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Old 01-27-2011, 09:54 AM   #1
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35" tires w/stock dana 30 and 35

I'm new to the forum and to the jeep world and I am getting ready to buy a lift and tires for my 97 tj. The question I have is if i buy 35" tires what is the likely hood of the axle tubes bending if im only doing moderate off roading for now. I also plan on gearing it and beefing up the axles aafter acquiring the lift and tires. Or should i just go with 33"s. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:04 AM   #2
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If you run 35s on a D35 you will always run the risk of breaking it. Most people will say that 33s is about the biggest size you would want to push with a D35. If you are wanting 35s, you can invest in a super 35 kit...which will upgrade your shafts to chromoly (i think) with a higher spline count. It will also include a locker. Another option is finding a D44 that was previously on a jeep and swapping that in the rear. Another popular option (the way I went) is upgrading to a ford 8.8 axle. This is not a bolt up mod though. If you go this route, you will need to have fabrication skills, or a friend that has them because you will be welding on all new bracketry on the Ford axle.

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Old 01-27-2011, 10:09 AM   #3
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thanks. I wanted to upgrade to dana 44's later but can only do gears and lockers right now. so I guess i will just go with the 33"s to be safe
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:31 AM   #4
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Locking the D35 without doing the super 35 kit from superior axle is risky business.. Unlocked and 33's you should be fine or even with limited slips.. But not a full locker.. Unless you do the super 35 I wouldn't recommend investing gears or a locker into that axle.. You'll only have to go back and buy another locker and regear the D44 or F8.8 when the D35 goes boom..
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:16 AM   #5
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i was going to go with the detroit truloc b/c its a lsd type carrier and you gotta buy a carrier to get a ring and pinion with the right gear ratio for the larger tires. they sounded good cause they werent a full locker and i didnt want to invest to much in these axles since i want to upgrade later.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:20 AM   #6
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Good call.. If you are gonna invest anything into the D35 a lsd will hold up much better than a true locker in that axle..
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:15 PM   #7
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Hey, a newbie question: if you regear a D35, can you transfer those gears to the D44 later? Thanks!
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:24 PM   #8
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D44s are a waste of money. Better of with a ford 8.8 or a super 35 kit.
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:28 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wranglernut View Post
Hey, a newbie question: if you regear a D35, can you transfer those gears to the D44 later? Thanks!
That's a big no. As the gears have different physical sizes. the reason why people swap to bigger axles.

Some sweet tech info on the D35 vs D44 vs F8.8

Warn Axle Test
Axle................Dana 35......Dana 44.......Ford 8.8
Weight............155............167.............1 74
RingGearDia......7.56...........8.5..............8 .8
Pinion Dia.........1.4(26sp)....1.37(30sp)....1.62(30sp)
Axle Dia...........1.16(27sp)..1.30(30sp)....1.32(31sp)
Tube Dia..........2.5"............2.75"...........3.25"
Disks...............no.............Rubicons....... all 95+
Break Strength..4161 ftlb....5982 ftlb.......6200+ ftlb**

**The machine Warn used to test axle breakage maxed out at 6200; at which
the 8.8 had yet to break. Estimates of 8.8 breakage were in the 6400 range.
************************************************** ****

OEM and Aftermarket Axle Shaft Ratings
(seems very conservative)

O.E.M Dana 44 30-spline shafts - 2835 lb/ft
O.E.M Ford 88 31-spline shafts - 3725 lb/ft
Super Dana 44 33-spline shafts - 3969 lb/ft
O.E.M Dana 60 35-spline shafts - 4557 lb/ft
Yukon Ford 88 31-spline shafts - 5131 lb/ft
Yukon Dana 60 35-spline shafts - 6380 lb/ft



