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Old 12-11-2013, 12:30 AM   #1
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Angry Wrangler - Where Is The Locking Center Differential

I have a 2013 JKU. Where I live, all winter long, the streets are snow/ice covered and driving in 2WD is a pain and dangerous in a Jeep, being RWD.

I would like to pretty much leave my Jeep in 4WD most of winter, however, there is no guarantee the tires will be able to slip when turning, all the time, as required by the part time 4WD system (I never understood how the need to slip equals more traction).

I really don't understand why they did not just put a locking center differential in there. This would allow for 2 modes of 4WD:
  • 4WD with center diff unlocked (full time 4WD)
  • 4WD with center diff locked (part time 4WD).
I believe the Cherokee's are like this.

Like seriously, they have been around for 72 years and they are still using the same 4WD system they had 72 years ago!!!

Since Jeep has decided not to include a locking center differential in the wrangler (which makes no sense), driving in 4WD on snowy/icy, paved road conditions, with no guarantee of slip while turning, will undoubtedly, eventually, destroy the driveline.

My question is, will Chrysler warranty the driveline, after it destroys itself, from driving in 4WD, in conditions where tire slip is not guaranteed?

My other question is, can a full time/part time 4WD Cherokee transfer case be installed on a wrangler?

Thanks

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Old 12-11-2013, 12:45 AM   #2
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:50 AM   #3
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No, yes, no, no, yes, and I have no clue
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
I have a 2013 JKU. Where I live, all winter long, the streets are snow/ice covered and driving in 2WD is a pain and dangerous in a Jeep, being RWD.

I would like to pretty much leave my Jeep in 4WD most of winter, however, there is no guarantee the tires will be able to slip when turning, all the time, as required by the part time 4WD system (I never understood how the need to slip equals more traction).

I really don't understand why they did not just put a locking center differential in there. This would allow for 2 modes of 4WD:
  • 4WD with center diff unlocked (full time 4WD)
  • 4WD with center diff locked (part time 4WD).
I believe the Cherokee's are like this.

Like seriously, they have been around for 72 years and they are still using the same 4WD system they had 72 years ago!!!

Since Jeep has decided not to include a locking center differential in the wrangler (which makes no sense), driving in 4WD on snowy/icy, paved road conditions, with no guarantee of slip while turning, will undoubtedly, eventually, destroy the driveline.

My question is, will Chrysler warranty the driveline, after it destroys itself, from driving in 4WD, in conditions where tire slip is not guaranteed?

My other question is, can a full time/part time 4WD Cherokee transfer case be installed on a wrangler?

Thanks
You're absolutely correct ... NP242.

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Old 12-11-2013, 12:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by gixxerphil View Post
No, yes, no, no, yes, and I have no clue

Anything can be installed, will it bolt in?....no
Imagine that...no clue....
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:08 AM   #6
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My gran pappy says if it aint broke don't fix it. I'm gonna say thats some pretty sound logic. Use your brain and it'll work bettrr then just about every 4x4 or awd system.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
I have a 2013 JKU. Where I live, all winter long, the streets are snow/ice covered and driving in 2WD is a pain and dangerous in a Jeep, being RWD.

I would like to pretty much leave my Jeep in 4WD most of winter, however, there is no guarantee the tires will be able to slip when turning, all the time, as required by the part time 4WD system (I never understood how the need to slip equals more traction).

I really don't understand why they did not just put a locking center differential in there. This would allow for 2 modes of 4WD:
  • 4WD with center diff unlocked (full time 4WD)
  • 4WD with center diff locked (part time 4WD).
I believe the Cherokee's are like this.

Like seriously, they have been around for 72 years and they are still using the same 4WD system they had 72 years ago!!!

Since Jeep has decided not to include a locking center differential in the wrangler (which makes no sense), driving in 4WD on snowy/icy, paved road conditions, with no guarantee of slip while turning, will undoubtedly, eventually, destroy the driveline.

