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Old 04-13-2012, 09:42 AM   #61
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That is a sign. I appreciate all the help on this thread and my other. You guys are really great with all this. I usually just go to an audio store and buy whatever they recommend. Great systems, but way to pricy.

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Old 04-13-2012, 10:12 AM   #62
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So if I get that amp, I can still keep fader controls and it restores power to the sound bar speakers?

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Old 04-13-2012, 10:19 AM   #63
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Only works with an aftermarket Alpine head unit.

This is an easy (and relatively inexpensive) fix for those who DO NOT have the Infinity sound system.

If you have the Infinity system, it becomes a bit more complex, as you'll be bypassing the factory amp and will need to add an amp for the sub.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:45 AM   #64
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So if I get that amp, I can still keep fader controls and it restores power to the sound bar speakers?
If you have the Infinty system and you want to keep the stock head unit, along with full control, you are going to have to keep the stock amp, run in into a processor (which will restore each channel to full bandwith, strip the power, and turn them into pre-amp {RCA's}), then add another amp (or amps) to power your speakers.

You basically have to do this:




AudioControl DQL-8™ Digital processor with 8-channel line output converter at Crutchfield.com
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
If you have the Infinty system and you want to keep the stock head unit, along with full control, you are going to have to keep the stock amp, run in into a processor (which will restore each channel to full bandwith, strip the power, and turn them into pre-amp {RCA's}), then add another amp (or amps) to power your speakers.

You basically have to do this:




AudioControl DQL-8™ Digital processor with 8-channel line output converter at Crutchfield.com
More updates:

I compared a high quality output signal last night with my current setup vs the signal from the radio ... Short result the 130 in Infinity configuration with the JBL box sounded about equal to my Nexus S android with Voodoo Sound. (Look up the specs on that configuration and you will see that it's moderately high quality source) I was too lazy to hook up some of my higher end stuff, but basic results are that the JBL makes a huge difference and that the stock head unit when configured for Infinity has a decent quality output (in terms of driving the JBL)

On all the car audio forms when people from Harman (JBL) discuss the processor, they mention that by far the largest impact on your overall sound in the car is the transition from speaker to sound (including reflections etc) So, the processor is designed to handle that mess and clean it up. So, they are basically going against the conventional thinking for audio (particularly home where you can control the environment better)

My current setup is like that picture but with a single box driving all speakers and replacing the stock amp, and without an additional amp. You can also use post stock amp to retain the head unit volume control (I have to use the volume control on the JBL)

At any rate, stock head unit, one box, using the power cable for the stock amp, (so easy install / run) so far replacing only the soundbar speakers and dynamat them and it sounds incredibly good.

I'm actually questioning all the other stuff I have sitting in my room ready to install, (although I'm going to be doing it anyway )
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:16 AM   #66
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Well that sucks. I may as well replace the whole system.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:40 AM   #67
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I had the Alipine Power Pack in my 2009. It CAN be used with other brand head units. I had the power pack connected to a Kenwood head unit. I thought I read somewhere that the power pack can be used with the stock hu.

That said, I was not super impressed with difference. The sound was definitely clearer but was not a lot louder or fuller.

After driving a 2011 infinity setup for a while, I'm convinced that a normal amp/sub is necessary to make up for the weak sound bar.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:41 AM   #68
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The cross-talk in the Infinity amp is rather high also which effects stereo imaging.

Once I added an aftermarket amp the imaging improved.

Well, to say improved implies that there was any to begin with, there wasn't.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:39 PM   #69
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So, I have a question, are you using a PAC interface like the link below to intergrate the amp? Otherwise, I'm stumped as to how you're getting audio, oh wait, are you using high level inputs from the factory amp to the JBL?

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...RrVGMQ&safe=on
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #70
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I went full enchilada and replaced the head unit. I gave up on the factory head unit and amp.

