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Old 11-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #1
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6.5 speakers in soundbar???

Folks--Sonicelectronix says 6.5" POLK DB651s will not fit in 2000wrangler sound bar. Forum says it will with no cutting. Anyone verify? Also---will the POLK DB521 or the POLK DB521s 5.25 speakers fit in front---I understand the "s" stands for shallow mount. OOH--cant find the DB521s on Crutchfield or Sonicelectronix websites. Will the DB521 fit in front? BTW--Crutchfield will not meet Sonicelectronic advertised prices. The POLK DB521 are $10 higher on Crutchfields.
I alos understand I need an adapter to go with the 5.25 in front? I also understand its ok to mismatch speaker sizes? 5.25" and 6.5"

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:12 PM   #2
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I believe I went with shallow 6.5 Polks in the rear and regular 5.25 Polks up front. I didn't trim anything for rear ones but I did screw holes in different place than stock. Also I used Nalin speaker brackets to fit the 5.25 speakers up front
http://www.nalinmfg.com/TJ-525-Speak...pters_p_8.html

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:41 PM   #3
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I went with some cheap Sony xplod from WalMart, also use the same series in the dash(4x6). I didn't do the nalin and 5.25" im the dash because my passenger speaker was nonfunctional, and I didn't want to spend too much in case it was because of a leak I had. The 6.5's fit just fine in the sound bar. I just held it up, and drilled the new holes. Its also a good idea to pick up some polyfil(pillow stuffing), and shove some in the sound bar as well
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:59 PM   #4
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I went with full kickers and everything turned out great. No drilling or cutting. Also I went with 5 inch round in the dash with the adaptor and my sound is great. Feel free to message me if ya have any questions
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:01 PM   #5
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I wouldn't mixmatch the speakers. It's hard enough hearing the front speakers, and by putting in 6.5 in the rear, you will never hear the front speakers. Fading it, is not the solution, because the rear speakers will still sound fuller. I would match the speakers front and back, with 5.25, and use the Nalins for the front. This is how I did it. When, I crank up my Alpine PDX-V9, I can hear the front speakers and the sound is balanced and awesome. The best way is to improve the front 4x6 speakers to 5.25, and use the 5.25 in back. If you have 4x6 in front and then you add 6.5 in back, that just makes the system more unbalanced. It also ruins the addition of an amp, because the maximum wattage you can use will be based on the horrible front speakers.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:09 PM   #6
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that's incorrect. I have no trouble hearing my front speakers, and everything is balanced. If you know how to use your headunit, you should have no trouble blending your front/rear stage. It doesn't matter the size of the speakers if they are getting the same amount of power(to an extent). My 6.5's were no louder then my stock 5.25 they replaced. The only difference was clarity, especially at higher volumes. All you have to do is play around with your headunit a little, and everything will blend just right.

Edit: if sq is really what you are going for(which doesn't go well in open air vehicles). The best thing to do would be to use a component set, and drill a hole where the "kick panel" should be, put some sound deadener in, and mount your mid bass there. Then use nalin's tweeter mount. Get rid of the dash speakers all together. That's about the best setup for a front stage in a jeep. Then you would just run a good coaxial in the sound bar.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:19 PM   #7
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I recently replaced all four speakers with the same Polk DB speakers (5.25" for dash and 6.5" in soundbar) as the OP is considering. They all fit without issue, the soundbar speaker screws just needing to be screwed in at a slight angle to match the original holes. I used baffles and polyfill for the dash speakers too.

Don't expect real bass but it's pretty dang awesome to be able to hear music without distortion on the highway now haha
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:22 PM   #8
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I recently replaced all four speakers with the same Polk DB speakers (5.25" for dash and 6.5" in soundbar) as the OP is considering.
Also, I bought them off eBay, shopped around for the best prices, eBay was best. Bought some connectors to snap directly into stock wiring.
My Jeep is a 1999! 2000 isn't any different up in the soundbar
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:37 PM   #9
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that's incorrect. I have no trouble hearing my front speakers, and everything is balanced. If you know how to use your headunit, you should have no trouble blending your front/rear stage. It doesn't matter the size of the speakers if they are getting the same amount of power(to an extent). My 6.5's were no louder then my stock 5.25 they replaced. The only difference was clarity, especially at higher volumes. All you have to do is play around with your headunit a little, and everything will blend just right.

Edit: if sq is really what you are going for(which doesn't go well in open air vehicles). The best thing to do would be to use a component set, and drill a hole where the "kick panel" should be, put some sound deadener in, and mount your mid bass there. Then use nalin's tweeter mount. Get rid of the dash speakers all together. That's about the best setup for a front stage in a jeep. Then you would just run a good coaxial in the sound bar.
That's wrong. First of all, moving the front speakers further away from your ears, is not going to make it sound better. Especially when the Rear speakers are so close to your ears.

Secondly, when music is produced, they don't fade or balance the music. Some artists even use quadrophonic studio setups. So, if you have to fade or balance the music, you aren't going to get true sound quality as the artist intended it. Unbalancing your system even more, to fix an unbalanced system, is not the solution. It just doesn't make sense.