My question is, will Chrysler warranty the driveline, after it destroys itself, from driving in 4WD, in conditions where tire slip is not guaranteed?

My other question is, can a full time/part time 4WD Cherokee transfer case be installed on a wrangler?

Thanks
Some cherokees, the ones that have quadra drive II if i recall. Quadra trac I and II do not have a 50/50 front and rear axle torque distribution while in "Hi"/Normal mode. Quadra tract II only engages both axles when placed in 4 Lo, while QT I does not have this capability. This would prove inferior to the current wrangler system because you can't use your axles constantly while in 4 Hi, only when the traction control wants you to. QT II Lo is similar to wrangler's Lo, and the center differential is locked and you can't use it on roads, only on soft terrain. So, you are still stuck with a 2wd vehicle that puts torque on the front wheels only when it loses traction on the rear on QT I and II. And, I dont know if I remember this right either, but in Hi, QT I only applies torque to either front or rear, not both, while QT II can do both, but i'm not sure, someone else has to confirm this.

Quadra drive is a true full time 4wd, not 50/50, but more like 48/52 or something on hi. Then you can lock the center differential for 50/50 front and back with a lower gear. At least that is what I remember from the brochure and cool videos. You do get torque in all wheels while cruising normally on the street. This system is the one that would make more sense in a wrangler.

You have to remember something, if you knew this, if not, its a key point that you should have researched before purchasing the vehicle, the 4wd option in wranglers is not for adverse weather traction control purposes, its for offroad terrain grappling and torque, but not control. And no, chrysler will not warrant damage from trying to use a part time system in full time if the terrain does not allow the tires to sink on it.

As for why they used part time vs full time, it may be about durability and compatibility, I have no idea, but I will shoot a guess. I dont know how long would a center differential last paired with 5.13 gears on each axle and 37s pushing up on a rock. Maybe a simple t-case with a lower ratio provides more strength on strenous condition at a lower cost with less complex repairs. Its a simple rugged system proven to work for what it's intended.

You obviously bought the wrong vehicle if you wanted traction control out of the 4WD system, at this current time.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jeep_Gypsy View Post
My gran pappy says if it aint broke don't fix it. I'm gonna say thats some pretty sound logic. Use your brain and it'll work bettrr then just about every 4x4 or awd system.
That is my point. It is going to break!

It is unreasonable/impossible to switch between 2WD and 4WD, depending on whether the corner you are about to turn is "slippery" enough to use the 4WD. Even on icy turns, it still binds up.

You can break your 4WD system even on the trail like this. It is worse in a Jeep cause they are so short.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:31 AM   #9
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The Toyota FJ (manual only) has exactly the system I described in my first post, with a locking center differential. The only downfall is there is no 2WD, and possibly no low range (not sure). I like the Jeep (look at least) much better and wish they would copy Toyota.
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Old 12-11-2013, 01:50 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by m998dna View Post
You're absolutely correct ... NP242.

.
Thanks!

I wish they put this is the Wrangler. Its perfect! Link is here:

The Jeep New Process / NVG 242 Transfer Case
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
Thanks!

I wish they put this is the Wrangler. Its perfect! Link is here:

The Jeep New Process / NVG 242 Transfer Case
I have this in my 1991 Cherokee... weak spot is the tail shaft spline slip yoke. Mine has a Currie Slip Yoke Eliminator (SYE) on it, no one makes a HD SYE like you see for the NP231.

Way back in the day the NP231 was the case to have, now the NP242 is known for its versatility and many uses. The best damn overall transfer case IMO. I can shift on the fly at 35-50 mph on the freeway using Part Time 4-HI in wet and slippery conditions.

It's perfect if you don't lift your Jeep too high... other than that, yes I agree.

