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Old 12-05-2011, 03:06 PM   #1
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Angry Would be 5th time jeep owner frustrated & ready to go land cruising

Hi, I am a newbie to this forum (truth b told - never used ANY forum before) and hope I am posting correctly and in the right place...I am ready to purchase what I hoped would be my 5th jeep/3rd wrangler. Currently I have an 09 sahara unlimited and was looking to upgrade to the 2012 version of the same after the great reviews on the new engine and the great new look with available body color hardtop.

My problem began when I first visited the Jeep website to get up to speed on the various packages and options as well as the pricing of these features. To begin with I started on the Wrangler page and chose the models link at the top of the page. It showed the line-up of the wrangler models side-by-side and as you scroll over each model it gives you a brief summary of what is included on the particular model....Scrolling over the Sahara Unlimited (the model i want) it states that the 2012 Wrangler Unlimited Sahara MSRP starting at $30,445 includes everything on Sport S, Plus: -5-speed Automatic Transmission; -Freedom Top Hardtop; -Power Locks and Windows; -Cruise Control...However when you go to build your own, the hardtop and auto trans are optional only. Furthermore, to add the black hardtop the price increase is $735 and then there is the option "duo top group" which is $1625....when I questioned a local dealer he informed me that if I want both the soft and black hard top I must choose the duo option- how is this the case and Why? First of all that would imply the truck does not come with ANY top...secondly the Jeep site states "everything on Sport S, plus...Freedom Top Hardtop" so that tells me both of those tops should come standard...COULD NOT GET AN EXPLANATION...The invoices attached to every Sahara Unlimited I've looked list at least the Sunrider soft top as standard equipment so again HOW OR WHY IS IT NECESSARY TO PAY $1625 TO RECEIVE 2 TOPS THAT ACCORDING TO THE WEBSITE SHOULD BE STANDARD ON THAT MODEL?????

To take it a step further...in my case I want the body color hard top...that is an additional $1715 add-on on the "Build My Own" category of the Jeep site. But if I want that option AND the sunrider soft top I have to choose the Duo Top option as well which is $1625 which then drops the body color hard top price to $980 for a total cost of $2605 for both tops. This is where it gets almost too crazy to wrap my head around...the details for each one of these options say the same thing "DELETE sunrider soft top; freedom panel storage bag; rear windo defroster; rear window wiper/washer.

Choosing the $735 Freedom top hardtop details imply that it is replacing the sunrider soft top included under standard equipment on the invoice at the additional cost.

Choosing the Body Color Hardtop for &1715 details also state delete the sunrider soft top...

Choosing the "Duo Top" at $1625 details- "Black 3-piece hard top; Delete Sunrider Soft top..." implies that you are now being charged $890 for a soft top replacing the one deleting from the standard equip.

Given ALL that, choosing the duo top option under either scenerio increases the cost of the vehicle $890, then why does the base price of the vehicle not drop by that same amount if you choose either hard top in of itself. The truck must come with SOME TOP... In my case since the Jeep website says the Sahara Unlimited comes "with everything on the Sport S, plus the freedom top hard top...." we know the Sport S comes with the sunrider soft top and we now know invoice price for both tops is $1625, it should then stand to reason, if I opt for the body color hard top option only, I should be CREDITED the $1625 from the cost making the body color ht $90. Or some one please explain what top I am getting for the base price or why opting for either optional ht deletes the soft top with out credit and why the it states the Sahara Unlimited includes this as standard when in fact that isn't the case...

I apologize for the lengthy thread especially as my first, however this is the first of several frustrating and confusing discrepancies encountered in my quest for a new jeep. Instead of being an exiciting and happy experience I feel as if I am falling victim to some deceptive practice by either/both Jeep and/or their the dealers...the other issues I will post separately in subsequent threads in the very near future involve the automatic transmission which is also stated as standard on the Sahara Unlimited as well as the invoicing methods I have encountered regarding the stereo packages and connectivity charges...I don't know if these things are intentional, some sort of oversight or what but as a consumer to be left to wonder if i am being overcharged or why some identical options are being invoiced at one price at Dealer "A" and another price at Dealer "B" if there isn't something intentionally deceptive going on in Jeep World these days. Either way it is a bitter pill to swallow and I am beginning wonder if my loyalty is perhaps misplaced...just saying.