Thirdly, clarity, means which speakers are clearer. Therefore, you admit, there are two different sound qualities. The best solution therefore is to have the same quality/clarity, from all the speakers.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:13 PM   #10
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Edit: waste of time explaining. Research some sq setups on diymobileaudio.com

Clarity= clearness of the sound between stock paper cone speakers, and a slightly better(mid quality coxail ie:mainstream 2/3/4way). You will hear a better reproduction of highs, miss, and lows(well not in a jeep). Speaker size has nothing to do with this. Comparing a decent coaxial to a 90's stock paper cone is like comparing boss audio to Harmon kardon. Speakers being farther doesn't mean anything. The closer to equal distance from left speaker to user and right speaker to user the better sq and blend. But like I said sq is impossible in an open top vehicle. But anyways speaker size don't have anything to do with sound quality
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:22 PM   #11
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If it was not ok to mismatch speaker sizes, then all auto manufacturers would be screwed. Even the premium systems in vehicles such as Bose, Infinity, Harmon-Kardon and such use speakers of different sizes to accomplish their premium sound.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:26 PM   #12
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My previous TJ had 5.25" Polk round coax speakers up front and round 6.5" Polk speakers in the soundbar & it sounded superb. Using the fader to drive the front speakers a little more than the rears was all it took to balance them out.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:00 AM   #13
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My previous TJ had 5.25" Polk round coax speakers up front and round 6.5" Polk speakers in the soundbar & it sounded superb. Using the fader to drive the front speakers a little more than the rears was all it took to balance them out.
Jerry thanks seems to be the logical solution for no big difference in money. go with the bigger speaker in sound bar.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:41 AM   #14
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I did the 6.5 sony xplod in the sound bar and made my own front 5.25 adapters out of 1/4" plywood, wired a kicker 150w amp and a cheapo 6.5 sub in the center. Trimmed a little bit of the box away and kept the heat sync to seal the triangle hole. Sony xplod head unit. I am ever so happy with it.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:49 PM   #15
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Well, if it didn't matter, no one would use the 5.25 Nalin adapters, to replace the 4x6 front speakers. Larger speaker does give better sound quality. Jeep manufacturers installed the 4x6 front speakers. They suck. Jeep manufacturers also installed a crappy subwoofer in the console that readily blows out. It sucks. Still, you have faith in auto manufacturers regarding your sound system? It doesn't make sense.

The problem with the front speaker location is that it is hard to hear over the rear speakers that are right next to your ear. For premium balanced sound, you want to hear all four speakers at "zero" balance.

To increase the size and quality of the rear speakers, seems to be a$$ backwards to me, to fixing the manufacturers mistake. Clearly, the manufacturer should have used 5.25 in the front. The best way to bring out those front speakers would be to put the 6.5's in front. This would give you better balanced sound. The other alternative is to upgrade the front speaker to 5.25 and leave the back at 5.25. Adding 6.5 to the back just escalates the problem of not being able to hear the front speakers, at a balanced stereo setting. "Zero" is a balanced stereo setting. Anything different, is not a balanced stereo setting. This includes fading adjustments. Some artists do use quadrophonic studio sound, and you won't hear the music as the artist intended. A balanced "quadrophonic" system is much better than an unbalanced, faded "stereo" system.

I have 4-5.25 110watt RMS speakers all around in my Jeep. At medium volumes, I can hear my front speakers, and without making fade adjustments. This is the way the music was intended to be heard. Studios, music or theatre, do not fade their speakers. Therefore, you will hear true sound. There are tricks that studios use to send sound to one speaker, in a balanced stereo system with four speakers. This is not truly quadrophonic, but you won't hear it, as intended, if you have to fade the system. And, there are true quadrophonic systems, which you can closely approximate with a balanced four speaker stereo system.
Having to fade it, ruins that balance.

Sorry, for the long spiel. It doesn't make sense to continue this point and I won't discuss it further. Everyone seems to understand that 5.25 all around is best, but some have just chosen other configurations. If you are happy with it, that is all that really matters.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:18 PM   #16
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Mismatched speaker sizes are very common and have nothing to do with how far the speakers are from your head. There are no facts backing statements around matching speaker sizes front and rear. Common practice is to put smaller, clearer Component Sets up front with larger speakers in back to help balance the highs and lows.

What it really boils down to is preference. Do what you want with whatever you want and if it doesn't work out try again until you get the results you want.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:31 PM   #17
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Come on ChasUGC. Saying you need the fader at zero balance and the speakers need to be sized so the sound is balanced between the front & rear even though the rears are next to your ears and the fronts are 3' away? Not an opinion I can even close to agreeing with or even being able to understand how anyone could possibly come up with.

