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Old 10-08-2012, 03:35 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJL2 View Post
As for the Rubi sway bar, make sure you get sway bar links long enough to handle the lift. I think the rule of thumb is (read what SilverSport wrote...I'm an idiot!)...I'd need to reread on that though. If the swaybar links are too short than your Rubi sway bar disco motor is going to see more stress...not a good thing. The links can as well. The poor man's technique - take your rear links and move them up front, get new links for the rear. That's what I did.

As far as bits and pieces go, getting an adjustable track bar to center your suspension is a good idea. If you look at your track bar, you can see it connects up top on one side and on the bottom at the other...so, if you make the distance between the top and bottom greater the bottom end is going to shift towards the top end. Think of Trig - imagine a right triangle where the track bar is the Hypotenuse and then take that same triangle and make the vertical leg (distance between top/bottom mounts) longer - either the horizontal leg gets shorter and the Hypotenuse stays the same (which means your suspension is off-center) or the Hypotenuse needs to get longer (your track bar). Different mounting brackets can achieve the same effect with the stipulation that the bracket must match the lift height or it won't do the job properly...it's therefore a less elegant solution. Also, sorry if I dorked up the spelling...not really my thing.

Control Arms and control arm brackets come into play as well, though you may or mar not feel the need to try and restore the stock geometry - people differ on this point. Caster, pinion angle, etc. can be affected when you lift - depending on how much you lift it may or may not bother you. However, since I have not messed about with this I'll bow out here.
Geez, it seems a bit overwhelming, trying to take all these things into consideration. I feel like at the end of this, the "$800 lift" is going to turn into a "$2000 lift."

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
Adjustable sway bar links are made to adjust for the amount of lift. For example, JKS Manufacturing makes adjustable ones for 0-6" of lift. You set them so the front sway bar is in the range of 5 to -5 degrees with 0 being perfectly horizontal. Then use the electronic swaybar disconnect like normal.
Okay, maybe this doesn't sound so bad...

Quote:
Originally Posted by engrgpr View Post
You don't have to have your Jeep sideways to max out your flex.

You've been a member for 2 years with 2000 posts and have only had a jeep for 5 months?

Not sure where you're trying to go with your post, but allow me to give you an explanation long enough for you to have time to eat and digest your popcorn.

See, when I see someone who's been a member of a vehicle enthusiast forum (and this goes for ANY type of vehicle...) for a particular amount of time and has owned a vehicle for a fraction of the time he/she has been a member, there are a few things that come to mind:

- This person is new to the forum-focused vehicle and is doing research

- This person has ordered a vehicle and is waiting for it to arrive, and is simply enthusiastic.

- This person simply just likes the forum focused vehicle and enjoys talking about them.

- This person started doing research on an existing model, and maybe a replacement model. In the case of the Wrangler, given the time frame, could it have been to decide whether to choose an existing 2011 model or the "updated" 2012 model with the new engine?

- This person joined the forum and just finds the people to be cool and enthusiastic about their rides, and he/she just enjoys the conversation.

Now, in MY case, I decided I wanted a Wrangler. I also figured when I joined the forum I'd probably have one sooner than later. Unfortunately for me, finances didn't allow my purchase as quickly as I would have liked. That was around the time when I joined the forum...but that's okay, because I didn't know shit about Wranglers and figured I'd do some HOMEWORK; yeah, some of us do that sort of thing prior to spending $30,000+.

...So I do my research and eventually stop participating until months later, where things are starting to look a little financially brighter. By this time, the 2011 year has rolled around and rumor has it the Wrangler's gonna get a new engine for 2012, being the praised 3.6L Pentastar. Now, all of a sudden, my decision just got that much harder...and then things fall apart for me again.

I didn't leave the forum again after falling apart, and was at the point of considering whether I was willing to give up a 2005 STi for a new Jeep, which I was NOT ready to do; it just wasn't gonna happen. To this day, it STILL wouldn't have happened. While I'd still be a member here and probably participate on a regular basis, there's no way in Hell I'd get rid of an STi for a Wrangler; sorry, everyone. Now, I'd most definitely add a Wrangler to my "stable," but to get rid of a high-octane adrenaline rush like an STi...no way, no how.

...And then this happened when an inattentive driver hit my wife and I from the rear at 55-60 mph into another car while we were in stopped traffic. FWIW, we weren't even stopped, we were idling at about 5 mph and about 30-40 feet back from the vehicle in front of us...





Yeah, ain't that pretty? The cop who arrived on the scene told me he was sure he had a fatality on his hands when he saw the car, and neither my wife, nor I, should have been walking around. He just didn't see how that was possible. To give you an idea of the magnitude of the hit, my seat-back was bent backwards and my wife's seat-back was cracked in half. The Mercury Milan (3800 lbs) that hit us pushed the trunk about two feet into the rear of the trunk area, all the way to where the gas cap was located.

He got $385 worth of tickets, and we got hospital bills and a $480/mo car note. The insurance company gave us $16,000 for the STi. Soon after the crash, my wife's car died and some of that $16,000 went towards her new car (2012 Forester) and some went towards my new Rubicon. At the time of the crash, we'd just finished a discussion about trading the STi for a Jeep and how there was no way I could do it, regardless how bad I wanted that Rubicon. 10 minutes later, it wasn't a decision I had to make. Who knew, right?

So, there ya have it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoWrangler View Post
If I may be so bold...

I think you have a decision making issue, more than a mod issue. After 2 years and 2,000 posts, if you can't make a decision without the input of the internet, you're probably doomed before you even get started.
You're right, it is a decision-making issue. It's a decision to do things the right way the first time and make sure I'm under full understanding what I'm getting myself into and whether the cost is worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport View Post
I couldn't disagree more. Everybody and their brother is hawking parts for Jeeps as if they are absolutely necessary. Not all lifts are created equal; some brands are known for sagging springs. Not all control arms are created equal and feature cheap bushings. And so on. With a forum like this, the OP can take notes and ask questions as to "what do I really need", "what works and what doesn't", etc. Eliminates the trial and error.