.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:18 AM   #12
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What is dangerous about RWD in slippery conditions? I much prefer it to FWD, and have never felt unsafe with RWD.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:21 AM   #13
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Yes

AWD is what he's talking about. Have we considered limited slip in the rear ? Better for DD and the conditions you stated.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:53 AM   #14
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No he's talking about Part Time 4WD.... big difference than AWD.

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Old 12-11-2013, 06:22 AM   #15
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:32 AM   #16
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Maybe we should be looking at a KL, or a new Subaru.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:52 AM   #17
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I had Select-Trac 1 in my Liberty (KJ).....loved hit. 2WD, 4Hft, 4Hpt, 4L

The reason why it isn't in the Wrangler is because it is not as strong of a 4WD system.

Edit: Select-Trac, not Command-Trac.....duh. needs coffee
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:45 AM   #18
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I ordered the Selec-Trac option for the wife's Jeep Liberty. It was just so much easier to shift it into 4WDH at the beginning of the winter and let her drive around in full time 4WD then try and get her to understand when to shift in and out of part time 4WD.

I would have ordered that option for my JK if it was available. A lockable centre differential just makes so much sense. Selec-Trac should be an option.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:42 AM   #19
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I have seen a thread on another forum (not sure if I can cross link so I'll let you guys search "NP242 in a JK?" on your own) where someone did the swap.

The basic synopsis is that the NP242J from the '03 Liberty is compatible with the JK. It is not 100% bolt in and has the following problems
  • JK electronics do not recognize the 4HI Full Time position so it needs to be tricked into thinking it is in 2HI (modification to the transfer case position sensor cam)
  • The transfer case makes use of a slip yoke while the JK uses a fixed yoke. So it will need to be modified to a non-slip or new rear driveshaft ordered.
  • The transfer case is a little over 3" longer than the NV241, which as with the above may require a new rear driveshaft, it is unknown whether the extra length will pose a problem for the JK whereas its confirmed it will fit in a JKU
  • Very minor issue, but the transfercase operation is apparently reversed as well, so a linkage mechanism would probably need to be designed if you wanted 2HI all the way forward and 4LO all the way back.
Now I am by no means mechanically talented. These were just my notes I have been collecting as I was investigating this for my own purposes (a winter rally, lets just say ice roads are involved). For me the only bit I would have issues with is the driveshaft. If someone made a replacement that an idiot could install, I would probably do the swap in a heartbeat. Until then I am continuing to improve my knowledge with the hope I can find a workable solution for the driveshaft problem as I dont have the tools to do what the original guy did.

Also expect that new transfer case to set you back about $1500 unless you pull it from a part out/etc
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:57 AM   #20
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Its called shift on the fly. If roads are slick shift into 4WD if they become clear again shift back to 2wd.If it works dont fix it.

I drove my 95 YJ with the exact same design for over 285k miles and I would run in 4wd over spotty ice/ dry patches dry road and never even so much as replaced a ujoint. Obviously you dont want to be cranking a turn in 4wd hopping the front axle on dry pavement but you would be surprised how well the 4wd can handle dry road and slight turns. We have snow on here now and the roads are patchy. Im in 4wd coming out of my drive and as soon as I hit the road back into 2wd until I come to a snow covered hill. I will shift back and forth as needed .Not an issue. I have an auto and it does not bother me to shift in and out of 4wd a few times each trip. Folks with manual are shifting much more every day.

Sounds like to me you should have bought a compass or something with the full time awd if its too much trouble to reach down and shift in and out of 4wd.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:23 PM   #21
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Selec-Trac was really, really, really nice.....but again, it isn't quite as strong a 4WD system as Command-Trac, so I can see why it isn't offered in Wrangler's. Good AT tires and LSD on the Wrangler really help in-place of Selec-Trac
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #22
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Deaner - perhaps the JK isn't for you?

Or... The part-time 4-wheel drive system works just fine for a whole bunch of people, myself included. Yes, even on icy, snowy paved streets.

