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Old 08-20-2011, 12:46 PM   #31
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Can u tell me y it forks stock but not when I do it?

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Old 08-20-2011, 12:49 PM   #32
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The previous 32RH and the present 42RLE both ran their ATF fluid through factory installed coolers inside the radiator housing.
In my experience that radiator pass through is a transmission fluid warmer, not a cooler. Trans temps followed the radiator temps, around 200-210° under normal conditions...or warmer when hot & mountain driving....until I installed a tranny cooler. Now it stay at least 40° cooler than before, even when pushing the Jeep hard on the mountain roads. While wheeling it stays under 150-160°...

Jerry, if the factory radiator pass through was adequate, you wouldn't be installing a tranny cooler on your 42RLE, and you wouldn't have installed one on your 32RH....and Jeep wouldn't have installed a real tranny cooler on other 42RLE equipped vehicle (JK, KJ & sedans all got tranny coolers). The 42RLE runs hot, and Jeep knows it...and they shoehorned a tranny inadequate for the 4.0L in the TJ and didn't have room to install a real cooler.

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Old 08-20-2011, 12:54 PM   #33
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not forks but works
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:59 PM   #34
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Part of any transmission cooler's job is to also help the transmission warm up more quickly initially but it also of course serves as a cooler. The 42RLE may need additional cooling for the extreme conditions some of us create while wheeling but make no mistake that the transmission would overheat if the TJ's transmission cooler was disconnected so it does help cool it.

And no I'm not saying the 42RLE won't benefit from an additional cooler as my previous 32RH transmission did. That's why I also installed an aux cooler into my '97 TJ for its 32RH. The 32RH, AW4, and 42RLE would all benefit from an aux cooler in addition to the factory cooler.
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:01 PM   #35
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OK thats what i have been reading. But factory just runs the fluid thru the rad w no extra cooler. Can u tell me y it forks stock but not when I do it?
I don't think it works stock. Thats what I'm saying. Jeep left a real cooler out, and that IMHO is a mistake, just like putting the 42RLE into an application it was never designed for - the TJ & the 4.0L.

fwiw, my 42RLE blew at 50k miles...having never pushed more than 31" tires.

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Part of any transmission cooler's job is to also help the transmission warm up more quickly initially but it also of course serves as a cooler. The 42RLE may need additional cooling for the extreme conditions some of us create while wheeling but make no mistake that the transmission would overheat if the TJ's transmission cooler was disconnected so it does help cool it.

And no I'm not saying the 42RLE won't benefit from an additional cooler as my previous 32RH transmission did. That's why I also installed an aux cooler into my '97 TJ for its 32RH. The 32RH, AW4, and 42RLE would all benefit from an aux cooler in addition to the factory cooler.
Jerry, how is the radiator cooling the transmission if the radiator is operating around 210? And wheeling is not that extreme on the tranny at all. It's in 1st gear the whole time, and the load on the engine & tranny is absolutely minimal - gearing is doing the work. Driving on the highway, towing a trailer or driving around town pushes the tranny a lot more than wheeling. Like I said, wheeling my tranny stays under 150...even down to 120, but on the highway i'll see 180 all day long.
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:09 PM   #36
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I don't think it works stock. Thats what I'm saying. Jeep left a real cooler out, and that IMHO is a mistake, just like putting the 42RLE into an application it was never designed for - the TJ & the 4.0L.

fwiw, my 42RLE blew at 50k miles...having never pushed more than 31" tires.



Jerry, how is the radiator cooling the transmission if the radiator is operating at 210? And wheeling is not that extreme on the tranny at all. It's in 1st gear the whole time, and the load on the engine & tranny is absolutely minimal. Driving on the highway, towing a trailer or driving around town push the tranny a lot more than wheeling. Like I said, wheeling my tranny stays under 150...even down to 120, but on the highway i'll see 180 all day long.
By work I in no way mean idealy, but I mean it functions well enough that thousands of people drive tens of thousands of mileswith their trannys running at 230+. I agree with u that that is too hot which is y i am installing a couple coolers once Summit gets off their butts and sends them to me.

