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Old 03-28-2012, 03:31 PM   #1
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Wrangler Weight Loss

Hey All!

I just took my hard top off, and i can completely feel the difference in from the weight loss.

Please post any suggestions for other ways to drop weight.

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Old 03-28-2012, 03:38 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PieFace
Hey All!

I just took my hard top off, and i can completely feel the difference in from the weight loss.

Please post any suggestions for other ways to drop weight.
If you don't off road you can drop the skid plates. That'll lose some weight. You can get rid of your spare tire and if you don't use your rear seat you can get rid of that too

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Old 03-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #3
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Get rid of wife/kids/dogs/eat salad only/run 5 gal gas/lay windshield down-OR

----------------FAGETABOUTIT-------------------------

Any weight savings will have NO APPRECIABLE affect on gas mileage !

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Old 03-28-2012, 03:47 PM   #4
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The spare is probably the biggest one and won't cost you anything. I would put it back on off road, however.

You could also try a lightweight battery - that is big in the Lotus world where weight is such a critical function of track performance.

Lightweight wheels/tires are a nice choice, especially because they are unsprung weight, but I doubt there are too many lightweight choices for Wranglers.

My favorite Colin Chapman quote:
"Driving involves 3 basic abilities: Accelerating, braking and turning. Adding power will only help the first, adding lightness helps all three."
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #5
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Tell you this.... When I first rolled out on 35's I had 5 wheels, 2 CA's and a TB in the back. 150 lbs maybe?
She was a turd. Figured it was the big meats that were just put on. Removed all that crap and all was well. Night and day
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:54 PM   #6
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I already commented on weight loss and mileage-


Quote:
Originally Posted by PieFace View Post
Hey All!

I just took my hard top off, and i can completely feel the difference in from the weight loss.

Please post any suggestions for other ways to drop weight.
If you're talking about "POWER" feeling, is done by diff. ratio, not weight loss-

My '08 JKUR weighs inexcess of 5200 lbs and can avg 17 mpg on LEVEL freeway and I have all the power I want--with a HEAVY jeep-

It's gearing my man--gearing !!

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:17 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post
I already commented on weight loss and mileage-




If you're talking about "POWER" feeling, is done by diff. ratio, not weight loss-

My '08 JKUR weighs inexcess of 5200 lbs and can avg 17 mpg on LEVEL freeway and I have all the power I want--with a HEAVY jeep-

It's gearing my man--gearing !!
JIMBO
Only partially correct (and I think you know this given your highlighting of "LEVEL").

On the highway, where speed is high and steady state, aero forces are predominant and mileage will not be siginificantly impacted as you are not overcoming inertia or gravity. In a city type driving environment, where one is accelerating often, weight will have a large negative impact on fuel mileage. As you noted, when gravitational forces must be overcome, i.e. not level, weight will matter and will negatively impact mileage (and accleration).

"Power" feeling. I'll kindly say you are incorrect. A lighter vehicle with the same motor and final gearing, will always be and feel faster than the heavier vehicle as long as you are not friction limited. One can see this with a 2dr vs 4dr Wrangler. Its simple A=F/M, all else remaining equal. Now, comparing vehicles with different final gearing is harder and frankly disingenuous.

Furthermore, lighter weight improves braking and handling significantly, while also reducing wear on all components - brakes, tires, suspension, drivetrain. There is one caveat on handling, one can run the risk of overly wide tires in rain and snow if a vehicle becomes too light.

Finally, there is a cost benefit ratio. Lightening a vehicle can become enormously expensive. The cost benefit may be lost and let's face it, no amount of realistic weight reduction will turn the Wrangler into a handling machine. Its suspension just won't allow it, and wasn't designed for it anyway.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:20 PM   #8
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Tell you this.... When I first rolled out on 35's I had 5 wheels, 2 CA's and a TB in the back. 150 lbs maybe?
She was a turd. Figured it was the big meats that were just put on. Removed all that crap and all was well. Night and day
So what's that eco reading about now? Come on man, I need to prove to myself that I'd be ok with those pretty 35s on my 15s. FWIW, my last fill up was 19.8 in city calculated at the pump. I drive like an old lady.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:29 PM   #9
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Partially correct-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurhip View Post
Only partially correct (and I think you know this given your highlighting of "LEVEL").

On the highway, where speed is high and steady state, aero forces are predominant and mileage will not be siginificantly impacted as you are not overcoming inertia or gravity. In a city type driving environment, where one is accelerating often, weight will have a large negative impact on fuel mileage. As you noted, when gravitational forces must be overcome, i.e. not level, weight will matter and will negatively impact mileage (and accleration).

"Power" feeling. I'll kindly say you are incorrect. A lighter vehicle with the same motor and final gearing, will always be and feel faster than the heavier vehicle as long as you are not friction limited. One can see this with a 2dr vs 4dr Wrangler. Its simple A=F/M, all else remaining equal. Now, comparing vehicles with different final gearing is harder and frankly disingenuous.