Point to point the F8.8 is stronger. I have the d44 with LSD in mine but the Jeep d44's are wimpy compared to true d44's(bigger tube diameter and thicker). I am going to get an 8.8 or 9 and sell my d44. An 8.8 with the C-clip eliminator with yukon axles can handle locked 37's all day. Especially after being trussed.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:42 PM   #10
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I have been doing some light wheeling with my new 02 TJ with stock axles, 4 inch rancho lift and 35 inch tires. I just got it last month, and now Im wondering if the wheels are too big and going to cause problems. Should I downsize to 33" or keep doing my thing until I break it? How much would an upgrade to a Ford 8.8 cost.
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Old 01-27-2011, 11:34 PM   #11
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I have a 99 4.0 with d35 and Yukon's ultmate 35 kit with an OX locker 4.56. Had it for years with no problems at all and I do some pretty good trails with it. If I was going to do it over...8.8.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:03 AM   #12
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my old 35 lasted over 200,000 miles with 33's and 35s never broke a thing . Drive it like you have a 35 in it and I woudn't put a dime in it just keep an eye out for a 44 or and 8.8 both are fine and both have their advantages. I installed an 8.8 in it because it was a deal I could not resist and sold the 35
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Old 01-28-2011, 09:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RojoTJ03 View Post
I have been doing some light wheeling with my new 02 TJ with stock axles, 4 inch rancho lift and 35 inch tires. I just got it last month, and now Im wondering if the wheels are too big and going to cause problems. Should I downsize to 33" or keep doing my thing until I break it? How much would an upgrade to a Ford 8.8 cost.
You can get an 8.8 fully setup to be bolt on from eastcoastgearsupply.com $750(everything you need, good used brakes, used gears, used shafts, 1310 yoke flange, and e-brake cables)-$2850(1310 forged yoke, ARB locker, all new brakes, c-clip eliminator with chromo shafts, new gears of your choice installed with new bearings and seals, and solid diff cover)

I live near a Pick'n'Pull where I can pick up any axle for 80 bucks from caliper to caliper and everything in between. Throw in a detroit locker for 500, buy all the brackets at polyperformance or ballistic fab for under 200. Get gears and have them installed by the local 4x4 shop for 500 total. I am in for 1300. 1400 if you have the shop weld on the brackets for you.

A super 35 kit makes the d35 just as strong as a stock d44. So a super 35 kit with Detroit costs you 850, then the 300 to get it installed(that's with reusing your old gears if you want new gears add at least 300 more) Now your at the same cost as the 8.8 the only difference now is that the 8.8 has a much more strength than the super35 as the ring gear is much larger the tubes are larger and thicker, the shafts are thicker and maybe the 1 extra spline can help. Also you can grab replacement shafts at any auto shop and junk yards have literally hundreds of 40 dollar spare sets. I may never upgrade to the c-clip eliminator kit due to the vast supply of super cheap replacement shafts.

I will say the super 35 kit is real good. I have a pedal happy guy in my jeep group that use to break his d35 all the time pretty much every other outing, with 35's and a lockright locker. He got the super35 with the detroit and didn't have another problem with it. Oh and he is selling that jeep to if anyone is interested. (novajeepers.com main site is down so all I got is a link to there craptastic .net site that won't be valid for to long hopefully)
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:46 AM   #14
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Their are a lot of threads on the Turdy-Five at every Jeep Forum . Do search's on them you will find many different opinions and experiences which will help you make an educated decision while the money is still in your pocket.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:34 PM   #15
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Does the super 35 kit fix the cclip?
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:40 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Shokker View Post
Does the super 35 kit fix the cclip?
The c-clip eliminator is a fairly new development as in 3 years or so. The new super 35 kits should come with the eliminator. Older kits can still have c-clip in them though.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:08 PM   #17
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May sound dumb but can someone explain c-clips and all that? I'm looking to upgrade to 35's sometime in the future and need some info. I would want to keep the stock axles and do a super 35 kit in the rear, 4.65 gears from superior, and some sort of locker in the front. How well would this hold up/perform for all around off roading? Sorry about the hijacking, I'm too lazy to make a new thread.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:07 PM   #18
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May sound dumb but can someone explain c-clips and all that? I'm looking to upgrade to 35's sometime in the future and need some info. I would want to keep the stock axles and do a super 35 kit in the rear, 4.65 gears from superior, and some sort of locker in the front. How well would this hold up/perform for all around off roading? Sorry about the hijacking, I'm too lazy to make a new thread.
There are three basic types of solid axles. C-clip, semi float, and full float.