Don't know about you but I hate throwing good money after bad. Since I got back into Jeeps I have taken tons of notes from the members on here who are suspension knowledgeable. My research paid off when it came time to lift. One shot, one kill. Without the internet or this forum a lot of guesswork would have been involved.

Props to the OP for asking!
You hit the nail square on the head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhotoWrangler View Post
I dunno what you're rolling your eyes for, he's right on the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suicideking View Post
1. Warranty - Many do certain mods because 'it doesn't void the warranty'. Bottom line is this: If it happens off road, it's not covered under warranty. If it's on road, well, it's not going to break anyway. The 'warranty' card is just something the dealer tries to play to get you to pay double or triple for the stuff they are selling.

2. The part about 17's is completely wrong. 15" - 18"+ is fine. 15's are better for wheeling and tires are less expensive. I just bought 35's with 15" wheels. Tires were $100 less for the exact same tire in a 15" than a 17". The larger the rim, more expensive tires. Many claim that larger rims will give you better 'on road' ride.

Only problem with a 15" is you have to have less backspacing -- 3.75" vs. 4.5". There will also be less selection of wheels. However, if you plan on wearing out the tires and replacing them in a few years, you save $400 each time.

Lifts -- I have the RK 2.5" max travel. I have only had my Jeep for a year, but wheel with people that have had Jeeps for 20+ years. I will never run a lift that isn't an RK lift. They make top notch stuff and their warranty replacement is exceptional.

There are many other great lift manufacturers. Teraflex would be my second choice. AEV is overpriced and use questionable technology. Not that it would matter a lot if you're mostly driving on pavement with some light wheeling.

Shocks -- probably equally important to lift selection considering mostly on road use. I have Bilstein 5100's and love how they handle. You could definitely spend more for Fox or King shocks, but those you would only see much of a benefit off road.

If you have the means, try to get a ride from people that have similar setups to what you want. That's the only real way to tell what you will prefer.
This is the same lift I've been focusing on...the RK Max-Travel 2.5". I've been kicking the idea of 16" or 17" wheels, but nothing larger. How wide of a wheel should I go with? I don't like the "cookie cutter" look, but I don't want something super-wide, either. A lot of applications I've found are 17x8 wheels. I also don't want something sticking out further than the fenders, but do like that "pushed out" look of the wheels/tires.

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Old 10-08-2012, 03:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
I dunno what you're rolling your eyes for, he's right on the money.

So what's your decision?

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Old 10-08-2012, 03:53 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by PhotoWrangler View Post
So what's your decision?
To go back to bed and think about it later.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:42 AM   #34
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You have a good thread running here. I applaud you for having the nuts to admit its all confusing. It is.

Here is what I have learned.

The Rubicon sway bar motor is crap. If you depend on it, it will fail. That is why I have quick disconnects and a sway bar motor. If I'm running mild trails I will generally use the button. If I'm going to be running blues at RC, I disconnect manually and leave the button alone. I know some day it will fail, and I'll warranty that work, but at least I'm prepared

I believe progressive coils and upgradeability are the two most important factors on a lift. Progressive coils because it seems all I do is add weight to my rig. Bumpers and wiches will do that. Upgradeability, yeah I know that isn't a real word, because I seem to like more stuff after I get stuff installed. I know you said Green trails, and I remember saying that too, right up until I started doing Blue trails, and liked it.

Another vote for Rock Krawler. A couple of reasons, they make a quality product, great value, good guarentee, and excellant customer service. Also, there are people that I wheel with that really understand lifts much better than I do. All of them agree that for a 2.5 lift, you can't do any better than RK. After I had my 2.5 Max Travel installed, I got some rear upper control arms at a really nice price from someone that was trading in their rig. So now I'll buy the front upper control arms from RK and have their X factor lift at a reasonable bump in cost. Sometimes you need to start small, nice to be able to add on as time and budget allow.

As far as moving the wheel base out. If you are going to buy new wheels and tires, and the tires are going to be 12.5 wide, you are going to need 4.5 back spacing on the wheels to prevent rubbing. That is going to move the edge of the tire outside the fender. If you have wheel and tire questions, spend some time on the phone with Discount Tires Direct. Not only do they sell stuff, their reps are very knowledgable.

As far as shocks go. I realize you plan on running greens, but even some greens can turn into blues after a bad storm or because some jack wagon did something stupid on the trail. You may need to be able to articulate. This is when an aftermarket shock is going to be needed, rather than preferred. I would suggest being prepared, rather than blowing a shock and possibly causing more damage. This also creates the requirement for aftermarket bumpstops. Bumpstops limit the down travel on your shock, and can prevent you from busting one. You are going to need to discuss this with someone more knowledgeable than me to determine how big a bump stop you'll need. Your lift, tires, and shocks will all need to be taken into consideration.

Running 35s on a Dana 44 isn't going to be an axle issue. Its going to be a Ball Joint issue. Get some gussets and your ball joints will last longer. The more aggressive trails may require a sleeve. It really doesn't sound like you'll ever need a truss.

That is what I've learned to date, and some of my opinions. One way or the other, have fun. You certainly have been patient, I could never have pulled that off, but I respect it.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:49 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanJKunlimited2012
You have a good thread running here. I applaud you for having the nuts to admit its all confusing. It is.

Here is what I have learned.

The Rubicon sway bar motor is crap. If you depend on it, it will fail. That is why I have quick disconnects and a sway bar motor. If I'm running mild trails I will generally use the button. If I'm going to be running blues at RC, I disconnect manually and leave the button alone. I know some day it will fail, and I'll warranty that work, but at least I'm prepared

I believe progressive coils and upgradeability are the two most important factors on a lift. Progressive coils because it seems all I do is add weight to my rig. Bumpers and wiches will do that. Upgradeability, yeah I know that isn't a real word, because I seem to like more stuff after I get stuff installed. I know you said Green trails, and I remember saying that too, right up until I started doing Blue trails, and liked it.

