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Old 09-14-2013, 06:16 PM   #1
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You tube of Rubicon CRD diesel wheeeling



I can't wait till this enters the US market maybe in 2015 or 16?

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Old 09-14-2013, 08:24 PM   #2
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A wrangler that uses a more expensive fuel source, lacks highway power, and needs even more maintenance to deal with Chrysler's lack of quality ?

Hopefully never.

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Old 09-14-2013, 08:32 PM   #3
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They build it and I will buy it....
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:39 PM   #4
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A wrangler that uses a more expensive fuel source, lacks highway power, and needs even more maintenance to deal with Chrysler's lack of quality ?

Hopefully never.
Lacks highway power? Please explain.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:50 PM   #5
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Lacks highway power? Please explain.
200 hp ain't much. For passing, accelerating uphill (loaded or unloaded), etc., horsepower is what counts.
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Old 09-14-2013, 08:53 PM   #6
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Pure torque. I loved seeing that puff of blue smoke in the middle of that video. Might have to make one of those #2.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:05 PM   #7
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Chrysler's lack of quality ?
So I guess you prefer the head gobbling 3.6?
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:23 PM   #8
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So I guess you prefer the head gobbling 3.6?
2013+ Pentastar is the way to go ...
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:34 PM   #9
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2013+ Pentastar is the way to go ...
We shall see. I would take the 3.0 ecodiesel over it any day.
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Old 09-14-2013, 09:41 PM   #10
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200 hp ain't much. For passing, accelerating uphill (loaded or unloaded), etc., horsepower is what counts.
ahhhh, you are from the school of whore's-power...j/k, love the HP vs. Torque fights.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:59 AM   #11
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ahhhh, you are from the school of whore's-power...j/k, love the HP vs. Torque fights.
I am from the school of physics.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:29 AM   #12
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:47 AM   #13
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I take it those knocking diesels in this thread haven't driven a turbo diesel from this decade. I'd take a well made diesel over the 3.6 any day.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:20 PM   #14
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I can tell you from experience as the owner of a 2012 Passat TDI sport with DSG... Diesels aint' slow..

I've never said "dang, I wish I had a gasser, I just don't have enough power to pass.."

Especially when warranty is up and I throw a Malone tune on..

Stage 1 tune for $499 > 153whp (173bhp) / 287lb-ft (324lb-ft crank) and still over 1100kms/tank for mileage!

I think Jeep should take some cues from VW or Mercedes Bluetec.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #15
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Years ago I had a MB 300 Turbo Diesel SEL. Impressive performance and impressive fuel economy. I was pretty happpy even when changing oil & filter was regularly eating a $100 bill "back then."

Despite proper maintenance & regular care, I was very unhappy when a broken cam chain at a MERE 121,000 miles left me stranded 300 miles from home.

Modern diesels don't stink or knock like the olden designs. Given my driving style is quite conservative I'd be willing to give one a try.

On the other hand, my mechanic drove an identical Ram 2500 4x4, except his was the mighty Cummins diesel....and he did mods to crank out 500+hp to pull his horse trailer.

Still, his handled like an agricultural implement where mine was in comparison more like a nimble sport car. Additional weight bias from the massive block made considerable changes in the handling of long-wheelbase pickups. Don't know what it does to the lawn-tractor handling of a Wrangler.

This gets down to the "blonds/brunettes/redheads" type of choice.....they all eat your paycheck regardless of their virtues.

Which we put up with is a personal matter.

I liked the slow motion mudder technique allowed by the diesel torque.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:25 PM   #16
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We shall see. I would take the 3.0 ecodiesel over it any day.
Close call for me. I'd like the fuel economy of the diesel, but the 285 hp is still going to beat 240 hp passing, trying to accelerate a load up a steep hill, etc. 240 hp is getting pretty close though.

No way in heck I'd want a 200 hp diesel over a 285 hp gas engine in a vehicle as heavy as a JKU.
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:22 PM   #17
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Omg!!! I have never heard someone so miss informed about what moves mass.. TORQUE!!! Trucks, whether semi or even any diesel pickup it's all about TORQUE!!! The 3.0L ecodiesel in a wrangler would stomp a big hole in the pentastar. There's my 2 pennies!!
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Old 09-15-2013, 08:52 PM   #18
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Omg!!! I have never heard someone so miss informed about what moves mass.. TORQUE!!! Trucks, whether semi or even any diesel pickup it's all about TORQUE!!! The 3.0L ecodiesel in a wrangler would stomp a big hole in the pentastar. There's my 2 pennies!!
The problem with a gas engine is you have to rev the crap out of it to get the power you need to haul a heavy load. The Pentastar is not going to lose a towing race to a diesel (with the notable exception of from a stop to about 25 mph) because it lacks torque (or power). It might overheat, the driver might decide not to rev it at 6000 RPM for extended periods of time, it might blow up and throw a piston through the oil pan. But, at any time the Pentastar is making more power than the diesel engine with the same load, the Pentastar will out-accelerate the diesel engine with the same load. There is absolutely no way around this.

