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winter tires

9K views 64 replies 32 participants last post by  cdeslandes 
#1 ·
How many change out their mud terrain tires for snow tires for the winter months?
 
#5 ·
What he said.
 
#4 ·
Count me as one of those who changes from summer to winter tires; albeit from ATs instead of MTs. Around the first week of October and around the middle of May is when I change over.

Where I live it is not only necessary but also the law. With you being located in Michigan (U.P.?), I would highly recommend dedicated winter tires. Snow is not the problem and some areas in the US get their fair share of wet or dry snow but it either goes away relatively quickly on its own or gets taken away from the roadway by a snow plow, but in areas that experience below freezing temperatures for days a dedicated severe winter rated tire is called for.

Were I to live about 500 miles south of where I do I think I might try running those new BFG AT KO2s year round - but I don't so I won't.

Icy roads are the reality here and and vehicles won't stay on them without a set of good severe winter rated dedicated snow tires; that's also a reality here.

Whether or not to run snow tires is a simple question with a simple answer. Snow is the whitish stuff that one sometimes sees on the road and ice is that invisible stuff that one does not see. If one only gets the occasional white stuff without any accompanying ice then perhaps the marvellously magical Duratracs (or whatever new fad the really cool kids are wearing these days) will be enough for them. If one lives where the roads are icy then something like the Nokian Hakkas are the way to stay safe - in my most sincere humble opinion (rather than the sometimes sarcastically used IMHO).
 
#6 ·
A Swiss Army Knife, from either of the two companies officially authorised to use that name, may well be a nice addition to a Boy Scout's backpack or the pocket of a pair of fashionable cargo pants but it could never compare to a fillet knife for filleting a fine trout or a four inch folder for field dressing a moose. Would a chef choose a Swiss Army Knife to julienne his carrots or turn his potatoes? Would anyone in their right mind try to use one to cut sheetrock or perform an appendectomy? Etc., ad nauseum.

The right tool for the job is always the way to go.

Duratracs, despite the ever-present hype, are a compromise tire; They will work on road, in mud, in dirt, and snow but they will not work as well as a road tire, a mud tire, an AT, a dedicated snow tire in the same conditions.

I am sorry I had to be the one to say it ... and I won't mention the jolly fat guy in the red suit because there may be children here.
 
#8 ·
For those who live in an area where its mandatory or have the "specific tool for the job" belief, how much difference does it really make?

Btw, I agree w the rt tool for the job theory.

But I have driven many a vehicle, lastly a corolla for about 290,000 miles and I gotta drive, no. matter weather, in fact the worse a winter day has been the more I would go out. I got that thing stuck in the middle of a paved road for about 30 seconds, till I took the wheels down to pavement. In all those miles through the worst winter this state has seen any many storms the driver was the biggest influence imo.

Now I am new to a Jeep and I will go off road this winter when it has stormed. I can see a sick day already lol. I'm looking forward to seeing how my mt's work. I feel after driving what I have this will be ridiculously good in the snow. I drove a basic toy truck 4x4 single cab, before the name taco, and it handled awesome in snow in 4x, I never even gave tires a second thought.
 
#9 ·
For those who live in an area where its mandatory or have the "specific tool for the job" belief, how much difference does it really make?

Btw, I agree w the rt tool for the job theory.

But...
You can easily search the web or youtube to answer that question for yourself; alternatively, you could wait for an icy day and ride with someone who has dedicated winter tires on and then drive something without them directly after on the same circuit.
But my answer to your question is a simple and resounding, "Yes, they make all of the difference in the world". Possibly a life saving difference. Possibly the difference between arriving at your destination and not. The difference between a fairly calm drive and a drive with your sphincter continuously going through its full range of motions.

But here are just a couple of video hits I got when I did a google search on the topic; there are many more:

Winter Snow Tires vs All-Season Tires vs Summer Tires testing on Ice - YouTube

New Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 - The most advanced studded tyre in the world! (English) - YouTube

What You Need to Know About Winter Tires - YouTube

Do yourself a favour and take a few minutes to watch these.