Furthermore, lighter weight improves braking and handling significantly, while also reducing wear on all components - brakes, tires, suspension, drivetrain. There is one caveat on handling, one can run the risk of overly wide tires in rain and snow if a vehicle becomes too light.

Finally, there is a cost benefit ratio. Lightening a vehicle can become enormously expensive. The cost benefit may be lost and let's face it, no amount of realistic weight reduction will turn the Wrangler into a handling machine. Its suspension just won't allow it, and wasn't designed for it anyway.
My JKUR is not "standard"--"normal" I have increased my GVW by approx. 25% and improved my "Level Freeway"mileage by approximately 20%-

My "APPLIED POWER" and throttle response has improved approximately 35%-

You're right though, this won't apply to a "NORMAL" jeep and novice driver !

So it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another--

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:31 PM   #10
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I am about to lose around 50 lbs of tire weight tomorrow and personally lost more then that since the first of the year. I did feel a difference once I removed my hardtop too.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:39 PM   #11
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So, you don't feel that it's a "PLACEBO" effect ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I am about to lose around 50 lbs of tire weight tomorrow and personally lost more then that since the first of the year. I did feel a difference once I removed my hardtop too.
In other words-you feel that you "LOST" 110lbs--and that made your power/mileage/response--"Better" ??

SO, are you gonna travel alone, no matter where you go ?? a passengers gonna add 125/200 lbs--right ?

Sorry, Having a heavy 4dr-I can't buy a FACTUAL vehicle improvement, by taking the top off and especially at hiwy speeds-

Great day, HUH ?

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PieFace View Post
Hey All!

I just took my hard top off, and i can completely feel the difference in from the weight loss.

Please post any suggestions for other ways to drop weight.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/put...ghlight=weight

I posted a few ideas in this thread.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JIMBOX View Post
Partially correct-




My JKUR is not "standard"--"normal" I have increased my GVW by approx. 25% and improved my "Level Freeway"mileage by approximately 20%-

My "APPLIED POWER" and throttle response has improved approximately 35%-

You're right though, this won't apply to a "NORMAL" jeep and novice driver !

So it's 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another--

JIMBO
I'll take a full dozen
If you made all the same changes to your Jeep but were able to keep the original vehicle weight, you would have even greater gains.
You can tune to account for weight and make back some of the losses inherent in increased weight, but the losses are still there and always will be. Get rid of the weight and you can, for lack of better words, have your cake and eat it too.

Now, in your case, the weight you added probably has high value in certain situations as I am assuming you didn't just place a bunch of sand bags in your Jeep. So, you tuned around a necessary "obstacle" for an overall better Jeep for your needs.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:52 PM   #14
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Heh Heh, BINGO-


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurhip View Post
I'll take a full dozen
If you made all the same changes to your Jeep but were able to keep the original vehicle weight, you would have even greater gains.
You can tune to account for weight and make back some of the losses inherent in increased weight, but the losses are still there and always will be. Get rid of the weight and you can, for lack of better words, have your cake and eat it too.

Now, in your case, the weight you added probably has high value in certain situations as I am assuming you didn't just place a bunch of sand bags in your Jeep. So, you tuned around a necessary "obstacle" for an overall better Jeep for your needs.
All my mods have been for safety/versatility/protection/ease of ops and towing improvements-

Your Mass in motion and F=MA subjects are unarguable, but-

We're talking "JEEPS" and logical thought and graph adherance-is thrown to the wind, which, by the way, has a greater affect on hiwy mileage than a weight reduction--that is a "HEAD WIND" !

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Old 03-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #15
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #16
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I have no spare on and no back seat. feels the same to be honest. lol
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #17
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Well JP magazine dedicated about half it's October 2011 articles to weight lose and performance. The only section they posted online was the Cherokee test but they did some other test. One of the big parts of the test was tire weight. Nitto didn't do to well while Duratrac's did the best but it was the light weight tire they used. of course there are more light weight tires on the market. But between the heavy weight and light weight match up here was the outcome of the dyno.

Changes (lighter tire did better in all by)

(28-pound difference each)
0-60 mph 2.03 seconds
40-60 mph 0.66 seconds
60-0 mph 24 feet 2 inches
Mileage 0.63mpg
Dyno Numbers 6.78hp 5.97-lb-ft

Not huge numbers but there was a difference




Power And Performance From Weight Loss - Jp Magazine

The Oct 2011 issue had some really good info on weight or at least getting rid of it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #18
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remove the rear seat......
remove the carpet.....
aluminum front/rear bumpers
remove the doors
get a soft top!
get 1/2 doors
if you want to get serious their is a lot of useless steel under that can be removed / swiss cheesed without giving up saftey.
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:34 PM   #19
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Allright--I Harp--I Harp-about gearing-


Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
Well JP magazine dedicated about half it's October 2011 articles to weight lose and performance. The only section they posted online was the Cherokee test but they did some other test. One of the big parts of the test was tire weight. Nitto didn't do to well while Duratrac's did the best but it was the light weight tire they used. of course there are more light weight tires on the market. But between the heavy weight and light weight match up here was the outcome of the dyno.