Another vote for Rock Krawler. A couple of reasons, they make a quality product, great value, good guarentee, and excellant customer service. Also, there are people that I wheel with that really understand lifts much better than I do. All of them agree that for a 2.5 lift, you can't do any better than RK. After I had my 2.5 Max Travel installed, I got some rear upper control arms at a really nice price from someone that was trading in their rig. So now I'll buy the front upper control arms from RK and have their X factor lift at a reasonable bump in cost. Sometimes you need to start small, nice to be able to add on as time and budget allow.

As far as moving the wheel base out. If you are going to buy new wheels and tires, and the tires are going to be 12.5 wide, you are going to need 4.5 back spacing on the wheels to prevent rubbing. That is going to move the edge of the tire outside the fender. If you have wheel and tire questions, spend some time on the phone with Discount Tires Direct. Not only do they sell stuff, their reps are very knowledgable.

As far as shocks go. I realize you plan on running greens, but even some greens can turn into blues after a bad storm or because some jack wagon did something stupid on the trail. You may need to be able to articulate. This is when an aftermarket shock is going to be needed, rather than preferred. I would suggest being prepared, rather than blowing a shock and possibly causing more damage. This also creates the requirement for aftermarket bumpstops. Bumpstops limit the down travel on your shock, and can prevent you from busting one. You are going to need to discuss this with someone more knowledgeable than me to determine how big a bump stop you'll need. Your lift, tires, and shocks will all need to be taken into consideration.

Running 35s on a Dana 44 isn't going to be an axle issue. Its going to be a Ball Joint issue. Get some gussets and your ball joints will last longer. The more aggressive trails may require a sleeve. It really doesn't sound like you'll ever need a truss.

That is what I've learned to date, and some of my opinions. One way or the other, have fun. You certainly have been patient, I could never have pulled that off, but I respect it.
2 things.

Did you install the rear uppers along with the max travel lowers ? I was under the impression (says so on RK site) that the max travel lowers only work with stock uppers. The X factor kit used longer lowers for wheelbase and pinion.

Backspacing is not wheel base. Wheelbase is the distance between the axles front to back

Ken

Oh.... And bumpstops limit up travel to prevent the shock from bottoming out. Limiting straps would help from overextending the shocks,

Probably going to have to replace the crappy ball joints at some point anyways.
Gusseting prevents the C's from bending and throwing camber off. Won't help the balljoints any.
Good idea to gusset regardless of tire size/axle. Cheap assurance.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ryanJKunlimited2012 View Post
You have a good thread running here. I applaud you for having the nuts to admit its all confusing. It is.

Here is what I have learned.

The Rubicon sway bar motor is crap. If you depend on it, it will fail. That is why I have quick disconnects and a sway bar motor. If I'm running mild trails I will generally use the button. If I'm going to be running blues at RC, I disconnect manually and leave the button alone. I know some day it will fail, and I'll warranty that work, but at least I'm prepared

I believe progressive coils and upgradeability are the two most important factors on a lift. Progressive coils because it seems all I do is add weight to my rig. Bumpers and wiches will do that. Upgradeability, yeah I know that isn't a real word, because I seem to like more stuff after I get stuff installed. I know you said Green trails, and I remember saying that too, right up until I started doing Blue trails, and liked it.

Another vote for Rock Krawler. A couple of reasons, they make a quality product, great value, good guarentee, and excellant customer service. Also, there are people that I wheel with that really understand lifts much better than I do. All of them agree that for a 2.5 lift, you can't do any better than RK. After I had my 2.5 Max Travel installed, I got some rear upper control arms at a really nice price from someone that was trading in their rig. So now I'll buy the front upper control arms from RK and have their X factor lift at a reasonable bump in cost. Sometimes you need to start small, nice to be able to add on as time and budget allow.

As far as moving the wheel base out. If you are going to buy new wheels and tires, and the tires are going to be 12.5 wide, you are going to need 4.5 back spacing on the wheels to prevent rubbing. That is going to move the edge of the tire outside the fender. If you have wheel and tire questions, spend some time on the phone with Discount Tires Direct. Not only do they sell stuff, their reps are very knowledgable.

As far as shocks go. I realize you plan on running greens, but even some greens can turn into blues after a bad storm or because some jack wagon did something stupid on the trail. You may need to be able to articulate. This is when an aftermarket shock is going to be needed, rather than preferred. I would suggest being prepared, rather than blowing a shock and possibly causing more damage. This also creates the requirement for aftermarket bumpstops. Bumpstops limit the down travel on your shock, and can prevent you from busting one. You are going to need to discuss this with someone more knowledgeable than me to determine how big a bump stop you'll need. Your lift, tires, and shocks will all need to be taken into consideration.

Running 35s on a Dana 44 isn't going to be an axle issue. Its going to be a Ball Joint issue. Get some gussets and your ball joints will last longer. The more aggressive trails may require a sleeve. It really doesn't sound like you'll ever need a truss.

That is what I've learned to date, and some of my opinions. One way or the other, have fun. You certainly have been patient, I could never have pulled that off, but I respect it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
2 things.

Did you install the rear uppers along with the max travel lowers ? I was under the impression (says so on RK site) that the max travel lowers only work with stock uppers. The X factor kit used longer lowers for wheelbase and pinion.

Backspacing is not wheel base. Wheelbase is the distance between the axles front to back

Ken

Oh.... And bumpstops limit up travel to prevent the shock from bottoming out. Limiting straps would help from overextending the shocks,

Probably going to have to replace the crappy ball joints at some point anyways.
Gusseting prevents the C's from bending and throwing camber off. Won't help the balljoints any.
Good idea to gusset regardless of tire size/axle. Cheap assurance.
Okay, great info here.

This looks like I'm in way over my head as far as doing any sort of budget lift. Maybe I'm wrong here because I haven't added costs of everything, but this looks to like I'm going to be spending thousands. Granted, I wanna do everything I need to do to insure it's gonna be reliable, but this seems like by the time I get done, I could have built Big Foot for less.