... I have driven many a vehicle, lastly a corolla for about 290,000 miles and I gotta drive, no. matter weather, in fact the worse a winter day has been the more I would go out. I got that thing stuck in the middle of a paved road for about 30 seconds, till I took the wheels down to pavement. In all those miles through the worst winter this state has seen any many storms the driver was the biggest influence imo.

Now I am new to a Jeep and I will go off road this winter when it has stormed. I can see a sick day already lol. I'm looking forward to seeing how my mt's work. I feel after driving what I have this will be ridiculously good in the snow. I drove a basic toy truck 4x4 single cab, before the name taco, and it handled awesome in snow in 4x, I never even gave tires a second thought.
I agree that the driver may be the biggest determining factor when driving on icy roads, but one must consider all factors and not just the biggest. A pilot's skill could likely be the biggest factor in a safe flight but the physical condition of the plane, the weather, and the landing strip are also factors of importance. Would you want to go seriously mudding with a set of stock Duellers? They would likely let you down no matter your level of skill at driving in mud.

Your Jeep with MTs will undoubtably be better in snow than a Corolla as well as many other vehicles that you may have driven; but better and good are two different things. An amputated finger due to frost bite would be better than the loss of both feet, but I wouldn't call it good by any definition of the word.

Being good in the snow is not what those of us who run dedicated winter tires are after, rather it is being safe on hard packed snow and ice. So, like I mentioned, in areas that get snow but not prolonged hard packed snow and ice a well made AT tire may (or may not) be fine. In fact something like the Cooper ST Maxx (which are even stud-able) could be a great choice that will also perform well off road in the winter wonderland.

(Along with switching tires between winter and summer I also switch between road and terrain; here's a set of the Coops:)


And here are some Cooper Discoverer M+S on my previous JKU, first in the freshly shovelled drive and also on a fine Saturday morning before shovelling:



The original question was "How many change out their mud terrain tires for snow tires for the winter months?" and I would venture a guess that the number of people that do so is approximately equal to the number of people who drive in areas where the winter road conditions include ice and hard packed snow (minus the number of people who lack good sense).

You wrote that previously you "never even gave tires a second thought" but from your question I had gathered that perhaps now you were giving tires a second thought. That is probably wise of you.

The MTs shouldn't have too much difficulty getting you through 8 inches of freshly fallen snow on a 35 degree F day at low speed; you will likely fare much better than most on the road on such a day. The MTs will not take you safely and where a little two wheel drive car with real winter tires can. They will spin when you accelerate from a stop, they will take much longer to stop, and they will not be anywhere near as safe in cornering.

You buys your ticket you rides the ride.

(In answer to a couple of other anticipated questions; running summer and winter tires is more cost effective than one may think at first glance and swapping tires takes about fifteen whole minutes or less (especially when my wonderful wife assists by taking away and bringing each tire to me and being in charge of appropriate beverages for the given season).

Be Safe. Have Fun.
 
#11 ·
Will be spending my winter between VT and CT, and planning on mounting studded Hakkas on a set on steelies. Would have come in handy after last winter's ice storms.
 
#13 ·
Yes, the Mopar or similar looking cheap steelies.

Will order wheels soon, there's a sale on Nokian around Columbus Day (mid October)

Will post once the set is on.
 
#14 ·
We unfortunately do not have a Columbus Day Sale here but I am considering the Nokian R2 in a 255/75/17 for the next few years. They are quite reasonable at about 200 bucks a pop balanced and mounted. That's the same price as the Cooper Discoverer M+S and the Coopers have worked fine for me, but I may lose a bit of off pavement (but still on dirt roads) capability with the Nokians - but then again maybe not I haven't tried them yet.
 
