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Old 12-30-2005, 08:54 AM   #1
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Question AIr intake vs throttle body spacer

I was told that I should not combine a air intake with a throttle body spacer but i do want to increase performance with out sacrificing mpg any sugestions would be helpful

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Old 12-30-2005, 09:11 AM   #2
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i don't think a throttle body spacer does anything at all. you've got the 2.5 right? if you don't have one already, drop by a local junk yard and pick up a 4.0L throttle body. if you can, mill out the bottom of the throttle body(under the butterfly) and the intake manifold to the diameter of the gasket. that will help out alot and it's relatively cheap. add an intake, and maybe some ignition stuffs(coil, cap, wires, plugs) and you'll bump that 2.5L up some. i've also found a company that makes a cam for the 2.5, and i REALLY want one, but haven't ordered myself one yet. 2.5L stuffs

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Old 12-30-2005, 10:04 AM   #3
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What A Throttle Body Spacer Does Is To Allow The Gas And Air To Atomize Better BEFORE ENTERING THE INTAKE MANIFOLD. Which Results In A Increase FOR MORE Power. This Technology Goes Back To The 50's When People Used Them On Their Hot Rods(A HIGH RISE), And Were Made From A Wide Range Of Materials I.e. Wood, Plastic And Metal. What A Air Intake Kit Does Is Increase The Volume Of Air Going To The Main Throttle Body AND INTAKE MANIFOLD Which Increases Power By Increase Of Airflow. There Are Alot Of Kits That Combine Both Of These. I Personally Have A Power Aid Throttle Body Spacer On Mine In Combination With A K&n Fipk Kit. When I First Installed A Spacer I Noticed A Power Increase, Smoother Running And A Increase In Acceleration And My Engine Reved Lower. I Then Installed Just A Regular K&n Filter And Noticed A Little More Increase In Power. I Recently Installed The K&n Fipk Kit (gift For Christmas From Wife) And Noticed A Large Increase In Power. So I'm Not Sure Who You Heard You Can't Use Both In Combination. I Know You Can Get A Aem Brute Force Intake At 4wd.com For 239.99 Which Is A Intake And Spacer In One Unit. Didn't Offer It At Time When I Bought My Spacer 2 Yrs Ago. Or If You Have The Money You Can Buy A Turbocharger Which Is Supposed To Be The Best But Cost Aroun 3,500.00. Well Hope This Helps.
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:49 PM   #4
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There is no reason that you can't run a throttle body spacer and a high-flow air intake together, but for the 2.5L, the best thing to do is get a throttle body from a 4.0L and make the modifications that khernderson mentioned.
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Old 12-31-2005, 12:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mud707
What A Throttle Body Spacer Does Is To Allow The Gas And Air To Atomize Better BEFORE ENTERING THE INTAKE MANIFOLD.
Hmmm.... now how do you suppose that can happen when our Jeeps use individual fuel injectors to inject the fuel directly into each combustion chamber which is well below the throttle body. Only air passes through the throttle body and when under a throttle body like the Jeep uses, a throttle body spacer does nothing.

A spacer can help when under a carburetor or a TBI (throttle body injection) system but Jeeps don't use TBI and they haven't used carbs in many years.

A throttle body spacer on a Jeep 4.0L or 2.5L engine does nothing and is a 100% waste of money.
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Hmmm.... now how do you suppose that can happen when our Jeeps use individual fuel injectors to inject the fuel directly into each combustion chamber which is well below the throttle body. Only air passes through the throttle body and when under a throttle body like the Jeep uses, a throttle body spacer does nothing.

A spacer can help when under a carburetor or a TBI (throttle body injection) system but Jeeps don't use TBI and they haven't used carbs in many years.

A throttle body spacer on a Jeep 4.0L or 2.5L engine does nothing and is a 100% waste of money.
not entirely true. Throttle body spacers are made of materials that are less absorbent of heat. It helps to create a cooler intake charge. It works under the same principle as a phenolic intake spacer which acts as a barrier to heat transferring from the engine to the intake air.

Throttle body spacers usually however don't create a noticable increase in power, but they usually eliminate heat soak from stop and go traffic that robs EXISTING power, assist in smoothing out idle, and assist to eliminate bogging on initial acceleration. Hope that answers the posters questions. Buy the throttle body spacer, but don't expect it to be a "slam your head back" mod.
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Old 12-31-2005, 11:50 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JoshX
Throttle body spacers are made of materials that are less absorbent of heat.
Oh come on, the TB spacers sold for TJs are made of nothing more exotic than machined aluminum, the same exact material the throttle body is made from.
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Old 12-31-2005, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Bransford
Oh come on, the TB spacers sold for TJs are made of nothing more exotic than machined aluminum, the same exact material the throttle body is made from.
i'm not familiar with what material TB spacers available for the wrangler are made out of. But the ones I am familiar with are made of synthetic materials or heat insulating materials such as garolite. They are also commonly found as electrical insulators. Cheap ebay knockoff's are probaly nothing more than machined aluminum. If there is any other way I can help you understand how TB spacers WILL work for a modern Wrangler you just let me know.
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Old 12-31-2005, 02:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshX
i'm not familiar with what material TB spacers available for the wrangler are made out of. But the ones I am familiar with are made of synthetic materials or heat insulating materials such as garolite. They are also commonly found as electrical insulators. Cheap ebay knockoff's are probaly nothing more than machined aluminum. If there is any other way I can help you understand how TB spacers WILL work for a modern Wrangler you just let me know.