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Old 12-05-2011, 07:53 PM   #2
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You got me curious so I tried it out and sure enough they got it wrong. Then I poked around a little more and went back there and it was correct. Said:
Includes Everything on Sport S, Plus:
Power Locks and Windows
Body-Color Fender Flares
Deep Tint Sunscreen Glass
18-Inch Satin Silver Painted Wheels

No idea what's up but I doubt Jeep knows they have a bug. The build your own should be correct or the dealer can build it. Check out the 2012 wrangler info thread at the top of the forum and if your dealer is not working with you give Pat a call.

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Old 12-05-2011, 08:50 PM   #3
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It's not that difficult to understand. The soft top is standard and the hard top is optional. When you order an option it deletes the like standard. If you order an automatic transmission as opposed to the standard manual, you don't get two transmissions.

The factory hard top is about $2400. The hard tops lists for $735 because that is the difference between the two. If you want both, you have to order the dual top option.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:59 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
If you order an auomatic transmission as opposed to the standard manual, you don't get two transmissions.
Well, when you put it like that....
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:11 PM   #5
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Well, when you put it like that....
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Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
It's not that difficult to understand. The soft top is standard and the hard top is optional. When you order an option it deletes the like standard. If you order an automatic transmission as opposed to the standard manual, you don't get two transmissions.

The factory hard top is about $2400. The hard tops lists for $735 because that is the difference between the two. If you want both, you have to order the dual top option.
When are they going to offer a dual transmission group?
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:35 PM   #6
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Dang Tom, you made that sound so easy. Yes very confusing but if you study it enough, you'll see that what daggo is saying is what it is.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:05 AM   #7
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Not so quick...

Quote:
It's not that difficult to understand. The soft top is standard and the hard top is optional. When you order an option it deletes the like standard. If you order an automatic transmission as opposed to the standard manual, you don't get two transmissions.

The factory hard top is about $2400. The hard tops lists for $735 because that is the difference between the two. If you want both, you have to order the dual top option.
daggo66

I'm sorry I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this math. First of all if the factory hard top is $2400...than how is it possible that the dual top option is $1625? Which factory hard top are you referring to? let's take it one option at a time. Assuming that the soft top is the standard. When you go to the build it page - Jeep - Build My Own - Options
& you click on the +next to Exterior...you will see a drop down of options, the last being the black 3-piece hard top for $735. Clicking on that you add $735 to the base price. Then, under packages you see the option for the dual top for $1625. Clicking on that as well, will then add an additional $890 to the price. First of all assuming the soft top is standard, under this scenario (and in keeping with your answer), correct me if I'm wrong, it stands to reason the price of the black hard top is actually $1625 and replacing the standard with the option (the black 3 piece hard top deleting the sun rider soft top) is $735 because the soft top cost or allowance if you will, is $890, for a total of 1625 for both.

Now, lets start again. Only this time don't click on the dual top option itself, but rather the gold details link....the text reads:

Dual Top Group: Freedom Top® 3-piece modular hard top, rear window defroster, rear window wiper / washer, easy-folding soft top.

Black 3-Piece Hard Top
Delete Sunrider Soft Top
Freedom Panel Storage Bag
Rear Window Defroster
Rear Window Wiper / Washer

If you click on the details link under either of the Hard top options themselves the text reads:

Delete Sunrider Soft Top
Freedom Panel Storage Bag
Rear Window Defroster
Rear Window Wiper / Washer

See my confusion? Wait it gets worse...go to
Jeep - Compare Vehicle and Model Specifications - Highlights
Roll your mouse over the Sahara Unlimited and you will see the following text:

2012 WRANGLER UNLIMITED SAHARA
MSRP* STARTING AT $30,445 16 CITY / 21 HWY MPG[1]
Includes Everything on Sport S, Plus:
5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Freedom Top® Hardtop
Power Locks and Windows
Cruise Control

