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Old 08-13-2013, 10:17 AM   #61
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The very last winch I would choose would be from Harbor Freight, the next to the very last winch I would choose would be from Smittybilt.

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:21 AM   #62
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Honestly, after being subscribed to this for quite some time I think I'm going to go with 4wheel parts' Smittybilt XRC 8 package deal. $300 bucks vs $500-$600. On my budget, I can afford the nicer winch but I'd rather save what I don't spend for something like a super 35 kit. That's just my opinion, not trying to start anything lol
Why not go with the engo which is the best quality wise of the budget winches.

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:35 AM   #63
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The very last winch I would choose would be from Harbor Freight, the next to the very last winch I would choose would be from Smittybilt.
Having owned both of those winches, and both failing, I support that statement.
I sure saved a ton of money before I bought a Warn.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:30 AM   #64
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Honestly, after being subscribed to this for quite some time I think I'm going to go with 4wheel parts' Smittybilt XRC 8 package deal. $300 bucks vs $500-$600. On my budget, I can afford the nicer winch but I'd rather save what I don't spend for something like a super 35 kit. That's just my opinion, not trying to start anything lol
Good luck on that purchase. Better off with the Harbor Freight units(which many folks I know have overall had good luck with). Problem is for the price of the HF winches........you might as well grab an ENGO which again has an extremely efficient series wound motor that's not going to beat on your battery like a lot of other winches do.
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Old 08-13-2013, 11:31 AM   #65
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Why not go with the engo which is the best quality wise of the budget winches.
I would expand that statement well beyond the "budget" winches. Well beyond it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:11 PM   #66
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Hahahaha oh my god, is the smittybilt really that bad??
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #67
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There IS a reason warn costs more

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When you learn the difference between "you're" and "your", maybe your body will stop suffering.

Just sayin'!
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:28 PM   #68
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When you learn the difference between "you're" and "your", maybe your body will stop suffering.

Just sayin'!
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:32 PM   #69
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Hahahaha oh my god, is the smittybilt really that bad??
Yes. At least mine was. Can't speak for anyone else.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #70
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All Engo winches are made in China, don't let their misleading "Engo USA" name fool you. Engo is nothing but an importer, they manufacture nothing.
Its my own fault but I thought buying a Warn(vr8000) I was getting a good ole,made in the USA winch.Not so much the case.Now I have a chinese winch.
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Old 08-13-2013, 07:43 PM   #71
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Warn's VR8000 is indeed imported from China, their VR1000 and VR12000 winches are manufactured in Oregon. Their other Jeep size winches are also made in Oregon, it's their ATV sized & VR8000 winches that are made in China.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:03 PM   #72
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Warn's VR8000 is indeed imported from China, their VR1000 and VR12000 winches are manufactured in Oregon. Their other Jeep size winches are also made in Oregon, it's their ATV sized & VR8000 winches that are made in China.
And this is prob the reason Im not so happy with my winch.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #73
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Warn's VR8000 is indeed imported from China, their VR1000 and VR12000 winches are manufactured in Oregon. Their other Jeep size winches are also made in Oregon, it's their ATV sized & VR8000 winches that are made in China.
My 2.5CI says USA on it. Can't find made in China anywhere.

Regardless, it's a hell of a lot faster then a Harbor Freight winch and the brakes much better.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:11 PM   #74
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I found this in a shootout article.Thought it was interesting

Stall Test
After the speed and efficiency test, we returned to our shop space to wrap up our objective testing. We borrowed a 20,000-pound analog load cell from our good friends at King Crane in Scotts Valley, California. The unit displays, in pounds, how much force is being applied to the device and featured shackle attachment points on each end. We fabricated a test platform that would allow us the ability to secure a winch in a multi-mount at one end, while the load cell was affixed to the other end. The system was massive and could only be moved using a forklift. We used a 10-foot section of ˝-inch steel cable to ensure that cable stretch or breakage would not be an issue. The arrangement would allow each winch to reach its maximum pulling power or stall point, while the gauge recorded the maximum pound rating. As you might expect, many of the winches did not survive this torture test.

