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Old 06-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #1
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2.5l to gm 3.4l swap advice

Hi all, this is my first post, me and my brother are planning an engine swap in his TJ and could use a little advice. I know that the 3.4l is not the best engine but we have access to an almost free 94 camaro donor car and the 2.5l engine is toast(dropped a valve). I want to use the existing ax5 transmission. I am going to swap in the ecm/harness from the camaro and convert the jeep fuel system to a return system. I need to know what flywheel and clutch I can use with the ax5 trans, some say an s10 flywheel will work, others say the 2.5 flywheel can be machined and neutral balanced and reused. also, any easy ways for the motor mounts or am I going to have to cut and weld new ones? thanks in advance.

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Old 06-17-2012, 02:14 AM   #2
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I wouldn't recommend using the ax5 behind anything, even the motor it comes behind

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Old 06-17-2012, 05:09 AM   #3
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I wouldn't recommend using the ax5 behind anything, even the motor it comes behind
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:10 AM   #4
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There are many issues with using the engine choice you are looking at! Your gages won't work for one. You need new gm swap engine mounts. New radiator. You will need to add a fuel return line as well.

Then as stated above the ax5 is a turd of a transmission and I know of three of them locally that don't have 5th gearand anymore right now.

The cost benefit of the swap you are proposing, just not worth the trouble if you ask me. In fact the only gm swap worth doing anymore is a ls swap which is quite costly.

If you want to do a swap on a low dough build budget do a magnum v8 . They are cheaper, much easier and abundant for swaping into a jeep.
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Old 06-17-2012, 01:46 PM   #5
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I know but the the trans is staying for now, just need to get the jeep back on the road, I'm very aware of their turd like qualities. As I stated before I am planning on converting to a return fuel system already. I can cut the mounts off the camaro and build from there or just make new mounts out of stock, this is not an issue and will cost almost nothing. The gauges will work, I am leaving the stock pcm in place just to run the fuel gauge, speedo and coolant gauge(sensor from jeep will be mounted on the 3.4l). all unnecessary wiring for old the 2.5 will be removed. The camaro engine fuse box and VATS module (bypassed) will be brought over and interfaced with the jeep fuse box. I specialize in automotive electrical and have done much more complex swaps than this. I dont see why the radiator hoses could be made/plumed and adapt the engine to the jeep radiator. I know that the 3.4l is not ideal at all but the fact that it bolts up to the trans, is a small/narrow package and that I have a wrecked donor car for almost nothing makes me want to do it. The only thing I am planning to spend money on is the clutch/flywheel if I need to, if I can get that figured out then I can do this swap for very little money.
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Old 06-17-2012, 05:52 PM   #6
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Just curious but if it's only a valve why not just have the head rebuilt or do it yourself??! Instead of a swap that isn't worth the cost or time...
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Old 06-17-2012, 06:21 PM   #7
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Leave the Chevy engine in the Camero

This is a bad idea from the start, your best bet for the same amount of money is to buy a used engine from a yard, there are plenty, it's a plug and play, you don't have to re-engineer the entire vehicle.

Then there is the reliability problem with a Frankenstein Jeep, not to mention the problem you would have in a resale, a dealer won't touch it. They will ask if you have ever tampered with the smog control. If you live in a state with a smog inspection you won't get passed.

There are some great sites these guys can recommend. I just looked one up to see what a 97 4.0 would cost if I ever needed one, it was about $650!

My 2 cents says.....Leave the Chevy engine in the Camero.
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #8
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Just curious but if it's only a valve why not just have the head rebuilt or do it yourself??! Instead of a swap that isn't worth the cost or time...
it dropped(broke off and fell down) and bashed the piston pretty bad, took the electrode on the spark plug clean off too.

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This is a bad idea from the start, your best bet for the same amount of money is to buy a used engine from a yard, there are plenty, it's a plug and play, you don't have to re-engineer the entire vehicle.

Then there is the reliability problem with a Frankenstein Jeep, not to mention the problem you would have in a resale, a dealer won't touch it. They will ask if you have ever tampered with the smog control. If you live in a state with a smog inspection you won't get passed.

There are some great sites these guys can recommend. I just looked one up to see what a 97 4.0 would cost if I ever needed one, it was about $650!