I guess in the end I am looking for some reassurance that I am ok to drive my Tj till the coolers get here and the trans begins to run under 180' on the regular
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:17 PM   #37
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Jerry, how is the radiator cooling the transmission if the radiator is operating around 210?
Come on, you should know by now that the radiator and transmission cooler are not combined so it forces the transmission to operate at the same temp at the engine. Not even close. It's not that simple though some seem to think it is. They are in the same housing but they are still separate systems. I ran a temp gauge on my previous TJ before installing my aux cooler and the transmission typically ran at 140-180 unless I was rock crawling or hauling my tent trailer up a grade.

To try to claim that the transmission runs at the same temp as the engine would be totally incorrect. The transmission cooler is completely separate from the radiator, they are just carefully spaced so the transmission can warm up more quickly. The transmission still runs cooler with the transmission cooler than it would without it. To say otherwise would just be incorrect.
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:32 PM   #38
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Jerry, When I install my 2 coolers should I bypass the rad all together or run the fluid thru 3 coolers? I got a 5*11*1.5 stacked plate for the front and another sp w electric fan (not sure the size) to mount up under the jeep.
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Old 08-20-2011, 01:52 PM   #39
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Definitely leave the OE cooler in the circuit. Why are you adding two aux coolers? The one with the fan would be enough by itself.
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:20 PM   #40
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Ok so I read this and I guess I'm still a little confused as to if I should get a cooler or not. And if so which one? I think I remember Unlimited saying that you shouldn't pay more than $50 for one so if that's true then it sounds like I should get one for the peace of mind for only ~50. I don't know what tranny I got but it's an 04 sport auto if that tells you anything. Sorry for the dumb questions I'm still feeling my Jeep out on certain things
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Old 08-20-2011, 02:25 PM   #41
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Making a general statement to not pay more than $50 for a cooler is pretty silly and short-sighted since not every driving/wheeling condition is going to be satisfied with such a cooler.

If you're doing low-speed crawling-type wheeling in hot conditions, a cooler with a fan on it can make the difference in the transmission staying cool vs. not staying cool. Low-speed offroading means not much air is flowing through a passive fanless <$50 cooler which means it may not cool enough.

That's why I'm going for a Derale cooler with a fan on it this time.
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Old 08-20-2011, 03:15 PM   #42
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Well with our Oklahoma heat in excess off 100+ sometimes 105+ I'd like to have one to be on the safe side. I don't wheel it real hard but I'd say some easy to moderate wheeling along with the towing of an ATV during huntin season is what I do
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Old 08-20-2011, 04:48 PM   #43
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I would like to see some pictures of different mounting spots for these coolers. i like the under jeep idea, could you please show pictures when your rig gets out of the shop..
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Old 08-20-2011, 05:42 PM   #44
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Come on, you should know by now that the radiator and transmission cooler are not combined so it forces the transmission to operate at the same temp at the engine. Not even close. It's not that simple though some seem to think it is. They are in the same housing but they are still separate systems. I ran a temp gauge on my previous TJ before installing my aux cooler and the transmission typically ran at 140-180 unless I was rock crawling or hauling my tent trailer up a grade.

To try to claim that the transmission runs at the same temp as the engine would be totally incorrect. The transmission cooler is completely separate from the radiator, they are just carefully spaced so the transmission can warm up more quickly. The transmission still runs cooler with the transmission cooler than it would without it. To say otherwise would just be incorrect.
When you start monitoring the temps of the hot side line on your 42RLE, without an aux cooler installed, let me know what kind of temps you see. I've already stated what I saw.

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Making a general statement to not pay more than $50 for a cooler is pretty silly and short-sighted since not every driving/wheeling condition is going to be satisfied with such a cooler.

If you're doing low-speed crawling-type wheeling in hot conditions, a cooler with a fan on it can make the difference in the transmission staying cool vs. not staying cool. Low-speed offroading means not much air is flowing through a passive fanless <$50 cooler which means it may not cool enough.

