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Old 09-01-2012, 02:59 PM   #1
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air silencer removal

i have a tj with a 2.5 4 cylinder. i want to remove the factory air silencer. any suggestions on how to do this? i have read and been told there is no need to do this. but if anyone has and can tell me how they done it that would be great. NOT COLD AIR INTAKE just looking to remove air silencer and instal k and n filter

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Old 09-01-2012, 04:29 PM   #2
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Air silencer? You mean the filter box?

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Old 09-01-2012, 04:49 PM   #3
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i have a tj with a 2.5 4 cylinder. i want to remove the factory air silencer. any suggestions on how to do this? i have read and been told there is no need to do this. but if anyone has and can tell me how they done it that would be great. NOT COLD AIR INTAKE just looking to remove air silencer and instal k and n filter
I assume you mean air intake box? The reason why you have been told to not remove it is because the factory setup is the most efficient in terms of air flow. The K&N setup also is horrible at filtering out fine particles like dust and sand. But whatever that is just my .02.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:58 PM   #4
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Removing the air silencer, also known as the trumpet, located on front of the airbox will not do anything to improve performance. The trumpet is more than able to easily flow all of the air that your engine can consume. Really.
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Old 09-01-2012, 04:59 PM   #5
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Do a few searches and you will see a overwhelming amount of post saying to stick with the stock system, the stock drop in filters are way better than K&N at filtering, and I'm pretty sure that it has also been stated a number of times that the stock system already flows more air than the Jeep can use at wide open throttle. No need for spend money on something that isn't broke, just buy a quality drop in filter and spend your money else ware on things worth doing.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:43 PM   #6
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Oops missed the reference to the K&N air filter which should have raised a big red flag for me. Of all the filters tested in a lab test of various brands of air filters, the K&N's test results were a disaster. It was dead last in its ablity to filter, it let in huge amounts of damaging dirt, silica, etc.

Though I didn't post the chart the below comment is from, the words describing the results are very telling. The following is quoted directly from the lab results, the lab test's words not mine....

"The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. "
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:00 PM   #7
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Air silencer? You mean the filter box?
Nope not talking about filter box. I am looking for something to replace the piping from filter box to throttle body
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:04 PM   #8
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Do a few searches and you will see a overwhelming amount of post saying to stick with the stock system, the stock drop in filters are way better than K&N at filtering, and I'm pretty sure that it has also been stated a number of times that the stock system already flows more air than the Jeep can use at wide open throttle. No need for spend money on something that isn't broke, just buy a quality drop in filter and spend your money else ware on things worth doing.
I did do searches wasnt finding what i was looking for. Maybe my wording is all wrong
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:05 PM   #9
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Nope not talking about filter box. I am looking for something to replace the piping from filter box to throttle body
Don't bother, none of that will help the performance any at all. Not one iota.

Your engine isn't starving for air, it is only starving for displacement. Really.
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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Oops missed the reference to the K&N air filter which should have raised a big red flag for me. Of all the filters tested in a lab test of various brands of air filters, the K&N's test results were a disaster. It was dead last in its ablity to filter, it let in huge amounts of damaging dirt, silica, etc.

Though I didn't post the chart the below comment is from, the words describing the results are very telling. The following is quoted directly from the lab results, the lab test's words not mine....

"The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. "
Thanks for the info. So as far cfm's any of these paper drop in filters will do the trick? And preform better? My jeep is almost completely road driving never been off road if that matters. Thanks for info
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:14 PM   #11
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Any of those air filters are more than capable of very easily flowing FAR more CFM than your engine could possibly consume at WOT and redline RPMs. The reason being is they all have positively huge surface areas. K&N loves to infer all such air filters except theirs are restrictive but the truth is that they are not.

AC-Delco has a sterling reputation and was #1 in those tests but Wix, Purolator, and Fram make outstanding air filters too
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Old 09-01-2012, 06:19 PM   #12
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My jeep is almost completely road driving never been off road if that matters. Thanks for info
You are fine with a K&N. They get flamed here and may not be the best choice if driven in very very dusty conditions a lot. Regardless of that test, lots of people use K&Ns. I have I'ne been using them for 25 years. 180k on my truck and 260 on another vehicle. (I know people with more).
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Old 09-01-2012, 07:01 PM   #13
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Why anyone who knows better would actually choose to use a far less efficient air filter... i.e. one that filters so much worse than much better quality filters like from AC-Delco... is a great puzzlement to me. Our Jeep engines sure don't need any more air flow capacity since their OE air intakes can already easily flow far more air than the engine can consume. I can only guess all the K&N hype is just too much for some to resist.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:57 AM   #14
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I am not saying you will net any HP increase on the jeep or not but with regards to engine damage, where are all the destroyed motors as a results from all the people using K&N and other lesser known filters across the automotive world? There is a HP increase (minor) on other vehicles. There is a drop in K&N from the previous owner on mine. 5 years and 70k with me and unknown overall. Am I worried......not in the least.
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:30 PM   #15
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I have a Airaid CAI currently and instead of replacing it with the stock setup, is there anywhere I can but a Cone paper filter like stock that will fit over the Airaid Intake pipe yet filter better than Airaid? Thanks

EDIT: I just found this on Bobistheoilguy.com and it seems to be good... Supposed to filter to .8 microns and be better at filtering than paper filters. http://www.allfilters.net/ What do you think?
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:08 PM   #16
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K&N loves to infer all such air filters except theirs are restrictive but the truth is that they are not.