Results
Winch Max Pull (lb) Result
Bulldog 10,000 Broke internal parts, would not work after test
Engo 12,000 All functions still worked after test
Superwinch 15,900 Would not spool out after test
T-Max 16,000 All functions still worked after test
Warn 16,000 Broke internal parts, would not work after test
(Summit Racing, Harbor Freight, Kodiak units inoperative.)
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:34 PM   #75
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Another good choice is Ramsey.They are def made in the USA. A guy from a local Jeep club was speaking highly of them a little while back.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #76
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Another good choice is Ramsey.They are def made in the USA. A guy from a local Jeep club was speaking highly of them a little while back.
Ramsey makes a very good winch. Assembled in the USA but not all parts are made here. Just like pretty much all the other companies.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:14 PM   #77
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Wow... I moved and didn't have internet for a while. Ha and this thread grew 2.5 pages since. Thanks for all of the responses! I keep telling myself I'm going to sleep on the decision and wake up thinking something else. I should just make an impulse buy and live with it ha. Ive spent a lot at Quadratec and trust them. But based on this thread I guess I'll rule them out. Now I have ENGO on the plate too.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:33 PM   #78
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Well Ive got a Warn.Ive got a thread showing why my freespool lever wouldent budge.The gaskets allowed water into the gear assy.Ive been trying for over a week,soon going on 2 weeks to get Warn to send me 2 new gaskets,about a buck each.Not sure if Id buy another Warn at this point.I think Ill buy an Engo.
Got ahold of Andy & got my gaskets today.Kudos to Andy.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:09 AM   #79
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Thanks again for all of the help. I ended up actually buying a Warn M8000 last night.
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:43 AM   #80
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There IS a reason warn costs more

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There's probably several reasons, not the least of which is that American labor is much more costly than Chinese labor.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:00 PM   #81
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My first jeep winch was a PTO winch. There has never been an electric winch that I have seen that could keep up with it. It was a beast. As long as the engine would run and had gas, it would pull, and pull and pull. But that is not an option on my TJ.
As other insightful forum members have pointed out, to a degree one's winch choice is a chevy/ford thing. I am not a Warn fan though they make good products. I don't like the way the sold off the overdrive division, nor how they "re-engineered" the locking hubs. If the tiny allen head bolts were not bad enough, they refused to stamp out bend tab washers for the old hubs that were made by the millions.

A jeep buddy's son was in the US Army in the pointless Iraq war and he said on their hummers they had all the major brands of winches (that were made at the time) The winches were severely used and abused. Milemarker's were superior in longevity. Above all others. Many winches failed within weeks. Especially the big overpriced names.

Being old school (I freely admit it) I am not impressed with synthetic lines. You have to watch them every second they are in use as when they rub on something abrasive, they are toast. More importantly, they would be seriously unsafe. When I see professional recovery workers/companies using synthetic line, I will be a convert. Until then I think its simply marketing.

IF I were to buy a winch today, it would likely be a Milemarker or Engo with cable line and a swivel thimble or eye braided on the end. There is not a chance I would believe a "test" in a magazine that features every month, full page adverts for the company of the models tested.

I don't have a winch now and when I wheel in the tough sections most of my companions have winches. Self recovery vs recovering someone else when I had my PTO winch jeep was about ten to one. Something to think about.
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Old 08-18-2013, 12:52 PM   #82
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Synthetic lines aren't as delicate as you think they are, and the reason you don't see them all that often on tow trucks or industrial equipment is simply the higher cost of synthetic rope.

The maritime industry switched to synthetic lines many years ago, & I noticed the USCG is also running synthetic lines. I suspect the Navy is too but I haven't been on Navy ships like I have USCG ships.

And so long as you stick with a 3/8" synthetic line which typically has an 18-20k lb. capacity, you won't have to watch it. I would not go with a 5/16" simply because it doesn't have the margin the 3/8" does but in the 10+ years I've been using synthetics on the rocks, not once have I ever had to drag it over the rocks or anything sharp. So that you have to "watch them every second" simply isn't true.

Not to mention that for safety reasons, many sanctioned offroad events where a lot of winching is required (like King of the Hammers), they require competitors use synthetic lines. If synthetic wasn't widely accepted as being safer, that wouldn't be the case.