That's why I'm going for a Derale cooler with a fan on it this time.
Low speed crawling in hot conditions is not the same as high speed driving on the highway or pulling a grade in hot conditions. The trans will run cooler in low speed crawling because the engine and tranny aren't working hard at all. The cats even run cooler because less exhaust & fuel is passing into them. About the only thing that goes up is IAT (Intake Air Temp) due to the lack of airflow in the engine compartment. Keep in mind when you have an aux cooler installed in front of the radiator, the factory fan is pulling air through it just like it is to the radiator....

You're right - not everyone is driving in the same conditions. Not everyone is rock crawling over big boulders in JV.

Mounting a passive fanless cooler in front of the radiator, which is less than $50, is a perfectly good option for normal people, and is factory installed on lots of vehicles. I'm running one of these worthless passive fanless cooler than cost $50 and it keeps my trans below 160° while low speed crawling & 4-wheeling...and it keeps my trans below 200° when climbing the steepest highway & road grades around Colorado. The 42RLE is happy between 80°-230° tranny oil temp (see section 3.2.2 of 04 FSM: "Transmission Operation and Shift Schedules at Various Oil Temperatures"). If a passive cooler in front keeps you below 200° in all conditions...what else more do you need? This type of tranny cooler has been in use as long as auto trannies have been around and they work just fine for almost everyone. If you really want another added sense of security because you're anal, add a 2nd aux cooler in line, mounted under the tub with an electric fan & temp sensor activation - like Knuckelhead did.
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Old 08-20-2011, 08:36 PM   #45
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I was monitoring the temps on the hot side of my transmission and it would easily reach 210F in traffic or while offroading on the beach. To hot for me. Just having the the cooler transmission means my feet not burning is a good thing

While towing it would get higher then 230 easy.
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by UnlimitedLJ04

Mounting a passive fanless cooler in front of the radiator, which is less than $50, is a perfectly good option for normal people, and is factory installed on lots of vehicles. I'm running one of these worthless passive fanless cooler than cost $50 and it keeps my trans below 160° while low speed crawling & 4-wheeling...and it keeps my trans below 200° when climbing the steepest highway & road grades around Colorado.
Any suggestions as to what brand or where to pick one up? Any links if possible? Thanks in advance Unlimited
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:37 PM   #47
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Though Jerry and LJ seem to be arguing over trivialties. Unless I read wrong they both use the derale with the fan. And they both say it's hood. So that's what I'll prolly get after Some mo researchin
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Old 08-20-2011, 09:46 PM   #48
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Anywhere on the net just put in a search. Amazon would be a great place to start.
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Old 08-20-2011, 10:33 PM   #49
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Any suggestions as to what brand or where to pick one up? Any links if possible? Thanks in advance Unlimited
Summit Racing & JEGS offer lots of options.

I run this one:
Derale transmission fluid cooler,Automatic transmission fluid cooler

It's about the same size as a stock cooler from a ZJ V8 w/ 46RH or the KJ Liberty with 42RLE.

You might be able to get the next size up in front of the radiator from the bottom with patience, without removing the A/C condensor fully...but at some point you'll need to remove the A/C condensor & radiator. Even the little one was a big PITA to install.

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Though Jerry and LJ seem to be arguing over trivialties. Unless I read wrong they both use the derale with the fan. And they both say it's hood. So that's what I'll prolly get after Some mo researchin
IIRC, Jerry doesn't have a cooler right now, he said he's saving up for that fancy cooler + electronic fan thingy. I run a much cheaper $40 dollar cooler in front of the radiator. My contention is you should go with a good, passive, less expensive cooler mounted in front of the radiator and use a temp gauge to monitor temperatures. If the fan+fan clutch pull enough air to keep the engine cool at low speeds, then a tranny cooler in front is going to get similar air flow. If you feel its necessary later, then add a 2nd cooler with a fan automatically activated by trans oil temp, mounted under the tub.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:28 AM   #50
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I already had a similar "much cheaper $40 cooler in front of the radiator" like UnlimitedLJ04 is running (passive with no fan) now but on my second Wrangler, I'm going with one with a fan from Derale this time. My earlier fanless model helped but I still didn't like the higher transmission temps I saw in tougher conditions that it just didn't help that much with.