I'm not afraid to admit this vehicle is pretty much an "asphalt princess" which may hit a fire trail every now and then, but I'm more concerned with the "big, bad Jeep" look than anything else. Simply put, I love the looks of a lifted Jeep with big tires. As long as I can keep the reliability of a stock Rubicon and keep the performance at factory levels, I'm happy.

I will never go to Moab, or do red/black trails at Rausch Creek, or rock crawl, or ford through streams up to the hood. I absolutely hate rocks, and don't care if I ever run over another one, but I DO like driving through 1.5-2.0 feet of water, driving through mud, slowly rolling over downed tree trunks, climbing hills littered with roots and some smaller sized logs, and snow just can't come quick enough. Basically, I just HATE rocks.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:17 AM   #37
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A lift kit is the lowest priced part of adding a lift to your JKU. Where the money comes in is gussets, front drive shaft, axle tubes, wheels, tires, track bar, tie rod, ball joints, gears, etc......
The list goes on as far as your budget and needs are meet.
I consider the items above as a bare minimum to compliment any lift over 2.5" It's the only way to make it reliable as it was stock. I am describing a street driven JKU here. Now you don't have to do it all at once, but if you wait to long, parts will wear quickly and fail. Such as your front DS, it's only a matter of time before the CV boot tears. With 35"s and larger the stress on the stock ball joints will cause them to bend without off road use. I have heard from a few people now of axle C's bending on a mall crawler. Not much, but they need gussets.
In order of importance.
Lift kit
adjustable front track bar, bracket for rear is ok
Adjustable lower arms front, rear uppers
Front DS
Axle tubes
ball joints
C gussets
tie rod if using 35"s (The stocker is made from black licorice)
gears
aev procal

Good luck with your lift. The good thing is you know enough of what not to do. I have been overjoyed with my Teraflex lift. You can check my garage for mods. It's been 6 months and I have only scratched the surface. Keep us posted when you start!
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:23 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10
AEV 2.5 is my vote. Progressive coils 2/4 door specific coils, that way you shouldn't have to worry about over shooting 2.5"
The key is, you want to stay at 2.5 or under. Having a heavier 4 door helps.
AEV also addresses caster for drivability.
At least gusset the upper C's. if going 35's
Based I my experiences a 16 or even 17" rim.

Everybody who knows me knows how much I love my Rancho shocks. It's a guessing game with the others. The adjustability is huge with these
Again ^^

Gussets are cheap but a huge safe assurance
No need to spend $400 a shock for good performance.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:31 AM   #39
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:31 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by chim-chim7 View Post
A lift kit is the lowest priced part of adding a lift to your JKU. Where the money comes in is gussets, front drive shaft, axle tubes, wheels, tires, track bar, tie rod, ball joints, gears, etc......
The list goes on as far as your budget and needs are meet.
I consider the items above as a bare minimum to compliment any lift over 2.5" It's the only way to make it reliable as it was stock. I am describing a street driven JKU here. Now you don't have to do it all at once, but if you wait to long, parts will wear quickly and fail. Such as your front DS, it's only a matter of time before the CV boot tears. With 35"s and larger the stress on the stock ball joints will cause them to bend without off road use. I have heard from a few people now of axle C's bending on a mall crawler. Not much, but they need gussets.
In order of importance.
Lift kit
adjustable front track bar, bracket for rear is ok
Adjustable lower arms front, rear uppers
Front DS
Axle tubes
ball joints
C gussets
tie rod if using 35"s (The stocker is made from black licorice)
gears
aev procal

Good luck with your lift. The good thing is you know enough of what not to do. I have been overjoyed with my Teraflex lift. You can check my garage for mods. It's been 6 months and I have only scratched the surface. Keep us posted when you start!
Thanks for this! This pretty much puts it all in perspective!
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:14 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
This is the same lift I've been focusing on...the RK Max-Travel 2.5". I've been kicking the idea of 16" or 17" wheels, but nothing larger. How wide of a wheel should I go with? I don't like the "cookie cutter" look, but I don't want something super-wide, either. A lot of applications I've found are 17x8 wheels. I also don't want something sticking out further than the fenders, but do like that "pushed out" look of the wheels/tires.
If you're considering 16" or 17", I'd go with 17 X 8. This will allow you to go with a 12.5" wide tire, 35 X 12.5. Don't go with the metric sizes, they are all narrow and somewhat in between sizes.

If you go down to a 16", most tire companies don't make a 35". The largest is 315 X 75 X 16 which is essentially a 34" and much more narrow. I discovered this the hard way -- had 33 X 16. When I went to 35's, I had to by new rims so went with a 15" over a 17".
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:10 PM   #42
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If you're considering 16" or 17", I'd go with 17 X 8. This will allow you to go with a 12.5" wide tire, 35 X 12.5. Don't go with the metric sizes, they are all narrow and somewhat in between sizes.

If you go down to a 16", most tire companies don't make a 35". The largest is 315 X 75 X 16 which is essentially a 34" and much more narrow. I discovered this the hard way -- had 33 X 16. When I went to 35's, I had to by new rims so went with a 15" over a 17".
12.5" is a pretty wide tire, isn't it? Won't the tire be sticking out past the fender, even with the correct backspacing? I don't wanna be getting pulled over every three blocks by Cletus, who's on a powertrip...
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:17 PM   #43
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12.5" is a pretty wide tire, isn't it? Won't the tire be sticking out past the fender, even with the correct backspacing? I don't wanna be getting pulled over every three blocks by Cletus, who's on a powertrip...

If Cletus wants to pull you over he will... Wide tires or not.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:33 PM   #44
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Well I have a 2012 Sahara and I am running a 3" TF lift that Mopar allows to keep the warranty valid.
There is not a lift made that voids the warranty and there is not a lift made for which warranty coverage will be maintained if the lift causes a problem. If you want to keep all of your warranty coverage, don't put a lift on. Pretty simple stuff.