Not to mention in a straight pull, even a 5/16" synthetic rope is substantially stronger than a 5/16" wire rope that has a lower winching load limit than many of our Jeep size winches can exert.

Surprising to many is this:

-Breaking strength of the 5/16" galvanized 7x7 wire rope that comes on a Jeep size winch is 9,200 lbs., less than the winching capacity of many of our winches.

-Breaking strength of the 5/16" synthetic rope that comes on winches made for Jeeps is typically 12,300 lbs. or more. But it is synthetic rope so it is more vulnerable to abrasion damage so not many will recommend this size for offroad winching.

-Breaking strength of the 3/8" synthetic rope that comes on winches made for Jeeps is typically 17,600 lbs. or more. Even with some abrasion, this winch line still have enough of a safety margin that even if it has to be dragged over the rocks, it is not likely to abrade enough to be unsafe. Some 3/8" synthetic ropes have a breaking strength of over 20k lbs.

That said, the need to drag a winch line over a sharp edge is more than rare. I know I have never had the need to do so in since I first started using a winch offroad nearly 15 years ago.

Why did I switch to synthetic? Because within the first five years of winch ownership, my wire rope kinked up enough with hard use that it developed broken strands & needed to be replaced twice. Since switching to synthetic ten years ago, I've yet to need to replace a rope.

Very few would argue that wire rope is safer than synthetic rope, that is for sure. More expensive? Yep... but certainly safer from any reasonable point of view.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:45 AM   #83
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IF I were to buy a winch today, it would likely be a Milemarker or Engo with cable line and a swivel thimble or eye braided on the end. There is not a chance I would believe a "test" in a magazine that features every month, full page adverts for the company of the models tested.

I don't have a winch now and when I wheel in the tough sections most of my companions have winches. Self recovery vs recovering someone else when I had my PTO winch jeep was about ten to one. Something to think about.
Until you've had some extensive personal experience with a synthetic line you won't truly know how it performs. From your post, it's clear you're worrying about the myths associated with synthetic line and not any actual experience.

In my opinion, it's worth going synthetic for the safety factor alone. But that's just me.

As for relying on everyone else's winch, I don't mind using my winch for others at all, but I can say the day definitely goes much more smoothly if everyone has a winch. Particularly if we're wheeling somewhere that a winch is necessary. Most of those kinds of trails would make it extremely difficult for another Jeep to re-position in order to winch another vehicle.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:04 AM   #84
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Any thoughts on why WARN says in their operators manuals to replace synthetic rope every 12 months? They don't appear say that in the manuals for their wire rope winches.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:05 AM   #85
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Any thoughts on why WARN says in their operators manuals to replace synthetic rope every 12 months? They don't appear say that in the manuals for their wire rope winches.
Andy (the Warn rep on the forum) could probably tell you, but if I had to guess I'd say it's the same reason they have to have warnings to tell people not to eat poison, touch hot things, etc. Lawyers...
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:01 AM   #86
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Any thoughts on why WARN says in their operators manuals to replace synthetic rope every 12 months? They don't appear say that in the manuals for their wire rope winches.
As opined above, one word... lawyers.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:17 AM   #87
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Thanks again for all of the help. I ended up actually buying a Warn M8000 last night.
Congratulations! My opinion is that you made a very wise choice.

Another train wreck of a winch thread with a happy ending. From original post to the final result: A new winch for the OP's Jeep.




End of thread? Probably not.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #88
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Jerry, any problems with synthetic line and heat? I know surface temps here can get 150 degrees + during the summer, I imagine they would be even higher in some of the areas you wheel. Will that weaken the line appreciably?
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:47 AM   #89
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I'm not Jerry, but yes heat can be an issue though probably not one you need to worry about. Typically the only time you will see issues with heat is powering out under load for extended periods of time, which is when the drum brake is in use thus creating the heat. For 99% of the people on this forum, that will probably never be an issue.

You'll have to refer to the manufacturer of your specific rope to see what temperatures it can withstand.
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Old 08-19-2013, 10:50 AM   #90
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There's probably several reasons, not the least of which is that American labor is much more costly than Chinese labor.
Its all the advertising and marketing too. Warn has a monstrous budget for advertising. Their winches probably cost no more to produce than the rest of the companies. They dont use any better parts or materials than anyone else.

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