on using these features, you are paying a lot for a sticker. Resale value is also a myth of sorts. Of course a 36K jeep is going to resale for more then a 26K but when the numbers are actually brought to the board each model holds it value very well to it's own original price

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Old 07-14-2011, 09:15 AM   #3
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I'd go with the 4.10 rear and not give it a second thought. JMO
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:56 AM   #4
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This is a very useful tool in helping you make your decision:

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:16 AM   #5
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Screw the 3.73ís and go for the 4.10ís. If youíre getting the Rubi then most likely youíll be going off road in it and the lower the gears the better, to a point of course. Going up hills and head winds is yet another reason. 3.73ís in a Rubicon, my god, whatís the world coming too?
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:21 AM   #6
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4.10. More Gear = More Gooder.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:31 AM   #7
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Up Hill Bill - Thanks for the link, that is a great tool!

I really thought there would be a greater difference in the rpm at 70mph but looks like 2,271 in fifth with the 3.73 vs 2,497 in fifth with the 4.10.

Looks like I will be going with the 4.10 gears.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:42 AM   #8
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Up Hill Bill - Thanks for the link, that is a great tool!

I really thought there would be a greater difference in the rpm at 70mph but looks like 2,271 in fifth with the 3.73 vs 2,497 in fifth with the 4.10.

Looks like I will be going with the 4.10 gears.
Yep, only about a 10% difference through the gears. It's enlightening to use that calculator to compare the new NAG-1 auto tranny with the previous, 42RLE (I think). Manual and new tranny gearing are reasonably similar. But, if your comparing autos, the new one has MUCH lower gearing. 3.73's w/ new trans will be about like 5.13's w/ old. 4.10's will be about like 5.88's. IF you're thinking of going up in tire size, 4.10 & new trans. should be sweet. If you're keeping stock 32" tires, you'll have a great crawler, but might suffer some on the road, esp. in MPG... but not necessarily.

I decided to trust the Jeep engineers and my own calcs and knowledge of how I will use my Jeep (I've driven Jeeps since 1968) to make my own decision and wear it proudly... Don't let the "mine's bigger than yours" crowd push you into something... It's YOUR Jeep!
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:44 AM   #9
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Just as an FYI...you said "is the 4.10 rear axle really needed?" Actually the 4.10 gears are both in the front AND the rear axle.

Its odd how 3.73 gears are standard, with an option of 4.10s...4.10s used to be factory for all rubis. Good luck with the new jeep
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Old 07-14-2011, 11:09 AM   #10
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I think the new 5sp auto will be a great improvement on the 42rle, but I wonder if they'll still use the worthless A/C condenser cooling system, they have now ??--and

Whats gonna happen when you go to bigger tires and "cruise freeway" in O/D, will the SLIGHT increase in HP/Torqueat 2000 rpm, keep the tranny from "hunting" even with 4.10s--???

We're gonna have to wait and see I guess !!

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Old 07-14-2011, 01:12 PM   #11
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Yep, only about a 10% difference through the gears. It's enlightening to use that calculator to compare the new NAG-1 auto tranny with the previous, 42RLE (I think). Manual and new tranny gearing are reasonably similar. But, if your comparing autos, the new one has MUCH lower gearing. 3.73's w/ new trans will be about like 5.13's w/ old. 4.10's will be about like 5.88's. IF you're thinking of going up in tire size, 4.10 & new trans. should be sweet. If you're keeping stock 32" tires, you'll have a great crawler, but might suffer some on the road, esp. in MPG... but not necessarily.

I decided to trust the Jeep engineers and my own calcs and knowledge of how I will use my Jeep (I've driven Jeeps since 1968) to make my own decision and wear it proudly... Don't let the "mine's bigger than yours" crowd push you into something... It's YOUR Jeep!
I'm having difficulties using the 'Gear Ratio Calculator.' Could you please tell me which code to choose for Step 1.

Thanks,

Ayman
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Old 07-14-2011, 03:48 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Stallion289TX View Post
I'm having difficulties using the 'Gear Ratio Calculator.' Could you please tell me which code to choose for Step 1.

Thanks,

Ayman
Enter the Dodge NAG-1 for tranny
Enter 1 for High Range
Enter 4 for Low Range for Rubi. 2.72 for all others.
Leave 3rd Range blank
Ignore Underdrive
Enter Gear Range you want to use for calculations
Click radio button for Metric
Change tire size to 255/75/17 for stock, or whatever you want to test.
Click <Calculate>

Repeat for right hand column if desired for comparison.