I actually had one salesman, when asked what upgrades the Unlimited Sahara offers above that of The Sport, tell me the Black 3-piece hardtop amongst other things but when I pointed out that every Unlimited Sahara on his lot with a hardtop had a $1625 optional dual top charge he could offer me no explanation but then proceeded to tell me that the Dual Top Group included "included soft doors used with the sunrider soft top which replaced the full metal doors when removed along with the hard top". ....Really??? Of course he couldn't show me any examples of this soft-door soft-top or pricing literature but did inform me that it was in boxes "upstairs" and when I BUY the vehicle he'll get them down and SHOW me...as if I would seal a deal with someone who is just gonna throw shit at me & see what sticks?? Not happening.

Now, my biggest dilemma is trying to get an answer (that makes sense or explains) as to exactly what is standard on what model or what justifies the $3,000 higher price tag of the Sahara over the Sport S or the $7,000 difference between the Arctic and the Sport S/ $4,000 >Sahara (all unlimited's).

Now go back to:
Jeep - Compare Vehicle and Model Specifications - Highlights
Roll over the Arctic Edition unlimited. It's base price is $4,000 higher than the Sahara...if you roll over it with your mouse you will see it comes with the Body Color hard top standard....click on the "discover more features" and it will bring to a page in which you can compare the various model's features by using the drop down box at the top of each column. If you compare the Sport S, The Sahara and the Arctic (unlimited) there doesn't seem to be a significant difference to justify the base increase between the sport s and the sahara in comparison to the Sahara and the Arctic. Scroll down and view the comparison...you will notice that the Arctic offers BOTH the BODY COLOR hard top AND the Sunrider Soft top are STANDARD. Now click on Build your own at the bottom of the column. It should bring you to the address below
Jeep - Build My Own - Select Model
Notice on the left side of the page it states the Arctic includes in its base price everything in the Sahara PLUS, ...the 1st feature it lists is the BODY COLOR TOP GROUP...Go to the right side of the page and click on the Arctic model...make selections to get to the options tab. Drop down "EXTERIOR" options and you see Body color 3 pc Hard Top $980. Drop down "PACKAGES" options you'll see Dual Top Group. There are no conflicts clicking either or both separately or together in the ability to add the option or in at the prices as is.

I don't understand why you would have the option to add these options to the build and increase the vehicle invoice similarly when these are clearly listed as standard for the Arctic. Furthermore, why is it that if you were to actually NEED to order this way, while it is the same $980 for the Body Color HT in either the Sahara or Arctic, it is only $890 for the Dual top group as opposed to the $1625 in the Sahara build?

Coincidently, the Body Color HT and the Dual Top Gr in the Arctic Model are priced 980/890 respectively, while, the Body Color HT and the Dual Top Group for the Sahara is priced 1715/1625 respectively... which is a cost difference of $90 between the two option choices in both models despite the option prices differing for each model?????

Despite both models being unlimited's the cost basis for the body color dual top group is $2605/1870 - Sahara/Arctic respectively. Which is a difference of $735... the price of the black hard top option when deleting the stnandard soft top....Explain how that adds up. And why are those options listed for available upgrades when it is clearly indicated that BOTH are standard equipment in the vehicle description of the Arctic model?

Finally comparing the transmission and the hard/soft top option, replacing standard options, is like comparing apples to oranges because the top feature is the only item which it is ACTUALLY POSSIBLE AND PROBABLE that you would want and are ABLE to have BOTH options...therefore, I don't necessarily agree that it would be automatically assumed, as in the case of transmissions , tires or similar equipment that the Option would replace the Standard rather than be in addition to it, since it is actually possible to.....just saying...Lia
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:23 AM   #8
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When are they going to offer a dual transmission group?

NOOOO...PLEEAASSE!!! NOT FUNNY - I THINK I'M ABOUT TO SPONTANEOUS SELF COMBUST ALREADY!!!! Haaahaaaaa
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:46 AM   #9
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Take a look at the 2012 deals Pat has going on in the vendor section and give him a call. If he can't walk you through it...