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1. Warranty - Many do certain mods because 'it doesn't void the warranty'. Bottom line is this: If it happens off road, it's not covered under warranty. If it's on road, well, it's not going to break anyway. The 'warranty' card is just something the dealer tries to play to get you to pay double or triple for the stuff they are selling.
The idea that being offroad automatically means the warranty won't cover it is not true, nor is the idea that if you're on road it won't break. I do agree that dealers play warranty games to lure you back into the dealership to have mods installed at well above the going rate.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:18 PM   #45
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12.5" is a pretty wide tire, isn't it? Won't the tire be sticking out past the fender, even with the correct backspacing? I don't wanna be getting pulled over every three blocks by Cletus, who's on a powertrip...
Even with 4.5" BS, they are going to stick out. That's why the OEM rims are 6.5", so that they won't stick out. My last wheels were 4.5" and so would spray the side of the Jeep anytime I went through water at above 2-3 mph. The only way to have them not stick out with 4.5" BS is to get wider fenders. Look up the regulations for your state.

It really depends on what type of tire you're going with anyway. Mostly the MT tires come in the 35 X 12.5. If you want an AT, most that I've seen only come in the metric sizes anyway. That is fine, but you're not going to get a true 35", it will be 34.5" which when mounted will be closer to a 34" than a 35". Again, depends on the tire. Some run small, BFG for example.

If going with the metric sizes, plug it into one of the tire size calculators like: Tire size calculator

The upside to that is, as mentioned, they won't be as wide, won't stick out as much. Plus won't weigh as much so won't strain your D30 the same way a true 35" would.

So if going that route, 16" wheels do become an option again and you would save money on tires.
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Old 10-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #46
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The idea that being offroad automatically means the warranty won't cover it is not true, nor is the idea that if you're on road it won't break. I do agree that dealers play warranty games to lure you back into the dealership to have mods installed at well above the going rate.
I hear ya. My point is that things that are likely to break are going to break while wheeling -- Axles, joints, driveshaft, oil pan, evap, etc. If your engine fails, it's still going to be covered. However, that's not going to be related to anything done by a lift or wheels.

For example -- After lifting and installing aftermarket wheels, I was wheeling and tore my rear driveshaft boot. It was torn because the factory evap skid is too close to it, contacted it, tore the boot. Not covered even though it could somewhat be argued that it's a manufacturer flaw. Of course, wouldn't happen on the street, so not covered.

I have the maintenance plan. While wheeling, screwed up my alignment. My mileage doesn't dictate needing alignment. Again, not covered.

Busted OEM steering stabilizer on a rock. Not covered.

These are the types of things that will happen while wheeling. None will be covered. Sure, if the lift installed by Mopar fails, they might cover that. I'm just saying that like the lift failing, stuff covered is unlikely to fail anyway while wheeling.
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:19 PM   #47
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:40 PM   #48
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the damage you cause to the jeep is from wheeling. hands down. you could have prorock 80s front and rear with clayton long arms and still manage to break every single part of your jeep, it just comes down to how you wheel. if you plan on doing just greens, with the hardest you push the jeep being flexing out the suspension and maybe dragging the diff, 35s will be fine. if you want worry free (and cheaper) just do some 35 on 17s, and run some spidertrax wheel spacers. not 100% ideal, but it works. the only wheels that might give you trouble will be 15s, so as long as you stick with 17s youll be fine' aim for 4.5-5.5" backspacing and youll be golden.

in terms of tire width, if you take stock tires and wheels, and slap a 1.5" spacer on, the tires will now be on the outside edge of the fenders. not outside of, but no longer sitting inside of the fenders like stock. again if not doing anything crazy, do stock wheels with some 35s

in terms of lift, for what you describe, go OME. I mean, it's not really fair to knock a bunch of those names that you knocked, because at 2.5" lift, theres not much to do. however some of the names on that list (specifically RK) will net you alot more than 2.5" too. With an OME kit (and don't get the kit, order it from some place like Northridge who make their own kit) you get some shocks and springs, and you'll be golden. if you want, get some lower front control arms and upper rear control arms. if youre feeling really anal, get front and rear adjustable trackbars. but with just the springs and shocks, youll enjoy the ride, and it will be fine to take on greens at rausch.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #49
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also, everytime warranty threads come up, i want to strangle a kitten. warranty is very simple. follow this flow chart

did a part break? if yes continue, if no, then shut up;
did that part break because of a defect from the factory, if yes continue, if no, then shut up
do you realize that "defect" is not the same as "I dropped my jeep off a cliff into the ocean and now my horn sounds funny
if yes continue, if no, then shut up
congrats, you should be able to warranty the part

and bam, thats warranty. end of story
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:02 PM   #50
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also, since this was the only thread on the front page that caught my eye, can I just say, I hate these open ended type threads. theyre useless; theyre easy to get way off topic, and not a specific enough set of answers.

"Hi my name is dan and I want to buy a lift and tires, what should I look for?"

the only difference here is that you have 2000 posts and basically told us you dont want to research anything. people in your position should research. go look at what tires you want, research, come back with some questions. same for the wheels and lift. i understand you do have some basic questions of "will 35s bend my axle", and thats fine to ask, but even that is a terrible question (although more because the answer is terrible. how many people on the forum have bent an axle? I bent mine. you want to know what monster tires I was running? stock SRAs on stock tires. theres no one size fits all to the axle bending, its just preventive maintenance to add the gussets and tubing
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:24 PM   #51
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To go back to bed and think about it later.
Im with ya there. I always hate when poeple try to play the "big boy" on an internet forum like they know who you are or how you make decisions.

I am a lot like you. I have to have my mind made up with lots of research before I spend several thousands of dollars. I like to read, research, and ask ?s before I spend. Kudos to you for asking the questions with humility.


My jeep is supposed to arrive next month and I am gearing up to mod by year end.