Sorry I took so long to answer.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post


This is a very useful tool in helping you make your decision:

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html
I would use this as a guide only. It does not take into affect the lift of your jeep, how much it weighs, and the terrian that you are drving on for the amount of RPMs your engine will be turning. It also depends on the amount of power the engine has as well. More power usually equals less RPM's.
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Old 07-14-2011, 08:36 PM   #14
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I would use this as a guide only. It does not take into affect the lift of your jeep, how much it weighs, and the terrian that you are drving on for the amount of RPMs your engine will be turning. It also depends on the amount of power the engine has as well. More power usually equals less RPM's.
I agree.

The only real world comparison for the new drive train (Pentastar + NAG-1/W5A580 tranny) is the 2011 Grand Cherokee.

It weighs about 400 lbs. more than Wrangler (model dependent.) It is much more aerodynamic (not a brick.) Not really a hard core off-roader/crawler. But, it's all we have to compare, for a few weeks more at least.

the GC runs (hold on.... wait for it.... ) 3.06 axles! And, it's getting rave reviews. Go figure.

p.s. Your avatar is almost as pretty as a Wrangler!
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Old 07-14-2011, 09:15 PM   #15
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I agree.

p.s. Your avatar is almost as pretty as a Wrangler!
No kidding, Stacy Keilbler is hoooottttt.
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:30 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
Enter the Dodge NAG-1 for tranny
Enter 1 for High Range
Enter 4 for Low Range for Rubi. 2.72 for all others.
Leave 3rd Range blank
Ignore Underdrive
Enter Gear Range you want to use for calculations
Click radio button for Metric
Change tire size to 255/75/17 for stock, or whatever you want to test.
Click <Calculate>

Repeat for right hand column if desired for comparison.

Sorry I took so long to answer.
Thanks alot for the instructions. I realize now what you meant by saying that the new transmission has lower gears compared to the previous 4-speed. I guess this is the reason in which engineers at Jeep offered the 3.73 on Rubicons but still made the 4.10 available.

I have a question for you. I plan to do 2" or 2.5" lift with 34s / 35s at the most in the future. Do you think the 3.73 will be ok with this upgrade? Is it going to suffer power or get penalized with are mpg vs. having the 4.10 instead. Also, will I be more capable off roading (mudding, crawling with the 4.10). Last, do gears (3.73 or 4.10) make difference when I'm in '4 Lo' mode. or only when I'm in 2 or 4 Hi.

Thanks,

Ayman
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Old 07-14-2011, 10:54 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Stallion289TX View Post
Thanks alot for the instructions. I realize now what you meant by saying that the new transmission has lower gears compared to the previous 4-speed. I guess this is the reason in which engineers at Jeep offered the 3.73 on Rubicons but still made the 4.10 available.

I have a question for you. I plan to do 2" or 2.5" lift with 34s / 35s at the most in the future. Do you think the 3.73 will be ok with this upgrade? Is it going to suffer power or get penalized with are mpg vs. having the 4.10 instead. Also, will I be more capable off roading (mudding, crawling with the 4.10). Last, do gears (3.73 or 4.10) make difference when I'm in '4 Lo' mode. or only when I'm in 2 or 4 Hi.

Thanks,

Ayman
Using the gear calculator, you'll find that 3.73s with the new auto with stock 32" tires is nearly identical to 4.10s with 35s. IMHO, 3.73s with the auto and 35s will be geared too high.

And, yes, axle differential gearing does make a difference in 4-hi and 4-lo. Here are some basics: HowStuffWorks "Four-wheel Drive Differential"

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Old 07-14-2011, 11:01 PM   #18
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You guys are all overthinking this.

Make all the analogies to the old set up you want, the 3.6 doesn't hit peak power until over 6000 RPMs. The numerically higher your ratio, the better off you'll be.

If you can get 4.10s, get them. If you're getting a Rubi without them, you're making a mistake. Just do it and stop obsessing.

Period.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:22 AM   #19
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If you can get 4.10s, get them. If you're getting a Rubi without them, you're making a mistake. Just do it and stop obsessing.

Period.
Yup.
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:25 AM   #20
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It might be useful to refer to the tire size/gearing chart for the 3.8 in conjunction with the gearing calculator. Look at the tire size you are interested in. Determine what the equivalent recommended gearing for your use and tire size in the RLE42 chart will be with the new tranny.

Notice it recommends DIFFERENT gearing for DIFFERENT intended use. You can't have both a dedicated rock crawler and a good daily driver.