My 2 cents says.....Leave the Chevy engine in the Camero.
thanks for the advice, but we dont have smog and this jeep is a rusted heap from up north with little resale value. I can make it some what reliable and fix what breaks. this is a more of a project just to do it with what we have on hand. From what I have heard the 4.0 is a more intensive swap, and all the local 2.5l I have found are worn out heaps or very high priced. I'm not asking for advice on what engine to put in, just would really like to know what clutch/flywheel combo would work.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #9
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so I yanked the engine out of the junker camaro, it was shame, that thing was clean and only had 58k on it. I think the guy said he let his girlfriend borrow the car. anyhow I pulled 2.5 turd as well and set aside. So, its def a direct bolt up, not sure on mounts just yet, need to get the flywheel situation figured out before I test fit the engine. 2.5 flywheel on the 3.4 is a definite no go, googled and searched everywhere and came up with a lot of old 2.8l to 3.4 cherokee info but no 2.5 swaps, just a bunch of people talking about it or broken links. Read somewhere that an early s10 2.8 was neutral balanced, so I went down to the local crap parts dealer and grabbed an s10 2.8l flywheel and it bolted right up, starter works and all. 2.5l pilot bearing I removed from the old flywheel did not go into the 3.4l crank. also took some measurements and the s10 flywheel is 10mm thinner and sits 10mm closer to the rear engine flat surface. 2.5l clutch bolts up but the s10 flywheel but I dont think it will disengage with 10mm of travel lost. Im going to pick-up an 85 cherokee 2.8l clutch kit and see if the if the pressure plate is a little thicker to make up the difference.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:22 PM   #10
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Check Novak for a pilot bearing. They have a kit for putting a SM420 chevy trans behind the 2.5 so maybe some of their stuff might help. Bet the 420 would drop into your 3.4 setup. If you could find a used one cheap now would be the time. Or at least start looking for parts.
Good luck on the swap.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:39 PM   #11
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it dropped(broke off and fell down) and bashed the piston pretty bad, took the electrode on the spark plug clean off too.


thanks for the advice, but we dont have smog and this jeep is a rusted heap from up north with little resale value. I can make it some what reliable and fix what breaks. this is a more of a project just to do it with what we have on hand. From what I have heard the 4.0 is a more intensive swap, and all the local 2.5l I have found are worn out heaps or very high priced. I'm not asking for advice on what engine to put in, just would really like to know what clutch/flywheel combo would work.
Understood. Good luck with getting everything put together. Will def be a unique jeep. Post some pics when your done.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:46 PM   #12
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top: 2.5 clutch, bottom left to right, 2.5 flywheel, new s10 2.8l neutral balanced flywheel, and last on the right is the auto camaro flexplate. Thanks gunner, I have the pilot bushing figured out, and I want to keep this ax5 compatible for now to limit spending and after future trans explosions it will be able to be upgraded same as the 2.5 would.
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Tonight's findings: s10 flywheel(left) not gonna work, 2.5 pressure plate/disk bolts up to it fine, but 10mm at flywheel is a mile at the clutch pedal so I'm pretty confident to say this at very best would be a gear grinder if you could get it to shift at all. Picked up a '85 XJ 2.8l clutch kit today. I was hoping the pressure plate was some how 10mm thicker to compensate but it was the same exact thing pretty much as the 2.5l, But I found this kit comes with a pilot bushing(not bearing like 2.5) that fits the ax5 and the 3.4l perfectly, so problem solved there. Going tomorrow to return the clutch kit find an XJ flywheel, and if it is the missing link between the two engines like I think it is then its going to the machine shop to get that balance weight turned off it. Then I am going to get an XJ pilot bushing and try to cram it in the hole.
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:35 PM   #13
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3.4l in all its glory patiently waiting
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the ax5 awaiting destruction, the engine harness is bungied up to the top of the hood. This is the simplest OBD2 harness I have ever seen. Not going to cut into it until the 3.4l is running. Like I said the stock pcm will stay just to relay fuel level, vehicle speed and coolant temp to the cluster via the data bus. I will strip down the harness to bare minimum after it is running and everything is working. I will try to do a write-up on the wiring so others can attempt. gm obd1 DLC will be wired somewhere dry for scan tool communications. Click image for larger version

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underhood fuse box, underhood body harness, brackets, and all kinds of random pieces I scavenged from the donor car that might be useful later.