Hang in there and good luck!
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:13 AM   #10
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It just might be easier to find a good used one and build!
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:25 AM   #11
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Take a look at the 2012 deals Pat has going on in the vendor section and give him a call. If he can't walk you through it...

Hang in there and good luck!
I definitely will do! Stay tuned!
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:53 AM   #12
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@ hotdog - I am going to admit to not having completely read through your posts nor have I gone to the website to test the "vehicle build" feature but I can explain to you how the top options are supposed to work regardless of what the website says. Truth be told Chrysler has been having software problems lately...when I went into the VOTS (vehicle order tracking system) to check the status on my Rubi it said that the model I ordered was a Call of Duty MW3 edition when in fact it was a 2 door Rubicon. A quick call to Jeep customer service confirmed that my order was correct and the website had a glitch. So case in point don't let the stupid website confuse you or discourage you from buying a product that you will get much enjoyment from. Just don't buy a yota...youll probably regret it later on.

Daggo is correct in that the softtop is included as a standard feature. As far as doors are concerned, the full hard doors are standard with the option to switch to half doors at no charge. If you order the dual top group you must choose the full hard doors. The standard black hard top is $735 and choosing this option deletes the softtop but it doesn't give you credit for the softtop on the price of the jeep. If you choose the dual top group you pay the $1625 which is equivalent to paying for the price of the softtop at $890 and the hardtop at $735...basically the whole thing to realize is that its like jeep is giving you the softtop for free as the standard option but I suppose if you are a pessimist you can look at it as if you purchase the dual top group you are "paying for the softtop twice". There is no such option for soft doors available from the factory. I am not all that familiar with how the body colored hardtop fits into the dual top group and how it alters the pricing so im not going to comment.

Here is the other thing to think about, in any of the option scenarios that you order from the factory you are getting the Freedom hardtop and the Sunrider softtop at a pretty discounted rate because if you purchased one from Mopar after you bought the Jeep it would cost you a cool $2400 for a primed unpainted hard top or $2900 for a prepainted one. The sunrider soft top would cost you $1395

Jeep Wrangler Accessories - The Official Jeep Parts and Accessory eStore offered by Chrysler
(Look under heading Tops > Soft top > Hard top)

Assuming you just bought the standard jeep with the free softtop you would essentially have $2900 into tops by the time you got both. If you bought the hardtop from the factory at $735 it would cost you an additional $1395 to get the factory Mopar sunrider softtop which would put you at about $2130 into tops. If you bought the dual top group at $1695 you would be saving money unless you planned to buy an aftermarket softtop which you could probably get for around $800 or find a used Sunrider that someone is selling at a discounted rate.

IMO your best bet would be to buy the factory black hardtop at $735 and look at picking up an aftermarket softtop later on for $800 or less. If you absolutely need the body colored hardtop its probably going to cost you more.


Happy Jeeping,
Shawn
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:06 AM   #13
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Like RedRubi said, you have to look at it in a realistic way. The MOPAR freedom hardtop for the JKU's on quadratec list for $2299.99. So yeah, when you select the hardtop option, you are giving up your soft top and paying an additional $735 or whatever it is to get the black hardtop only. You want both... $1695, and for that price it's a steal considering how much more you will be out of pocket to do it later. The color matched hardtop, yeah that's even more as I'm sure they're not just going to run 3000 hardtops through the paint booth when they happen to be spraying Dozer or Gecko on the hope that people "might" buy them. The black hardtop suits 98% of the hardtop wanting customers needs and extra colored hardtops would cost Chrysler more in storage fees or wasted materials.

The other thing I have to say is stop trusting the internet so much. The internet is a great place to get an idea, an estimate or to just screw around, it is not a written bond that cannot be broken. Jeep is in the business of making vehicles, not designing websites. There are probably dozens of lies that website will tell you. Heck there are thousands of websites that tell me that I can "naturally enhance my... ummm self". Did I go and drive myself crazy over something that didn't happen when the website promised me it would? Only for like a second, then I cried myself to sleep, but by the time I woke up... I was FINE.