Changes (lighter tire did better in all by)

(28-pound difference each)
0-60 mph 2.03 seconds
40-60 mph 0.66 seconds
60-0 mph 24 feet 2 inches
Mileage 0.63mpg
Dyno Numbers 6.78hp 5.97-lb-ft

Not huge numbers but there was a difference




Power And Performance From Weight Loss - Jp Magazine

The Oct 2011 issue had some really good info on weight or at least getting rid of it.
As you can attest to the SINGLE most effective way to increase the jeeps performance/power/weight ratio/mileage and "seat-of-the pants satisfaction is-is-is-is--REGEAR-

You can keep the same neat mods you've made and the heavy bumper/winch/rack/roll cage and not lose a damn thing !!

Aughta be a sticky-

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Old 03-28-2012, 06:40 PM   #20
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I absolutely agree that the best performance mod you can do is gears hands down. Just saying that weight can cause some downfalls.

Heavy Weight from heavy front bumper and heavy tires cost me 3 mpg and some power lose.

Regear gained me 2 mpg back and a lot more power then I ever lost
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Old 03-28-2012, 06:47 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I absolutely agree that the best performance mod you can do is gears hands down. Just saying that weight can cause some downfalls.

Heavy Weight from heavy front bumper and heavy tires cost me 3 mpg and some power lose.

Regear gained me 2 mpg back and a lot more power then I ever lost
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #22
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When I take the doors and top off the Jeep seem to feel lighter - seems to accelerate faster
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:18 PM   #23
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I absolutely agree that the best performance mod you can do is gears hands down. Just saying that weight can cause some downfalls.

Heavy Weight from heavy front bumper and heavy tires cost me 3 mpg and some power lose.

Regear gained me 2 mpg back and a lot more power then I ever lost
Same amount of power. What you gained was wheel torque.
Power cannot be multiplied via a gearbox. Only torque (force) can.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:13 PM   #24
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Same amount of power. What you gained was wheel torque.
Power cannot be multiplied via a gearbox. Only torque (force) can.
You miss the point. Yes you do gain power. Not because the engine gained power, we know it doesn't. By regearing you put your Jeep at a higher rpm at a given speed. And since the engine produces higher hp at higher rpm you in fact gain hp. So at 70mph with 3.73 and 70mph with 4.88 you gain not only torque but 25hp. Again not because the engine is more powerful but because you are driving in a better power range for that engine.

That happens from across the board because you will start at a higher RPM.

So in fact you do gain power just because you are in a better power band for the motor. I can pass and even turn over my wheels if I want and that is not just from the torque but the hp
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:24 PM   #25
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You miss the point. Yes you do gain power. Not because the engine gained power, we know it doesn't. By regearing you put your Jeep at a higher rpm at a given speed. And since the engine produces higher hp at higher rpm you in fact gain hp. So at 70mph with 3.73 and 70mph with 4.88 you gain not only torque but 25hp. Again not because the engine is more powerful but because you are driving in a better power range for that engine.

That happens from across the board because you will start at a higher RPM.

So in fact you do gain power just because you are in a better power band for the motor. I can pass and even turn over my wheels if I want and that is not just from the torque but the hp
I was just being anal in my last post - I understood what you were saying.
However, I won't technically agree with on the power gain (the engineer in me says "NO") but I will agree that correct gearing will place your engine at an rpm range with more power, and therefore you will have more power at your disposal during everyday driving.

Side note - this is actually the design goal of a CVT (continuously variable transmission)
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:35 PM   #26
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-There's another benefit to the proper regearing and thats-

A substabcial foot throtle response "TIME" reduction, my IMMEDIATE response is probably' a little quicker than yours rics, but I'll bet you noticed a response time reduction, after your regearing-

I'ts a substancial mind soothing benefit, to help swallow the costs---However, it's just one of MANY BENEFITS -

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Old 03-28-2012, 09:00 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP

So what's that eco reading about now? Come on man, I need to prove to myself that I'd be ok with those pretty 35s on my 15s. FWIW, my last fill up was 19.8 in city calculated at the pump. I drive like an old lady.
Hey my balljoints are toast

Oh wait gas mileage ya... Ok um

Well... I have not calculated it out by hand but my dash readout only dropped .5

4.10's are ok. Not ideal but ok

I still have 6th gear use.
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Old 03-28-2012, 09:29 PM   #28
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Where your ball joints bad before getting those? Had you looked at them prior? Surely your not saying that they are toast now because you've had 35s for a few days?!?! Wait or are you?
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #29
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Where your ball joints bad before getting those? Had you looked at them prior? Surely your not saying that they are toast now because you've had 35s for a few days?!?! Wait or are you?
No!!

Been chasing a vibe for about a month.
43k on craptastic JK balljoints

Exploring my options now. Also both my drag link ends at the knuckle and PA is showing signs of slop.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:18 PM   #30
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Ugh...I can't remember any of the info you've already told me about those. I think my brain is on malfunction mode right now. I attest it to your getting of those new big tires. It's got my wallet running from me and I'm researching tire info again.

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