It's YOUR Jeep! Don't look for a specific recommendation from me, it would be worthless to YOU, as are the others you are getting!

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Old 07-15-2011, 09:40 AM   #21
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Graphs/tables/indexs are great for initial studies, but

You also have to consider your PRIMARY USE OF THE JEEP-

My JKUR is notta DD and with my 5.38 gears it's a reborn dream, however--

With the new 3.6L v6/5spd auto-there's gonna be completely different results, but

If jeep uses the same cooling system for autos, (A/C condenser) and the final O/D ratio is close to the 3.8L auto-then

There's still gonna be trouble on freeway (O/D) travel with larger tires and AUTOMATIC USE--

Now this is all conjecture and we won't have any PROOF, untill the first guy tries a new one-wait and see, don't formulate any definate plans ---YET---

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Old 07-15-2011, 09:47 AM   #22
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Graphs/tables/indexs are great for initial studies, but

You also have to consider your PRIMARY USE OF THE JEEP-

My JKUR is notta DD and with my 5.38 gears it's a reborn dream, however--

With the new 3.6L v6/5spd auto-there's gonna be completely different results, but

If jeep uses the same cooling system for autos, (A/C condenser) and the final O/D ratio is close to the 3.8L auto-then

There's still gonna be trouble on freeway (O/D) travel with larger tires and AUTOMATIC USE--

Now this is all conjecture and we won't have any PROOF, untill the first guy tries a new one-wait and see, don't formulate any definate plans ---YET---

Smokemifyougotem

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Same thing said different way. I Agree with you.

But, I'm going to do the very best job of penciling it out that I can before I drop $40K on my Jeep! Get it wrong and you're re-gearing for $1,000 right out of the showroom! That's the risk of early ordering of a new drivetrain!
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Old 07-15-2011, 09:55 AM   #23
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Yea, probably so UHB, but


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Same thing said different way. I Agree with you.

But, I'm going to do the very best job of penciling it out that I can before I drop $40K on my Jeep! Get it wrong and you're re-gearing for $1,000 right out of the showroom! That's the risk of early ordering of a new drivetrain!
I think it's more important to choose your MODEL/auto/manual-interior trim and options, cause--

Your "USE HOBBIES" will probably change over the next couple years and that will determine your jeep lift/tire size/tranny use/ towing limits and capacities, so

In those catagories, the differential ratios are the easiest to change and have very little warranty infringement !!

To me Model and auto and options are the most important, cause they are the hardest to change--

Good luck

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Old 07-15-2011, 10:20 AM   #24
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Your "USE HOBBIES" will probably change over the next couple years and that will determine your jeep lift/tire size/tranny use/ towing limits and capacities, so
You're right on that! Nanny state California has come close to making setting foot, none the less wheels, off of paved roads verboten.

I used to have access to the 1,200 miles of logging roads on the land of the old Pacific Lumber Company whose land I am surrounded by. California regs. now requires that all log roads and skid trails be "decommissioned" (=removed) or "armored" with gravel. And, all public encroachments must be gated and locked. Just damn!

And, I'm not getting any younger, or more adventurous... been there... So my focus is more twisty, steep, country "paved" roads, snow, ranch roads.
Your mileage may very. That's why there are so many options/mods available for Jeeps. Take your own counsel and build yer own!
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:46 AM   #25
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Heh Heh, I don't want to make this a chat room, but here's some applicable info


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You're right on that! Nanny state California has come close to making setting foot, none the less wheels, off of paved roads verboten.

I used to have access to the 1,200 miles of logging roads on the land of the old Pacific Lumber Company whose land I am surrounded by. California regs. now requires that all log roads and skid trails be "decommissioned" (=removed) or "armored" with gravel. And, all public encroachments must be gated and locked. Just damn!

And, I'm not getting any younger, or more adventurous... been there... So my focus is more twisty, steep, country "paved" roads, snow, ranch roads.
Your mileage may very. That's why there are so many options/mods available for Jeeps. Take your own counsel and build yer own!
In the '70s, I had a tire shop in Paradise, Ca was president of jeep club and I was approached by the BLM/Sierra club and the state forrestry div, to help single out some existing trails in the Sierra ridges around Butte cty (for closure) and adjacent to hiwy 70--

BECAUSE to many 4x4 vehicles were ruining the environment, by "hot dogging" and mud sliding, just after snow melts-

So I did and now this is going on all over the country and jeepers bitch about every area closeure and restriction, now

Don't think that all this closure is just politics and landowner profit--this crap has been going on for over 40 years-

This is one, just one of the reasons I moved my JEEP to Nevada-they're still 20 years behind this situation, although I still spend most of my time in the Ca. Sierras, which are also being more closly monitored by the State-as evidenced by the road closure in this pic



Now I've been going behind this area, up to 8000 ft for over 40 years and this road closure has only happened in the last 3 years--

Thats because of state rescue/liability/BLM cost, because of snow driving "stuckees"--and I've been there, buit never had to call for helpdid I mention I HATE MUD ??