I think a diesel would make a great engine for a Wrangler, and I'd consider the 3.0 myself for sure. But I wouldn't do it thinking I was going to out-accelerate a 285 hp engine with my 240 hp engine.

The first gear exception? That's when the diesel is making more POWER than the gas engine. Once that Pentastar gets to about 4500 RPM or so, full throttle, the show is over.
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:55 PM   #19
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Obviously you have not driven a modern diesel powered vehicle. 260tq vs 420tq winner winner.... Popcorn!! I own both.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:51 PM   #20
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if you have a diesel out-accelerating a gas engine with a comparable load, the diesel engine is making more power during your comparison.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:09 PM   #21
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It seams some people are not aware that HP is a byproduct of torque? You can have and use torque with very little HP under high load but you can't have and use HP with very little torque under the same load.


It does you NO good to be making higher HP at 6 grand if you don't have the torque to even get up that high of an RPM under load.

Some folks need to Oppen a book or use Google and learn something.........
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:30 PM   #22
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Hp is, indeed, a function of engine torque. your point about needing to get up to higher rpm is exactly my point about first gear advantage for diesel. this is why gas engines need steep gears to pull heavy loads.

also, diesels typically have a flatter power curve - they fall off less relative to the peak. more transmission ratios are very important for gas engines with heavy loads.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:49 PM   #23
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I think a diesel would make a great engine for a Wrangler, and I'd consider the 3.0 myself for sure. But I wouldn't do it thinking I was going to out-accelerate a 285 hp engine with my 240 hp engine.
By looking at these specs, the diesel does out accelerate the tickastar(pentastar)

2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee EcoDiesel V-6 First Drive – Review – Car and Driver
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee V-6 / V-8 First Drive – Review – Car and Driver
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:50 PM   #24
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Diesel fuel cost is a pretty consistent 20%-20% more than gasoline at the pump where I live. I'd consider the extra usable torque advantage that a diesel might provide in some situations a true advantage ( -vs- a trade off) if it also gave me a solid 20-25% better gas mileage as well. The Grand Cherokee CRD guys are posting "real world" highway numbers between 20 and 25MPG - bearing in mind the GC weights more, but has better aerodynamics...
I'd also have to see how it plays in a Wrangler with rear end and transmission gearing as it is. These repurposed Sprinter Van engines are suppose to be good, but are not renowned for being of the same "performance" class as VW and Mercedes passenger car engines, nor are they Cummins diesel "workhorses" either. They are designed to drive around urban centers 12 to 18 hours a day and deliver things without breaking down. I have doubts about towing 7500lbs with a Wrangler as well... or at least, a with a coil sprung Wrangler optimized for daily driving and off-roading.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:56 PM   #25
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i think a gc has something like a 3.07 axle ratio. Here the diesel is making more average power, partly a function of gearing and partly a function of having a flatter power curve.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:08 AM   #26
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i think a gc has something like a 3.07 axle ratio. Here the diesel is making more average power, partly a function of gearing and partly a function of having a flatter power curve.
Regardless, it wins. The aftermarket would jump all over a diesel wrangler. It would not take long for banks, ppe, bully dog, or any other diesel performance shop to develop a performance tune that would blow the doors off of the pentastar or the hemi for that matter.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:10 AM   #27
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Regardless, it wins. The aftermarket would jump all over a diesel wrangler. It would not take long for banks, ppe, bully dog, or any other diesel performance shop to develop a performance tune that would blow the doors off of the pentastar or the hemi for that matter.
if it wins it makes more average power.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:22 AM   #28
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and those arent even measured times!
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:23 AM   #29
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are there any mechanical engineers out there? as in abet bachelors degree.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:15 AM   #30
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I do love a good diesel. But let's be real. These are wranglers. Not Ram 2500's. No amount of torque will matter much without an extended wheelbase. It's not going to become a tow master regardless.

The vast majority of us don't have 37"+ tires and crawl over rocks all day. So while gobs of low end torque is cool, that isn't where most owners spend the majority of their time. There is a reason why modern diesels are changing so much (lighter, higher revving etc)

The 240hp diesel in the wrangler is not going to beat a pstar in a drag race. You can mod it sure, but you can mod the V6 too thanks to Ripp and others.

Fuel cost more, service, parts and maintenance are sure to be higher as well.

Don't get me wrong, if they build one I would take a serious look at it. Not because I need it though. Just because it would be flat out cool.I have to say though, if they built a hemi wrangler as well it would be no contest as to which box to check.

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