#16 ·
Why do people seem to think a Jeep is "better" in winter than a car? Because it's 4wd? The majority of accidents in winter are due to sliding, on ice and hardpacked snow. On 90% of days id rather be driving a small fwd car with good snow tires than a Jeep on MT's, the only time the Jeep will come ahead is in deep fresh snow. Otherwise that little car will have far better cornering and braking ability due to.... TIRES. do yourself a favor and get another set for winter use, you will never regret it
 
#20 ·
Totally disagree. Here in PA with the hills and all, it's about traction. It doesn't matter what car you are driving if you drive like an ass and "slide" because you are not in control. That's not the issue. The issue is traction and spinning and getting stuck, at least here. I've driven many time around a FWD car spinning it's front tires on snowy or icy inclined roads in my 4wd trucks. Truth.
 
#17 ·
I have been running winter tires on all my vehicles before it became law here (Quebec, Canada) because it just made sense...for me. Winter tires are made specifically for colder temperatures. If your winters aren't harsh, and the law doesn't require it, then you may be able to get away with non-winters. Me, I prefer my winters.

Luckily, winter tires came with the Jeep when I bought it and should be able to get 2 more seasons out of them. Happy Jeeping!
 
#19 ·
IMO compromising should be thought about, for someone who lives in an area with at least a few months of real winters should not be running MT's as a year round daily driver tire. It's just not worth the compromise that $1500 for another set of tires and rims (or cheaper if you find a used set) can be justified quickly if they save you from 1 ditch or accident. It doesn't take much to cause $1000 worth of damage
 
#26 ·
I find it easier not to argue with people that don't see it... there are endless tests to prove the difference and back up my original statement. It's scientifically proven, if someone has a different opinion than so be it. I'll enjoy my safety and peace of mind knowing I have the proper tires for the conditions
 
#27 ·
I just finished siping all 5 of my KM2 tires. I'm hoping that makes for good driving all winter and will let you all know if it doesn't (I will be doing lots of winter driving in the WNY region as well as the northern-midwest vicinity). So far my son noticed a ride difference immediately on dry roads (before I told him what I did) - to him he felt like the ride was smoother than before. I drove in rain and did some very light 4 wheeling with the siped tires over the weekend without traction issues.
 
#28 ·
I have lived in the snow filled winters of Calgary Alberta all my life. I can't be bothered to put snow tires on 4x4 but MT's do suck in the winter. I use a good AT (year around) with a high snow rating and don't run them bald. I replace before I am down to the wear bars. I have had snow tires on cars and there is a difference but IMO it is small one and not worth the extra expense of a good all season tire. If I found myself ever needing to drive on hockey rink ice all the way to work I would turn around and stay home for the day but in my 31 years of winter driving I can't remember that ever being the case. If winter tires make you feel better have at it but IMO knowing how to drive in winter conditions will get you where you need to go.
 
#30 ·
Just remember the original post which was changing out MT's for the winter months, I agree with you about a good all season being not all THAT much different from dedicated snow tires... I've been running duratracs the last two winters and have been very happy, this year will be a studded set though
 
#31 ·
[ Although I'll never understand how any one could convince themselves that a tire with less traction could be better on ice than a tire with more traction I do understand that there is no point in arguing with them. So I don't

I will, however, continue to try to explain to anyone who didn't know the fact that dedicated severe winter rated tires can save lives and lower towing and collision repair bills on roads that are icy or covered in hard packed snow. At least others who live in areas with those conditions also add their voices -


I have to agree that under the conditions you speak of that a dedicated winter tire is better. And on the very few days that a lot of us other people need them that a GOOD all weather tire is a better investment as long as you're careful. Here in The St Louis, Mo. area that I live in any snow over 4 inches is not common. And it does turn icy quick. But also here the very next day may be in the 40s. I had blizzteks on a all wheel drive vehicle and they were fantastic. All 6 times I needed them. But the rest of the time they sucked. To squishy of a ride, felt terrible on the turns.
For my usage HERE. Not needed.
 