I'm afraid a lot of new off-roaders, without the proper equip/experience/assistance/plans and pre-notice to family-friends-etc, kinda like a flight plan--they get stuck and lost withou help-and there are bears in these areas-and thats another story-

Keepyerpowderdry

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Old 07-15-2011, 11:03 AM   #26
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Heh Heh, I don't want to make this a chat room, but here's some applicable info




In the '70s, I had a tire shop in Paradise, Ca was president of jeep club and I was approached by the BLM/Sierra club and the state forrestry div, to help single out some existing trails in the Sierra ridges around Butte cty (for closure) and adjacent to hiwy 70--

BECAUSE to many 4x4 vehicles were ruining the environment, by "hot dogging" and mud sliding, just after snow melts-

So I did and now this is going on all over the country and jeepers bitch about every area closeure and restriction, now

Don't think that all this closure is just politics and landowner profit--this crap has been going on for over 40 years-

This is one, just one of the reasons I moved my JEEP to Nevada-they're still 20 years behind this situation, although I still spend most of my time in the Ca. Sierras, which are also being more closly monitored by the State-as evidenced by the road closure in this pic



Now I've been going behind this area, up to 8000 ft for over 40 years and this road closure has only happened in the last 3 years--

Thats because of state rescue/liability/BLM cost, because of snow driving "stuckees"--and I've been there, buit never had to call for helpdid I mention I HATE MUD ??

I'm afraid a lot of new off-roaders, without the proper equip/experience/assistance/plans and pre-notice to family-friends-etc, kinda like a flight plan--they get stuck and lost withou help-and there are bears in these areas-and thats another story-

Keepyerpowderdry

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Old 07-15-2011, 11:11 AM   #27
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...I was approached by the BLM/Sierra club and the state forrestry div, to help single out some existing trails in the Sierra ridges around Butte cty (for closure) ...

So I did...

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Old 07-15-2011, 11:19 AM   #28
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NOPE-I've actually been disliked by many people-


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And I thought you were a good guy, oh well.
It comes with the territory !!----However !

I can be bribed--

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Old 07-15-2011, 12:31 PM   #29
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NOPE-I've actually been disliked by many people-

It comes with the territory !!----However !

I can be bribed--

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You could also be shot.

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Old 07-15-2011, 03:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
It might be useful to refer to the tire size/gearing chart for the 3.8 in conjunction with the gearing calculator. Look at the tire size you are interested in. Determine what the equivalent recommended gearing for your use and tire size in the RLE42 chart will be with the new tranny.

Notice it recommends DIFFERENT gearing for DIFFERENT intended use. You can't have both a dedicated rock crawler and a good daily driver.

It's YOUR Jeep! Don't look for a specific recommendation from me, it would be worthless to YOU, as are the others you are getting!

Attachment 58019
I want to thank all of you for your feedback and recommendations. After careful analysis, I have decided to proceed with the 3.73 gears. I visited the a dealship this morning and test drove a 2011 Sahara with similar modifications that I plan to have in the future (2" mopar lift with 325-60-18 tires). The Sahara only had 3.21 gears and I found the drive to be acceptable so I imagine the 3.73 to be even better especially with the new 5speed which has already lower gears. I'm little confused about tire sizes however. I through that 255-75-17, which is standard on Rubicons, equals 32s. I actually took a measuring tape (to see whether the lifted wrangler would fit my garage) and measured the Rubicon to find out that 255-75-17 is around 30 inches and not even close to 32. Suprisingly, the 325-60-18 tires which the dealer calls 34/35s measured only 32 inches with my measuring tape. Could someone please explain this - when I hear 32s does it mean 32 inches high (even the gear ratio calculator which allows you to enter the tire measurment is showing 32.06 for 255-75-17 but when I measured it, it was only 30 or a tick higher)

I also drove the 2011 grand cheroke with the new 3.6 and transmission and all what I can say is that it is amazing. The engine and 5speed Auto are powerful, responsive, smooth, and solid (drives like a Benz). I can't wait to have them on my Rubicon.

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