Much better now.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:17 PM   #71
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Yeah they really do sound a hell of a lot better with a better amp. I threw my stock one in the garbage and got a 400watt amp and 2 10' subs in the back and man that things rocks it's unbelievable what just under 500 bucks can do
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:34 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by americonium
Jbl can be installed at speaker or pre levels. I have tried both ways. Unfortunately after pulling the stock amp I could not fit the jbl in the same location. So I'm now going to hook up my new amps and run new speaker wire and then feed them from the jbl.

I'm of two minds with adding the jbl pre or post amp in infinity system. Pre amp is an easier install but loses head unit volume control.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:12 AM   #73
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Has anyone tried the PAC interface? the AOEM-CHR3 seems to be 1/2 the price of the LI6, and seems to accomplish the task of bypassing/converting the CANBus signals to pre-out to hook to an amp, and still using the stock head unit.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:34 AM   #74
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I just got off the phone with PAC, the C2A-CHY23 will convert and allow you to take the factory amp out, but you will lose all sound imaging control (what little there is) from the head. so, you are stuck with the image that comes from whatever amp you put in place. so - unless there is some magic out there, where there is imaging on an amp, it seems the PAC products are out of the picture for me
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:40 AM   #75
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I went full enchilada and replaced the head unit. I gave up on the factory head unit and amp.

Much better now.
I'm quoting myself for emphasis....

Not kidding, my tunes sound good at 70 mph with the top off.

Pricey, but WORTH IT!
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:30 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by 3TimeOwner View Post
Has anyone tried the PAC interface? the AOEM-CHR3 seems to be 1/2 the price of the LI6, and seems to accomplish the task of bypassing/converting the CANBus signals to pre-out to hook to an amp, and still using the stock head unit.
This one is for non-Infinity systems. It is basically a LOC unit with a turn-on lead.

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Originally Posted by 3TimeOwner View Post
I just got off the phone with PAC, the C2A-CHY23 will convert and allow you to take the factory amp out, but you will lose all sound imaging control (what little there is) from the head. so, you are stuck with the image that comes from whatever amp you put in place. so - unless there is some magic out there, where there is imaging on an amp, it seems the PAC products are out of the picture for me
Damned if you do...
Damned if you don't...

If you connect before the Infinity amp, most of your controls are lost.
If you connect downstream of the Infinity amp, you are going to need a processor and new amps....which means a lot of money is being wasted.

The benefit of the stock Infinity system is having a stock looking system with a hidden amp that is off the floor, and a built in sub-enclosure (with 12v outlet) that that isn't attractive to thieves, but it sucks that you can't really adjust it.

We have not even gotten into swapping speakers. The Infinity amp has an odd turn-on signal (based on power feedback from the rear speakers or something goofy like that), and I believe is running at 2 ohms. So swapping in 4 ohm speakers may cut the amp output in half.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:35 AM   #77
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IF the factory amp is out of the picture, do I still end up with the bass defeat? In other words, can I use the PAC, and adjust the cross over's on the amp to manage where and how my sound comes out? presumably (not ideal) I could use the gain per channel to adjust volume levels. any thoughts? I would be using the CHy-23, which would allow you to take the factory amp out of the picture, and use RCA inputs to the amp. There is a new Alpine 5 channel amp, the MRX v-70, which has a cross over for each channel. By tuning that, I would think you can control the sound image and not have to worry about the factory amp. It will fit in place of the factory amp and has speaker level input. Who really cares about the base, mid and treble control from the head?

Worst case scenario, I spend an extra $55 on the PAC piece and have to pull it out later, put the factory amp back in and get the LC6i.

Is my logic off? am I missing something here?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:10 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by 3TimeOwner View Post
IF the factory amp is out of the picture, do I still end up with the bass defeat? In other words, can I use the PAC, and adjust the cross over's on the amp to manage where and how my sound comes out? presumably (not ideal) I could use the gain per channel to adjust volume levels. any thoughts? I would be using the CHy-23, which would allow you to take the factory amp out of the picture, and use RCA inputs to the amp. There is a new Alpine 5 channel amp, the MRX v-70, which has a cross over for each channel. By tuning that, I would think you can control the sound image and not have to worry about the factory amp. It will fit in place of the factory amp and has speaker level input. Who really cares about the base, mid and treble control from the head?

