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Old 11-09-2007, 09:40 AM   #1
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Altternative to SYE?

I found this on a web site for sale. Is this what is known as a "Hack-n-Tap"? They say it can only be done to manual transmissions.
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Tail Shaft Conversion Kits
Rubicon CV

For the Jeep TJ Rubicon edition, a double cardan drive shaft can be installed in a number of ways.

One of these methods would require changing the original equipment rear out-put flange & mass vibration dampener to a yoke. This type of conversion will yield the longest possible drive shaft but we consider this to be almost a non issue as the net length gain will reduce the operating angle at the transfer case by only 2 degrees in most cases. It is not generally suggested that the yoke type conversion be done on vehicles with the manual transmission. As removing the mass vibration dampener hub will eliminate the torsional dampening effect of this hub and may induce some transmission gear clatter.

The other method that we have had greatest success with is, to make an adapter that mates on one side to the original equipment rear out-put flange & mass vibration dampener and on the other side to the double cardan (CV) drive shaft that we build. The benefits to this type of conversion as we see them are;

* Ease of installation. Does not require removal of the original equipment rear out-put flange & mass vibration dampener.

* Retains the effect of the original equipment rear out-put flange & mass vibration dampener.

* In the event of failure of the CV drive shaft, the original equipment drive shaft can be readily reinstalled with simple hand tools.

* We have had the greatest success with this type of drive shaft in regards to customer satisfaction of drive ability issues (reduced vibration complaints after install)

Either the yoke type or the flanged adapter type CV drive shaft for the Jeep Rubicon is $369.00.

Keep in mind that this drive shaft will flex to about 30 degrees prior to binding. We have had good success with this in applications using up to 4-1/2" of lift. If you have more lift than this and/or also installing a long arm kit or will be raising the transfer case, we suggest that some grind work be done to the CV prior to assembly. This will typically allow for about 35 degrees of flexibility to the CV prior to binding. This additional grind work adds $XX.00

In order to build we would need a measurement from the vehicle. Simply measure from the face of the out-put flange/mass vibration dampener hub (point A) on the rear of the transfer case. (This will be the mating surface between this hub and the face of the flange on the drive shaft) To the centerline of the universal joint at the differential end.


Please keep in mind that the drive shaft shown in the photo has been polished and clear coated, this finish adds $XX.00 the cost. We only recommend the polish & clear coat for show vehicles or very dry climates.

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Old 11-09-2007, 11:46 AM   #2
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hmmm...i dunno...but while were on the subject of alternatives, i called my driveshaft shop and they said they could make me a high angle cv conversion driveshaft...shouldn't that get rid of vibes? sure would be a lot cheaper and easier...

or they could lengthen the stock one...that would give the driveshaft length back...although it wouldn't be a high angle one...it seems like lengthening the stock one would work too...just curious, thinking out loud

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Old 11-09-2007, 11:55 AM   #3
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Here is the page link with photos. http://www.macs4x4products.com/ptomwoods.html
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:29 PM   #4
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The link you posted to 4point would only work with stock NP241 t-cases out of Rubicons as they have fixed drive shafts in the rear from the factory.

bigjeep - the only thing with lengthening the stock slip yoke driveshaft is that it will be at a much more severe angle. If you were stretching out the rear suspension for a longer wheel base then you might be able to stretch the stock drive shaft, but the double cardigan is what makes it work.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:41 PM   #5
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the hack and tack is a cheap way of doing a SYE. the downsides are its not as short (so you dont gain as much on ur DS) and its not as strong as the regualr SYE. the upsides are its cheaper and easier.

the longer the DS, the less angle its running at. A CV shaft will allow more angle, but also, you can rotate the pumpkin to reduce the angle on the axle end (standard DS needs equal angles at both ujoints. double carden have have diffeent angles)
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by whitebuffalo View Post
the hack and tack is a cheap way of doing a SYE. the downsides are its not as short (so you dont gain as much on ur DS) and its not as strong as the regualr SYE. the upsides are its cheaper and easier.
The link he posted is not a hack-n-tap. Its an adapter that bolts to the damper on the rear output of the Rubicon t-case.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:00 PM   #7
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I used the hack and tap method when I installed a cv driveshaft on my previous jeep (99 tj with the np231) and the 1st gen of RE's 4.5" short arm lift (that was before they sold long arm lifts).