Good Luck with your project.
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:52 PM   #52
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I guess I got taken by my dealership. I got a teraflex 3" lift with shocks, xdm 800 misfit wheels x5, Mickey Thompson baja MTZ tires x5, hood lock, all installed for 4,100.00. They told me a jeep is made to be off road and if something breaks and it's still in warranty we will fix it as long as it doesnt look like abuse. I got my jeep went off roading and messed up my alignment and my ESC light, I believe, was coming on. Called the dealer and they said no problem bring it in and we will take care of it they are even rotating my tires while I'm there. Got the appointment next week. So it's either dealer specific or something but they specifically told me for the warranty they had to do the install and it had to be the TF 2.5" budget boost, 3" or the 4" lifts. They also put a limiting strap on the driver side front axle because Jeep specifically told them it had to be installed with the strap for the warranty to be valid. I can only assume it is to keep the front drive shaft boot from hitting the exhaust. I plan on getting an aftermarket DS and removing the strap but only if the dealer says OK.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:14 AM   #53
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Even with 4.5" BS, they are going to stick out. That's why the OEM rims are 6.5", so that they won't stick out. My last wheels were 4.5" and so would spray the side of the Jeep anytime I went through water at above 2-3 mph. The only way to have them not stick out with 4.5" BS is to get wider fenders. Look up the regulations for your state.

It really depends on what type of tire you're going with anyway. Mostly the MT tires come in the 35 X 12.5. If you want an AT, most that I've seen only come in the metric sizes anyway. That is fine, but you're not going to get a true 35", it will be 34.5" which when mounted will be closer to a 34" than a 35". Again, depends on the tire. Some run small, BFG for example.

If going with the metric sizes, plug it into one of the tire size calculators like: Tire size calculator

The upside to that is, as mentioned, they won't be as wide, won't stick out as much. Plus won't weigh as much so won't strain your D30 the same way a true 35" would.

So if going that route, 16" wheels do become an option again and you would save money on tires.
I'd really like to stick with 17s. I have my eye on some 17x8 wheels.

People have been mentioning adding gussets. Would adding gussets be due to the increase in weight of the new wheels/tires or would it be a sizing issue? Would it be due to the backspacing difference between the stock and the 4.5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sneck View Post
the damage you cause to the jeep is from wheeling. hands down. you could have prorock 80s front and rear with clayton long arms and still manage to break every single part of your jeep, it just comes down to how you wheel. if you plan on doing just greens, with the hardest you push the jeep being flexing out the suspension and maybe dragging the diff, 35s will be fine. if you want worry free (and cheaper) just do some 35 on 17s, and run some spidertrax wheel spacers. not 100% ideal, but it works. the only wheels that might give you trouble will be 15s, so as long as you stick with 17s youll be fine' aim for 4.5-5.5" backspacing and youll be golden.

in terms of tire width, if you take stock tires and wheels, and slap a 1.5" spacer on, the tires will now be on the outside edge of the fenders. not outside of, but no longer sitting inside of the fenders like stock. again if not doing anything crazy, do stock wheels with some 35s

in terms of lift, for what you describe, go OME. I mean, it's not really fair to knock a bunch of those names that you knocked, because at 2.5" lift, theres not much to do. however some of the names on that list (specifically RK) will net you alot more than 2.5" too. With an OME kit (and don't get the kit, order it from some place like Northridge who make their own kit) you get some shocks and springs, and you'll be golden. if you want, get some lower front control arms and upper rear control arms. if youre feeling really anal, get front and rear adjustable trackbars. but with just the springs and shocks, youll enjoy the ride, and it will be fine to take on greens at rausch.
I'm not knocking any of the kits, I just feel more comfortable with something NOT made in China. Besides that, I worry about going with a 2.5" lift, and then finding out I'm going to wind up with 3"+ of lift, and be stuck swapping driveshafts, too...

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Originally Posted by sneck View Post
also, since this was the only thread on the front page that caught my eye, can I just say, I hate these open ended type threads. theyre useless; theyre easy to get way off topic, and not a specific enough set of answers.

"Hi my name is dan and I want to buy a lift and tires, what should I look for?"

the only difference here is that you have 2000 posts and basically told us you dont want to research anything. people in your position should research. go look at what tires you want, research, come back with some questions. same for the wheels and lift. i understand you do have some basic questions of "will 35s bend my axle", and thats fine to ask, but even that is a terrible question (although more because the answer is terrible. how many people on the forum have bent an axle? I bent mine. you want to know what monster tires I was running? stock SRAs on stock tires. theres no one size fits all to the axle bending, its just preventive maintenance to add the gussets and tubing
Of course this thread caught your eye. It's abundantly clear from your post you just wanna come over here, pound your chest, and play "internet know-it-all."

Nobody asked you if you liked this thread, and nobody cares. I have every right to ask questions, and I think I've already made it perfectly clear I've been doing my research. Had you read my initial post prior to spouting off atop your caving soapbox, you would have already seen that I've been doing my research and had made some decisions. And who are you to judge "what's fine to ask?" Who made you the king of Wrangler Forum? I apologize for missing crowning ceremony!

Think of this thread as a restaurant. If you don't like what's on the menu, feel free to leave and go eat elsewhere.

And you're one to talk about useless posts...

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Originally Posted by beefsks View Post
Im with ya there. I always hate when poeple try to play the "big boy" on an internet forum like they know who you are or how you make decisions.

I am a lot like you. I have to have my mind made up with lots of research before I spend several thousands of dollars. I like to read, research, and ask ?s before I spend. Kudos to you for asking the questions with humility.


My jeep is supposed to arrive next month and I am gearing up to mod by year end.

Good Luck with your project.
I just addressed what I really think of that with the quote above, so I'm going to move on from that.

I don't have thousands of dollars to dick around with and "try out" different lifts. I put out a lot of money for my Jeep and I'm on a budget. Unlike some members of the forum (and I'm not pointing at anyone here...), I have other obligations such as a mortgage, utility/credit card/etc. bills I'm responsible for, and ya damned well better believe keeping a roof over my head is more important than how good my Jeep looks. I'm gonna wind up buying little by little, anyway. I'll probably wind up buying one wheel/tire at a time so it'll be a bit easier on my wallet.

