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Old 09-17-2013, 01:06 AM   #61
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I do love a good diesel. But let's be real. These are wranglers. Not Ram 2500's. No amount of torque will matter much without an extended wheelbase. It's not going to become a tow master regardless.

The vast majority of us don't have 37"+ tires and crawl over rocks all day. So while gobs of low end torque is cool, that isn't where most owners spend the majority of their time. There is a reason why modern diesels are changing so much (lighter, higher revving etc)

The 240hp diesel in the wrangler is not going to beat a pstar in a drag race. You can mod it sure, but you can mod the V6 too thanks to Ripp and others.

Fuel cost more, service, parts and maintenance are sure to be higher as well.

Don't get me wrong, if they build one I would take a serious look at it. Not because I need it though. Just because it would be flat out cool.I have to say though, if they built a hemi wrangler as well it would be no contest as to which box to check.
Good points but I've driven the 3.8, 3.6, & hemi back to back same day and I chose the 3.6 because of two things: cost and mpg. The hemi gage went down astoundingly as I drove them all two miles stomping the chit out of them all.

If they had a diesel I guess then it would have been a magical day to check a box!

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Old 09-17-2013, 04:55 AM   #62
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Good points but I've driven the 3.8, 3.6, & hemi back to back same day and I chose the 3.6 because of two things: cost and mpg. The hemi gage went down astoundingly as I drove them all two miles stomping the chit out of them all.

If they had a diesel I guess then it would have been a magical day to check a box!
Well, I think the simple solution to the hemi fuel mileage would be not to drive it like that. The Pentastar easily drops down to 13mpg territory if you're wringing its neck, too.

I like the Pentastar for day-to-day driving, but spending a couple days in the mountains it was easy to find places where it fell flat on its face. Let it drop below 1500 RPM, and you're looking at a 2 gear downshift to maintain forward momentum. That same area is effortless for my V8 pickup.

The cost of the hemi conversion isn't worth it to me, but if it were a factory option, it would have been mandatory. I'm thinking the same thing with the diesel if they put in the 3.0. I'll save for an extra year to cover the big jump in cost, because I think it will be worth it.

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Old 09-17-2013, 07:35 AM   #63
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Obnoxiously noisy - no thanks.

Extra power after you turn it into a black cloud emitting stinker - no thanks.
??? I guess you haven't been around a modern diesel. The ticking from the pentastar is noiser
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:45 AM   #64
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??? I guess you haven't been around a modern diesel. The ticking from the pentastar is noiser
I know they don't have to be noisy - but the jeep in that video clip seems to be.

As far as the pollution - I know they don't have to do that either, but there are lots of comments in this thread about "tuning" the diesel for better performance - along with that comes more pollution.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:48 AM   #65
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Just curious because I know very little on Diesel engines why would a chip do so much? Do companies really limit them that much to reduce emissions?
First of all, they are turbocharged, which means plenty of cheap and easy power gains. Diesels are also pegged back thanks to the EPA. Once you unleash the potential, you can nearly double the power output. Diesel engines are usually overbuilt and underpowered (from factory.)
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:57 AM   #66
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Obnoxiously noisy - no thanks.

Extra power after you turn it into a black cloud emitting stinker - no thanks.

We have enough particulate pollution here in the Salt Lake Valley - our air is very unhealthy in the winter and it really ticks me off when I see diesel pickups emitting huge black clouds with every shift.
Modern diesels (unless it's an economy car) are extremely quiet. Go test drive a BMW or a Mercedes diesel. They are actually quieter than their gas power brothers.



As for a cloud spewing stinker, thats not necessary. You see that on the older pickups. A chip won't make it spew out anything but still give you a serious power gain.

A BMW 535d comes stock with 255hp and 413lb/ft of torque (at the crank). With a simple chip (no exhaust modification so no black clouds) you get 340hp and 515lb/ft AT THE WHEELS. That is from a $450 chip. On TOP of that, you get a 20% improvement in fuel economy over stock. There is no downside. Clean diesel is the future all over the world, except in the US, because our government thinks packing your car with a bunch of toxic batteries that take all day to recharge is the way to go. Our government gives each other high fives when some sh!tbox overpriced Volt ($120K to the taxpayer each time one is sold) gets 50mpg, while a clean diesel VW golf in europe is doing 75mpg. Diesels from the 80s were doing 50mpg.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:00 AM   #67
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I know they don't have to be noisy - but the jeep in that video clip seems to be.