Josh, I have seen Jerry post entirely to much good info on TJ's,on this forum and others, and would suggest that before you try "schooling" us on how a TJ throttle body will work, you might check to see that the TB's that are availible, are machined aluminum...not exotic in the least. imho....Bob.
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Old 12-31-2005, 02:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Buster
Josh, I have seen Jerry post entirely to much good info on TJ's,on this forum and others, and would suggest that before you try "schooling" us on how a TJ throttle body will work, you might check to see that the TB's that are availible, are machined aluminum...not exotic in the least. imho....Bob.
like i said, i'm not familiar with TB spacers available for the TJ's. If they are in fact machined aluminum, and no other readily available options out there, then I apologize for the miscommunication or if I may have offended anyone. My post was was simply stating that a TB spacer will work for a TJ or any other engine for that matter if they are made they way they are supposed to be. The fact that only aluminum ones are available for the TJ, as you guys say, signals to me that maybe someone should look into having a proper TB spacer made. Hell, maybe i'll talk to my machine shop and see if we can work something up.

-Josh
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:01 PM   #11
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I'm not inclined to accept that the material the TBS is made from is going to produce a noticeable difference in performance or economy. The real reason a TBS doesn't help a TJ is the reason I gave above. That the TJ's air-fuel mixture is atomized inside each combustion chamber, which are all located well below the throttle body. The reason for better performance that you gave above, that a TB spacer helps to better atomize the air-fuel mixture before it gets into the intake manifold, is thus very obviously not going to hold true for our TJs.

I just hate to see people waste money and on a Jeep, a throttle body spacer is a waste of money. Did my TB spacer make any difference at all that I could detect before I removed it? Not at all. Well, no, I can't say it made no difference... it did make a slight whistling sound that my 15 year old son thought sounded cool.
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Old 12-31-2005, 05:07 PM   #12
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thanks khenderson I will look into getting a 4.0 TB for my 2.5 to see if that helps
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Old 12-31-2005, 08:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memsimba
thanks khenderson I will look into getting a 4.0 TB for my 2.5 to see if that helps
no prob. i know it helped mine keep highway speeds. especially going uphill and into the wind. all i gotta do now is find someone to mill it out for me.....of maybe that's just an excuse to buy new tools!!
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Old 01-01-2006, 03:59 PM   #14
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Yeah, I gotta roll with Jerry on this one. They are usefull in some applications, but on our TJ's they aren't. The only reason I have one is because I got it for free from AEM. I have not had any noticeable gains in MPG or Power from the new intake and tb spacer.
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Old 01-02-2006, 03:43 AM   #15
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I might suggest looking into a Rock-It Air pipe with a K&N filter instead of looking into the throttlebody spacer stuff. Order it direct from their website and it's much less than through Quadratec. Rusty's Offroad also makes a unit that is even less than Rock-It Air and very similar but I've not used one of theirs. My experience with my 2001 2.5L with a 5 speed was excellent with the Rock-It Air. In addition to the added torque, my gas mileage increased from 19-20 to 25-26 (highway - flat geography). It's a little noisier because you remove the air cleaner and sound baffling stuff but it's a really simple 30 minute project and you can put the other stuff back on if/when you sell it. However, my friend put the same thing on his 4.0L with an automatic and noticed little change. It's a simple 30 minute solution that really worked well for me. Just a thought.
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Old 01-02-2006, 02:35 PM   #16
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I might suggest looking into a Rock-It Air pipe with a K&N filter instead of looking into the throttlebody spacer stuff. Order it direct from their website and it's much less than through Quadratec. Rusty's Offroad also makes a unit that is even less than Rock-It Air and very similar but I've not used one of theirs. My experience with my 2001 2.5L with a 5 speed was excellent with the Rock-It Air. In addition to the added torque, my gas mileage increased from 19-20 to 25-26 (highway - flat geography). It's a little noisier because you remove the air cleaner and sound baffling stuff but it's a really simple 30 minute project and you can put the other stuff back on if/when you sell it. However, my friend put the same thing on his 4.0L with an automatic and noticed little change. It's a simple 30 minute solution that really worked well for me. Just a thought.
When I cut my air tube off and installed a K&N years ago because of my OBA installation, I ended up having to buy a TurboCity air tube to get the CARB (Calif. Air Resources Board (smog) stick so the engine would pass the smog test. It is the same diameter and shape as the factory air tube, it does NOTHING to help performance. The only reason I keep mine installed is because it has the CARB sticker for our semi-annual inspections. The smog testers wouldn't accept the factory air tube once I had cut off its factory air filter.