I followed Harry Brosofsky's website walkthrough taken from the following link (the hack n tap is shown in steps 43 - 54 and it works great. :

http://www.4wdlinks.com/harryworld/lift.html
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:06 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by AzTJ View Post
The link he posted is not a hack-n-tap. Its an adapter that bolts to the damper on the rear output of the Rubicon t-case.
i seeeee........

well, he kinda round about asked about a hack and tap though right, so, i was just trying to edumacate him
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:10 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AzTJ View Post
The link he posted is not a hack-n-tap. Its an adapter that bolts to the damper on the rear output of the Rubicon t-case.
You are right AZ this is for Rubi's only. I was thinking/hoping it wasn't.
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:41 PM   #10
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here's the RE hack n tap and instructions if its something your looking to do.

http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Produc...=34FD894072079

still would have to get a driveshaft obviously
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:52 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ygohome View Post
here's the RE hack n tap and instructions if its something your looking to do.

http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Produc...=34FD894072079

still would have to get a driveshaft obviously
I'm not looking to do the hack, I was likeing the unit above because you dont have to crack the T-case to install it. I'll go with the SYE.
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:37 AM   #12
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I know a few people that have done it and its worked great for them
it save you about $200 the sye is about $600 with driveshaft
and the hack-n-tap is about $400 with driveshat
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:06 PM   #13
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Here is the page link with photos. http://www.macs4x4products.com/ptomwoods.html

I personally wouldn't by anything from the above vendor. You can deal with Tom Woods directly for the same price and there will be no middle man to go through over warranty issues. The guy above buys or has a quanity deal with TW, he makes money off you and then if there is an issue you have to deal with him not Tom Woods. FWIW Tom in my expirience has provided excellent customer service. I actually have been running one of his rear shafts for between 3 and 4 years. I did have it rebuilt recently at Sac Driveline. But prior to that I bought my joints and service from Tom.

Here is the link: http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html

Notice any similarities.

The other option would be to take a printed version of the photos of what you want to your local driveline shop. I am pretty sure they are capable of providing you with the same thing possibly at a lower cost. We deal with Sacramento Driveline which if I am not mistaken has branch offices in your area if you are in central CA.

That said the SYE you decided on is your best alternative for your application. In addition it is not a bad idea to crack open that t-case and take a look at how things are in there from time to time. Replaceing the chain isn't a bad idea if you have it open as well.

Just my .02
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Old 11-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #14
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I personally wouldn't by anything from the above vendor. You can deal with Tom Woods directly for the same price and there will be no middle man to go through over warranty issues. The guy above buys or has a quanity deal with TW, he makes money off you and then if there is an issue you have to deal with him not Tom Woods. FWIW Tom in my expirience has provided excellent customer service. I actually have been running one of his rear shafts for between 3 and 4 years. I did have it rebuilt recently at Sac Driveline. But prior to that I bought my joints and service from Tom.

Here is the link: http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html

Notice any similarities.

The other option would be to take a printed version of the photos of what you want to your local driveline shop. I am pretty sure they are capable of providing you with the same thing possibly at a lower cost. We deal with Sacramento Driveline which if I am not mistaken has branch offices in your area if you are in central CA.

That said the SYE you decided on is your best alternative for your application. In addition it is not a bad idea to crack open that t-case and take a look at how things are in there from time to time. Replaceing the chain isn't a bad idea if you have it open as well.

Just my .02

FWIW: I met the above mentioned vendor at a run I went on. He was helpful and friendly....................... and I thought I would look at his web site. If his price is the same as Tom Woods why not deal with him, it will not change the warranty any and I'd have some one I know to help me with any problems.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 11-11-2007, 04:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr4x4 View Post
I know a few people that have done it and its worked great for them
it save you about $200 the sye is about $600 with driveshaft
and the hack-n-tap is about $400 with driveshat
Advance Adapters Fixed Yoke SYE Kit & CV Drive Shaft Cambo is 475 (free shipping)...
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Old 11-11-2007, 05:13 PM   #16
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i bought an xj front shaft for 60 bucks shipped. itll cost 70 to get it shortened and rebalanced.

bought the sye for 190 shipped

cracking the case wasnt bad at all. only PITA was having to shorten the shift arm, but i dont think ud have to do that since u dont have the stupid vacuum thing on urs.
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:24 PM   #17
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FWIW: I met the above mentioned vendor at a run I went on. He was helpful and friendly....................... and I thought I would look at his web site. If his price is the same as Tom Woods why not deal with him, it will not change the warranty any and I'd have some one I know to help me with any problems.

Thanks for your input.
You have a PM

That’s your choice. My point is that Driveline service makes a driveline that is an upgrade rather than a downgrade without using some sort of adapter. The upgrade is from a 1330 to a 1350 vs. a downgrade from 1330 to 1310 on your joints which is what Tom Woods sells. This DS would be the same one RE sells on their site.

http://www.rubiconexpress.com/Produc...=41D35E4091982

Driveline service in collaboration with my employer tested these shaft's prototypes for 6 months and then put the upper end into production with the forging company after testing was complete. This made it so that an adapter/balancer was not needed. RE came in near the end and started selling their own; if I am not mistaken they buy their shafts for resale through driveline service. Or they buy their upper ends from the same forging company, not sure on that.

http://www.drive-lines.com/


I think you would be in for a price savings from either RE or Driveline service.
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Old 11-12-2007, 08:27 AM   #18
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Yeah,i also think it is hie choice.I agree that Driveline service makes a driveline that is an upgrade rather than a downgrade without using some sort of adapter.

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