I'm not posting here saying, "Choose my lift!" I'm not in the "business" of wasting peoples' time with asking for advice, then throwing it to the wayside. There are A LOT of kits out there, from mild to wild. Look at the RK kits. They have how many versions of their 2.5" lifts? Two? Three? Every one of these companies is marketing, "Oh, buy our kit! You don't need anything else!" Then, I ask questions or read other peoples' threads here and find out that's everything BUT the truth!

I thought I made it clear in my first post what I was looking for, and what questions I had. I stressed that I was looking at kits MADE IN THE USA, aside from OME. I didn't bash the other kits, or say I disliked the other kits, I simply said I wasn't comfortable putting something made in China on my vehicle. If it works for others, great, but it doesn't work for me.

I appreciate all the help I'm getting here from MOST of the people who have posted, save for a select few (and it's clear to everyone here helping me out who those people are...). There's a wealth of knowledge here that I'm getting, and it's a big help. I thank everyone here for their advice with what I actually need and what to look for to ensure this gets done the right way.
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:48 AM   #54
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I'd really like to stick with 17s. I have my eye on some 17x8 wheels.

People have been mentioning adding gussets. Would adding gussets be due to the increase in weight of the new wheels/tires or would it be a sizing issue? Would it be due to the backspacing difference between the stock and the 4.5?

By all means, get the wheels you like! My favorite wheel is a 17", but an extra $400 - $600 would kill my budget.

Gussets are to reinforce the axle in the spot that is most likely to bend/break. Mostly a weight issue. It's cheap insurance compared to the cost of fixing it if you don't. Sleeve and truss are also good ideas, but probably not really necessary for light wheeling.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:05 AM   #55
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nah , least amount of lift for the biggest tires. I did a budget boost top gun customz lift leveling kit. 2" rear and 2.5" front,with 3" zone shocks. Then came the hyliner rock front bumper and the mopar rear bumper. then the 315/70/17's (aka 35") on 17x9 moto metal skulls. I only rubbed the rear flare when i decided i could out run a yellow light with a 3' deep dip in the road(made the light but not worth the grind). I was on a budget thats why i went that rout. I would like to have the bigger lift but that has to wait till spring. My jeep has been to the dealer and not a word out of them on out of warranty, actually they want to take a pic and use it on their advertising. 99% of the info on this forum is accurate and tried and true. Sooner or later your gonna have to jump on the boat or you will be watching every one else. oh the tires are nitto trail grappler mt's the quietest m/t out there
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:27 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by suicideking

By all means, get the wheels you like! My favorite wheel is a 17", but an extra $400 - $600 would kill my budget.

Gussets are to reinforce the axle in the spot that is most likely to bend/break. Mostly a weight issue. It's cheap insurance compared to the cost of fixing it if you don't. Sleeve and truss are also good ideas, but probably not really necessary for light wheeling.
Agree

Con- I think your making it very hard on yourself.
Others and myself have giving you good advice. Why are you making it so hard?

From what I gather. You want a small lift but don't want to worry about driveshaft and such?

AEV is perfect, 2.5" and the brackets will deal with caster/drivability. Even a BB would work and Guarantee 2.5.
Reinforce the C's (gussets) this will only cost a few hundred bucks and save thousands to replace the axle.

Relax.... Have fun and enjoy the jeep

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:13 AM   #57
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Every time I read one of these threads... I keep coming back to the AEV 2.5" lift. (Ok maybe a TF 2.5 with Bilstein 5100's. But that battle will be based on cost) Both lifts get great reviews, won't bust your budget, or require a zillion other mods to compensate for the original mod - The Lift. After that, it's just a matter of personal preference. Chocolate vs. Vanilla (vanilla always)

My Jeep is a DD. I'd like to say I'll do 95% on pavement, and 5% off-road. Fact is, If I'm really being honest, it's probably closer to 99% pavement. Frankly, I just want to plunk down my $$ for a lift that will be good quality, and have no negative impact on road manners. Install it. Get some cool wheels and tires... and go on. End of story. Hey! Nice looking rig!!

I really think that most people here that are wringing their hands (and kittens apparently) about what lift to do (myself, formerly included) and are wallowing around due to so many opinions and "what if" scenarios. My bet is that if you really don't know shit about what suspension mods to do, you fall into the 95-5 catagory. There's nothing wrong with that! You want a Jeep that gets complimented and can handle the occasional trail. Get something that works. I.e. AEV - TF

I basically boiled it down to this: Budget vs. Performance vs. Capability

If you're about Capability (which I am NOT), then you really can't be concerned with a few hundred dollars this way or that. Again, refer to the 95-5 catagory. What capability do YOU have, let alone your rig have, and the $$ your willing to spend is directly related to both. Again, if your being honest with yourself, in this catagory you have to be more than a NOOB or your pissing your money away. Invariably you will buy the wrong thing, because you don't know, what you don't know. And there isn't a way to know until you get out there and either can't do what you want to do, or break something trying it. OP - You said it... You are a 95-5 'er. I certainly would like to have something that can handle the trails and not be calling AAA from the middle of nowhere. But seriously, give yourself credit for some common sense. Are you going to do something stupid when you don't have the equipment to handle it? I'd bet not. So why sacrifice money & mods for something you'll use so little? There are plenty of threads out there that the EXPERIENCED wheelers can chime in and give their opinions about which products and mods are best. But frankly, for the NOOB it is a distraction, and you should try to avoid. It's an Apples & Oranges conversation.

If it's Budget, a 2" spacer kit gives you the look and ability to put larger tires on, for a couple of hundred dollars. If you budget precludes spending $1000 for a lift, ...Go for it, they work, or they wouldn't sell them.

If it's Performance, then going with a coil/shock setup is going to be better than a spacer setup. Especially for the occasional trail work. And again, there are plenty of people on this site who'll give thumbs up to any number of systems. (I just mention AEV/TF because obviously they are most popular. But maybe for you, it's something else because your local shop has better product support for RK, for example) AEV users seem to be the most enthusiastic about on-road performance. That's where I am 95-99% of the time. Why would I want a setup that detracts from how I use my Jeep the most?