They aren't misleading anybody. The K&N cotton gauze filter does flow more air than a paper element filter. What they don't mention is that it also flows more dirt.
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Old 09-02-2012, 02:50 PM   #17
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They aren't misleading anybody. The K&N cotton gauze filter does flow more air than a paper element filter. What they don't mention is that it also flows more dirt.
That isn't what I was saying.

I said K&N infers all air filters are restrictive, which they then lead on that to mean engines don't get enough air so they don't perform as well as they would with a K&N. That isn't true in the case of a TJ air intake system that is totally non-restrictive. The TJ's engine would no more air with a K&N than it does with a normal paper element air filter like from AC-Delco. That is because air filters like the AC-Delco, Purolator, etc. have so much surface area that in no way do they prevent the engine from getting the air it needs to run properly.

By restrictive, I mean K&N infers that all engines are starving for air unless you install a K&N. Not true at all. SOME engines DO have restrictive air intakes, like the Mustang 5.0L engine which does run better with a less restrictive air intake. The TJ's air intake however was purposely designed to be non-restrictive so the engine gets all the air it is asking for even at redline rpms and WOT.
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Old 09-02-2012, 04:17 PM   #18
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AH, the phoney test results!
Those results so often quoted were for a BIG DIESEL TRUCK ENGINE - but they did not use a DIESEL TRUCK K&N filter like the others in the test!

And all but one of those filters are no longer made!

Flim flam? You be the judge!

Look at other forums where people don't believe internet rumors - K&N is very popular. Lots of tests too.

The biggest problem with any filter is how it's mounted - the drop-ins don't seal around the edges. The cone types use worm/screw clamps that "gather" the rubber sleeve and create gaps. -- Use the constant tension OEM type clamps.

Performance - test it yourself - remove all the silencer ducting and try driving it a short distance. You'll see for yourself how much the stock junk hurts performance.
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Old 09-02-2012, 05:01 PM   #19
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AH, the phoney test results!
Those results so often quoted were for a BIG DIESEL TRUCK ENGINE - but they did not use a DIESEL TRUCK K&N filter like the others in the test!

And all but one of those filters are no longer made!

Flim flam? You be the judge!

Look at other forums where people don't believe internet rumors - K&N is very popular. Lots of tests too.

The biggest problem with any filter is how it's mounted - the drop-ins don't seal around the edges. The cone types use worm/screw clamps that "gather" the rubber sleeve and create gaps. -- Use the constant tension OEM type clamps.

Performance - test it yourself - remove all the silencer ducting and try driving it a short distance. You'll see for yourself how much the stock junk hurts performance.

Any dyno results to back up that claim?
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Old 09-02-2012, 07:21 PM   #20
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Jerry, would you post a link to that air filter test?

Thanks
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by jeepwayoflife
I have a Airaid CAI currently and instead of replacing it with the stock setup, is there anywhere I can but a Cone paper filter like stock that will fit over the Airaid Intake pipe yet filter better than Airaid? Thanks

EDIT: I just found this on Bobistheoilguy.com and it seems to be good... Supposed to filter to .8 microns and be better at filtering than paper filters. http://www.allfilters.net/ What do you think?
Thanks for the link. I have been looking for a replacement for my K&N cone filter.
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Old 09-02-2012, 08:57 PM   #22
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Jerry, would you post a link to that air filter test?

Thanks
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If you have an early tj 2.5 you will likely notice a difference, though very small. The 2.4's can't really be helped, too many emission controls. My 06 4.0 saw 0 gain with a cai. Also, keep in mind that 5 horse power, while noted as a gain, can't be felt in performance. Also, just curious if anyone actually answered his question about how to take off the air silencer. Seems to have turned into an argument vs a solution.
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Old 09-02-2012, 09:23 PM   #23
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Knock on wood I have been running k&n since 98 in my tj and got better mpgs
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:02 AM   #24
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5 hp is not much of a gain - agreed.
But when all you have is 20 to start with, 25% is a bunch.

It's the percentage of gain that you feel.

On the 4 popper without the stock ducting and box it will easily be noticeable in less than a block.

Those that have actually tried it know - armchair racers that never have tried it only go by what the internet says.

Unanswered about how to take it off?
For those armchair guys -
Remove ducting, remove box, toss in trashcan. Put on what you like.

It would be nice if he posted the entire story behind that so-called comparison test. You'd see it was biased before it was even done.

It's presented like it was an unbiased government test - not true!
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:38 AM   #25
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5 hp is not much of a gain - agreed.
But when all you have is 20 to start with, 25% is a bunch.

It's the percentage of gain that you feel.

On the 4 popper without the stock ducting and box it will easily be noticeable in less than a block.