Worst case scenario, I spend an extra $55 on the PAC piece and have to pull it out later, put the factory amp back in and get the LC6i.

Is my logic off? am I missing something here?
If you connect upstream of the amp, I "think" you lose volume control as well as EQ control. You don't want to use the amp gain to control volume. You may not even be able to get to your amp to touch the gain if it is mounted under the dash or under a seat.

Even if you keep volume control, you have no real EQ control with the exception of bass boost (via sub). You would really want an EQ between the PAC and the amp so you can tweak your high's, mid's, and low's.

You are on the right track, a high quality 5 channel amp is a great fit, but the Jeep set-up is the killer. The same amp with an aftermarket head unit would give you all the control you need.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:26 AM   #79
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yes, but like you stated earlier - screwed either way. If I go with a different head unit (can't even have that conversation with the budget controller ) then I lose the UConnect, and steering interface. The CHY-23 still gives you the volume control, just the EQ is lost. Will look into a cheap EQ. really want to use the factory mounting plate for the new amp. I did c that I can get another amp on to that outside panel. There is open space there with a steel (maybe aluminum) bracket where I could manufacture a mounting plate. Getting it in there would be a b****h, but, I know after a long diatribe of swearing, I could do it. Cost/benefit is the trade out.

Last question for anyone - is the infinity sub speaker capable of handling more power with a punchy bass if the neuter is taken out of the picture? Or, am I looking at the new Rockford Fosgate P2D2-8
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:35 AM   #80
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JL makes a 6 Channel amp that will blow your socks off with just 4 speakers and your sub.

You can bypass all that infinity stuff and leave for someone else.

Just would need:

Deck
6 Channel Amp

That is assuming you already have speakers/sub. I believe the amp will blow stock speakers.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:44 AM   #81
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What would be great is if the CHy-23 could be installed with the factor system still hooked up. (Not sure if it can or can't).

If so, it would be nice to use the CHy-23 as a way to get a flat pre-amp signal to a sub only amp (with remote gain control) mounted under the dash. Upgrade the sub itself, and you would be left with full EQ controls (hopefully) for the dash and bar speakers....powered by the Infinity amp, with separate control over the sub powered by maybe a 150W amp.

But from the instructions, it looks like the factory amp is taken all the way offline with the CHy-23. I don't know if you can keep it online.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:49 AM   #82
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JL makes a 6 Channel amp that will blow your socks off with just 4 speakers and your sub.

You can bypass all that infinity stuff and leave for someone else.

Just would need:

Deck
6 Channel Amp

That is assuming you already have speakers/sub. I believe the amp will blow stock speakers.
Agreed, a new deck opens everything up. A 5, 6, 7, or 8 channel amp (depending on how you power your tweeters and if you rock a DVC sub) hooked up to upgraded speakers will blow the doors off your Jeep...assuming they are not already removed.

But for those with 430n or 730n's, a new deck means a lot of money was wasted. Plus, it becomes a bigger thief magnet.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:31 AM   #83
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yes, but like you stated earlier - screwed either way. If I go with a different head unit (can't even have that conversation with the budget controller ) then I lose the UConnect, and steering interface. The CHY-23 still gives you the volume control, just the EQ is lost. Will look into a cheap EQ. really want to use the factory mounting plate for the new amp. I did c that I can get another amp on to that outside panel. There is open space there with a steel (maybe aluminum) bracket where I could manufacture a mounting plate. Getting it in there would be a b****h, but, I know after a long diatribe of swearing, I could do it. Cost/benefit is the trade out.

Last question for anyone - is the infinity sub speaker capable of handling more power with a punchy bass if the neuter is taken out of the picture? Or, am I looking at the new Rockford Fosgate P2D2-8
I thought I could assume the same thing as far as amp install. Got everything off and after a lot of swearing I've given up. There just isn't quite as much space in there as you might think. I'm using a polk DA4000.4 but it's just a little too big. Something slightly thinner would probably work with similar dimensions though.

I'm going to option 3, I'm mounting my stuff under the seats. Unfortunately, not as stealth and easier to steal
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:39 AM   #84
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(1) Unplug the amp under the dash.

