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Wire or Synthetic Rope on Winch

6K views 42 replies 21 participants last post by  JTPhoto JK 
#1 ·
I'm looking at finally getting my winch for my JK. My question is which rope should I get. Wire or Synthetic? I know it might be preference thing but I'm curious of pros and cons of the two. Thanks
 
#3 ·
Every time I discuss it with the folks at Fortec they state that synthetic is safer but that it will need to be replace every few years due to dry rot. I like the look without the rollers on the front and from what I understand you have to use synthetic rope. Still trying to decide myself as you can tell.
 
#4 ·
Actually wire rope(cable) is suppose to also be changed every couple of years.

Benefits on the trail far outweigh the extra cost.
Safety- key here on the trail is rope snaps.
Use ability. - syn is a lot more user friendly
Trail repAir - a quick tut on syn rope splicing and you can repair (splice) syn rope on the trail with minimal tools in under 10min. And still be able to wind it onto the drum as well as the splice being stronger then the rope itself.
 
#5 ·
I'm leaning towards the Synthetic rope. I've used a wire rope winch before and I hated fighting it to spool up right. And it never failed it would get a kink in it. I know the synthetic isn't as abrasion resistant but I figure if I'm careful with it I should be ok.
 
#6 · (Edited)
I've used both, cable and rope, and find rope a lot more user friendly.

From a safety standpoint, I still have to snap either, but I've heard the stories of cables flying about like sickles looking for a head to chop, while the rope will simply drop to the ground.

I also prefer the look of the hawse over the roller fairlead, and the rope's lighter weight is an added bonus.
 
#7 ·
I also prefer the look of the hawse better than the rollers. I'm thinking about the Warn Zeon 10-S Platinum winch. I can remote mount the solenoids from the top of the winch and then put a cover plate over the top to keep it protected and safe.
 
#13 · (Edited)
Like tents or anything else made of nylon-type synthetics, if exposed to UV radiation for long periods of time it will experience degradation. (Or technically, I should say it experiences UV-degradation uniformly from day one, but if that goes on for a long time it will weaken the rope sufficiently to cause problems.) Manufacturers -- concerned for safety and also very interested in selling $200 ropes every other year to their winch customers -- recommend a two-year cycle for the most part.

I bought a SmittyBilt vinyl cover that was made for my winch and covered the whole thing, like a big bag. It looks like crap, all loose and baggy. So I made a metal one that clips very easily to the rods that join the frame halves together. Covers the rope from all UV exposure. I'll plan to replace in 5 years just for safety's sake. At $200 that works out to three bucks a month for the rope.


(And yes, I see that the protective sleeve has gotten pushed back and is exposing the last 1.5" of rope. Might as well not use the cover at all, cuz it only has to break in one place to be broken. :D)
 
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#14 ·
Our issue up north is not so the UV from the sun but the road salt which is brutal on cable. I am sure it's not that great for Synthetic either but rusty cable is no fun.
As for rope breaking it is actually very easy to splice anyway so not a real concern.
I intend on buying a spare Synthetic rope to keep on hand for self recovery using snatch blocks .. Easier to store then cable.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Good idea. If money's not tight, you might consider going one step further. Buy an ATV winch (4000#), mount on a tray, and use it on the rear or sides, or for a double winch pull (more on that later).





This XRC4000 came with wire, and my all-in cost was just under $200. I've since added a big 2-gauge connector so I can remove the jumper cables from the winch (easier transport and storage), and I replaced the wire with synthetic (about $50, iirc, making an already light winch featherweight.)

I've used it 3 times in the past 18 months on solo trips for pulls that simply needed to be behind me. You know what I'm talking about. Short of the very complex triple-snatch-block-to-your-rear-bumper pull that reverses the Jeep but requires three perfectly placed trees, 3 blocks and a lot of rope, I wasn't going to be able to use my front winch. But hooking this up and pulling backwards is a trivial event, taking maybe 3 minutes longer than using the main winch to pull forward.

You can mount conventionally into the 2" receiver of course. But I've also used it in other locations by simply running a bow shackle through the hole in the tongue that the hitch pin goes through. Then you can hang it off a tow hook, or even a rock slider.

 
#16 ·
I mention this before, I worked for Large Power company here in low-Cal, they did much testing of mainly Improved Plow Steel rope and the Syn. lines. Hands down Syn. prove better and safer than steel. Funny thing the company we get the line from calls it "Blue Steel", we call it yacht braid, same line that as someone above said they use on ships. Yes we were replacing lines every three years but those lines are being used 24/7 365 days a year. The Syn. company even color codes the lines so we can tell right away which need to be changed each year.........
 
#19 ·
I bought a warn Zeon 10-s and don't even come close to regretting it. I wanted synthetic for many reason as are stated above. It's worth it. Go out with some people and winch with both, you will understand. Secondly, I bought a cover for the winch to protect it and the rope from the elements. It's a good inventment.
 