Find yourself an intelligent sales person and get the full nitty gritty. Like others have said, talk to Pat if there is nobody you can find or trust in your neck of the woods. He'll drop some knowledge on you.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:28 AM   #14
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Like RedRubi said, you have to look at it in a realistic way. The MOPAR freedom hardtop for the JKU's on quadratec list for $2299.99. So yeah, when you select the hardtop option, you are giving up your soft top and paying an additional $735 or whatever it is to get the black hardtop only. You want both... $1695, and for that price it's a steal considering how much more you will be out of pocket to do it later. The color matched hardtop, yeah that's even more as I'm sure they're not just going to run 3000 hardtops through the paint booth when they happen to be spraying Dozer or Gecko on the hope that people "might" buy them. The black hardtop suits 98% of the hardtop wanting customers needs and extra colored hardtops would cost Chrysler more in storage fees or wasted materials.

The other thing I have to say is stop trusting the internet so much. The internet is a great place to get an idea, an estimate or to just screw around, it is not a written bond that cannot be broken. Jeep is in the business of making vehicles, not designing websites. There are probably dozens of lies that website will tell you. Heck there are thousands of websites that tell me that I can "naturally enhance my... ummm self". Did I go and drive myself crazy over something that didn't happen when the website promised me it would? Only for like a second, then I cried myself to sleep, but by the time I woke up... I was FINE.

Find yourself an intelligent sales person and get the full nitty gritty. Like others have said, talk to Pat if there is nobody you can find or trust in your neck of the woods. He'll drop some knowledge on you.
LOL...dang it so Ill have to find another way to enhance myself afterall...wait a minute, I already did by ordering a 2012 Rubi
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:30 AM   #15
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I don't see it as that difficult. The soft top is standard. It gets deleted if you order the Freedom hard top only. If you want both tops you order Duo (2) tops; soft top and hard (Freedom top). If Chrysler said two instead of duo then maybe it might be less confusing to some. So, you can get both or just the soft top or just the hard top, but you have to get A top and the soft is what you get standard. You're paying for A top regardless. You actually get a bit of a discount if you order both. You save even more if you only want a hard top. Body colored tops cost more. Or, you can get the hard top and order a soft top aftermarket, or, you can get the standard soft top and order a hard top aftermarket. If something on the web site happens to be inaccurate there is a disclaimer; basically see your dealer for details. If the sales person isn't familiar with the product that's a separate issue. What's deceptive? If you purchased 5 Jeeps, 3 Wranglers before you're not new to dealing with a dealership unless you bought them all used from a private seller. Pick a top, buy the JK and be happy.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:32 AM   #16
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Dang Tom, you made that sound so easy. Yes very confusing but if you study it enough, you'll see that what daggo is saying is what it is.
I've been able to refine it since I explained it to you.

Some people just over analyze and out think themselves. The numbers I used were examples and not actual prices. The dealer added a hard top to my Jeep at the dealership and added $2200 or $2400 or something like that. It doesn't matter the actual number, it was just for illustrative purposes. I had them keep their hard top. Not only did I not want it, but it was from a Sahara so it didn't even match,
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Old 12-06-2011, 11:46 AM   #17
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The dual top option for $1,650 should be for the PAINTED hard top + a soft top. Do the math & you will find that with the dual top option they give you a mopar soft top for $900 versus $1,500+shipping if you buy the mopar soft top online.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:15 PM   #18
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Hotdog: You write way, way too much. I haven't read it all, but I can see you're getting hung up on the pricing options for the dual top versus soft top versus hard top.

Wranglers come stock with a soft top. If you don't do anything from an option standpoint, you get a soft top.

So, I think what's being reflected on the website when you order just a hard top is that the stock soft top is "deleted," and the hard top is added. You get just a hard top.

Similarly, when you order the "dual top group," the website "deletes" the stock soft top that would have come with your jeep but then adds back the "dual" group, which includes both a hard and a soft top. You get one of each.

Other variations you are seeing are either because you're misunderstanding the pricing or website, or you're seeing changes based on whether the hard top is colored or for a 4 door versus a 2 door.