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pretty nice camaro after meeting an unfortunate driver, my sawzall and an engine hoist.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:02 PM   #14
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2.5l flywheel and crank, the flywheel has a shoulder that is received by the crank, the v6 is the opposite having the shoulder on the crank that inserts into the flywheel. 2.5l flywheel bolt holes and bolts are bigger than the v6 also.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:32 PM   #15
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these are the two harnesses are the only thing interfacing with the rest of the jeep. the one on the right is the more important one with the battery and injector power, fuel pump relay control, electric fan control, stuff like that. the cut one on the left has a bunch of wires that wont get used like a/c controls, VSS output, VATS signal, brake switch(for TCC kill). alot of those power inputs have their own fuse in the camaro i/p fuse box inside the car. These will be routed to a rewired camaro underhood fuse box mounted in the jeep engine compartment. The camaro electric fan will most likely be mounted on the stock leaking jeep radiator with homemade bracketry made from pieces of camaro.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:39 AM   #16
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You might check with these guys. They have some 2800/3.4l conversions. Look at the list on 6 cylinders.
Engine Option List - 6 cyl
Its to put them into VW's and the VW has a much thicker flywheel than the chevy one.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #17
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You might check with these guys. They have some 2800/3.4l conversions. Look at the list on 6 cylinders.
Engine Option List - 6 cyl
Its to put them into VW's and the VW has a much thicker flywheel than the chevy one.
those guys appear to be VW gurus, not sure if they would know about jeeps. I think the XJ flywheel is going to work, if not I will do further digging. Both of these vehicles are over 15 years old, I cant believe the lack of information on the web about this swap, especially since I hear how common it is and the shear numbers of both vehicles on the road. I wonder if someone makes a VW water cooled 4 banger engine adapter for the a jeep, like acme adapters makes for yota's and sammy's. Then you could put an ALH 1.9 diesel in one. I have a jetta with a modified ALH that puts out 180hp and 300ftlb, it will leave rubber on the pavement and still get 55+ mpg on the highway.
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:39 PM   #18
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I have recently decided to do the same swap and would be very interest in knowing how yours is going as well as any advice you may have along the way
my 2.5 is on its last leg and about to take an eternal dirt nap.
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:50 AM   #19
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I have recently decided to do the same swap and would be very interest in knowing how yours is going as well as any advice you may have along the way
my 2.5 is on its last leg and about to take an eternal dirt nap.
sorry I haven't posted anything, I guess I'm not getting email notifications. Its going good, got a little more time to work on the truck recently. camaro flywheel or clutch is a big no go. Used the early 90's s10 flywheel and 2.5l clutch, spaced the release fork pivot ball out with a couple washers. clutch releases perfect, just like it did before. splines still engage the disk about 3/4 of the way. Really should have the bellhousing machined about 1/4'' but I think It will hold up fine for now. when the ax15 goes in will be the time for that. I cut the old mount perches off the frame, re-welded them a couple inches lower and more forward to line up with the 3.4l. used the old jeep mounts, cut the brackets for the 3.4 and 2.5 in half, bolted the motor up and put it where I wanted it, then I tacked them together. removed them and beefed them up with some flat bar I had laying around. I have a 3'' body lift and the drivers exhaust manifold almost touches the pinch weld at the firewall, I actually trimmed it a little with the sawzall. If you dont have the body lift I would recommend placing the engine a little further forward as there is miles of room between the radiator and engine but this might mean shorting and lengthening drive shafts, shifters, ect. camero throttle cable fit but I had to take some of the slack out if it at the pedal. camaro fan is a perfect fit for the jeep radiator with some trimming and drilling holes(its plastic, piece of cake). Just got the PCM back today, had madtuners disable VATS and tune it up some, needs premium now. Ran a 5/16 return line all the way to the gas fill tube where the metal extension pipe is for the body lift, drilled and taped a 1/4'' NPT hole in it and screwed in a steel 3/8 hose to 1/4''NPT heater hose adapter I got from the auto parts store, welded around that to prevent it from ever leaking. hit the fuel pump and because the jeep fuel pressure is higher, the regulator returns nicely even with the engine off and high manifold pressure, so no further mods to the pump are needed. took the jeep power steering line and bent it a little so it would screw into the gm pump. The camaro exhaust(y-pipe)is a little too wide for the narrow jeep frame so I'm gonna cut and trim it to fit, its a pretty large exhaust for a V6. jumpered the ignition wires to the battery tonight and lit it off, sounds like a race car with no exhaust, moved it a few inches, clutch feels great. doing the wiring tomorrow, gotta fit some heater and radiator hoses, make a bracket for the extra PCM, finish the exhaust, find a non ac belt and I'm done.
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Old 07-31-2012, 01:04 AM   #20
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looking back I think it would have been better to use the camaro flywheel and use a bellhousing spacer. the camaro manual flywheel was too thick, the 2.5 clutch bolted up fine but it stuck out so far the disk was jammed into the release bearing guide tube and wouldnt release, a spacer about 1/4'' or so would put it where it needs to be. This would also give you a little more clearance at the firewall.
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:47 AM   #21
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Pics?
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Old 07-31-2012, 12:28 PM   #22
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I'll get some more up later, was out late last night and got a real late start today on it.
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Old 07-31-2012, 04:16 PM   #23
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And this is that new camaro engine that gets around 300 hp and 30 mpg all from a V6 right? Or am I thinking of the mustangs?
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:51 PM   #24
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And this is that new camaro engine that gets around 300 hp and 30 mpg all from a V6 right? Or am I thinking of the mustangs?
thats a negative, this is motor is from '94, it has 160hp/200ftlb
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Old 07-31-2012, 09:58 PM   #25
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thats a negative, this is motor is from '94, it has 160hp/200ftlb
Oops my bad lol. Still sounds good to me though.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:49 AM   #26
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passenger side mount perch, relocated