Go with a good brand, get good advise from the people who will install it, and get on with your day.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #58
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Agree

Con- I think your making it very hard on yourself.
Others and myself have giving you good advice. Why are you making it so hard?

From what I gather. You want a small lift but don't want to worry about driveshaft and such?

AEV is perfect, 2.5" and the brackets will deal with caster/drivability. Even a BB would work and Guarantee 2.5.
Reinforce the C's (gussets) this will only cost a few hundred bucks and save thousands to replace the axle.

Relax.... Have fun and enjoy the jeep

Ken
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkfenderslookbetter View Post
Every time I read one of these threads... I keep coming back to the AEV 2.5" lift. (Ok maybe a TF 2.5 with Bilstein 5100's. But that battle will be based on cost) Both lifts get great reviews, won't bust your budget, or require a zillion other mods to compensate for the original mod - The Lift. After that, it's just a matter of personal preference. Chocolate vs. Vanilla (vanilla always)

My Jeep is a DD. I'd like to say I'll do 95% on pavement, and 5% off-road. Fact is, If I'm really being honest, it's probably closer to 99% pavement. Frankly, I just want to plunk down my $$ for a lift that will be good quality, and have no negative impact on road manners. Install it. Get some cool wheels and tires... and go on. End of story. Hey! Nice looking rig!!

I really think that most people here that are wringing their hands (and kittens apparently) about what lift to do (myself, formerly included) and are wallowing around due to so many opinions and "what if" scenarios. My bet is that if you really don't know shit about what suspension mods to do, you fall into the 95-5 catagory. There's nothing wrong with that! You want a Jeep that gets complimented and can handle the occasional trail. Get something that works. I.e. AEV - TF

I basically boiled it down to this: Budget vs. Performance vs. Capability

If you're about Capability (which I am NOT), then you really can't be concerned with a few hundred dollars this way or that. Again, refer to the 95-5 catagory. What capability do YOU have, let alone your rig have, and the $$ your willing to spend is directly related to both. Again, if your being honest with yourself, in this catagory you have to be more than a NOOB or your pissing your money away. Invariably you will buy the wrong thing, because you don't know, what you don't know. And there isn't a way to know until you get out there and either can't do what you want to do, or break something trying it. OP - You said it... You are a 95-5 'er. I certainly would like to have something that can handle the trails and not be calling AAA from the middle of nowhere. But seriously, give yourself credit for some common sense. Are you going to do something stupid when you don't have the equipment to handle it? I'd bet not. So why sacrifice money & mods for something you'll use so little? There are plenty of threads out there that the EXPERIENCED wheelers can chime in and give their opinions about which products and mods are best. But frankly, for the NOOB it is a distraction, and you should try to avoid. It's an Apples & Oranges conversation.

If it's Budget, a 2" spacer kit gives you the look and ability to put larger tires on, for a couple of hundred dollars. If you budget precludes spending $1000 for a lift, ...Go for it, they work, or they wouldn't sell them.

If it's Performance, then going with a coil/shock setup is going to be better than a spacer setup. Especially for the occasional trail work. And again, there are plenty of people on this site who'll give thumbs up to any number of systems. (I just mention AEV/TF because obviously they are most popular. But maybe for you, it's something else because your local shop has better product support for RK, for example) AEV users seem to be the most enthusiastic about on-road performance. That's where I am 95-99% of the time. Why would I want a setup that detracts from how I use my Jeep the most?


Go with a good brand, get good advise from the people who will install it, and get on with your day.
Yeah, I do make things tougher on myself than they need to be, I'll admit to that.

Basically, to put it in the simplest terms I possibly can, I want to keep the factory level of performance/reliability, and I want all the factory parts to work in harmony with the mods, such as the electronic Swaybar Disconnect. I just want my Jeep to be on big tires and have a little bit of a lift.

If I have to add gussets, that's fine, but I don't need to build Big Foot here. I'd like to do fire trails and drive over tree trunks, take it out in the mud, snow, and what have you. I'd even like to take it through some shallow streams, but I don't have ANY interest in EVER crawling through another rock bed if I can avoid it, but if I do wind up having to, I'd like to be able to.

Basically, I want to get a complete lift kit where I don't have to add anything, and wheels/tires. I don't wanna go off having something installed, then all of a sudden, "Oh, you need relocation brackets because the kit didn't come with them!"
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Old 10-09-2012, 01:43 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist

Yeah, I do make things tougher on myself than they need to be, I'll admit to that.

Basically, to put it in the simplest terms I possibly can, I want to keep the factory level of performance/reliability, and I want all the factory parts to work in harmony with the mods, such as the electronic Swaybar Disconnect. I just want my Jeep to be on big tires and have a little bit of a lift.

If I have to add gussets, that's fine, but I don't need to build Big Foot here. I'd like to do fire trails and drive over tree trunks, take it out in the mud, snow, and what have you. I'd even like to take it through some shallow streams, but I don't have ANY interest in EVER crawling through another rock bed if I can avoid it, but if I do wind up having to, I'd like to be able to.

Basically, I want to get a complete lift kit where I don't have to add anything, and wheels/tires. I don't wanna go off having something installed, then all of a sudden, "Oh, you need relocation brackets because the kit didn't come with them!"
First time off road I might have bent my rear axle shaft. The trail was easy, but I did come down hard once. Experience-or In my case- lack off. Lol I did some damage.
Now bending a shaft is not all that costly of a job if done myself. Nothing I could have done to prevent it. Besides not depressing the clutch with no brakes and barreling down that rocky hill
Or upgrading the axle shafts to start. Bending a shaft was the last thing on my mind.
Anyways- the less lift the better. You want a lift that will keep you around 2". Over that and it things get very expensive.
I have 0 weight so my RK coils shot me up to over 4". Keep that in mind also

I need to do gussets, I think everybody should have them. Easy trails or not. All it takes is one bad move and

AEV is screaming your name. I think the 2.5 dual sport will work great for you,

Ken
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:05 PM   #60
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I believe the OP will make a wise decision all in due time.

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