Believe us, it makes sense. The top options are all fixed prices, and the system isn't set up to try and double charge you or some such thing.
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:41 PM   #19
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^ That all sounds familiar. Where have I heard it before?
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:07 PM   #20
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^ That all sounds familiar. Where have I heard it before?
I'm thinking Post #3 . . .

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Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
The soft top is standard and the hard top is optional. When you order an option it deletes the like standard. . . . .

The factory hard top is about $2400. The hard tops lists for $735 because that is the difference between the two. If you want both, you have to order the dual top option.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:30 PM   #21
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MTH: "Hotdog: You write way, way too much. I haven't read it all, but I can see you're getting hung up on the pricing options for the dual top versus soft top versus hard top.

Wranglers come stock with a soft top. If you don't do anything from an option standpoint, you get a soft top.

So, I think what's being reflected on the website when you order just a hard top is that the stock soft top is "deleted," and the hard top is added. You get just a hard top.

Similarly, when you order the "dual top group," the website "deletes" the stock soft top that would have come with your jeep but then adds back the "dual" group, which includes both a hard and a soft top. You get one of each.

Other variations you are seeing are either because you're misunderstanding the pricing or website, or you're seeing changes based on whether the hard top is colored or for a 4 door versus a 2 door.

Believe us, it makes sense. The top options are all fixed prices, and the system isn't set up to try and double charge you or some such thing."
Noooo. I am hung up on the invoicing...without a full understanding of pricing you wouldn't understand...I get that my posts are lengthy...there is NO simple way to reveal what I have found...It isn't just for MY sake- EVERYONE should be aware of the pricing/invoicing issues I have encountered and the fact that the same vehicle with the same features can theoretically be different prices due to the way they are invoiced. I am living it dude. Check it out for yourself...Finding an Unlimited invoiced correctly on a dealer lot depending on options is a tall order! What is standard (hardtop/auto trans) on Unlimited Sahara's in questionable as well..
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:37 PM   #22
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You're right. It's the people outside of the asylum who are crazy. Have you ever considered the difference in frame height between a TJ and a JK?
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:39 PM   #23
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I'm thinking Post #3 . . .
GOT IT... That isn't the point...I understand the wordage now perhaps you need to digest the bigger picture of my message and get hung up on my confusion over WORDAGE...
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:48 PM   #24
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Noooo. I am hung up on the invoicing...without a full understanding of pricing you wouldn't understand...I get that my posts are lengthy...there is NO simple way to reveal what I have found...It isn't just for MY sake- EVERYONE should be aware of the pricing/invoicing issues I have encountered and the fact that the same vehicle with the same features can theoretically be different prices due to the way they are invoiced. I am living it dude. Check it out for yourself...Finding an Unlimited invoiced correctly on a dealer lot depending on options is a tall order! What is standard (hardtop/auto trans) on Unlimited Sahara's in questionable as well..
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GOT IT... That isn't the point...I understand the wordage now perhaps you need to digest the bigger picture of my message and get hung up on my confusion over WORDAGE...
I think you're just misunderstanding what you're reading. But let's set that aside for a minute.

We clearly aren't quite grasping what it is you believe you've unconvered. But a picture is worth a 1000 words, so how about this. Head over to the dealerships where the invoices are wrong, take pictures of the invoices, and post those here. Or even better, send the dealers an email and ask for them to send you PDFs of the invoices, and post those here.

Point to the issues you think are misstated, inconsistent, or otherwise improper and see if we can all then either explain the issue away or at least better grasp what you're contending.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:52 PM   #25
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Hotdog: You write way, way too much. I haven't read it all, but I can see you're getting hung up on the pricing options for the dual top versus soft top versus hard top.

Wranglers come stock with a soft top. If you don't do anything from an option standpoint, you get a soft top.

So, I think what's being reflected on the website when you order just a hard top is that the stock soft top is "deleted," and the hard top is added. You get just a hard top.

Similarly, when you order the "dual top group," the website "deletes" the stock soft top that would have come with your jeep but then adds back the "dual" group, which includes both a hard and a soft top. You get one of each.