C-clips(D35c)
The c-clip axle shafts are retained only by a c-clip in the carrier. So if the axle breaks the entire wheel assembly can slip right off if you have drums and if you have disc your wheel is dependant on the two tiny caliper bolts. The axle shaft are used to retain the wheel assembly, carry the load, and transfer torque to the wheel.



Semi Float(D44)
Semi float axles like the d44 have a wheel flange that mounts with four bolts at both ends of the axle. The axle shaft normally rides on a bearing near the ends of the axle. So if the axle shaft breaks you can remove the inner portion of the broken axle and carry on your marry way(BACK TO CAMP) but with no power in the axle. The axle shaft is used to carry the load and transmit torque to the wheel.


Full floating(some D60-70, F9" and others, mainly only in full size trucks)
The entire load of the vehicle rides on a bearing and the axle shaft is splined to slide in it. The axle hubs can be locked and unlocked just like front locking hubs (this is great for flat towing).If the axle shaft breaks you can remove the entire axle shaft and be on your marry way all the way back home. The axle shaft is only responsible for transmitting torque to the wheel.



Due to the fact that full floating axles only have to send torque to the wheels a full floating axle will always be capable of more loading and stress than the exact same axle that is semi floating.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:10 PM   #19
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You can see a c-clip sitting between the two bolts towards the right. Dead-center to the left of the right-most gear inside the differential, you can see the slot in the axle shaft that the c-clip fits into.

There is one for each rear axle shaft and they hold the axle shaft into the axle housing. They are inserted into the slot you can see above, it holds the axle shaft in place. Since that clip is the only thing that holds the axle shaft into the differential, the axle shaft can slide out and depart the axle housing if the axle shaft breaks, leaving the unbroken-half still held by the c-clip inside the axle tube.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:18 PM   #20
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isnt a super 35 kit only alloy axles and a locker...i have both- so do i have a homeade 35 kit?
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:31 PM   #21
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isnt a super 35 kit only alloy axles and a locker...i have both- so do i have a homeade 35 kit?
The super 35 comes in a stronger 30 spline axle shafts.
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Old 01-28-2011, 09:13 PM   #22
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! had a D35 with a Detriot locker and 35's, blew it up quick doing donuts in a field after a rain storm...no good... dont build one either, waste of money. Do an 8.8 and dont look back or plan on getting stranded in the middle of a field somewhere, losing your brand new brakes and blowing a hole in the sidewall of your brand new 35" Good year mtr getting it on the trailer like i did ... F*CK the D35.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:01 PM   #23
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So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:28 PM   #24
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! had a D35 with a Detriot locker and 35's, blew it up quick doing donuts in a field after a rain storm...no good... dont build one either, waste of money. Do an 8.8 and dont look back or plan on getting stranded in the middle of a field somewhere, losing your brand new brakes and blowing a hole in the sidewall of your brand new 35" Good year mtr getting it on the trailer like i did ... F*CK the D35.
First off.. you blew it because you were doing donuts with 35's and a FULL locker without upgraded shafts. That would most likely blow a d44 as well. Axles break very easily when you have a wheel spining very fast with no traction that suddenly gets traction and stops violently.

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So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
In order to use 30 spline axle shafts you must change out the carrier to be compatible. You can reuse your old gears but will have to be set back up by a professional.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:19 AM   #25
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I'm sorry, but I thought this was too humorous to pass up:

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An 8.8 with the C-clip eliminator with yukon axles can handle locked 37's all day. Especially after being trussed.
I lol'ed at how you proclaim the 8.8 is super strong if we'll just allow you to improve upon its weak spots. This is kinda like saying a Toyota Prius is a fabulous drag car if you do an engine swap to a blown Hemi... and convert it to RWD... and add wheelie bars.

To anyone with a D35 rear axle who wants to upgrade their rig, I think spending money on the D35 is unwise. If you end up having to upgrade the axle in the future, you'll have to re-spend all your upgrade money all over again. Buying the same mod twice isn't my idea of fun.

If you do have a D35 and want to go stronger, swapping in an 8.8 is a great idea--it is a good axle. But for those with a D44, odds are very good that they are set for life. Seriously, the OEM D44 is strong enough for at least 99% of TJ owners out there.