#21 ·
^^ Wow, not sure how it's a big hassle compared to stringing a 3-block rigging, but glad you've already explored that option. :thumb:

For me, it's not either/or -- I carry three blocks and extra line anyway, since they weigh so little. But the little 4k winch is much easier to me than trying to redirect my pull from the front, and doesn't rely on being surrounded by trees. If it won't pull me out, I still have the 9500 up front.

That said, my Jeep weighs about 4000 pounds, so if the ATV winch will actually pull 4000 pounds (and I have no reason to believe it won't), it could actually lift my Jeep vertically from a tree branch. Of course I realize from a safety POV, winches are not hoists. Just saying that the stuck would have to be awfully intense for a 4k to not be able to unstick. In that picture I posted I was in red Georgia clay, obviously up over the exhaust pipes in back, and the front was in deeper. The winch acted like it wasn't even breathing hard.
 
#22 ·
If you are in mud the suction will double your weight. I've been stuck with a 650lb quad that a 2000 Warn struggled to get me out. Ended up using a snatch to double the pull.

My real concern is actually about the strength of the hitch and winch tray. I've seen them get twisted up pretty bad.
 
#23 ·
If you are in mud the suction will double your weight. I've been stuck with a 650lb quad that a 2000 Warn struggled to get me out. Ended up using a snatch to double the pull.
Yes, I know the frictional pull of mud increases the force necessary for an extraction. That's why I posted a picture of my Jeep stuck so deep the exhaust plugged (one side is clear because the exhaust gasses only have to travel out one side or the other of a Magnaflow, so they blew the right side clean). The entire underside was encased in thick, gooey, glop. Thankfully it was a level ground pull so no incline to speak of. But, I pulled it out clean with the 4k winch, standing alongside. In other words, no help from the Jeep's drivetrain.

Look, it's obvious you don't want to go that route -- no problemo whatsoever. I just would hate for someone who might want to pursue this inexpensive, easy adder to their recovery arsenal to decide against it because they thought it's not going to work. It's been a very useful tool for me over the past year and a half. It's pulled me backwards off a high-center on some big rock on a climb; going forward was going to be dicey at best, and there was no clear deadman to hook to. It's pulled me out of the deepest mud I've ever been in. And it's helped me rig a double line from my front bumper to right an overturned truck that needed two winches. All for two hundred bucks and a couple hours rigging it. It weighs maybe 35 pounds all in, so throwing it in back before a run is a trivial event.

No, it would not be a winch I'd rely on exclusively. But it's a great tool to add.

Cheers!
 
#24 ·
re: the 'necessaries' for that 3 snatch block set up have always escaped clarity of explanation...I've watched several youtubes & it seems to work but I keep forgetting the set up.

What I'd appreciate, is some real discussion of the various snatch blocks working with the Synthetic Ropes.

On the one side is the group swearing I need the $140/each flat folders from Warns Treasure Vault, and the other side, a local multigenerational farm/logging trade supplier, who has slightly fatter ones for 4 times the rated load costing $35/each they swear work fine with rope....although they are hot on selling me a steel cable replacement for the rope I've got.

Their REAL market is the logging gear & massive working load rigging shop stuff.

I like the extra 4000# winch set up.

NoGaBiker: can you show a photo of the contents of your rigging bag and/or discuss the bits & pieces?
 
#26 ·
There are pre made kits available from both warn and SB with 24' of cable, power switch and Quick disconnects. When I had my rear winch set up I used the cable more like an extension cord rather then permanently running it under or through the Jeep.

As for pulleys. 2 - 20,000lb ($30) pulleys like SB and on heavy 40,000lb+ like ARB will work just fine. The heavier pulley is required at the rear of the vehicle because it pulls double weight.
3 tree straps are required and a couple D rings.
Total cost about $250, add another $150-200 if you chose to carry an extra 100' of syn winch rope.

Rear mount kit with cable and cradle will run around $400. + whatever winch you decide to mount up.

Each to his own on this one.
 
#31 ·
There are pre made kits available from both warn and SB with 24' of cable, power switch and Quick disconnects. When I had my rear winch set up I used the cable more like an extension cord rather then permanently running it under or through the Jeep.
I didn't realize this or I'd probably have bought one. Crimping the quick connectors for 2-gauge was a massive pain in the ass.

As for pulleys. 2 - 20,000lb ($30) pulleys like SB and on heavy 40,000lb+ like ARB will work just fine. The heavier pulley is required at the rear of the vehicle because it pulls double weight.
3 tree straps are required and a couple D rings.
Total cost about $250, add another $150-200 if you chose to carry an extra 100' of syn winch rope.

Rear mount kit with cable and cradle will run around $400. + whatever winch you decide to mount up.