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got about 90% of the wiring done today, starts with the key now. I plugged away at it since I slacked off yesterday. pcm bracket is a perfect fit for the fender as well as the radiator fan. seems like a lot more things line up with this swap than just the bellhousing.

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Rewired fuse box in place, cut the bracket off the camaro frame and screwed it to the fender, this way it still slides off easily. I took power from the main battery cable lug on the jeep fuse box and I re-used the fusible links from the camaro to link them. Some stuff looks pretty tight around the rear of the motor, just in case it needs to get pulled again I made it so all you have to do is unplug about 3 connectors, the pcm connectors, unbolt the fusible links from the jeep fuse box and slide off the camaro one, and the whole harness comes with it. would take all of 45 seconds. The jeep has a puny little 10 amp ignition feed from the switch to the front fuse box, the ASD relay is turned on by the pcm and handles all the bigger loads. Not sure if that is still going to work any more and I didnt want a failure from the old jeep pcm causing a breakdown situation, so I took the ignition power from the front fuse box and fed it to a main relay(re-used ABS relay) and that powers all the fuses to the left as well as one to the right, simulating ignition power in the camaro. Got a few more wires to do then I'm gonna wrap it up so it looks like it belongs there.
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rice burner hot air intake for now, a snorkel is in the future. tomorrow its exhaust and coolant hoses and hopefully a test drive. ended up paying $300 for the donor afterall, but so far only $50 for a s10 flywheel, $160 for a pcm tune, $25 airfilter, $50 for a new P/S line(old one was rusted into the box), and probably another $150 for misc stuff like belt, fluids, hoses, clamps, connectors, welding wire/gas, metal. still ahead of the $1000 4 banger replacement engine and way cooler. You guys need to check out 60degreev6.com, there are some on there that put down some serious numbers. the reliability issues of the 2.8's from the 80's were due to poor machining and build quality, it was a prototype engine that went production, those days are long gone. By the time the 3.1land the 3.4 came out, other than leaking intake gaskets, they were well built motors. I talked to some people that have stuffed v8's in these trucks and their main complaint was that it made it too heavy, they had to put bigger springs on the front. The truck sits exactly the same as it did, the motor doesnt seem any heavier than that antique 4 banger that came out.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:47 PM   #27
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holy cow this thing screams, this mad tuner guy knows how to tune, I've never seen a 60degree motor that had balls like this, it runs excelent, and I still have a tank of old regular gas in it. Its like a whole different truck, transmision is def next on the list.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:27 AM   #28
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any knews? im interested to see how it all works out. i have a wmipy little 2.5 in my tj, and maybe next summer i wanna see about dropping a V6 into it...maybe. haha
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:40 PM   #29
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runs great, my bros is very happy with it, I got my garage back, I'm happy. He tows a boat with it sometimes, and it has 33's and stock gears, its was very scary with the 2.5, now the v6 pulls it like its nothing. we are both very happy with the way it turned out, runs great, very smooth, no vibration at all, all the gauges work, clutch is great, trans is holding for now, never driven a 4.0l but this v6 feels like twice the power of the 2.5. I would say it was pretty easy swap, welding in the mounts and the wiring was the only thing that wasn't a piece of cake, I def recommend going for it.
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:48 PM   #30
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donor car is the way to go, I used so much stuff off that car that and saved me a bunch of money

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