As far as the pollution - I know they don't have to do that either, but there are lots of comments in this thread about "tuning" the diesel for better performance - along with that comes more pollution.
Because it's an old 4 banger diesel, which is why I said in my previous post "economy car." Economy diesels are indeed noisy. The one in the GC is VERY quiet. From inside the car, you can't even hear it.

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Old 09-17-2013, 09:07 AM   #68
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And here is the main purpose of a diesel in the Wrangler....

Watch this video...



This is a BMW 335d (tuned). Obviously we don't care about top speed, since the jeep isn't for that, but keep an eye on how it's pulling from 0-60 and then 100-200 (these are kph) pull at basically the same rate (the term freight train) comes to mind. This is essential on a Jeep, because it will pull the same way whether stock or riding on 37s with 1200lbs of armor.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:17 AM   #69
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And here is the main purpose of a diesel in the Wrangler....

Watch this video...



This is a BMW 335d (tuned). Obviously we don't care about top speed, since the jeep isn't for that, but keep an eye on how it's pulling from 0-60 and then 100-200 (these are kph) pull at basically the same rate (the term freight train) comes to mind. This is essential on a Jeep, because it will pull the same way whether stock or riding on 37s with 1200lbs of armor.
Sweet. By my calculations that looks like a 0-60 mph time of 5 seconds and a 0-100 mph time of 11.5.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:21 AM   #70
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Well, I think the simple solution to the hemi fuel mileage would be not to drive it like that. The Pentastar easily drops down to 13mpg territory if you're wringing its neck, too.

I like the Pentastar for day-to-day driving, but spending a couple days in the mountains it was easy to find places where it fell flat on its face. Let it drop below 1500 RPM, and you're looking at a 2 gear downshift to maintain forward momentum. That same area is effortless for my V8 pickup.

The cost of the hemi conversion isn't worth it to me, but if it were a factory option, it would have been mandatory. I'm thinking the same thing with the diesel if they put in the 3.0. I'll save for an extra year to cover the big jump in cost, because I think it will be worth it.
I live 20 minutes from the rocky mountains. YOU HAVE TO DRIVE LIKE THAT WHEN TACKLING TWO OF THE BIGGEST TOP TEN PASSES IN NORTH ANERICA (Loveland & Vail) lol

When you said 1500 did you mean that? My experience is if you drop below 3,000 while in the Rockies (going up a grade) you're toast. You lost momentum and have to wait for the next downhill to recover.

If I had the hemi it'd cost me hundred's $ to get across them! I put on 25-30K a year. Theres no way to keep out of the skinny pedal up there. The 3.6 is so-so for power up there too. You really have to be on your game with the gears (manual here).

I really miss my old dodge Cummins 6.7 DELETED/CHIPPED/5" Turbo back exhaust

Maybe someday that RIPP will be the ticket as I'm not swapping over my current mods (way too much time spent and much of it drilled into the tub)

Like I said, if they had a diesel option at the time of my purchase, that would have been awesome to try all four at once and then make the call. Plus I could have just headed west to run a pass or two during test drives.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:54 AM   #71
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Modern diesels (unless it's an economy car) are extremely quiet. Go test drive a BMW or a Mercedes diesel. They are actually quieter than their gas power brothers.



As for a cloud spewing stinker, thats not necessary. You see that on the older pickups. A chip won't make it spew out anything but still give you a serious power gain.

A BMW 535d comes stock with 255hp and 413lb/ft of torque (at the crank). With a simple chip (no exhaust modification so no black clouds) you get 340hp and 515lb/ft AT THE WHEELS. That is from a $450 chip. On TOP of that, you get a 20% improvement in fuel economy over stock. There is no downside. Clean diesel is the future all over the world, except in the US, because our government thinks packing your car with a bunch of toxic batteries that take all day to recharge is the way to go. Our government gives each other high fives when some sh!tbox overpriced Volt ($120K to the taxpayer each time one is sold) gets 50mpg, while a clean diesel VW golf in europe is doing 75mpg. Diesels from the 80s were doing 50mpg.
I did not know that about the volt. It's appalling, and infuriating to say the least
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:02 AM   #72
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And here is the main purpose of a diesel in the Wrangler....