And for the lunatic fringe that demands more--say, someone who is converting their TJ into a trail buggy to enter professional rockcrawling competitions--then even those guys will pass up the 8.8 because it, too, is too weak for their needs. Those guys are going straight for the Dana60.
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Old 01-29-2011, 09:46 AM   #26
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I'm sorry, but I thought this was too humorous to pass up:



I lol'ed at how you proclaim the 8.8 is super strong if we'll just allow you to improve upon its weak spots. This is kinda like saying a Toyota Prius is a fabulous drag car if you do an engine swap to a blown Hemi... and convert it to RWD... and add wheelie bars.

To anyone with a D35 rear axle who wants to upgrade their rig, I think spending money on the D35 is unwise. If you end up having to upgrade the axle in the future, you'll have to re-spend all your upgrade money all over again. Buying the same mod twice isn't my idea of fun.

If you do have a D35 and want to go stronger, swapping in an 8.8 is a great idea--it is a good axle. But for those with a D44, odds are very good that they are set for life. Seriously, the OEM D44 is strong enough for at least 99% of TJ owners out there.

And for the lunatic fringe that demands more--say, someone who is converting their TJ into a trail buggy to enter professional rockcrawling competitions--then even those guys will pass up the 8.8 because it, too, is too weak for their needs. Those guys are going straight for the Dana60.

Sure you could use a Dana 60 but I would rather not go with the heavy axle that makes me lose ground clearance and costs so much more. It's like saying why use a D60 when you can use a 14 bolt or a D70 or rockwells. They all have there advantages and there disadvantages. And isn't improving the weakness of our vehicles why we are all on the forum? If 37's is all someone will want to run for 3 years an 8.8 that you spend under a thousand dollars on could be the ticket(just don't do donuts). And a D60 where the price can easily go to 2 thousand could be considered overkill. I never proclaimed it is super strong, you have to beef it up. I only said the 8.8 in it's strongest form because alot of people are stupid when it comes to driving offroad and anyone can break any axle it they don't now how to drive it right.

That's ridiculous says the man swapping a v8 into a miata
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:47 AM   #27
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It's like saying why use a D60 when you can use a 14 bolt or a D70 or rockwells. They all have there advantages and there disadvantages.

If 37's is all someone will want to run for 3 years an 8.8 that you spend under a thousand dollars on could be the ticket(just don't do donuts). And a D60 where the price can easily go to 2 thousand could be considered overkill.

I only said the 8.8 in it's strongest form because alot of people are stupid when it comes to driving offroad and anyone can break any axle it they don't now how to drive it right.
I agree with everything you said here.

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And isn't improving the weakness of our vehicles why we are all on the forum?
And I especially agree with this statement.

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That's ridiculous says the man swapping a v8 into a miata
I suppose I have been guilty of overkill on occasion, yes. Someday I'll have to tell you about my former minivan which could--and did--outrun a WRX STI at my local drag strip.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:14 AM   #28
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So wouldn't you need to change gears if you upgraded to a 30 spline shaft from the stock 27 spline?
No, you can use the same gears. They don't care what spline count the axle shafts are.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:40 AM   #29
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I think it is the economics of an axle swap that makes or breaks it. MOST of us are not hard core baja racers or massive rock crawlers that need indestructible truck axles. But many of us need something more durable than the D35. The economics is where the Ford 8.8 comes into play. You get a heavier duty axle, disc brakes relatively cheap. But of course you can ruin any deal by going overboard. One jeeper might find a pair of 44's in the junkyard with his desired gear ratio and snap it up on the cheap. It really just depends on what youcan prattle together. I think the ford is popular because it is sooooo common and because of that relatively cheap.
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1999 TJ Sport 4.0L I6 5 spd Warn 8000
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:52 AM   #30
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJ Knight View Post
Locking the D35 without doing the super 35 kit from superior axle is risky business.. Unlocked and 33's you should be fine or even with limited slips.. But not a full locker.. Unless you do the super 35 I wouldn't recommend investing gears or a locker into that axle.. You'll only have to go back and buy another locker and regear the D44 or F8.8 when the D35 goes boom..
My d35 with a limited slip went "man the hatches BOOM!" first trip wheeling with 33's

'tis a pirates life for me

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