Personally I just drive in 2WD most of the time, taking it easy as is appropriate on icy or snowy streets. If it's real slick and nasty, it's simple to put the Jeep in 4-high and drive. It works fine. Coming into a parking lot or someplace where I might need to make a real sharp turn, it's simple to pop it back into 2WD and park. No big deal. 2WD most of the time, 4WD when I want both axles pulling. I've only been through one winter with my JK, and have been very impressed with how well it handles snow & ice, even in 2WD. The traction control is pretty amazing.

Have been doing that for 30+ years now, in various different 4x4 rigs, and it works just fine. Time to time I've replaced a few u-joints of course. Not many, considering all the years and all the miles.

Regards, CW
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:55 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I never understood how the need to slip equals more traction.
When you are in 4WD, one front wheel and one rear wheel are locked together.
As you know, when you turn, all 4 wheels must rotate at different speeds.

If you are turning on a surface with limited traction and you are in 4WD, you actually force one wheel to break traction because it is rotating at a speed which is different than what it should be rotating at due to it being locked to another wheel. This isn't really an issue at slow speeds, but forcing a wheel to break traction at higher speeds while turning is a good way to end up in a ditch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaner View Post
My question is, will Chrysler warranty the driveline, after it destroys itself, from driving in 4WD, in conditions where tire slip is not guaranteed?
Nope

My suggestion.....
Get really good tires, and if you don't have it....add limited slip.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:30 PM   #24
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I'm not trying to be an ass about this but did you do your research before you bought your Jeep?

You are having a rant about something that the Jeep model you bought does not do.

I think some of the other responders hit the nail on the head. Buy something that fits your needs and wants. Don't bash what you bought because you did not do your research.
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Old 12-11-2013, 04:55 PM   #25
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Everytime I come on here and see this thread title still here, only one thought crosses my mind. WTF?
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:09 PM   #26
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What is dangerous about RWD in slippery conditions? I much prefer it to FWD, and have never felt unsafe with RWD.

I agree 100% !!!
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:18 PM   #27
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Dude ... chillax. Yes, over time, running your Jeep in 4x4 on dry roads for extended periods of time will cause problems. But I have driven plenty of traditional 4x4's for many, many miles this way and never had any problems, there have been times when I realized my truck was in 4x4 for weeks.

If you are on the highway and the turns are really gentle then you are not putting that much stress on the drivetrain with the 4x4 engaged. When you try to make tighter turns and your steering binds up on dry ground, this is your clue to take it out of 4x4.

I'm not saying my approach is optimal, but I think your JK will handle a lot more in 4x4 than you realize. If conditions are intermittently slippery, put it in 4x4 and keep it there.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:19 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Selec-Trac was really, really, really nice.....but again, it isn't quite as strong a 4WD system as Command-Trac, so I can see why it isn't offered in Wrangler's.
From what I understand, the Selec-Trac is physically larger than the Command-Trac. So, the Selec-Trac will not fit on the pretty short wheelbase 2-door Wrangler. From that, Jeep wants the 2dr and the 4dr to offer the same powertrains so that eliminates the Selec-Trac from being a 4dr, Unlimited, only offering.

BTW, I had Selec-Trac on my Cherokee, and I really really wish it was available on the Wrangler. Full time 4WD is so much nicer than part time 4WD, especially as you travel from plowed to unplowed to plowed to unplowed streets in the winter.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #29
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It would be cheaper to invest in some quality studded tires. Curious where the OP lives.
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Old 12-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #30
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Thumbs up Long live the Sahara!

Clearly in the OP's scenario, Sahara > Rubicon!

LSD + BLD and Shift on the Fly Command-Trac is the correct choice for road warriors.

Long live the Sahara!



It's important to understand your vehicle, if you purchased a Rubicon because you thought it was the cool thing to do, but you don't push it to the point you need it's features, or you just don't off road, consider trading it in for a Sahara (or Sport) with Limited Slip Differential!

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