Watch this video...



This is a BMW 335d (tuned). Obviously we don't care about top speed, since the jeep isn't for that, but keep an eye on how it's pulling from 0-60 and then 100-200 (these are kph) pull at basically the same rate (the term freight train) comes to mind. This is essential on a Jeep, because it will pull the same way whether stock or riding on 37s with 1200lbs of armor.
That driver is nuckin futs. And at night too?! Seriously that's beyond reckless.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:03 AM   #73
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I did not know that about the volt. It's appalling, and infuriating to say the least
Actually, the cost to taxpayers has now been brought down to 50K a pop, but you get the point.

Insight: GM's Volt: The ugly math of low sales, high costs | Reuters
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:05 AM   #74
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Actually, the cost to taxpayers has now been brought down to 50K a pop, but you get the point.

Insight: GM's Volt: The ugly math of low sales, high costs | Reuters
Point taken. Still BS
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:25 AM   #75
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I have never understood the whole idea of how battery operated cars was going to solve anything. It may solve the fuel dependence issues, but it only leads to other problems. The power grid of the U.S. is strained as it is. Can you imagine thousands or millions of people plugging in their vehicle every night to charge? The government never ceases to amaze me.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:31 AM   #76
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I live 20 minutes from the rocky mountains. YOU HAVE TO DRIVE LIKE THAT WHEN TACKLING TWO OF THE BIGGEST TOP TEN PASSES IN NORTH ANERICA (Loveland & Vail) lol

When you said 1500 did you mean that? My experience is if you drop below 3,000 while in the Rockies (going up a grade) you're toast. You lost momentum and have to wait for the next downhill to recover.
Yes... I was in the Catskills. I could drop one gear at about 1700 and keep plugging along (manual trans w/3.73's and 315/70 Duratracs), any lower than that and the RPM and speed would just keep sinking. It could cruise and accelerate from about 2300 RPM on.

The altitude and even steeper grades where you're at probably makes things way worse. I live in Eastern PA, in a valley with short hills, so I'm kind of in a great place to have an underpowered vehicle as a daily driver. Central NY hills actually felt pretty tough.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:42 AM   #77
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I have never understood the whole idea of how battery operated cars was going to solve anything. It may solve the fuel dependence issues, but it only leads to other problems. The power grid of the U.S. is strained as it is. Can you imagine thousands or millions of people plugging in their vehicle every night to charge? The government never ceases to amaze me.
True, but if you want to talk about a flat power curve and high torque, tough to beat an electric car.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #78
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True, but if you want to talk about a flat power curve and high torque, tough to beat an electric car.
Lol! That is true.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:19 PM   #79
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Lol! That is true.
I'm a bit concerned about the fording capability though.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:31 PM   #80
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I can't stand it anymore.

I don't rev my LJ past 3K rpm unless I"m cleaning the tailpipe out or forgot to shift into 6th on the highway. Offroad? Really; you would prefer to have gas offroad? Not for me. I love low-shifting, idling (not with gas at $4 a gal) and any kind of road mileage north of 25mpg. Sadly, I'm at 16 with 32's and I'll loose that with my 33's.

Give me a 28 mpg diesel that isn't dead-slow and doesn't wake the dogs (and neighbors) on a cold day.... My son could be driving the same diesel jeep in 10 years with 300k plus miles on the engine. Right now, with 15-16 mpg, I cant afford to drive the jeep as much as I'd like and ethanol is killing my Jeep (and my lawnmowers!)

Give me a diesel like I've driven all over Europe and South America. Who wouldn't buy one of those sweet little 4 door toyota diesel 4x4 pickups (Hilux?) that gets awsome mileage and lasts forever? Cheap too. Sadly, America is in love with gas and the EPA will make d@mn sure that we don't ever get cheap, clean diesel in this country. Not with record profits for the gas companies.

Sorry for the rant.

Of course, I also think they should sell the Hemi V8 SRT version of the JKU from the factory. That should satisfy all your "0-60" fantasies pretty darn quick.