How anyone can think a passive fanless radiator can be as good as one with a fan on it for all likely conditions is beyond me. It's ok in milder situations but it didn't help enough in tougher conditions like when I would tow my pop-up tent trailer up the mountains.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:39 AM   #51
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I prefer in my head the passive radiator. But with winch lights and other things on my bumper my radiator isn't getting as much air as it should so I don't especially want to cover more of my radiator. Though it is excruciatingly hot here. So an active fan sounds smart. I don't tow anything besides a boat( and that's only 5 miles at 45 max) but I do have improper gearing. Y'all think my 42rle qualifies for a cooler?
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:46 AM   #52
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I already had a similar "much cheaper $40 cooler in front of the radiator" kind of like (passive with no fan) UnlimitedLJ04 is running now but on my second Wrangler, I'm going with one with a fan from Derale this time. My earlier fanless model helped but I still didn't like the higher temps I saw in some conditions when using the fanless cooler in front of the radiator.

How anyone can think a passive fanless radiator can be as good as one with a fan on it is beyond me. It's ok in milder conditions but it didn't help enough in hot conditions like when I would tow my pop-up tent trailer up the mountains.
Mine's got an 18" Ford Explorer 9-blade behind it.

As you said, the fanless model helps - but it wasn't enough for you in hot conditions - like when you tow a camper in the mountains. Which, as you admit, is a more stressful application than rock crawling.

This is where I'm suggesting a secondary cooler mounted under the tub, with an automatically activated fan, comes into play. However, a fanless model may suffice for other folks, and I'd consider it the first step. A secondary cooler with the fan would be the second step, if necessary for you & your application.

Think of it this way - the passive cooler does the everyday duties, but the secondary cooler would only come into play when oil temps go above the threshold you determine - like when you're towing a camper up the mountain on a hot day.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:58 AM   #53
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Mine's got an 18" Ford Explorer 9-blade behind it.
But no one else here does. Perhaps that is how you can claim yours works better than it did on my TJ with the stock fan.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:25 PM   #54
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But no one else here does. Perhaps that is how you can claim yours works better than it did on my TJ with the stock fan.
it still worked well with the stock fan & clutch. but the explorer fan does seem to help radiator cooling overall tho.
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Old 08-21-2011, 01:47 PM   #55
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it still worked well with the stock fan & clutch. but the explorer fan does seem to help radiator cooling overall tho.
It seems to me that if it truly worked that "well" with the stock fan & clutch that you wouldn't have bothered installing a bigger fan. Most people only would only go to the trouble and expense of installing a bigger fan when what is there is not working well enough.

What I don't understand is you don't believe a transmission cooler needs a fan yet you yourself felt the need to install a bigger fan for the Jeep even when you said it worked well with the factory fan.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:18 PM   #56
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It seems to me that if it truly worked that "well" with the stock fan & clutch that you wouldn't have bothered installing a bigger fan. Most people only would only go to the trouble and expense of installing a bigger fan when what is there is not working well enough.

What I don't understand is you don't believe a transmission cooler needs a fan yet you yourself felt the need to install a bigger fan for the Jeep even when you said it worked well with the factory fan.
there you go again twisting things around again, i'm surprised your reading comprehension is so poor.

The explorer fan isn't bigger. It's the same diameter - 18".

It has more blades, and I'm evaluating whether it moves more air or not. So far the difference between the stock 5-blade and this Explorer 9-blade is fairly small, to me at least.

I switched to the explorer fan because the coolant temps were causing overheating after long periods with the A/C on - just like you experienced while driving your 2004 TJ. But guess what - the tranny temps were fine...even with coolant temps around 230° on the scanguage.

Read the thread on JF:
TJ radiator fan upgrade info.......2000-2006 TJ - JeepForum.com

I'll say it again in case that didn't sink in - the fan & fan clutch were changed in attempt to reduce coolant/engine temps while running the A/C, and had nothing to do with the trans temps. In fact, you might want to try the Explorer fan....some folks are reporting noted improvements.
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Old 08-21-2011, 06:23 PM   #57
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Since neither party seems willing to let it go, I will do it for you. Case closed.

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