Each to his own on this one.
Agree on the proper pulley collection. Slight correction on cost. I just looked back at my original thread and the XRC4 was $169 delivered, the tray was $51 delivered (both on Amazon), and I had the jumper cables lying around, so add $25 for a 20' pair if needed. Connectors were $15. So $260 if you're buying cables, or at least that was the cost last year.

The synthetic was fairly cheap, because it's only sized for a 4k winch. I added it this spring, for I wanna say $40. But of course, that's totally optional and only serves to reduce weight when lifting from the back of Jeep to the receiver.
 
#28 ·
Since this thread is here, mind if I pose a query?

I am getting a brand new in box engo e9000 winch from a friend who didn't end up using it. It comes with a wire rope. I am wondering if I can safely replace the wire rope with a synthetic line?

I have heard that certain winches use a drum brake that's under the spool. I read that the drum brake creates a good deal of heat and could possibly damage a synthetic line. I don't know anything about that winch so... Any ideas?
 
#29 ·
Since this thread is here, mind if I pose a query? I am getting a brand new in box engo e9000 winch from a friend who didn't end up using it. It comes with a wire rope. I am wondering if I can safely replace the wire rope with a synthetic line? I have heard that certain winches use a drum brake that's under the spool. I read that the drum brake creates a good deal of heat and could possibly damage a synthetic line. I don't know anything about that winch so... Any ideas?
I just bought an Engo E9000 as well. It hasn't been delivered yet. My thought is to beat it to hell and put it to the test and if I break it then I'll upgrade probably to a Warn. But if it holds up to everything I put it through then I'll know I have a good winch. I've heard very good things about Engo and I'm guessing it will do great.
 
#32 ·
Hey JTPhoto -- not meaning this confrontationally at all; just want to hear your experience if you've executed a reverse pull yet. Have you had occasion to utilize this in the wild since you started carrying the rope and blocks? Or if not, have you rigged a practice pull to test the theory. I've only watched videos of it and haven't used in practice or even tested it in the yard.

Thanks.
 
#33 ·
Hey JTPhoto -- not meaning this confrontationally at all; just want to hear your experience if you've executed a reverse pull yet. Have you had occasion to utilize this in the wild since you started carrying the rope and blocks? Or if not, have you rigged a practice pull to test the theory. I've only watched videos of it and haven't used in practice or even tested it in the yard. Thanks.
Yes have done the reverse pull, very cool. There is a video from an Australia fella with a black Rubicon that shows it best. We will actually be putting on a winching clinic in the spring with the club. Too many winches in our club and not too much experience.

Wow you got some decent prices. The winch cradle I have was $120. The cable kit was $180.as for the quick disconnects they came with the cable kit but I also found them at Fleet and Farm. They were clamp together rather then crimp.
 
#34 ·
Go synthetic.

I have an Engo 9000S, had an issue trying to pull a tree, the line wouldn't come back in. Lucky for me, this was in my back yard and not on a trail somewhere. Oddly enough, I had already used it 5 or 6 times on the trail with no issues, and I ended up picking up the small tree and moving it by hand.

Called Engo and they knew about the problem and had corrected it on new winches already, guess I got an early model?

Engo hooked me up with a replacement part in 3 days, walked me through installing it over the phone, and even left the steel line on the roller they sent me. Customer service the way it should be.

This winch has pulled a bunch of people out of various situations and the last time was a pretty big Cherokee who was pulling boatloads of mud out with him. Once I got him close enough, I used a snatch block, but the winch never faltered. Well worth the money.

I do like NoGaBikers idea for the rear, but I never go out alone so not sure I need it.
 
#36 ·
I do like NoGaBikers idea for the rear, but I never go out alone so not sure I need it.
Maybe if you had one you could correct this severe flaw in your character. :D

LOL, I wind up running alone about half the time, simply because I can't get any joiners from the small group of wheelers who can stand my company for any length of time.
 
#40 ·
There were some good questions posted that didn't seem to get answered.
Just real quick, two things I've learned using synthetic rope.
1). It doesn't try to stay round, unless it is under a lot of tension. It will trap and tear if caught between the pulley and plate of a snatch block. If tension on the spool varies too much, it will trap the rope, and it is a freakin' nightmare to get that trapped coil out.
2). Drum heat is caused by winching out under power (against the brake). Don't do this unless necessary, and only do it for as short of a time as possible. This is true no matter which style of rope is on the winch.

Most common winching involves a vehicle that is under it's own power, so winch tension varies wildly, and extremely quick. This is where the trouble comes in.
Rope goes slack, catches under/between something then goes tight again.
:eek: Aaaaccckk!

I find that I need to concentrate more, and be faster on the switches with the synthetic rope. Wire rope is much more forgiving in this area. It's also way more vocal.
Where synthetic rope whispers to you, then laughs hysterically when you screw up, Wire rope is like a micro manager constantly telling you what is going on, and what to do before you need to do it.
Hth,
 
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