(2) Show "budget controller" radio "doesn't" work.

(3) Install your new gear.

(4) Do this while driving topless!

(5) Leave me out of it if you're caught!
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:44 AM   #85
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Lot's of good thought here. ronrad - it seems the polk's are about 13-15" long, don't see how that would fit in there. It appears to be 10-11, so Alpine seems to be the 5 channel way to go for factory stealth replacement.

I have the 430, so trying to salvage that for the interfaces/factory look and theft prevention. plus, the head itself is what it is, 40G hard drive and whatever. I am looking now at LCI6, a soundstream EQ and the new Alpine amp. That means I use the factory amp, mount the new amp on the sidewall, screw the lci6 and EQ to the AMP. All stealth as it can be, and I don't lose the "facotry" controls on the head unit


Final question still remains on the sub, Infinity good enough once factory neuter out of the mix, or replace with the RF P2D2-8.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #86
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love your thinking Cruise!!!! however, she is a bit smarter than that, and will ask us to get it "fixed" under warranty.
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Old 04-16-2012, 11:51 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by 3TimeOwner View Post
Lot's of good thought here. ronrad - it seems the polk's are about 13-15" long, don't see how that would fit in there. It appears to be 10-11, so Alpine seems to be the 5 channel way to go for factory stealth replacement.

I have the 430, so trying to salvage that for the interfaces/factory look and theft prevention. plus, the head itself is what it is, 40G hard drive and whatever. I am looking now at LCI6, a soundstream EQ and the new Alpine amp. That means I use the factory amp, mount the new amp on the sidewall, screw the lci6 and EQ to the AMP. All stealth as it can be, and I don't lose the "facotry" controls on the head unit


Final question still remains on the sub, Infinity good enough once factory neuter out of the mix, or replace with the RF P2D2-8.
My original thought was to pull the stock amp, and mount the new amp vertically in the same place extending further out and down. Unfortunately, it's a little too thick to squeeze in there. Then I tried in the mounting plate location, but that is definitely a no go. Too long!
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:01 PM   #88
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Lot's of good thought here. ronrad - it seems the polk's are about 13-15" long, don't see how that would fit in there. It appears to be 10-11, so Alpine seems to be the 5 channel way to go for factory stealth replacement.

I have the 430, so trying to salvage that for the interfaces/factory look and theft prevention. plus, the head itself is what it is, 40G hard drive and whatever. I am looking now at LCI6, a soundstream EQ and the new Alpine amp. That means I use the factory amp, mount the new amp on the sidewall, screw the lci6 and EQ to the AMP. All stealth as it can be, and I don't lose the "facotry" controls on the head unit


Final question still remains on the sub, Infinity good enough once factory neuter out of the mix, or replace with the RF P2D2-8.



Take a look at this thread:
Kicker CRV8 in factory subwoofer enclosure install.

Someone (actually two people) were able to install a second amp under the dash to power just the sub.

Also, this sub seems to be pretty popular:
Component Subwoofers at Crutchfield.com

(Link to pics of dual amps)
http://www.jk-forum.com/showthread.p...=1#post2848543
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #89
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I recommend the Kenwood Excelon 8" shallow mount sub if your adding an amp.

Fits with no modification to the housing beyond new screw holes.

Very musical sub. Clean, accurate, and plays deeper than an 8" should.

Dynamat or similar product should be used on the inside of the factory enclosure to tame sympathetic resonances from the plastic.

Stuff with polyfil.

Enjoy.
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Old 04-16-2012, 01:27 PM   #90
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I recommend the Kenwood Excelon 8" shallow mount sub if your adding an amp.

Fits with no modification to the housing beyond new screw holes.

Very musical sub. Clean, accurate, and plays deeper than an 8" should.

Dynamat or similar product should be used on the inside of the factory enclosure to tame sympathetic resonances from the plastic.

Stuff with polyfil.

Enjoy.
Good to know, I picked up that one the other day to upgrade the stocker when my amp goes in, but before I get a chance to build the enclosure for my 10inch ...

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