#32 ·
I bought my JKUR last August. I decided I wanted to put Blizzaks on it for the winter months, so went to Costco to order a set. They had the right size, but refused to mount them because the Wrangler is considered by them to be a "truck" and the Blizzaks were passenger car tires. I told them that I planned to use it as a passenger vehicle (note that I killed no kittens here!) during the winter months, not as a truck, but they still refused to mount the tires. I walked away. I ended up leaving the OEM BFGs on the "truck" through the winter and they were pretty good. I am sure that different tire shops would accomodate me, but didn't pursue it further when I discovered the OEMs were doing the job.

Has anyone else run into this issue?
 
#35 ·
Hey Digger - your posts about siping/grooving directly motivated me to do the same with my tires. It took me a long time though, probably about 3.5 hours total to do 5 tires (perhaps even a bit longer). It is not a process you can or will want to rush when doing by hand.
 
#38 ·
^^^Location, location, location. It all depends on where you live. I'm in the Colorado Rockies, 10 minutes from the national park. The last 2.5 miles to my house gains 1,000 feet in elevation on narrow dirt roads. We get heavy snow around the first of December and don't see the bare ground again until June. Even though the roads are plowed, the bottom layers become an ice pack. We have to switch to studded winter tires, (or use chains) during winter and spring. Last winter we pulled 5 vehicles out of the snow banks near the house. All were 4 x 4, all had snow tires, 2 were Jeeps, and none had studs or chains.
 
#39 ·
I just came across a haiku I jotted down last year after my Bimmer got stuck in the driveway...

Car stuck in the snow
Winter tires did not help
Need to get a Jeep





I bought my Jeep in May...
 
#40 ·
I have 305/50/20 Toyo M/S and we have the same Dec-April snow pack with underlying ice. I got an estimate from Les Schwab, a NW tire dealer, for 255/70/17 studded snow tires with new wheels (which I have to buy as well) for $1600.00. Lot's of change, but unwilling to drive with the Toyo's on our NW roads this winter.
 
#41 ·
If all other tires worked as well as snow tires, then you wouldn't need snows.
I'm on the road all the time in all conditions. When it snows enough to keep most vehicles in, you'll find me out enjoying the ride, and sometimes pulling other vehicles out of ditches. And I'll tell you this fact: Of all the vehicles (cars and trucks..even 4wd) NONE OF THEM HAD SNOW TIRES ON THEM.
Driving on good tires of any type, as long as they fit the situation, inspire confidence. Nothing sucks like being on a ride with inadequate tires and hoping that you'll make it.
 
#43 ·
I agree that the Duratracs are a great snow tire. For Ice, they may not be as effective as dedicated ice tires like the Nokians, but If you get the Duratracs Studded, it narrows the gap considerably and make for a GOOD compromise for an all around winter tire.

In November, during Deer season we go from freezing mornings with iced up and sometimes snow covered dirt roads, to afternoons with very warm temps turning those snow/icy roads to slick mushy mud roads. To me, there is no better tire for all those varying conditions than the Duratracs.

It all depends on your intended use. In 3 or 4 years, when I feel the winter usefulness of my studded DTs are questionable, I will sit in my garage with a few beers and a pair of pliers and pull all the studs out and turn my DTs into my summer tires and get another 2 years out of them.
 
#44 ·
Having winter tires doesn't hurt. I drove my Mazda RX-8 through 4 north east ohio winters with Blizzaks. not a problem. That's rear wheel drive without traction control and without stability control on my trim level.
A Jeep with winter tires will always out perform a Jeep not on winter tires. The whole FWD vs 4WD debate is silly. I had a celica that on all seasons plowed through anything. Fantastic car. It doesn't matter WHAT you drive. It's HOW you drive it.
Being a truck driver I see way more AWD and 4WD idiots going too fast and losing control and getting stuck in the median than 2WD. It won't save you. 4WD does nothing when you're braking or cornering. Tires do.

If you have the spare change get some snow tires. Buy a set of cheap 15 inch wheels with Blizzaks. You will be glad you did.
 
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