The combination of the K&N and TurboCity RockIt air tube did did nothing for performance on my 4.0L engine.

I later removed the K&N and replaced it with better air filter once I discovered how poorly the K&N filters the air. Fine desert dust and grit was getting past it and was starting to coat the inside of the air tube, inspite of keeping the K&N cleaned and oiled. In an ISO 5011 test of air filters, the K&N came in dead-last in terms of how poorly it did in filtering and trapping dust and dirt. I'll never run another K&N, my own experience with its poor filtration wheeling in dusty desert conditions mirrors the ISO 5011 test results.

Here's one of the charts and comments from the ISO test at http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm. The words below the chart are their words, not mine...



"In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."
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Old 01-02-2006, 03:54 PM   #17
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I have seen this before. I knew what you are saying K&N to be true, but never said anything. Too many consider K&N to be the Crown Jewel of air filters for some reason. IMO, they only became popular because they have shrewd advertising.
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Old 01-02-2006, 04:52 PM   #18
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I must admit I only bought K&N because thats what all the cool kids were buying..

but I might add.. wit my K&N pod I have caked it with mud and crap..gone through water and even after all that.. the intake pipe was still showing no signs of anything getting past the pod.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:31 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by memsimba
I was told that I should not combine a air intake with a throttle body spacer but i do want to increase performance with out sacrificing mpg any sugestions would be helpful

Re-gear.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:02 PM   #20
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I thought the throtle body spacer was to increase the volume of air in the fuel / air ratio just for a touch more bang.....i picked up ages ago when i was convinced that they did really work and mine is made out of some hard plastic.......maybe it did work or maybe it was just a placebo that caused me to drive harder after i installed it.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by stu
I thought the throtle body spacer was to increase the volume of air in the fuel / air ratio just for a touch more bang.....i picked up ages ago when i was convinced that they did really work and mine is made out of some hard plastic.......maybe it did work or maybe it was just a placebo that caused me to drive harder after i installed it.
Nope, the same volume of air is drawn into the engine regardless of if a TB spacer is there or not. The combination of the 02 sensor and engine computer work to keep the air-fuel mixture the same no matter what kind of air intake is present.
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:39 PM   #22
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So, you guys are saying that my K&N drop in fiber & oil air filter is actually worse than the Fram paper element air filter ?
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:41 PM   #23
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Sorry, I know this is an old topic, but I was reading it and had to respond / bring it to the top. Seems that many companies are trying to get our business with their air intake "improvements".
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:57 PM   #24
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TB spacers help on TBI engines ... not direct injection.

they are a waste on DI engines.
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Old 01-30-2007, 03:58 PM   #25
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So, you guys are saying that my K&N drop in fiber & oil air filter is actually worse than the Fram paper element air filter ?
you get more airflow, but you alos let in more particulate matter. they dont give you the performance increase you want and or kind of a waste IMO (yes i have one, worst 50 i have ever spent on my jeep )
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Old 01-30-2007, 05:57 PM   #26
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I wouldnt buy any of those for the money they want. I would recomend phenomic intake gasket. This will help with heat transfer to the intake manifold and therefore help with hp and torque over time after the engine warms up. I would recomend the "phenomic intake gasket" over any of those. If you really want to see some difference get some gears.

Yep MouthfulOfGrass the K&N filter is worse. There was an thread here that had a link to consumer tests of bunch of filters and K&N allows a lot more dirt to enter your engine (it's a fact).
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Old 01-30-2007, 07:15 PM   #27
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Oh come on, the TB spacers sold for TJs are made of nothing more exotic than machined aluminum, the same exact material the throttle body is made from.
I agree with Jerry. Also, most people agree anything other than the stock airbox gets you nothing except dust in the air tubes. You can't do a hell of a lot with this engine unless you want to pour dollars into it. Better to leave it alone and save fuel by not trying to hot rod. Just my 2 cents from being around a long time.
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Old 01-30-2007, 07:36 PM   #28
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you get more airflow,
Not in reality in the TJ's case. Yes the K&N offers the potential for more air flow but it won't actually flow more CFM than the factory air box does because the engine isn't asking for more air than the factory air box is already providing. In other words, the 4.0L engine isn't starved for air by the OE air intake system which actually breathes very well. The same cannot be said for all vehicles though.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:19 PM   #29
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In other words, the 4.0L engine isn't starved for air by the OE air intake system which actually breathes very well. The same cannot be said for all vehicles though.
Exactly. I some what disagree with the stock air pipe getting enough air though, anyhow you see those dynos K&N shows in magazines but preatty much they all are on turbo engines. Just because your buddy with a 20 psi of boost got 10 extra crank hp doesnt mean you will get 10 hp with your stock NA engine.
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Old 01-30-2007, 08:21 PM   #30
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most of the dyno numbers are at high RPM's where your rpm's aren't hardly ever going to get that high

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