Those that have actually tried it know - armchair racers that never have tried it only go by what the internet says.

Unanswered about how to take it off?
For those armchair guys -
Remove ducting, remove box, toss in trashcan. Put on what you like.

It would be nice if he posted the entire story behind that so-called comparison test. You'd see it was biased before it was even done.

It's presented like it was an unbiased government test - not true!
I wasn't trying to troll when I asked if you had a source for an honest test with measurable results. You'd think someone would spend a day or two testing various setups on a dyno. I've seen a few individual tests, but the dyno charts they show only show like from 3200 rpm and up. I'd like to see some real world numbers in an unbiased, scientific test. Shit's rarer than hen's teeth.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:41 AM   #26
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5 hp is not much of a gain - agreed.
But when all you have is 20 to start with, 25% is a bunch.

It's the percentage of gain that you feel.

On the 4 popper without the stock ducting and box it will easily be noticeable in less than a block.

Those that have actually tried it know - armchair racers that never have tried it only go by what the internet says.

Unanswered about how to take it off?
For those armchair guys -
Remove ducting, remove box, toss in trashcan. Put on what you like.

It would be nice if he posted the entire story behind that so-called comparison test. You'd see it was biased before it was even done.

It's presented like it was an unbiased government test - not true!
still interested in getting this answered..... i am sure someone has found something that will work to route air from air box to throttle body. thanks
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:56 AM   #27
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AH, the phoney test results!
Funny that because RRich disagrees with the laboratory test results they are "phony".

The fact of the matter is that despite RRich's personal feelings about K&N air filters, the test results were conducted in a lab under ISO 5011 lab testing standards. ISO (International Standards Organization) 5011 lab test standards are as precise and scientific as they get. Knowledgeable engineers and scientists accept ISO certified test results, only a lay person would not "get" their validity.

The test was independently performed under controlled conditions using a $285,000 test systen at Testand Corp of Rhode Island, not some guy in his garage.

For the rest of us, this is a little of how the tests were conducted... quoting from the opening of the results:

ISO 5011 Test:
The ISO 5011 Standard (formerly SAE J726) defines a precise filter test using precision measurements under controlled conditions. Temperature & humidity of the test dust and air used in the test are strictly monitored and controlled. As Arlen learned in attempting his own tests, there are many variables that can adversely affect filter test results. A small temperature change or a small change in humidity can cause the mass of a paper filter to change by several grams. To obtain an accurate measure of filter efficiency, it’s critical to know the EXACT amount of test dust being fed into the filter during the test. By following the ISO 5011 standard, a filter tested in Germany can be compared directly compared to another filter tested 5 years later in Rhode Island. The ISO 5011 filter test data for each filter is contained in two test reports; Capacity-Efficiency and Flow Restriction.

Capacity and Efficiency:
The Capacity and Efficiency test report presents the test results of feeding an initially clean filter with PTI Course Test Dust (dirt) at a constant rate and airflow. The course test dust has a specific distribution of particle sizes ranging from less than 2.5 microns to greater than 80 microns (see table below). Every filter is initially tested at 350 CFM and the Initial Restriction or differential pressure across the filter is recorded in IN-H20 (Inches of Water). The filter is then tested by feeding test dust at a nominal rate of 9.8 grams per minute with a constant airflow of 350 CFM. The test is continued until the flow restriction exceeds the Initial Restriction + 10 IN-H20. At this point the test is terminated and the amount dust passed through the filter - Accumulative Gain - is measured. Dirt passing through the filter is captured in the Test Station’s Post Filter. The exact amount of dirt passed is determined by measuring the before and after weight of the Post Filter. Similarly, the amount of dirt retained by the Filter under test - Accumulative Capacity – is measured by taking the difference between the before and after weights of the Filter. From these results the overall % Efficiency of the filter is calculated. This test also indicates how long a Filter will last before replacement is required (or cleaning for reusable filters).

Flow Restriction:
This report presents flow restriction of a clean filter resulting from an increasing airflow. The differential pressure restriction across the filter is reported in inches of water (IN H2O) versus Air Flow in cubic feet per minute CFM.

(end of their text)

As everyone but RRich can see, the tests were performed in a scientific manner and fairly done.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:03 PM   #28
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If it won't take a Fram, then it ain't worth a damn! :-P
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:37 PM   #29
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Look up what ISO Standards really means!

The test would be more believable IF:
CREDIBLE IF ALL the filters tested were equivalent, - for the same vehicle -- the K&N WASN'T. The K&N was a filter for gasoline engines - the others were DIESEL type filters designed to go much much longer between service intervals.

CREDIBLE IF the filters used in the test were still available - only the DELCO still is.

CREDIBLE IF the purpose of the test was to make a comparison, not to hype a particular brand as the original article stated. (since gone out of business.)

APPLES TO HARD BOILED EGGS!

It's easy to do your own test to see if the stock airbox and ducting rob power - take it off - you will FEEL the difference in less than 1/2 block!
NO DYNO NEEDED FOR REALITY.
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Old 09-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #30
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Uh huh.

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