I've been involved with audio systems since the early sixties, and built stereo amps from scratch (down to drilling & punching the chassis) & speakers from scratch, and to me that position is a totally ridiculous and unrealistic stance to be taking.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:43 PM   #18
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I ran MB 5.25's in the front and 6.5's up in the bar. Powered by a relic 100x4 PPI amp. The fader was at 0 but the front amps gain was higher, More "voice" and mid turned down. Soundbar handled more of a mid range. It's all in the amp settings.
To get a perfect sounding system in a jeep is not easy IMO

Now time to look into my Jk
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:02 PM   #19
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Come on ChasUGC. Saying you need the fader at zero balance and the speakers need to be sized so they are are balanced between the front & rear even though the rears are next to your ears and the fronts are 3' away? Not an opinion I can even close to agreeing with or even being able to understand.

I've been involved with audio systems since the early sixties, and built stereo amps from scratch (down to drilling & punching the chassis) & speakers from scratch, and to me that position is a totally ridiculous and unrealistic stance to be taking.
Yes Jerry, you understood my point exactly. The rear speakers are right next to your ears, and the front speakers are like 3' away. So, why would anyone increase the rear speakers, to make the imbalance worse between the front and rear speakers? If anything, I would increase the front speakers, until they balance with the rear speakers. Since 6.5 is so difficult to add the the front, 5.25 is best, at trying to level out the imbalance with the rear speakers being right next to your ears. If someone did add 6.5 to the front and 5.25 to the rear, this would probably be optimal. But, not vise versa, this just compounds the balance problem with the current speaker locations in a Jeep. At low volumes, I hear my rear speakers most in my 5.25 all around configuration, because they are closest to my ears. But at moderate to high volume, I hear all the speakers equally, and it sounds awesome, without fading, and destroying the intended acoustically engineered arrangement. It sounds truly quadrophonic, with all the speakers being the same. Although, making sure your system is "in-phase" is critical, regardless of the speaker choice. Even some professional installers don't pay attention to this point. These are the finer points, and like I said, if you are happy with your system, then that is all that really matters.

But, if you are designing an upgrade, and spending your hard earned money, you may want to consider the finer points to heighten your audio experience and get the best possible sound for your money.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #20
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I also would NOT use the Polks for any "upgrade" consideration. The Polks are only 45 and 55watts RMS, respectively. The Kicker 40CS54 front 5-1/4" speakers are 75watts RMS and they are almost $20.00 less than the Polks 45watts RMS. The Kicker 40CS654 is rated at 100RMS, and this kills the Polk DB651 at only 55watts RMS. And, that Kicker is cheaper than the Polks at Crutchfield too. Clearly, the Kickers are cheaper and a better speaker.

And, if in the future you decide to add a reasonably powered amp, the Kickers can handle it, but not the Polks. The Polks might even blow out with an Aftermarket HU with an internal amp, because those add a lot of distortion. This might happen if you need to crank it up with the top off a lot, and you press that loudness button. The THD rating of the HU is given at nominal value, and not the max volume rating with the internal amp kicked in.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:42 PM   #21
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Same size speakers all around and fader set at 0, still does not make a system in a jeep balanced. You still have the rear speakers closer to your ears than the front ones with the same output!
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #22
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Same size speakers all around and fader set at 0, still does not make a system in a jeep balanced. You still have the rear speakers closer to your ears than the front ones with the same output!
True. Not, perfectly balanced for that reason. But, adding bigger speakers right next to your ears just makes it worse. Like I said, I can hear my front 5.25, as clear as my back 5.25, at moderate to high volumes, without touching the fader. And they are exactly the same speaker so, there is no inherent difference. It's all about choice, and the finer points. My speakers are also rated between 90-110watts RMS, so they rock hard. They are powered by the Alpine PDX-V9. Definitely not Polks. lol.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:27 PM   #23
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Polk>kicker any day. On speakers the rms doesn't have near as an effect as speaker sensitivity. Just because it doesnt handle as much power as another speaker doesn't make it a worse speaker. There is alot more to how a speaker will perform besides peak/rms power.

Just because your speakers can handle that much doesn't mean you are feeding them that much. A speaker getting 50 watts with a high sensitivity rating is going to have more output on the same amount of power as one with a lower sensitivity. You might want to do a little reading on some audio forums. There is alot of misinformation in car audio. Believe it or not, there are alot better brands out there for the same price(or a little more) then kicker. For the fader part, obviously you have never seen a real sq setup. A real sq system is not going to have the balance and fade in neutral positions. The reason they are even adjustable, is so the sound can be adjusted for a specific vehicle. Then you can get into delay/speaker timing. But at that point you get past the limits of what you can control with your hu. I bet you don't even understand the purpose of the gain on an amp
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:52 PM   #24
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I see a lot of guys on here prefer Polk over kicker..... hmmm interesting
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:00 PM   #25
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Would I be good with the following setup.
Polk 6.5 components in soundbar and Polk 5.25 Components in the front running a Alpine 4ch. 110x4 (rms) amplifier. Have a Sony Detach radio as well.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:03 PM   #26
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So here I go. Just experience. No research. A 50 rms speaker on a 50 watt rms amp will sound great. Rms is what matters peak or max is pointless junk. At the same time a speaker with 500 rms with a 100 rms amp sounds weak. Match those you are golden.

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