Other variations you are seeing are either because you're misunderstanding the pricing or website, or you're seeing changes based on whether the hard top is colored or for a 4 door versus a 2 door.

Believe us, it makes sense. The top options are all fixed prices, and the system isn't set up to try and double charge you or some such thing.
Dude...I'm not confusing anything. Ok. Obviously, I am dealing with a bunch of know it alls here. Initially I did not have a full comprehension of the fact that choosing the hard top option replaced the standard soft top as is the case when choosing the auto trans vs. the manual. Obviously, in the case of the trans., you can't have two...however, since it is possible to have two tops, i didn't realize adding a HT automatically replaced the soft top...I UNDERSTAND THAT IS THE CASE NOW...that isn't/wasn't the FOCUS of my concern
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:54 PM   #26
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I think you're just misunderstanding what you're reading. But let's set that aside for a minute.

We clearly aren't quite grasping what it is you believe you've unconvered. But a picture is worth a 1000 words, so how about this. Head over to the dealerships where the invoices are wrong, take pictures of the invoices, and post those here. Or even better, send the dealers an email and ask for them to send you PDFs of the invoices, and post those here.

Point to the issues you think are misstated, inconsistent, or otherwise improper and see if we can all then either explain the issue away or at least better grasp what you're contending.
Why waste my time with you...
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:56 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MTH View Post
I think you're just misunderstanding what you're reading. But let's set that aside for a minute.

We clearly aren't quite grasping what it is you believe you've unconvered. But a picture is worth a 1000 words, so how about this. Head over to the dealerships where the invoices are wrong, take pictures of the invoices, and post those here. Or even better, send the dealers an email and ask for them to send you PDFs of the invoices, and post those here.

Point to the issues you think are misstated, inconsistent, or otherwise improper and see if we can all then either explain the issue away or at least better grasp what you're contending.
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Why waste my time with you...
Huh? Why isn't that a good idea? Folks here are confused about what you're arguing, but you've said that it's reflected on the invoices and perhaps other paperwork. Why not just post the paperwork, point to the issue, and see if we can explain it? There have been many posts here where folks post window stickers or build sheets asking for explanations.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:12 PM   #28
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:35 PM   #29
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Huh? Why isn't that a good idea? Folks here are confused about what you're arguing, but you've said that it's reflected on the invoices and perhaps other paperwork. Why not just post the paperwork, point to the issue, and see if we can explain it? There have been many posts here where folks post window stickers or build sheets asking for explanations.
.go to
Jeep - Compare Vehicle and Model Specifications - Highlights
Roll your mouse over the Sahara Unlimited and you will see the following text:

2012 WRANGLER UNLIMITED SAHARA
MSRP* STARTING AT $30,445 16 CITY / 21 HWY MPG[1]
Includes Everything on Sport S, Plus:
5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Freedom Top® Hardtop
Power Locks and Windows
Cruise Control

To begin with the Sahara is supposed to come with the hard top see for your self
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:41 PM   #30
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.go to
Jeep - Compare Vehicle and Model Specifications - Highlights
Roll your mouse over the Sahara Unlimited and you will see the following text:

2012 WRANGLER UNLIMITED SAHARA
MSRP* STARTING AT $30,445 16 CITY / 21 HWY MPG[1]
Includes Everything on Sport S, Plus:
5-Speed Automatic Transmission
Freedom Top® Hardtop
Power Locks and Windows
Cruise Control

To begin with the Sahara is supposed to come with the hard top see for your self
It's an online typo by the marketing folks that design the website, which has had its share of typos in the past. None of the Wranglers come with the hard top. The way the hard/soft/dual tops are explained in this thread is how they come on all models, as more accurately reflected (though not always perfect) in the "Build Your Own" section. The only caveat is that the body color top is only available with the Sahara/Arctic. Same thing with the transmission--the auto isn't included in the Sahara. My dad had a 2010 Sahara with a manual trans.

Basically, the website is "for information only." Window stickers and especially build sheets are what you need to be reviewing.

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