Jmy2c

As yourself this: Why is diesel higher than gas? (Taxes, EPA and hard diesel demand [industry] vs soft gas demand [consumers])
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:39 PM   #81
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I can't stand it anymore.

I don't rev my LJ past 3K rpm unless I"m cleaning the tailpipe out or forgot to shift into 6th on the highway. Offroad? Really; you would prefer to have gas offroad? Not for me. I love low-shifting, idling (not with gas at $4 a gal) and any kind of road mileage north of 25mpg. Sadly, I'm at 16 with 32's and I'll loose that with my 33's.

Give me a 28 mpg diesel that isn't dead-slow and doesn't wake the dogs (and neighbors) on a cold day.... My son could be driving the same diesel jeep in 10 years with 300k plus miles on the engine. Right now, with 15-16 mpg, I cant afford to drive the jeep as much as I'd like and ethanol is killing my Jeep (and my lawnmowers!)

Give me a diesel like I've driven all over Europe and South America. Who wouldn't buy one of those sweet little 4 door toyota diesel 4x4 pickups (Hilux?) that gets awsome mileage and lasts forever? Cheap too. Sadly, America is in love with gas and the EPA will make d@mn sure that we don't ever get cheap, clean diesel in this country. Not with record profits for the gas companies.

Sorry for the rant.

Of course, I also think they should sell the Hemi V8 SRT version of the JKU from the factory. That should satisfy all your "0-60" fantasies pretty darn quick.

Jmy2c

As yourself this: Why is diesel higher than gas? (Taxes, EPA and hard diesel demand [industry] vs soft gas demand [consumers])
It's an easy way for the government to tax transportation/delivery.

I don't care about speed I want low rpm power and the ability to add tires bumpers and other items without killing MPG.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:40 PM   #82
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I can't stand it anymore.

I don't rev my LJ past 3K rpm unless I"m cleaning the tailpipe out or forgot to shift into 6th on the highway. Offroad? Really; you would prefer to have gas offroad? Not for me. I love low-shifting, idling (not with gas at $4 a gal) and any kind of road mileage north of 25mpg. Sadly, I'm at 16 with 32's and I'll loose that with my 33's.

Give me a 28 mpg diesel that isn't dead-slow and doesn't wake the dogs (and neighbors) on a cold day.... My son could be driving the same diesel jeep in 10 years with 300k plus miles on the engine. Right now, with 15-16 mpg, I cant afford to drive the jeep as much as I'd like and ethanol is killing my Jeep (and my lawnmowers!)

Give me a diesel like I've driven all over Europe and South America. Who wouldn't buy one of those sweet little 4 door toyota diesel 4x4 pickups (Hilux?) that gets awsome mileage and lasts forever? Cheap too. Sadly, America is in love with gas and the EPA will make d@mn sure that we don't ever get cheap, clean diesel in this country. Not with record profits for the gas companies.

Sorry for the rant.

Of course, I also think they should sell the Hemi V8 SRT version of the JKU from the factory. That should satisfy all your "0-60" fantasies pretty darn quick.

Jmy2c

As yourself this: Why is diesel higher than gas? (Taxes, EPA and hard diesel demand [industry] vs soft gas demand [consumers])
I want to be able to drive four hours to the North Cascades or Glacier, have enough passing power to get around anybody I need to with oncoming traffic in the other lane, and then go tromping around in the National Forests surrounding the parks when I get there. In 4 LO, I have *never* had a gas engine with insufficient torque to get me where I want to go. The Pentastar has PLENTY of balls for offroading. And it does a fine job of passing on the highway.

No way I'd trade for a 200 HP diesel, I don't care if it makes a gazillion ft lbs of torque. At 240 HP, it is getting pretty close because diesels tend to make more average power for a given HP rating. And sure, I'd love to have all of that low end, I'd love to have all of that gas mileage. BUT I WANT MY POWER TOO.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #83
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I can't stand it anymore.

I don't rev my LJ past 3K rpm unless I"m cleaning the tailpipe out or forgot to shift into 6th on the highway. Offroad? Really; you would prefer to have gas offroad? Not for me. I love low-shifting, idling (not with gas at $4 a gal) and any kind of road mileage north of 25mpg. Sadly, I'm at 16 with 32's and I'll loose that with my 33's.

Give me a 28 mpg diesel that isn't dead-slow and doesn't wake the dogs (and neighbors) on a cold day.... My son could be driving the same diesel jeep in 10 years with 300k plus miles on the engine. Right now, with 15-16 mpg, I cant afford to drive the jeep as much as I'd like and ethanol is killing my Jeep (and my lawnmowers!)

Give me a diesel like I've driven all over Europe and South America. Who wouldn't buy one of those sweet little 4 door toyota diesel 4x4 pickups (Hilux?) that gets awsome mileage and lasts forever? Cheap too. Sadly, America is in love with gas and the EPA will make d@mn sure that we don't ever get cheap, clean diesel in this country. Not with record profits for the gas companies.

Sorry for the rant.

Of course, I also think they should sell the Hemi V8 SRT version of the JKU from the factory. That should satisfy all your "0-60" fantasies pretty darn quick.

Jmy2c

As yourself this: Why is diesel higher than gas? (Taxes, EPA and hard diesel demand [industry] vs soft gas demand [consumers])
This isn't correct. All countries spend money for "clean air." Europe subsidizes diesel fuel, which is why it's the cheapest form of gas and diesel cars are the cheapest models. In the US, our government wastes money subsidizing batteries and windmills, so diesel is priced like gas (or more) and diesel vehicles are the most expensive model.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:30 PM   #84
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I want to be able to drive four hours to the North Cascades or Glacier, have enough passing power to get around anybody I need to with oncoming traffic in the other lane, and then go tromping around in the National Forests surrounding the parks when I get there. In 4 LO, I have *never* had a gas engine with insufficient torque to get me where I want to go. The Pentastar has PLENTY of balls for offroading. And it does a fine job of passing on the highway.

No way I'd trade for a 200 HP diesel, I don't care if it makes a gazillion ft lbs of torque. At 240 HP, it is getting pretty close because diesels tend to make more average power for a given HP rating. And sure, I'd love to have all of that low end, I'd love to have all of that gas mileage. BUT I WANT MY POWER TOO.
What about a 380hp diesel wrangler with 600ft/lbs of torque...because that's what you are giving up.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:38 PM   #85
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What about a 380hp diesel wrangler with 600ft/lbs of torque...because that's what you are giving up.
That and a warranty? Where do I sign? Otherwise, no thanks.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #86
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That and a warranty? Where do I sign? Otherwise, no thanks.
Owning that tickastar has made you nervous about warranty issues huh?
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:44 PM   #87
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Owning that tickastar has made you nervous about warranty issues huh?
I'd rather have a tickastar with a warranty than a brand-new 7.3 diesel without one!

Besides, mines a tick-free 2013

(ok I may have exaggerated a bit about preferring the 3.6 over the ford diesel. but the warranty is important to me).
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:45 PM   #88
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That and a warranty? Where do I sign? Otherwise, no thanks.
After owning probably close to a dozen chipped vehicles, i have yet to find a dealer that can detect it, especially if you flash it back to stock before bringing it in. BMW and Audi are MUCH more careful for checking if their ECUs being tuned than Chrysler.
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:47 PM   #89
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Yes... I was in the Catskills. I could drop one gear at about 1700 and keep plugging along (manual trans w/3.73's and 315/70 Duratracs), any lower than that and the RPM and speed would just keep sinking. It could cruise and accelerate from about 2300 RPM on.

The altitude and even steeper grades where you're at probably makes things way worse. I live in Eastern PA, in a valley with short hills, so I'm kind of in a great place to have an underpowered vehicle as a daily driver. Central NY hills actually felt pretty tough.
Gotcha. Yeah out here the altitude chops it down and the gradients multiply that figure. Must be nice (quite diesel like) to be able to maintain speed at that rpm!
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Old 09-17-2013, 02:49 PM   #90
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Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 1,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
I'd rather have a tickastar with a warranty than a brand-new 7.3 diesel without one!

Besides, mines a tick-free 2013

(ok I may have exaggerated a bit about preferring the 3.6 over the ford diesel. but the warranty is important to me).
That was a good diesel. Had a 97 and a 2000. Also had a 87 6.9 liter.

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